Hands-on: Gear VR is better than smartphone VR has a right to be

Or: Why the Galaxy Note 4 is the first phone I want to strap to my face.

Read the whole story

 

[nehinks]

...in Escape Velocity, the viewpoint follows closely behind a spaceship...

...did you just bury the lead? Is there a new EV game coming out??

 

[gijames1225]

Is there any plan to allow me to hook this up to a PC and run more hardcore software on it? That would be a pretty convincing phone purchase if it provided a full blown occulus rift with the purchase.

 

[trs8]

I hope someone ports the software on the note4 to other platforms.

I've a note 3 and I have no intentions of upgrading to the 4. But I'd love to try this.

 

[Kyle Orland]

nehinks[/url]":1c31myo8]

...in Escape Velocity, the viewpoint follows closely behind a spaceship...

...did you just bury the lead? Is there a new EV game coming out??

Relatively sure there's no relation to the 1996 Ambrosia Software release, if that's what you're asking.

 

[trs8]

gijames1225[/url]":l8jhfdpk]Is there any plan to allow me to hook this up to a PC and run more hardcore software on it? That would be a pretty convincing phone purchase if it provided a full blown occulus rift with the purchase.

I wouldn't be surprised if the end goal of the OR team is a wireless headset. But I'm sure they'll want to use custom hardware and a proprietary wireless spec to minimize latency as much as possible.

 

[Kyle Orland]

gijames1225[/url]":1cdh8t9j]Is there any plan to allow me to hook this up to a PC and run more hardcore software on it? That would be a pretty convincing phone purchase if it provided a full blown occulus rift with the purchase.

No, none. Not really sure how that would work even...

 

[nehinks]

Kyle Orland[/url]":3tc7jeee]

nehinks[/url]":3tc7jeee]

...in Escape Velocity, the viewpoint follows closely behind a spaceship...

...did you just bury the lead? Is there a new EV game coming out??

Relatively sure there's no relation to the 1996 Ambrosia Software release, if that's what you're asking.

My soul just died a little inside...

That seems kind of odd though, would have thought they'd have a trademark on a ship based video game named Escape Velocity - seems pretty specific/really close.

 

[Kyle Orland]

nehinks[/url]":34b1vou9]

Kyle Orland[/url]":34b1vou9]

nehinks[/url]":34b1vou9]

...in Escape Velocity, the viewpoint follows closely behind a spaceship...

...did you just bury the lead? Is there a new EV game coming out??

Relatively sure there's no relation to the 1996 Ambrosia Software release, if that's what you're asking.

My soul just died a little inside...

That seems kind of odd though, would have thought they'd have a trademark on a ship based video game named Escape Velocity - seems pretty specific/really close.

Well, this one is a third-person shooter from indie developer Stephane Intissar and doesn't seem all that similar aside from the spaceship theme. Perhaps Intissar just didn't know the name was/is taken?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY3t07svFKg

 

[Rainbird]

trs8[/url]":32u6f450]

gijames1225[/url]":32u6f450]Is there any plan to allow me to hook this up to a PC and run more hardcore software on it? That would be a pretty convincing phone purchase if it provided a full blown occulus rift with the purchase.

I wouldn't be surprised if the end goal of the OR team is a wireless headset. But I'm sure they'll want to use custom hardware and a proprietary wireless spec to minimize latency as much as possible.

Something along the lines of what Nintendo has for the Wii U might be a solution, but I'm guessing it's proprietary.

 

[Shuffy]

Put a 3D camera on there, or do some fake 3D by cropping off some of the 2D image appropriately. Then add some augmented reality stuff in there.

That's what I'd like to see.

 

[stiffitydoodah]

I'm kind of surprised they don't use the camera to do a good-enough inference of lateral head movement. I know it's not a trivial problem, but it seems worth trying.

 

['LilRedDog]

I travel, a lot, and I would just like a VR headset that will give me a big screen experience...

Can't they roll that out first without trying to make it game-perfect?

 

[Nehanarac]

Has the VR industry really progressed far enough to where people are seeking "good-enough" solutions? No, thanks. I'll take a Rift, please.

 

[Xavin]

trs8[/url]":30m2fe20]I hope someone ports the software on the note4 to other platforms.

I've a note 3 and I have no intentions of upgrading to the 4. But I'd love to try this.

There are specific modifications to the hardware and drivers to enable the low latency necessary for VR. You wouldn't be able to run it on random hardware.

 

[mdrejhon]

A major problem for immersion (during fast head movements) is also display motion blur. This can be a problem during fast-moving VR. Smartphones do not currently have a low-persistence mode, similiar to Oculus' DK2 at this time. Galaxy OLED smartphones have motion blur during fast motion, see Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur?, and the unavoidable motion blur issue can be witnessed in a motion test such as TestUFO running on a Galaxy. Even fast OLED displays, can have lots of motion blur, due to persistence (sample-and-hold). Where a display has 1ms of GtG response, the same display has 16.7ms of persistence (GtG and persistence are two different things). You have motion clarity issues if either or both GtG or persistence is high.

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2 -- however, current smartphones do not utilize this because low persistence mode is often much dimmer, and can flicker (if run at only 60Hz). Oculus DK2 modifies this OLED to run in a low-persistence mode, to eliminate display-enforced motion blur, and reduce nausea, as well as improve immersiveness. Hopefully future smartphones can have an optional toggleable low-persistence mode to reduce motion blur.

Ars Technica also wrote about the importance of low persistence for VR, in eliminating motion blur. Similar low persistence tech is found in strobe backlight gaming monitors such as LightBoost or ULMB.
(which are found in most new 120Hz+ gaming monitors).

 

[tdlf]

Kyle Orland[/url]":3i8jtjsh]

nehinks[/url]":3i8jtjsh]

Kyle Orland[/url]":3i8jtjsh]

nehinks[/url]":3i8jtjsh]

...in Escape Velocity, the viewpoint follows closely behind a spaceship...

...did you just bury the lead? Is there a new EV game coming out??

Relatively sure there's no relation to the 1996 Ambrosia Software release, if that's what you're asking.

My soul just died a little inside...

That seems kind of odd though, would have thought they'd have a trademark on a ship based video game named Escape Velocity - seems pretty specific/really close.

Well, this one is a third-person shooter from indie developer Stephane Intissar and doesn't seem all that similar aside from the spaceship theme. Perhaps Intissar just didn't know the name was/is taken?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY3t07svFKg

I'm hoping he's put more effort in since that alpha demo. He's using the "Space! for Unity" Unity asset virtually unchanged with a couple ship swaps. Which, by the way, is an awesome asset to start with (I have no relation to the product. I tested it when I was investigating using Unity for space sims.)

 

[Chaster Mief]

I know AAAaaaaAAaaaaaAAAAAaaaa (or whatever) is available for Android. Would that be an ideal game or would you vomit immediately?

 

[pavon]

Here is the talk John Carmack gave that was alluded to in the article.

stiffitydoodah[/url]":2g7dalcq]I'm kind of surprised they don't use the camera to do a good-enough inference of lateral head movement. I know it's not a trivial problem, but it seems worth trying.

In that talk, he mentions that Oculus has looked into tons of camera based scene regitration techniques that people have developed, and none of them come close to providing either the precision or the accuracy needed for VR. The resulting information has too much jitter, and is coarse.

 

[RoninX]

Chaster Mief[/url]":318aqa75]I know AAAaaaaAAaaaaaAAAAAaaaa (or whatever) is available for Android. Would that be an ideal game or would you vomit immediately?

PewDiePie playing AAAAaaaAAAaaaaAAAAaaaAAAAAaaaa!!! using the Oculus Rift.

Looks awesome. (Though vomiting is a possibility.)

Imagine playing this on a Gear VR while flying on an airplane...

 

[stiffitydoodah]

pavon[/url]":1jr7ukol]Here is the talk John Carmack gave that was alluded to in the article.

stiffitydoodah[/url]":1jr7ukol]I'm kind of surprised they don't use the camera to do a good-enough inference of lateral head movement. I know it's not a trivial problem, but it seems worth trying.

In that talk, he mentions that Oculus has looked into tons of camera based scene regitration techniques that people have developed, and none of them come close to providing either the precision or the accuracy needed for VR. The resulting information has too much jitter, and is coarse.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to check it out.

 

[redspear2]

mdrejhon[/url]":8xobs0ah]A major problem for immersion (during fast head movements) is also display motion blur. This can be a problem during fast-moving VR. Smartphones do not currently have a low-persistence mode, similiar to Oculus' DK2 at this time. Galaxy OLED smartphones have motion blur during fast motion, see Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur?, and the unavoidable motion blur issue can be witnessed in a motion test such as TestUFO running on a Galaxy. Even fast OLED displays, can have lots of motion blur, due to persistence (sample-and-hold). Where a display has 1ms of GtG response, the same display has 16.7ms of persistence (GtG and persistence are two different things). You have motion clarity issues if either or both GtG or persistence is high.

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2 -- however, current smartphones do not utilize this because low persistence mode is often much dimmer, and can flicker (if run at only 60Hz). Oculus DK2 modifies this OLED to run in a low-persistence mode, to eliminate display-enforced motion blur, and reduce nausea, as well as improve immersiveness. Hopefully future smartphones can have an optional toggleable low-persistence mode to reduce motion blur.

Ars Technica also wrote about the importance of low persistence for VR, in eliminating motion blur. Similar low persistence tech is found in strobe backlight gaming monitors such as LightBoost or ULMB.
(which are found in most new 120Hz+ gaming monitors).

The Occulus DK2 uses a Note 3 screen. So how does anything here make sense?
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming ... ay-1259889

 

[Mitlov]

For those looking for the best quality VR experience, the Gear VR seems likely to be a mere stopgap on the path to the eventual consumer version of the Oculus Rift. Gear VR will likely be available in a matter of months, and only for a few hundred dollars on top of a cell phone you might want anyway.

What about this would make Gear VR several hundred dollars? Aren't the screen, the motion sensors, an the processor all part of the Note 4 instead of the Gear VR headset itself? I'm probably going to buy a Note 4, and if this costs $99 or less, I'd spring for it as a novelty item. But $300? Nah...

 

[snajk]

Xavin[/url]":2e5q482a]

trs8[/url]":2e5q482a]I hope someone ports the software on the note4 to other platforms.

I've a note 3 and I have no intentions of upgrading to the 4. But I'd love to try this.

There are specific modifications to the hardware and drivers to enable the low latency necessary for VR. You wouldn't be able to run it on random hardware.

Not well, but I tried Google Cardboard with my Note 2 and it looked abd worked better than with my friends LG G3 (though the Note 2 doesn't really fit in it completely). It was really fun for about ten minutes, definitely worth the $5 Cardboard costs.

 

[mangodrink]

I keep wondering when smartphone companies (ok, pretty much just try-anything Samsung) will add video input. I guess I could also hope for a streaming-video protocol that can work with stereoscopic VR coming out of a PC.

 

[paradox00]

redspear2[/url]":xkjrz4in]

mdrejhon[/url]":xkjrz4in]A major problem for immersion (during fast head movements) is also display motion blur. This can be a problem during fast-moving VR. Smartphones do not currently have a low-persistence mode, similiar to Oculus' DK2 at this time. Galaxy OLED smartphones have motion blur during fast motion, see Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur?, and the unavoidable motion blur issue can be witnessed in a motion test such as TestUFO running on a Galaxy. Even fast OLED displays, can have lots of motion blur, due to persistence (sample-and-hold). Where a display has 1ms of GtG response, the same display has 16.7ms of persistence (GtG and persistence are two different things). You have motion clarity issues if either or both GtG or persistence is high.

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2 -- however, current smartphones do not utilize this because low persistence mode is often much dimmer, and can flicker (if run at only 60Hz). Oculus DK2 modifies this OLED to run in a low-persistence mode, to eliminate display-enforced motion blur, and reduce nausea, as well as improve immersiveness. Hopefully future smartphones can have an optional toggleable low-persistence mode to reduce motion blur.

Ars Technica also wrote about the importance of low persistence for VR, in eliminating motion blur. Similar low persistence tech is found in strobe backlight gaming monitors such as LightBoost or ULMB.
(which are found in most new 120Hz+ gaming monitors).

The Occulus DK2 uses a Note 3 screen. So how does anything here make sense?
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming ... ay-1259889

I take it that you didn't read this part:

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2

Your own link even calls the display "overclocked."

 

[redspear2]

paradox00[/url]":2x2c7s8c]

redspear2[/url]":2x2c7s8c]

mdrejhon[/url]":2x2c7s8c]A major problem for immersion (during fast head movements) is also display motion blur. This can be a problem during fast-moving VR. Smartphones do not currently have a low-persistence mode, similiar to Oculus' DK2 at this time. Galaxy OLED smartphones have motion blur during fast motion, see Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur?, and the unavoidable motion blur issue can be witnessed in a motion test such as TestUFO running on a Galaxy. Even fast OLED displays, can have lots of motion blur, due to persistence (sample-and-hold). Where a display has 1ms of GtG response, the same display has 16.7ms of persistence (GtG and persistence are two different things). You have motion clarity issues if either or both GtG or persistence is high.

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2 -- however, current smartphones do not utilize this because low persistence mode is often much dimmer, and can flicker (if run at only 60Hz). Oculus DK2 modifies this OLED to run in a low-persistence mode, to eliminate display-enforced motion blur, and reduce nausea, as well as improve immersiveness. Hopefully future smartphones can have an optional toggleable low-persistence mode to reduce motion blur.

Ars Technica also wrote about the importance of low persistence for VR, in eliminating motion blur. Similar low persistence tech is found in strobe backlight gaming monitors such as LightBoost or ULMB.
(which are found in most new 120Hz+ gaming monitors).

The Occulus DK2 uses a Note 3 screen. So how does anything here make sense?
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming ... ay-1259889

I take it that you didn't read this part:

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2

Your own link even calls the display "overclocked."

So basically what you are saying that the Galaxy OLEDs can't do VR without Motion Blur unless they can? We are talking about a new galaxy device and obviously designed for use with VR so its entirely possibly they tweaked the new version for VR.
In other words there was no point to your post.

 

[therealeffingaeiouy]

Stealing phones will be easy

 

[omniron]

I've never really liked any of Samsung's products, but I kind of want one of these.

I guess their 5x higher staffing has to get something right every now and again...

 

[onkeljonas]

redspear2[/url]":knencyyo]

paradox00[/url]":knencyyo]

redspear2[/url]":knencyyo]

mdrejhon[/url]":knencyyo]A major problem for immersion (during fast head movements) is also display motion blur. This can be a problem during fast-moving VR. Smartphones do not currently have a low-persistence mode, similiar to Oculus' DK2 at this time. Galaxy OLED smartphones have motion blur during fast motion, see Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur?, and the unavoidable motion blur issue can be witnessed in a motion test such as TestUFO running on a Galaxy. Even fast OLED displays, can have lots of motion blur, due to persistence (sample-and-hold). Where a display has 1ms of GtG response, the same display has 16.7ms of persistence (GtG and persistence are two different things). You have motion clarity issues if either or both GtG or persistence is high.

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2 -- however, current smartphones do not utilize this because low persistence mode is often much dimmer, and can flicker (if run at only 60Hz). Oculus DK2 modifies this OLED to run in a low-persistence mode, to eliminate display-enforced motion blur, and reduce nausea, as well as improve immersiveness. Hopefully future smartphones can have an optional toggleable low-persistence mode to reduce motion blur.

Ars Technica also wrote about the importance of low persistence for VR, in eliminating motion blur. Similar low persistence tech is found in strobe backlight gaming monitors such as LightBoost or ULMB.
(which are found in most new 120Hz+ gaming monitors).

The Occulus DK2 uses a Note 3 screen. So how does anything here make sense?
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming ... ay-1259889

I take it that you didn't read this part:

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2

Your own link even calls the display "overclocked."

So basically what you are saying that the Galaxy OLEDs can't do VR without Motion Blur unless they can? We are talking about a new galaxy device and obviously designed for use with VR so its entirely possibly they tweaked the new version for VR.
In other words there was no point to your post.

You need to mess with the hardware to make the display work optimally. For the Note 4, Samsung did the messing around already. For other phones you'd have to do hardware modifications, so while it is possible it is something you'd do in a lab.

 

[westworldviewer]

I look at that picture, and think to myself: There are people out there who want to strap their phones to their faces, really? REALLY??

 

[Ash_ZA]

It's a bit ironic that it took them what appears to be a very short period of time to come up with a viable, albeit not as good, alternative to Oculus Rift by strapping a cell phone to your head. :/

 

[ShonFerg]

pavon[/url]":2oqirobe]Here is the talk John Carmack gave that was alluded to in the article.

stiffitydoodah[/url]":2oqirobe]I'm kind of surprised they don't use the camera to do a good-enough inference of lateral head movement. I know it's not a trivial problem, but it seems worth trying.

In that talk, he mentions that Oculus has looked into tons of camera based scene regitration techniques that people have developed, and none of them come close to providing either the precision or the accuracy needed for VR. The resulting information has too much jitter, and is coarse.

I've wondered as well why gyroscopes and accelerometers in the phone and the head-mounted unit can't be used to get at least some sort of response to translational movement. My guess was sensor drift, but that's something that the camera might be able to address.

I was thinking using the camera was just too costly from a processing/battery life perspective, but from you're post, I guess they're saying that zero registration of this movement is actually less nausea inducing than an imperfect response?

 

[Magic Man]

Why not (optionally) use it as a second screen? Do the heavy processing on a PC rather than the phone - there are a number of apps to use an Android device as a second screen over WiFi, sure there is one I've seen that connects via USB too. Lag would be too great I assume...?

Couldn't you use the camera in conjunction with static/active external reflective targets - similar to how TrackIR works...?

Looks good though...

 

[StitchesX]

Quick question regarding this new wave of HMDs. One of the issues I commonly see with their design is that they tend to rely only on a head strap to secure the unit to the head. Invariably, even when tightly secured, this leaves the user with a "nod syndrome" because most of the weight is in front of the eyes.

Have any of the new HMDs incorporated a counterbalance, at least in the back of the unit?
Of course, it would make the system heavier but it would also be more comfortable to wear.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

Ash_ZA[/url]":cl09xqr8]It's a bit ironic that it took them what appears to be a very short period of time to come up with a viable, albeit not as good, alternative to Oculus Rift by strapping a cell phone to your head. :/

No odder than strapping speakers to one's ears.

 

[Kamus]

mdrejhon[/url]":vkm2uc84]A major problem for immersion (during fast head movements) is also display motion blur. This can be a problem during fast-moving VR. Smartphones do not currently have a low-persistence mode, similiar to Oculus' DK2 at this time. Galaxy OLED smartphones have motion blur during fast motion, see Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur?, and the unavoidable motion blur issue can be witnessed in a motion test such as TestUFO running on a Galaxy. Even fast OLED displays, can have lots of motion blur, due to persistence (sample-and-hold). Where a display has 1ms of GtG response, the same display has 16.7ms of persistence (GtG and persistence are two different things). You have motion clarity issues if either or both GtG or persistence is high.

However, the same OLED displays can easily be driven in a low-persistence mode like Oculus DK2 -- however, current smartphones do not utilize this because low persistence mode is often much dimmer, and can flicker (if run at only 60Hz). Oculus DK2 modifies this OLED to run in a low-persistence mode, to eliminate display-enforced motion blur, and reduce nausea, as well as improve immersiveness. Hopefully future smartphones can have an optional toggleable low-persistence mode to reduce motion blur.

Ars Technica also wrote about the importance of low persistence for VR, in eliminating motion blur. Similar low persistence tech is found in strobe backlight gaming monitors such as LightBoost or ULMB.
(which are found in most new 120Hz+ gaming monitors).

The gearVR has low persistence at 60hz, flicker may be an issue for some content and some people, but there is no motion blur

 

[Mitlov]

omniron[/url]":1jxfz0nt]I've never really liked any of Samsung's products, but I kind of want one of these.

I guess their 5x higher staffing has to get something right every now and again...

As mentioned in the other thread, "5x higher staffing" is largely because (1) they do a lot of manufacturing and components in-house with workers on Samsung's own payroll, instead of contracting that out to Foxconn and pals like most do; and (2) they have a broader product portfolio than most other tech companies. It's not like they've got 5x as many people working on smartphone software as a direct competitor does.

 

[mdrejhon]

redspear2[/url]":4h6vo638]The Occulus DK2 uses a Note 3 screen. So how does anything here make sense?
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming ... ay-1259889

It is the same screen, just run with electronics modification to drive an existing OLED screen in low persistence mode.

My point is that there is no way in nearly all smartphones to electronically switch to a low persistence mode yet, even though it can easily be engineered in, without modifying the screen surface - just the electronics driving the screen. It requires more complexity, and a loss of maximum brightness, to drive the same screen in a blurfree low persistence mode.

I would love to see Android phones have a low persistence mode that can be toggled on/off.

 

[natiahs]

Chaster Mief[/url]":eja8b13v]I know AAAaaaaAAaaaaaAAAAAaaaa (or whatever) is available for Android. Would that be an ideal game or would you vomit immediately?

AAAaaaaAAaaaaaAAAAAaaaa! for the Awesome is available with Rift DK2 support on PC and it is a lot of fun. Definitely one of the best actual games on the platform.