Honda shows off new hybrids for America as it absorbs $9 billion EV loss

The automaker marked its first annual loss in more than 70 years.

See full article...

 

[dantheclamman]

It is getting harder and harder to find hybrids or electrics that are not SUVs. I'd like a replacement for my Chevy Volt and it doesn't really exist. Prius Prime isn't the same. It's depressing

 

[sporkinum]

That is why I am repairing my PHEV 2014 C-Max. It only has 45k miles on it. Way cheaper than buying a new or used BEV.

 

[randomuser42]

It is getting harder and harder to find hybrids or electrics that are not SUVs. I'd like a replacement for my Chevy Volt and it doesn't really exist. Prius Prime isn't the same. It's depressing

Civic or Corolla hybrid? Or Camry or Accord for full size sedan? Or do you mean PHEV?

 

[noxylophone]

Funny that after all these car companies scale back their EV ambitions we get the worst fuel supply crisis in my lifetime and demand for used EVs skyrockets.

 

[Unclebugs]

Saw this story in Asahi Shimbun yesterday. Honda's current line-up includes quite a few hybrids: Civics, Accords, CR-Vs which I see a lot of around town. The new Civic hybrid is quicker to 60 mph than my 2022 Civic Si! Then there is the new Prelude, a hybrid, which is a "secretary's" car. I'm not sure how that is going to sell. Maybe it is more of an OnlyFans content creator/Tiktok influencer vehicle: pretty and pretty easy to drive.

 

[Tech-Space-Cars]

The whole article could have been summed up and revised down to the following:

After US government policies wrecked the country’s electric vehicle market, automakers have been scrambling to adapt. The combined issues of capricious tariffs, an oil war breaking out in the Middle East, with its inflationary and systemic effects upon the global economy, has inserted a high sense of instability and uncertainly the world over.

 

[Dr Gitlin]

Funny that after all these car companies scale back their EV ambitions we get the worst fuel supply crisis in my lifetime and demand for used EVs skyrockets.

I mean, you do realize both those things are happening for the exact same reason?

 

[Tactical Finesse]

The whole article could have been summed up and revised down to the following:

After US government policies wrecked the country’s electric vehicle market, automakers have been scrambling to adapt. The combined issues of capricious tariffs, an oil war breaking out in the Middle East, with its inflationary and systemic effects upon the global economy, has inserted a high sense of instability and uncertainly the world over.

Yes...but also Honda and Toyota both made Stellantis-level bad decisions regarding planning their line-ups. Both Toyota and Honda bet their farm on hybrid drive trains, and both got caught with their shorts down when EVs took off.

 

[Modus_Derperandi]

But "We" are making a fortune off these crisis.

 

[JasonusMaximus]

I mean, you do realize both those things are happening for the exact same reason?

Pretty sure most of us realize it.

As an aside, we just got rid of our ICE. Picked up a very nice 2020 Kia Niro EV with 30k miles on it. We absolutely love it.

 

[greendave]

I have a soft spot for Honda. My parent's first car when I was born was a '70s Civic. We got almost 300k miles out of a '90s Del Sol (with original clutch!). These were clever, well-designed vehicles with excellent reliability, great fuel economy and a compact footprint that could be maneuvered and parked just about anywhere.

I'm not sure why they decided to cede the EV and PHEV market to others in the US (they did after all do the R&D to make a Fit EV and could easily have followed up, as GM did with their Spark/Bolt) but I guess that's their choice. I'm pretty sure I've bought my last Honda. Good thing the Korean manufacturers seem to be taking up the baton of compact, efficient vehicles. Hopefully they at least will continue to sell here.

 

[Wtcher]

I'm buying an ebike this weekend; heavily informed by Ars, in fact!

I won't be saving money but it'll be nice to do something for the planet.

 

[raschumacher]

It is getting harder and harder to find hybrids or electrics that are not SUVs. I'd like a replacement for my Chevy Volt and it doesn't really exist. Prius Prime isn't the same. It's depressing

Corolla hybrid is nice. I just bought one instead of the current Prius to replace a 2004 Prius. And it fits in my garage. (I was tempted by the Civic SUV hybrid, which also fits in the garage, but they only come tarted up with alloy wheels, leather, and a Moon roof that reduces headroom. Plus the Toyota hybrid system excels at reliability.)

 

[dennis.kext]

Honda's design team has been kicking out some sexy beasts since the 11th gen Civic. While not for me, the Passport, Hr-V and CR-V get honorable mentions. The blacked out vibe makes them look expensive, but in a BMW, not Kia, sort of way.

I vote for the Accord going full ev. The type of car it represents and the market for EV sedans should make this a win. Keep the Civic on ICE/hybrid systems.

Otherwise I'm not a fan of separate nameplates for EV and ICE vehicles. Especially when it's obvious that most non-sport(racing/off-road/utility) road cars should just be EVs already.

 

[raschumacher]

That is why I am repairing my PHEV 2014 C-Max. It only has 45k miles on it. Way cheaper than buying a new or used BEV.

Indeed. One can buy a whole lotta car repair for the price of a new one.

 

[CrazyHarry1]

I mean, you do realize both those things are happening for the exact same reason?

Dr Gitlin,

I enjoy your articles. You're one of the primary reasons I pay for my ARS subscription.

In this instance, not only an interesting article but also a chef's kiss worthy retort in the comments.

I regret having only one upvote to give you.

 

[LordEOD]

So the basic point is that Trump and Republican policy decisions have led to Honda's first operating loss in the company's history, to the tune of over $9 billion dollars.

Further, same said policy decisions are hobbling America's ability to adapt and respond at a time when fuel costs are the highest they've been in almost 20 years.

It almost as if they're purposefully trying to tank America..

 

[Kurazarrh]

Why do they insist on making these cars as ugly as sin?

 

[CrazyHarry1]

Civic or Corolla hybrid? Or Camry or Accord for full size sedan? Or do you mean PHEV?

Another Volt owner here:

The Volt isn't just a hybrid. It isn't even really just a PHEV. They hit such a sweet spot of "enough range to do all my commuting on electric" and "powerful enough drive train to do I-70 or I-80 from SLC to Denver at slightly over the posted limit while still averaging over 40MPG with 4 adults in the car"

I don't especially like the "car". It's a Chevy with the creaks and groans that implies. The drivetrain, however, is a true work of Genius. I don't know what to replace mine with, either. Hopefully it hangs in there for a few more years.

 

[goblinski]

It is getting harder and harder to find hybrids or electrics that are not SUVs...

Per the above definition:

Audi
e-tron GT / RS e-tron GT (EV)

Bentley
Flying Spur (H)
Continental GT (H)

BMW
330e (H)
i4 (EV)
550e (H)
i5 (EV)
750e (H)
i7 (EV)
M5 (H)

Chevrolet
Corvette E-Ray (H)
Silverado EV (EV)

Chrysler
Pacifica Plug-In Hybrid (H)

Dodge
Charger Daytona (EV)

Fiat
500e (EV)

Ford
Maverick Hybrid (H)
F-150 PowerBoost Hybrid (H)
F-150 Lightning (EV)
E-Transit (EV)

Genesis
Electrified G80 (EV)

GMC
Hummer EV Pickup (EV)
Sierra EV (EV)

Honda
Civic Hybrid (H)
Accord Hybrid (H)
Prelude (H)

Hyundai
Elantra Hybrid (H)
Sonata Hybrid (H)
Ioniq 6 (EV)

Kia
Carnival Hybrid (H)
EV4 (EV)

Lexus
ES 300h (H)
LS 500h (H)
LC 500h (H)

Lucid
Air (EV)

Mercedes-Benz
C 300e (H)
CLA-Class EV (EV)
E 350e (H)
EQE Sedan (EV)
S 580e (H)
EQS Sedan (EV)
AMG E 53 (H)
eSprinter (EV)

Nissan
Leaf (EV)

Porsche
911 Carrera GTS (H)
Panamera E-Hybrid (H)
Taycan (EV)
Taycan Cross Turismo / Sport Turismo (EV)

Ram
1500 Ramcharger (H)
1500 REV (EV)

Rivian
R1T (EV)

Rolls-Royce
Spectre (EV)

Tesla
Model 3 (EV)
Model S (EV, discontinued)
Cybertruck (EV)

Toyota
Prius (H)
Prius Prime (H)
Corolla Hybrid (H)
Camry (H)
Crown (H)
Sienna (H)
Tacoma i-FORCE MAX (H)
Tundra i-FORCE MAX (H)

Volkswagen
ID. Buzz (EV)

Volvo
S60 Recharge (H)
S90 Recharge (H)
V60 Recharge (H)
V90 Recharge (H)

/s

Now, if the criteria is "replacement for Volt" - it narrows the list a tiny bit, but the Japanese and the Koreans still cover a lot there.

 

[jwbaker]

How are they planning to get another 10% efficiency on top of the existing hybrid platform?

 

[dollyllama]

Those sharp lines can't be good for efficiency (drag) and noise.

 

[Aurich]

But "We" are making a fortune off these crisis.


View attachment 135117

It's not a requirement outside of the Soap Box forum, but it would be nice to have links for this stuff if you post it. There is so much out there that's fake or disinformation, authenticating what we see is nice.

In this particular case it's 100% real, and from an interview between Trump and Hannity. Link with video:


View: https://bsky.app/profile/factpostnews.bsky.social/post/3mlu7kfkew42z

 

[dennis.kext]

It is getting harder and harder to find hybrids or electrics that are not SUVs. I'd like a replacement for my Chevy Volt and it doesn't really exist. Prius Prime isn't the same. It's depressing

Could you imagine a timeline were Detroit didn't "wuss out"[I'm struggling to find the right word for "there is a big market for sedans, but we don't understand it, we are hostile to it, and we are just gonna lay down"] on sedans.

I just don't get what these market execs are thinking. Maybe I could sell Detroit on a double-cross over, but it's a sedan.

 

[rayleonard]

It is getting harder and harder to find hybrids or electrics that are not SUVs. I'd like a replacement for my Chevy Volt and it doesn't really exist. Prius Prime isn't the same. It's depressing

Im waiting for the first full EV minivan. Midsized SUVs with 2 kids and a dog is very tight.

 

[ktmglen]

My Uber ride the other day had a very nice Honda EV. Can't remember the exact model though. Ironically, it was on a ride home from the Ford dealer on the 2nd try to get the recalls on my Ranger fixed.

 

[Fearknot]

As those commitments are abandoned, there’s a financial price to pay, including more than $9 billion of write-downs for Honda

It is hard to see how this makes sense. How many EVs had they expected to sell? Say they sold 500,000 next year (probably way overestimated). If they reduce the price of each by $4000, they would lose $2 billion instead of $9 billion, and they would well establish themselves in the EV market. I'm not sure whether it is just the Trump anti-EV actions, or whether it is more that it is just easier for Honda (and other car makers) to keep doing what they've always been doing.

 

[ArbitCommentary]

My Uber ride the other day had a very nice Honda EV. Can't remember the exact model though. Ironically, it was on a ride home from the Ford dealer on the 2nd try to get the recalls on my Ranger fixed.

The only Honda EV was the Honda Prologue. But it wasnt an actual Honda. It was a rebadged Chevrolet Blazer EV built by GM at GM's Ramos Arizpe plant, on the same line as the Blazer EV sharing it's platform, 85 kWh battery, and powertrain components. In fact if you peel back the door card and other non customer facing components, the labelling will all be GM.

I say "was" because it was discontinued by Honda this year along with its Acura counterpart, the Acura ZDX which was also built by GM as a rebadged Cadillac Lyriq

Honda did make the Honda e in Europe which was well received for its design but expensive and had rather poor charging and EV powertrain

 

[huskcummerbund]

Hopefully they come up with something more compelling to me. Liftback/fastback sedans (not sure which the title photo shows) and CUVs/SUVs just don't do it for me. Show up with a proper hatchback sedan or truly small pickup and you'll get my attention.

 

[jwbaker]

The only Honda EV was the Honda Prologue. But it wasnt an actual Honda. It was a rebadged Chevrolet Blazer EV built by GM at GM's Ramos Arizpe plant, on the same line as the Blazer EV sharing it's platform, 85 kWh battery, and powertrain components. In fact if you peel back the door card and other non customer facing components, the labelling will all be GM.

I say "was" because it was discontinued by Honda this year along with its Acura counterpart, the Acura ZDX which was also built by GM as a rebadged Cadillac Lyriq

It was still a decent offering because it was a Blazer EV with a Honda information system.

 

[rumplestiltskin]

That "new Accord?" photo (at the top of the article) is really 1970's revisionist; sort of a deTomaso Pantera 4-door sedan...but it's still ugly as sin.

 

[poke 532810]

But "We" are making a fortune off these crisis.


View attachment 135117

$4? Not in my neck of the woods. The gas station near out house was $5.75 yesterday. The cheapest in our area is $5.55. A couple of weeks ago it was $4.95.

We’re looking to buy an EV soon, because gas prices are taking a bigger and bigger bite out of our wallet. There are a few older Leafs (Leaves?) in our area for around $3,500, but with only four bars on the battery health-o-meter. One with eight to ten bars is around $7,000, though we might splurge and get an EV with around 150 miles of range, which should cover almost all of our driving needs.

ETA: I have no interest in buying another hybrid, plugin or not. The sooner we stop burning dino juice, the better.

 

[huskcummerbund]

So the basic point is that Trump and Republican policy decisions have led to Honda's first operating loss in the company's history, to the tune of over $9 billion dollars.

Further, same said policy decisions are hobbling America's ability to adapt and respond at a time when fuel costs are the highest they've been in almost 20 years.

It almost as if they're purposefully trying to tank America..

MAGA should be classified as a domestic terrorist organization, IMO.

 

[sporkinum]

Indeed. One can buy a whole lotta car repair for the price of a new one.

The damage was not that bad, so I am trying to do most of the work myself. I have to replace right front fender and headlight, hood, radiator, front plastic and bumper, and the 2 driver airbags. In the interim, My dad gave me his old 2001 Hyundai XG300.

 

[afidel]

Im waiting for the first full EV minivan. Midsized SUVs with 2 kids and a dog is very tight.

ID.Buzz? It should be plenty big enough for that load.

 

[ktmglen]

The only Honda EV was the Honda Prologue. But it wasnt an actual Honda. It was a rebadged Chevrolet Blazer EV built by GM at GM's Ramos Arizpe plant, on the same line as the Blazer EV sharing it's platform, 85 kWh battery, and powertrain components. In fact if you peel back the door card and other non customer facing components, the labelling will all be GM.

I say "was" because it was discontinued by Honda this year along with its Acura counterpart, the Acura ZDX which was also built by GM as a rebadged Cadillac Lyriq

That looks like it! Thanks for the additional info about it.

 

[Erbium168]

Those sharp lines can't be good for efficiency (drag) and noise.

Aerodynamics doesn't work the way most people think it does.
Mildly amusing fact; in the 1930s there was a fashion for "teardrop" shapes on the assumption that falling water droplets would take up an aerodynamically efficient shape.
In fact that is the shape which more or less maximises aerodynamic resistance because the pressure at the centre tends to flatten it and the Bernoulli effect reduces the pressure at the sides tending to push the drop to a flattened shape with maximum cross section (aerodynamic drag being Cd * effective cross section.)

 

[andygates]

ID.Buzz? It should be plenty big enough for that load.

PV5? If you folks are going to get it. Selling out, too good and cheap.

 

[Erbium168]

The only Honda EV was the Honda Prologue.

The only real Honda EV was the Honda e. We had one as a city car.
I believe they did not sell in the USA because the side mirrors were replaced by cameras, and the NHTSA hadn't caught up with approving that.
We sold it because it was becoming apparent that Honda was giving up on EVs and getting servicing and maintenace was going to be very difficult.

Edit: Dear Dr. Gitlin, you appear to be arguing with me about something I did not write. I never said it was not a sales disaster, in fact we bought one half price.
But what I wrote was correct; it remains the only actual, available to buy, Honda EV.