Google I/O 2021 preview: Google resurrects Wear OS and Android tablets?

The Google I/O schedule promises to resurrect some long-dead form factors.

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[altsuperego]

I can't wait until 2025 when Google rebrands Wear as YouTube Watch.

...and YTW will have half the functionality. But hey you just want to be told what content you like.

On a more serious note I hope they commit to ChromeOS tablets. I want a true surface competitor. People complain about android apps on a tablet but try FINDING an app in the Microsoft store or using an iPad as a desktop.

 

[altsuperego]

I think Android tablets are more dormant than dead—like Google Plus or Allo were for a while. It still got updates, still had millions of users, but it wasn’t trying to compete for #1. You can’t be an underdog and move slowly.

Android is the world’s most popular smartphone OS. Apple flipped the script with tablets.

Wow. I had no idea Amazon's market share was so small and Samsung's was relatively large.

 

[fellow_traveler]

My second big problem is with the notification system, which is probably the best among smartwatch platforms, except the now 6 years old dead Pebble does it better with Notification history on the watch. I really hate that either I get ALL notifications on ALL devices, or I get none. I want the watch to discretely show me my incoming notifications without my phone making a single beep. And if I swipe it away on the watch to be able to review what I missed on either devices. Notification seems to be an afterthought as everyone focuses strictly on fitness features, but there are the fitness trackers for that for crying out loud!
Third: customisation. It your device has buttons you can set it as a shortcut to an app. And that's it. I want shortcuts to DnD mode and toggle GPS. Sorry, can't do. I want to have a different buzzer strength, sorry, only one setting: on or off. Patterns for different types of notifications? Nope. It's such a simple and easy thing to do, Pebble did it in 2012, but in 7 years Wear OS couldn't (be bothered to).

Tizen does much of that and on a per device level. I have 3 Actives connected to my phone and can set notifications for each individually. On the watches themselves, I can set vibration intensity and length and different patterns for ringtones and notifications. There's some button customization, too, but I haven't explored that.

Shame to think that Samsung might go back to Wear.

 

[fellow_traveler]

And kills it again 2 years llater.
What manufacturer in their right mind, would rely on google to do a tablet/phone OS anymore?
Googles adhd focus needs some correcting.

Google loves their ADHD because it begins with AD.

Astral diamonds?

 

[Static and Noise]

I think Android tablets are more dormant than dead—like Google Plus or Allo were for a while. It still got updates, still had millions of users, but it wasn’t trying to compete for #1. You can’t be an underdog and move slowly.

Android is the world’s most popular smartphone OS. Apple flipped the script with tablets.

Wow. I had no idea Amazon's market share was so small and Samsung's was relatively large.

That table, is it only "pure" tablets or 2 in 1s too? Probably not 2 in 1s, since MS isn't there at all. And does it count the iPad Pro as a tablet or a 2 in 1?

The difference between tablet and laptop is kinda blurry nowadays, and everybody is trying to make it blurrier still.

 

[Zaitu]

Google has found something for the new interns to do. Don't worry the projects will be abandoned when the interns move on.

 

[panton41]

And kills it again 2 years llater.
What manufacturer in their right mind, would rely on google to do a tablet/phone OS anymore?
Googles adhd focus needs some correcting.

Google loves their ADHD because it begins with AD.

Astral diamonds?

I see you play Neverwinter as well...

I got my ex wife hooked on it and she's spent more time playing just that game than I have on every game in my Steam and Origin accounts combined.

 

[obarthelemy]

If they want Android tablets to succeed they've got to do something about Amazon Fire.

That is, Amazon Fire tablets ARE successful and that's the main reason tablet vendors have exited Android; they could fight hard to make a $150 or $200 tablet, but it won't be better than what Amazon sells for much less.

Go into a trailer in rural America and you may well find the resident has a fire tablet as their main internet device, has never heard of "Android", doesn't seem aware that the tablet comes from Amazon. It's amazing.

Once you get into the iPad price range, Android is also locked out. You can buy an iPad and get software updates and something that's superior in many ways (gets my GPS position seemingly instantly in a place where Garmin devices struggle to find a signal at all, doesn't think I am in Norwich, NY 60 miles away like every other IP-based location system.)

Already done: Lenovo Tab M10 FHD Plus. And the ones around me aren't used in trailers but by people who understand what they're buying, the ones who don't buy Apple.

As for ipads being worth it... Just got a call this morning from an uncle looking for a tab for his girlfriend. iPad is 390€, Galaxy Tab A7 2020 is 250€. I'm not sure what the ipad can do the A7 can't, and the A7 can use a real browser.

 

[obarthelemy]

I think Android tablets are more dormant than dead—like Google Plus or Allo were for a while. It still got updates, still had millions of users, but it wasn’t trying to compete for #1. You can’t be an underdog and move slowly.

Android is the world’s most popular smartphone OS. Apple flipped the script with tablets.

Wow. I had no idea Amazon's market share was so small and Samsung's was relatively large.

I'm not sure what that stats is. Installed park of people that browse the web and are detected by their webtracker ?

 

[alexnode]

I understand Google's start-up mentality but they can't focus on delivering good products. After a few hiccups they abandon projects and in general there is a lack of trust. I won't get something edgy from google, I loved the idea of the modular phone for example and I would have been an ardent supporter . But it disappeared probably in some weird creative meetings.
It should have been number one investment priority to eliminate e-waste and tailor phones to what people actually do.

 

[andygates]

I feel that Wear OS getting some attention is a positive sign that Google is finally going to fix the chip situation. Perhaps while rolling their own for a phone they have simultaneously rolled one for wear or will soon do so. Or maybe they will do some negotiation with Samsung to provide some silicon for everyone else. However they do it, without a chip that is competitive with Apple's offerings, Wear OS will always be humdrum.

I too tend toward Charlie Brown optimism that this time Lucy will leave the ball in play. I miss talking to my wrist, it’s a great way to interact with the Assistant.

But I haven’t killed the Garmin that replaced my last Wear device yet. I’ll give them an iteration to get it right.

 

[Cathbadhian]

The resurrection of Wear will presumably impact on whatever Fitbit eventually releases this year. I keep hoping this doesn't turn into another Nest fiasco.

 

[Deleted member 250988]

I don't understand the notion that Android tablets are dead.

I think Android tablets are more dormant than dead—like Google Plus or Allo were for a while. It still got updates, still had millions of users, but it wasn’t trying to compete for #1. You can’t be an underdog and move slowly.

Android is the world’s most popular smartphone OS. Apple flipped the script with tablets.

Android tablets are great utility devices. You see them in Mercedes Benz rear seat entertainment, development and testing environments, etc. But unless you know your niche use already, an iPad is generally the more reliable buy.

I only browse the web, watch (ripped) movies from my collection when on vacation and watch Netflix on my tablet, I would hardly call browsing and vdeo watching a niche for tablets.

For the size I want I can buy a new Apple tablet starting at EUR 388, or - what I did - a EUR 249
android tablet, that works just as well and takes a cheap and exchangable 1TB SDcard to bring my own movies.

The Apple 'tax' as some call it is just not worth it if you don't use their services/eco system.

iMessage is moot in my country, even all iPhone users I know use WhatsApp instead. iCloud? All my friends use Google drive to share files anyway, since most people here have Android devices and it's cross platform.

Also note that in EMEA area Apple is second in tablet sales after Samsung en have <25% of the new tablet market in 2020!

I was surprised at the number of iPhones I saw in the US, I heard many Americans are deep in CC debts and didnt expect so many top range iPhones. But I guess the iPhones is why they are in debt. /s

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Google has found something for the new interns to do. Don't worry the projects will be abandoned when the interns move on.

… or when the analysts find out the project is not considerably helping ads sales.

Google does not care about devices or apps. They don’t care about your user experience.
They only care about selling ads and gather data to do it more efficiently.
That’s the purpose of Google devices and apps.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I understand Google's start-up mentality but they can't focus on delivering good products.

Google’s startup mentality is a myth.
No actual startup is sitting on a huge pile of cash, randomly trying any possible way to increase ads sales.

 

[sonydog123]

Where are the new Nest products? Their entire Nest lineup is aging badly (besides the 2020 Thermostat). They've even stopped selling Nest IQ cameras because of how archaic they are. The Nest Outdoor cam is just as old if not older. Get it together, Google!

 

[PhaseShifter]

To be honest I am getting a bit tired with google revamping it's design every so and then. Why not stick to something for a while?

I ask myself that about every app. Sometimes it feels like the companies have developers they have to keep busy, or someone with to much time on their hands. Fully functioning apps with a clear and funcional UI get redesigned and drops features and then slowly adds them back, and when the new app can do almost the same things as the old app it's time for another redesign from the ground up, and even more features get dropped...

At least for Android, Google usually able to bring all and add new features to the new design.

It could be worse, like Microsoft with windows 10. The metro settings app keeps getting revamped, the classic cpanel keeps getting gutted. But the settings app still doesn't have all features.

It's only been 6 years. Clearly, migrating the Control Panel to the Settings app is a major, major undertaking.

I actually think they've been trying to obsolete control panel since Win 8 or so.

Edit: Yup, a quick search shows me a... urp... terrible settings menu in Win 8.

Do you really expect me to believe the settings menu was bad in the OS release where Microsoft said "Hey, wouldn't it be a great idea to design a user interface for people with touchscreen tablets and then force it on keyboard & mouse users?"

 

[jihadjoe]

Yeah no.

I bought into Android Wear during 1st gen with the Moto 360. Early days and a lot was wanting (particularly the watch SoC and battery life) but that was understandable and the future looked bright.

Then Google left the whole thing to rot.

I don't trust them to keep this V2 run going at all.

 

[addict78]

Wear OS has long felt like a dead platform. Google has definitely neglected its smartwatch OS. The last major update was over two years ago. One of its best features—Google Fit weight-training tracking—was ripped out of the software in 2020. Google Assistant voice activation was broken for months, and new Google apps like YouTube Music and Google Chat do not offer apps for the platform.

Irony, thy name is Google.

They kill popular platforms and resurrect platforms that have been left in the dust for ages.

Call me picky, but some fucking consistency would be nice. Then again, if this is their idea of consistency, it would add some predictability to their offerings.

Kinda torn over it, though, because you'd THINK they'd stick with keeping the popular stuff alive and smother the stuff that has languished for years.

I think there are a couple of things at play here, first despite Google's size it still has resource constraints and working on Phones, Tablets, Wearables, TVs, Assistants, Routers, Speakers etc. was stretching teams too thin. They cut projects based on where they felt they had the biggest market opportunities to win new business. The dynamic of the market has changed wearables and tablets are now becoming or have become main stream and the fact that Google does not have a play in this space is probably starting to cause friction for its users and driving them to alternative platforms which hurts Googles bottom line.

 

[chifwafwani]

I'd buy an Android tablet again. All I use them for is browsing, Netflix, and referencing textbooks that I've digitized.

I've been using one Android tablet or another since my HP Touchpad gave up the ghost. Mostly Samsung now. They work well for me.

I get that I'm the minority there, and I really wish Google could stop with the ADHD, but it really works well for my use cases (layer between the aging laptop that doesn't handle transitioning to battery well and the Android smartphone that also works for me). Especially since I finally started getting security updates on a more frequent basis). In the past, transitioning to Cyanogenmod or Lineage has worked for me when the tablet is no longer supported.

Honestly, I would love it if Google put another two years of work into Android tabletyness that would let me continue to use it for another three, four years at least. Much praise to iPads - they are excellent tablets, but not what I need right now.

Edit: laptops run off a battery, not batter.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

I'd buy an Android tablet again. All I use them for is browsing, Netflix, and referencing textbooks that I've digitized.

I've been using one Android tablet or another since my HP Touchpad gave up the ghost. Mostly Samsung now. They work well for me.

I get that I'm the minority there, and I really wish Google could stop with the ADHD, but it really works well for my use cases (layer between the aging laptop that doesn't handle transitioning to battery well and the Android smartphone that also works for me). Especially since I finally started getting security updates on a more frequent basis). In the past, transitioning to Cyanogenmod or Lineage has worked for me when the tablet is no longer supported.

Honestly, I would love it if Google put another two years of work into Android tabletyness that would let me continue to use it for another three, four years at least. Much praise to iPads - they are excellent tablets, but not what I need right now.

Edit: laptops run off a battery, not batter.

But what exactly does Google need to do? As of version 7, android can do windowed apps, and all the features that the ipad pro got just recently, like mouse support, Android had since like version 4.

What really needs to be done? The basic ipad hasn't changed in forever. Samsung also had pen support way before apple did.

 

[slugabed]

"First, the schedule seems to give Wear OS a new name."

Absolutely. Because the hardware, software, and support are immaterial. What's really important is the branding. Every MBA marketing program grad knows you can sell a mixture of goat fat and lye as a beauty product if you give it the right name.

Hey Google - put out a good product and support it well and it doesn't matter what you call it. Put out crap and let it wither on the vine and the market will give it a name, but you probably won't like it.

 

[s73v3r]

"The next long-dead Android form factor that has been suddenly active lately is the Android tablet."

Nothing says "dead" like a 50+% market share....
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273 ... rter-2010/

I looked at your link. The only time the Android category was over 50% was Q42014. The most recent quarter states 36.6%. Using a nearly 7-year-old marketshare figure to bolster your argument seems a bit disingenuous.

What's more misleading is that it's tablets shipped. It's not tablets sold, it's not tablets in use, and it's completely irrelevant for talking about which platform tends to get more use and support.

 

[s73v3r]

While Google’s ADHD is frustrating for consumers, it is devastating for developers. Can you imagine how hard it will be to convince a developer with a significant app that a Google tablet is worth investing real resources in? This will further segment the tablet market.

If you are looking for something cheap that just streams shows and browses the web with first party apps, or something simple like a weather app, sure maybe Google can reboot that market because it involves no meaningful developer buy in.

But if you want to use your tablet—a pro tablet if you will—this space will continue to be owned by Apple and Microsoft. Procreate, Adobe products, video editing, etc. I just spent another round of looking for the perfect note-taking app for my iPad, and there are lots of contenders all of which are serious development efforts (the long app tail). And since Apple has an iPad with access to all these apps in three tiers starting at $329 (iPad, air, pro); this essentially confines any app-less Android effort to the bargain bin.

So yes, Google can reboot Android for tablets but who cares? Because they can’t convince developers that they won’t pull the football away this time, it will be relegated to the cheap extra screen category (again).

Procreate iirc or one of those apps arrived on the ipad like within 3 months of them being released.

Android otoh had proper scaling support for all apps, and never needed tablet only apps.

It's so weird because it takes so little effort to even do a tablet app. Then again apps I use on my Samsung tablet aren't "blown up phone apps." Go figure.

No. Android does not have "proper scaling support" for all apps. I'm an Android developer. If you want an app to be usable on a tablet, and not just be a blown up phone app, you need to put effort into the tablet layout. You don't get that for free.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

While Google’s ADHD is frustrating for consumers, it is devastating for developers. Can you imagine how hard it will be to convince a developer with a significant app that a Google tablet is worth investing real resources in? This will further segment the tablet market.

If you are looking for something cheap that just streams shows and browses the web with first party apps, or something simple like a weather app, sure maybe Google can reboot that market because it involves no meaningful developer buy in.

But if you want to use your tablet—a pro tablet if you will—this space will continue to be owned by Apple and Microsoft. Procreate, Adobe products, video editing, etc. I just spent another round of looking for the perfect note-taking app for my iPad, and there are lots of contenders all of which are serious development efforts (the long app tail). And since Apple has an iPad with access to all these apps in three tiers starting at $329 (iPad, air, pro); this essentially confines any app-less Android effort to the bargain bin.

So yes, Google can reboot Android for tablets but who cares? Because they can’t convince developers that they won’t pull the football away this time, it will be relegated to the cheap extra screen category (again).

Procreate iirc or one of those apps arrived on the ipad like within 3 months of them being released.

Android otoh had proper scaling support for all apps, and never needed tablet only apps.

It's so weird because it takes so little effort to even do a tablet app. Then again apps I use on my Samsung tablet aren't "blown up phone apps." Go figure.

No. Android does not have "proper scaling support" for all apps. I'm an Android developer. If you want an app to be usable on a tablet, and not just be a blown up phone app, you need to put effort into the tablet layout. You don't get that for free.

Then I'll have to question your reputation as an android developer as support for multiple adaptive layouts was introduced waaaaaaay back in version 5 (while support for various resolutions and dpi factors was there in version 4), and apps like Aqua mail and Zoho make good use of it, and don't use or need tablet specific versions.

 

[obarthelemy]

"The next long-dead Android form factor that has been suddenly active lately is the Android tablet."

Nothing says "dead" like a 50+% market share....
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273 ... rter-2010/

I looked at your link. The only time the Android category was over 50% was Q42014. The most recent quarter states 36.6%. Using a nearly 7-year-old marketshare figure to bolster your argument seems a bit disingenuous.

_________________________________________

You need to learn to look. Especially understand the difference between units and %. The chart is in units, you've got to work out the % in your head, ie for Q4 2020 Android is 36.6m units, ipad 17.6m units, rest 7.4 so android is about 36/60 = 60%

I'm guessing.. Apple user ? ;-p

 

[purecarrot]

I don't understand the notion that Android tablets are dead.

We have 3 tablets at home, one iPad and two Android and the iPad sees almost zero use while the Android tablets are used almost every day.

Me and the wife watch videos on them while doing the dishes and the daughter has multiple educational games she plays on the newer one.

The iPad lies dormant because it only supports 3 out of 5 streaming apps we use whereas the older Sony Z2 Tablet supports all 5 (though it's too sluggish for the games so we had to buy a new one for that).

Android tablets are definitely not dead. In fact they handily outperform iPads in wordwide sales. However, Ars is dominated by US based Apple fans which keep posting the same stale jokes about Android tablets (and other Google stuff) in every Google related discussion. And it looks like this is having an effect of a positive feedback loop. Apple fans have less and less clue about Android and their jokes become more and more stale.

It does not help that, for Ars, Ron is the major contributor to Android coverage. He is a known Samsung hater but lately he also started exhibiting disdain for Google.

 

[purecarrot]

"The next long-dead Android form factor that has been suddenly active lately is the Android tablet."

Nothing says "dead" like a 50+% market share....
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273 ... rter-2010/

I looked at your link. The only time the Android category was over 50% was Q42014. The most recent quarter states 36.6%. Using a nearly 7-year-old marketshare figure to bolster your argument seems a bit disingenuous.

What's more misleading is that it's tablets shipped. It's not tablets sold, it's not tablets in use, and it's completely irrelevant for talking about which platform tends to get more use and support.

Go ahead and give us the links for the stats you listed. I am not sure the "sold" stats ever existed since all vendors (including Apple) report shipped numbers (well, Apple stopped reporting any numbers, actually).

 

[purecarrot]

I think Android tablets are more dormant than dead—like Google Plus or Allo were for a while. It still got updates, still had millions of users, but it wasn’t trying to compete for #1. You can’t be an underdog and move slowly.

Android is the world’s most popular smartphone OS. Apple flipped the script with tablets.

Wow. I had no idea Amazon's market share was so small and Samsung's was relatively large.

I'm not sure what that stats is. Installed park of people that browse the web and are detected by their webtracker ?

Not just that, statcounter is supported by all major US centric platforms. I am not sure how well they cover, say, Chinese platforms (if at all).

 

[justin150]

"The next long-dead Android form factor that has been suddenly active lately is the Android tablet."

Nothing says "dead" like a 50+% market share....
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273 ... rter-2010/

I looked at your link. The only time the Android category was over 50% was Q42014. The most recent quarter states 36.6%. Using a nearly 7-year-old marketshare figure to bolster your argument seems a bit disingenuous.

If you are going to look at a chart it might be a good idea to look at what the chart is actual showing. The link showed a chart based on millions of units shipped not percentage of total units. So to use your example the most recent quarter states 36.6m for Android 18.6m for Apple, 7m for Windows and 0.4m for others. That means that the total units shipped were 62.6m so the Android market share would be roughly 58.5%

 

[chifwafwani]

I'd buy an Android tablet again. All I use them for is browsing, Netflix, and referencing textbooks that I've digitized.

I've been using one Android tablet or another since my HP Touchpad gave up the ghost. Mostly Samsung now. They work well for me.

I get that I'm the minority there, and I really wish Google could stop with the ADHD, but it really works well for my use cases (layer between the aging laptop that doesn't handle transitioning to battery well and the Android smartphone that also works for me). Especially since I finally started getting security updates on a more frequent basis). In the past, transitioning to Cyanogenmod or Lineage has worked for me when the tablet is no longer supported.

Honestly, I would love it if Google put another two years of work into Android tabletyness that would let me continue to use it for another three, four years at least. Much praise to iPads - they are excellent tablets, but not what I need right now.

Edit: laptops run off a battery, not batter.

But what exactly does Google need to do? As of version 7, android can do windowed apps, and all the features that the ipad pro got just recently, like mouse support, Android had since like version 4.

What really needs to be done? The basic ipad hasn't changed in forever. Samsung also had pen support way before apple did.

I'd like a wider range of choices when it comes to picking my next tablet. I buy midrange - have been quite satisfied with Motorola's midrange phones. But the last couple of times, Samsung has been my only real choice for tablets.

I think a Google tablet would do wonders even for those who don't purchase it. In the same way that Microsoft's Surface line helps purchasers of other Windows laptops.

Other things are non-tablet specific, but Android-specific.

 

[Walt French]

I would consider purchasing a 7” premium Google tablet if they can convince developers to shore up app support.

It's a bit of chicken-and-egg, isn't it? For a developer to invest time in engineering an interface for a variety of tablet sizes, there'd better be some incremental revenues…user activity/sales they'd miss out on otherwise. And that means that people would need to buy Google tablets in order to get something they couldn't do just as well on their phones.

 

[TurboPascal]

The new table OS UI looks to be targeted at low end devices. Maybe they wish to complete with the Amazon Kindle.

They seem to be handling this wrong. Unless you have an architecture where developers want to create apps and you compete with Apple, all you are doing is competing for the bottom.

Unless there is a lot of money to be made on that bottom tier, they are wasting time and money.

I will be watching but probably not buying because I bet the reviews will show they have made another poor effort in the tablet space.

 

[Lagrange]

Why are they changing the look of the Settings every release?

I was wondering the same thing about Windows and other popular apps/OS. I think that giving a confusing and changing setting panel eventually makes your users accept defaults (tracking/telemetry/etc.). It's the same for dumb cookie consent forms, I now accept all of them and rely on my adBlock.

Also, devs don't get paid for saying "Yup. Looks okay to me. Let's leave it as it is." Not very often, anyway, maybe not more than once.

I wonder whether reviewers contribute to this as well. How often do you see a piece of software, or especially a device get criticised for being the same or similar to its predecessor in terms of UI or physical form?

Something like a laptop gets updated but if it's using the same design that's often seen as a negative point even when there isn't really anything wrong that needs to be changed. I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up influencing product development teams, even if it's on a subconscious level.

 

[Lagrange]

Check out these colors! It looks like they are all driven by the wallpaper selection. A beige-colored wallpaper leads to a beige notification panel, widgets, icons, and more.

That mushy beige mess, with no clear separations and everything looking the same, is one of the worst things I've ever seen.

Is it that way intentionally, to make your eyes hurt?

There's something about this that's so beige, it's like how much more beige could this be? And the answer is none. None more beige.


(with apologies to Spinal Tap)

 

[Chemical Tribe]

I'd buy an Android tablet again. All I use them for is browsing, Netflix, and referencing textbooks that I've digitized.

I've been using one Android tablet or another since my HP Touchpad gave up the ghost. Mostly Samsung now. They work well for me.

I get that I'm the minority there, and I really wish Google could stop with the ADHD, but it really works well for my use cases (layer between the aging laptop that doesn't handle transitioning to battery well and the Android smartphone that also works for me). Especially since I finally started getting security updates on a more frequent basis). In the past, transitioning to Cyanogenmod or Lineage has worked for me when the tablet is no longer supported.

Honestly, I would love it if Google put another two years of work into Android tabletyness that would let me continue to use it for another three, four years at least. Much praise to iPads - they are excellent tablets, but not what I need right now.

Edit: laptops run off a battery, not batter.

But what exactly does Google need to do? As of version 7, android can do windowed apps, and all the features that the ipad pro got just recently, like mouse support, Android had since like version 4.

What really needs to be done? The basic ipad hasn't changed in forever. Samsung also had pen support way before apple did.

I'd like a wider range of choices when it comes to picking my next tablet. I buy midrange - have been quite satisfied with Motorola's midrange phones. But the last couple of times, Samsung has been my only real choice for tablets.

I think a Google tablet would do wonders even for those who don't purchase it. In the same way that Microsoft's Surface line helps purchasers of other Windows laptops.

Other things are non-tablet specific, but Android-specific.

Well, the problem is Pichai. He came from the Chrome team and it is obvious which direction he's been pushing.

 

[elozada]

While Google’s ADHD is frustrating for consumers, it is devastating for developers. Can you imagine how hard it will be to convince a developer with a significant app that a Google tablet is worth investing real resources in? This will further segment the tablet market.

If you are looking for something cheap that just streams shows and browses the web with first party apps, or something simple like a weather app, sure maybe Google can reboot that market because it involves no meaningful developer buy in.

But if you want to use your tablet—a pro tablet if you will—this space will continue to be owned by Apple and Microsoft. Procreate, Adobe products, video editing, etc. I just spent another round of looking for the perfect note-taking app for my iPad, and there are lots of contenders all of which are serious development efforts (the long app tail). And since Apple has an iPad with access to all these apps in three tiers starting at $329 (iPad, air, pro); this essentially confines any app-less Android effort to the bargain bin.

So yes, Google can reboot Android for tablets but who cares? Because they can’t convince developers that they won’t pull the football away this time, it will be relegated to the cheap extra screen category (again).

Procreate iirc or one of those apps arrived on the ipad like within 3 months of them being released.

Android otoh had proper scaling support for all apps, and never needed tablet only apps.

It's so weird because it takes so little effort to even do a tablet app. Then again apps I use on my Samsung tablet aren't "blown up phone apps." Go figure.

No. Android does not have "proper scaling support" for all apps. I'm an Android developer. If you want an app to be usable on a tablet, and not just be a blown up phone app, you need to put effort into the tablet layout. You don't get that for free.

Then I'll have to question your reputation as an android developer as support for multiple adaptive layouts was introduced waaaaaaay back in version 5 (while support for various resolutions and dpi factors was there in version 4), and apps like Aqua mail and Zoho make good use of it, and don't use or need tablet specific versions.

Another Android Dev here (since 2.0) and I assure you the effort to support different scales and form factors within a single app is neither free nor is it trivial. We don't really upload separate app versions in the Playstore to support phones or tablet screens since the framework allows a single app to adapt to the current screen, but we have to spend effort to design and build an app that way along with all the testing effort needed to validate it runs properly on those screens.

The simplest, ugliest way to do it is just blow up the phone layout design, using either ratios (this button is xx% of the screen width) or layout constraints (this component is yyy dp from the left and right of the screen). It works and is simple to do but is horrible for user experience and the app brand (gives the impression that devs are lazy)

The better way is to design the application (both layouts and code) so that it's decomposed into highly decoupled fragments (literally called Fragments in the SDK) that can be slotted into different layout containers. And you can have different designs of layouts that are chosen depending on qualifiers (language, orientation, screen width, pixel density etc...)

And when you have a highly decomposed and decoupled view layer we need to enable the decoupled views to talk to each to other and react to states at different contexts - views specific, application wide, system wide. This is why Android application architecture started gravitating towards reactive programming and MVVM -- to have a cleaner de-coupling between application state vs. the much more volatile view state and layout design.

So in short it's not "a little effort"

edit - some rewording.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

While Google’s ADHD is frustrating for consumers, it is devastating for developers. Can you imagine how hard it will be to convince a developer with a significant app that a Google tablet is worth investing real resources in? This will further segment the tablet market.

If you are looking for something cheap that just streams shows and browses the web with first party apps, or something simple like a weather app, sure maybe Google can reboot that market because it involves no meaningful developer buy in.

But if you want to use your tablet—a pro tablet if you will—this space will continue to be owned by Apple and Microsoft. Procreate, Adobe products, video editing, etc. I just spent another round of looking for the perfect note-taking app for my iPad, and there are lots of contenders all of which are serious development efforts (the long app tail). And since Apple has an iPad with access to all these apps in three tiers starting at $329 (iPad, air, pro); this essentially confines any app-less Android effort to the bargain bin.

So yes, Google can reboot Android for tablets but who cares? Because they can’t convince developers that they won’t pull the football away this time, it will be relegated to the cheap extra screen category (again).

Procreate iirc or one of those apps arrived on the ipad like within 3 months of them being released.

Android otoh had proper scaling support for all apps, and never needed tablet only apps.

It's so weird because it takes so little effort to even do a tablet app. Then again apps I use on my Samsung tablet aren't "blown up phone apps." Go figure.

No. Android does not have "proper scaling support" for all apps. I'm an Android developer. If you want an app to be usable on a tablet, and not just be a blown up phone app, you need to put effort into the tablet layout. You don't get that for free.

Then I'll have to question your reputation as an android developer as support for multiple adaptive layouts was introduced waaaaaaay back in version 5 (while support for various resolutions and dpi factors was there in version 4), and apps like Aqua mail and Zoho make good use of it, and don't use or need tablet specific versions.

Another Android Dev here (since 2.0) and I assure you the effort to support different scales and the form factors within a single app is neither free nor is it trivial. We don't really upload separate app versions in the Playstore to support phones or tablet screens since the framework allows a single app to adapt to the current screen, but we have to spend effort to design and build an app that way along with all the testing effort needed to validate it runs properly on those screens.

The simplest, ugliest way to do it is just blow up the phone layout design, using either ratios (this button is xx% of the screen width) or layout constraints (this component is yyy dp from the left and right of the screen). It works and is simple to do but is horrible for user experience and the app brand (gives the impression that devs are lazy)

The better way is to design the application (both layouts and code) so that it's decomposed into highly decoupled fragments (literally called Fragments in the SDK) that can be slotted into different layout containers. And you can have different designs of layouts that are chosen depending on qualifiers (language, orientation, screen width, pixel density etc...)

And when you have a highly decomposed and decoupled view layer we need to be able to make decoupled views are able to communicate with each to other and react to states at different contexts - views, application wide, system wide. This is why Android application architecture started gravitating towards reactive programming and MVVM -- to have a cleaner de-coupling between application state vs. the much more volatile view state and layout design.

So in short it's not "a little effort"

edit - some rewording.

Well, it takes effort then, but the ability is there. I'm sure it's not any easier on ios, is it?

 

[greenarcher02]

With the rumor going around that the Galaxy Watch4 is going to use WearOS, I'm willing to bet Samsung will be helping Google with the improvements they bring to WearOS.

 

[elozada]

While Google’s ADHD is frustrating for consumers, it is devastating for developers. Can you imagine how hard it will be to convince a developer with a significant app that a Google tablet is worth investing real resources in? This will further segment the tablet market.

If you are looking for something cheap that just streams shows and browses the web with first party apps, or something simple like a weather app, sure maybe Google can reboot that market because it involves no meaningful developer buy in.

But if you want to use your tablet—a pro tablet if you will—this space will continue to be owned by Apple and Microsoft. Procreate, Adobe products, video editing, etc. I just spent another round of looking for the perfect note-taking app for my iPad, and there are lots of contenders all of which are serious development efforts (the long app tail). And since Apple has an iPad with access to all these apps in three tiers starting at $329 (iPad, air, pro); this essentially confines any app-less Android effort to the bargain bin.

So yes, Google can reboot Android for tablets but who cares? Because they can’t convince developers that they won’t pull the football away this time, it will be relegated to the cheap extra screen category (again).

Procreate iirc or one of those apps arrived on the ipad like within 3 months of them being released.

Android otoh had proper scaling support for all apps, and never needed tablet only apps.

It's so weird because it takes so little effort to even do a tablet app. Then again apps I use on my Samsung tablet aren't "blown up phone apps." Go figure.

No. Android does not have "proper scaling support" for all apps. I'm an Android developer. If you want an app to be usable on a tablet, and not just be a blown up phone app, you need to put effort into the tablet layout. You don't get that for free.

Then I'll have to question your reputation as an android developer as support for multiple adaptive layouts was introduced waaaaaaay back in version 5 (while support for various resolutions and dpi factors was there in version 4), and apps like Aqua mail and Zoho make good use of it, and don't use or need tablet specific versions.

Another Android Dev here (since 2.0) and I assure you the effort to support different scales and the form factors within a single app is neither free nor is it trivial. We don't really upload separate app versions in the Playstore to support phones or tablet screens since the framework allows a single app to adapt to the current screen, but we have to spend effort to design and build an app that way along with all the testing effort needed to validate it runs properly on those screens.

The simplest, ugliest way to do it is just blow up the phone layout design, using either ratios (this button is xx% of the screen width) or layout constraints (this component is yyy dp from the left and right of the screen). It works and is simple to do but is horrible for user experience and the app brand (gives the impression that devs are lazy)

The better way is to design the application (both layouts and code) so that it's decomposed into highly decoupled fragments (literally called Fragments in the SDK) that can be slotted into different layout containers. And you can have different designs of layouts that are chosen depending on qualifiers (language, orientation, screen width, pixel density etc...)

And when you have a highly decomposed and decoupled view layer we need to be able to make decoupled views are able to communicate with each to other and react to states at different contexts - views, application wide, system wide. This is why Android application architecture started gravitating towards reactive programming and MVVM -- to have a cleaner de-coupling between application state vs. the much more volatile view state and layout design.

So in short it's not "a little effort"

edit - some rewording.

Well, it takes effort then, but the ability is there. I'm sure it's not any easier on ios, is it?

It's 'easier' purely because of the device and OS situation. There's simply less to worry about in iOS. OS versions in the wild are much stable (90+% are in the current) which means the code were writing is less likely to break in terms of compatibility. I have so. many. horror. stories about this in Android and there are problems across the stack - form Android SDK all the way down to low level C code. There's also fewer screen sizes and pixel densities to worry about in iOS. Way more now than it used to be, but still orders of magnitude fewer compared to Android.

And we can't just assume things work, we are obligated to test. So the effort to test in Android is significantly higher.