Google wants Android Automotive to control more of your car
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Not only do I still have "Does not require Android Auto" on my non-negotiable list for my next vehicle, it has now been underlined twice.
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So, seems that Apple wanted to move this way as well with new features in CarPlay, and the auto industry was not receptive. Wonder how they’ll feel about Google
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I am reminded of xkcd/2030: Voting Software.
There is a little corner of software engineering out there that deals with safety-of-life systems. Stuff that needs to be ironclad robust and dependable, not new and shiny. Pobody's nerfect, of course, but as a whole they are pretty damn good at their jobs. Vibe-coding move-fast-and-break-things SV bros are not that.
There is a little corner of software engineering out there that deals with safety-of-life systems. Stuff that needs to be ironclad robust and dependable, not new and shiny. Pobody's nerfect, of course, but as a whole they are pretty damn good at their jobs. Vibe-coding move-fast-and-break-things SV bros are not that.
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Instructables can be Confusable
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Pedantic/
Android Auto is the phone OS projection.
Android Automotive is the in-car OS being discussed here. It does not require an Android phone to operate as it Google making a native OS for OEMs to use for their infotainment stack. It will even still support CarPlay as it is device agnostic and simply there to run the screen(s) in the car.
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So when Google's AAOS code breaks and turns the A/C off in a car during summer, potentially harming the occupants, who's responsible? Because Google sure as heck won't be - they'll point the fingers at the car manufacturer or the occupants.
I'm not interested in allowing any non car manufacturer anywhere near the actual important electronic bits of my car. Especially not any company that thinks AI and vibe coding are good things. Hard pass.
I'm not interested in allowing any non car manufacturer anywhere near the actual important electronic bits of my car. Especially not any company that thinks AI and vibe coding are good things. Hard pass.
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So is the hardware architecture going to include a separate computer for the "car parts of the car" that the android infotainment system only gets a simple interface with, or are we hoping that the android OS can responsibly share the computer its running on?
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I have the feeling car manufactures will lock Google out the same way. Maybe tech companies will buy their scraps in a few years and cars just become another set of devices in a tech companies hardware division.
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Hassn't Volvo's infotainment been getting lit up for instability issues ever since they decided to hitch their wagon to Google?
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I'm not worried about AAOS. I'm worried about what manufacturers will do with AAOS. I wouldn't put it past them to want to charge a subscription for air conditioning.
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On the one hand, automotive manufacturers seem to need the help.
On the other, not even rattlesnakes get quite the same "Nope. Nopenopenope." reaction I just had. Skunks and buzzards are closer.
Granted that I'm neither an automotive not software engineer, but IMO a car should have three layers with independent computing:
I'd trust Google only with infotainment.
On the other, not even rattlesnakes get quite the same "Nope. Nopenopenope." reaction I just had. Skunks and buzzards are closer.
Granted that I'm neither an automotive not software engineer, but IMO a car should have three layers with independent computing:
- A read-only "driving' layer, which requires a few hoops to modify. Accelerator, brakes, ADAS, etc.
- A "non-driving" layer that can read the "driving" layer, and control things like the AC, blinkers, windshield wipers, etc.
- An infotainment layer for...infotainment, which can be read-write with the driving later, but not a requirement of it.
I'd trust Google only with infotainment.
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Think of all the helpful suggestions it can make. "I see you peeking at fast food restaurants. There's a sponsored discount ahead for your favorite chilli cheese burger. Take the second left turn." ... "You missed that one, but I'll adjust your navigation route to pass by a 4-star rated Ramen restaurant."
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There are people with issues that raise a lot of noise, and there are the rest of us who appreciate the utility of Android Automotive and aren't having problems with it. 2022 Volvo C40 owner here-- looking forward to the new UX dropping imminently.
We'll see if I become one of the noisy ones after that.
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My list is much the same in spirt. But it mostly has "No fucking infotainment system" at the top.
I want knobs, buttons, sliders and all the other physical controls I've had for 50+ years. I despise glass cockpits.
Yes, Old Man Yelling At Clouds. But as long as the car I have NOW keeps running, I'll keep it. I'd even put money into restoring it, just for that old-time new car smell.
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This is a VERY good point, safety critical systems include HVAC since even a brief failure of such systems can result in a cabin interior that is no longer hospitable to life. Such a failure could kill a small child or pet.
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Sounds to me like Google wants to go way beyond infotainment and into controlling the whole vehicle.
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I'm surprised not to see a mention of Apple's desired deeper integration of Carplay as well, which was announced 5 years ago at this point. They want it to be able to take over the whole dash display in addition to the infotainment stack.
But this is way, way worse than that. AFAIK the Apple solution still runs off the phone hardware, and the car still does its own thing in the background. Giving Google, or any tech company, complete domain over your software? Insane to me. If my job was to cut costs then I guess I can see the appeal. Think of all the layoffs you could announce to slightly increase the stock price! But as a person without a vested interest in that, this is so short-sighted.
But this is way, way worse than that. AFAIK the Apple solution still runs off the phone hardware, and the car still does its own thing in the background. Giving Google, or any tech company, complete domain over your software? Insane to me. If my job was to cut costs then I guess I can see the appeal. Think of all the layoffs you could announce to slightly increase the stock price! But as a person without a vested interest in that, this is so short-sighted.
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I have (and mostly like) AAOS in my car, but there is no way I’m buying a car that uses it to run safety critical systems.
When it occasionally lags or crashes right now, I just get a loading spinner on my maps or have to wait for it to reboot before I can put Spotify on. Pretty much worst case is my backup camera doesn’t work, I guess?
I don’t even want it in the chain to turn cruise control on/off let alone running the thing. It is a very good thing that that is its own, thoroughly tested component.
When it occasionally lags or crashes right now, I just get a loading spinner on my maps or have to wait for it to reboot before I can put Spotify on. Pretty much worst case is my backup camera doesn’t work, I guess?
I don’t even want it in the chain to turn cruise control on/off let alone running the thing. It is a very good thing that that is its own, thoroughly tested component.
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I wish I had kept my old 81 GMC Sierra 3/4 ton and just maintained the shit out of it.
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Probably best today is get a 2006-2007 2500/3500 diesel, the onboard radio if equipped would be 3G and so no longer work and it's pre DPF/DEF so super reliable. Unfortunately that's pretty well known and so an SLT with ~100k miles goes for ~$35k and going higher in mileage doesn't save you a ton.
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My concern is that Google's more likely to change the UI repeatedly over time.
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Yes, Apple’s next-generation CarPlay is all driven by the connected phone, with some theming that can get pushed out to digital instrument clusters and displays (so that those safety-critical elements are still rendered by the car rather than your phone). It also allows you to control various HVAC and other elements while remaining in the CarPlay UI.
Google’s more technical blog post makes it clear that this is a drastic expansion of the scope of Android Automotive, yes. They want to handle updates and functionality across a much wider range of your car than just the infotainment, providing the underlying frameworks for anybody who wants to make a Software-Defined Vehicle.
https://android-developers.googlebl...omotive-OS-for-Software-defined-Vehicles.html
The most charitable spin I can put on it is that OEMs like GM and VW are famously not great at writing software, and so the industry’s current shift to this new SDV paradigm that puts a lot more of the interconnections in software could be very risky for them to implement. Although it’s not like going with Google and their famously long-lived commitments to software support is that much better of an option…
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Yeah, auto OEMs are permanently behind the curve on technology. I think it's combination of long development cycles, and talent pools. I'm not saying there aren't talented software engineers at automakers, but I have a feeling the most in-demand folks are at the big tech companies, because I bet they pay much better. Tesla and Rivian I believe pay better than an average automaker.
I was going to bring up the Google Graveyard as well, but they've been in the automotive space for awhile. And there's supposedly tons of juicy data they would love to get their hands on, probably to advertise you stupid shit in your car because that's all they know how to do.
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My car already has the new UI, and for what it's worth, I don't like it.
The map view is smaller now, because space is taken up by icons that I don't need to see all the time. I seem to remember that I could adjust the temperature directly from the main screen, as long as driver and passenger side temperatures were synced; that doesn't work anymore, you always need an extra tap to bring up a pop-up.
Generally there are more "shortcuts" that aren't really shortcuts and that I don't need, taking up space that's now lost.
The screen with apps neatly divided in categories is gone. The screen with the summary of the most recent app from each category is also gone.
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Should I underline it more? I want Google's future abandonware nowhere near my car, regardless of the branding.
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Part of the issue is how bad a job most automobile manufacturers are at implementing and maintaining these systems.
To those legitimately concerned about data collection: Google's business model doesn't involve sharing your data with third parties and we have already seen some manufacturers (ex: GM) actually selling the data to third party data brokers, so on balance you are marginally better off with Google than with any Western automobile manufacturer, and a whole lot better off with Google than a Chinese manufacturer.
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No thanks. I don’t want a rolling computer, just a car, with normal interiors, is that too much to ask?
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So my impression of Android Automotive is that it is Android first and foremost. My new car came with Android Automotive. It was 8 months behind security updates with Android security updates and the manufacturer wasn't providing OS updates. That is a bit worse than the situation on cell phones. So I removed the fuse that powered the cell phone modem so I can relax and just let it be an infotainment system.
I wish Android Auto had an airplane mode option so I could have just software disabled the data connection.
I wish Android Auto had an airplane mode option so I could have just software disabled the data connection.
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A long time ago and my memory may be faulty but aren't you supposed not to use AC in actual Death Valley?
Children and pets should never be left unattended in cars in hot or cold weather regardless of whether AC is available. And if the AC fails, there's windows.
The safety critical systems on a car are windscreen, steering and brakes. Wheels are assumed since steering and brakes don't work ithout them. You must have forward vision, you must be able to stop without steering into a ditch or a pole. Obviously a car without an engine is not much use, but while it is stationary it is relatively safe,
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Instructables can be Confusable
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Cut the hostility, I was not attacking you. I actually agree and dislike cars turning into phones.
My reply was to clarify which software was being discussed as they have similar names.
Also, if you're going to be that hostile about this, then don't buy a new car. Everyone is using this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Automotive?wprov=sfti1
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No hostility. Just clarity. Dependence on Google for a car's functionality is deeply unattractive to me, whether that feature is accessed through a phone app or otherwise.
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One of the best things about AA is that deleting the vehicle's cellular connection has no impact on functionality. AAOS does not have this benefit, so I don't want it. AA or just a basic DIN head unit is just fine by me.
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Not only was it simpler, it was easier to work on, did truck things better, and looked significantly better than any full size truck currently rolling off the line.
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