Guacamelee...I mean, I did 100% complete both of those games, so I guess it's hard for me to estimate how hard it would be to not do that. The first game isn't too terrible, but the second is one of the hardest games I've succeeded at beating. It's not quite as hard as the hardest things in Hollow Knight (Path of Pain and the Pantheons), which I did not do. It's harder than anything in Silksong.
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Guacamelee...I mean, I did 100% complete both of those games, so I guess it's hard for me to estimate how hard it would be to not do that. The first game isn't too terrible, but the second is one of the hardest games I've succeeded at beating. It's not quite as hard as the hardest things in Hollow Knight (Path of Pain and the Pantheons), which I did not do. It's harder than anything in Silksong.
But the combat was so good... I guess that shows there's no accounting for taste.
If you want a technical fight like that. Sure. I think most people are best served setting difficulty to easy and abusing the shield cantrip (Quen sign?) so you don't get knocked out of combos while you're wailing away on something else.
Some people are mad at Mina the Hollower because they feel the healing system and gameplay are too punishing, but using some Assist options disables Achievements so rather than change the game so they could enjoy it, they'd rather complain and/or abandon it entirely. Some people, I swear.
There are some valid criticisms but it's kind of fascinating how a lot of complaints run parallel to the complaints people had about Crimson Desert with the lack of hand-holding and relatively hollow story, but because the genre is different a lot of reviewers just sucked it up and tried stuff until they figured things out. Or they just learned from the response to CD.
I loved Eurogamer's take, which was "bust out a pen and paper, you're going to want to take notes" or just Steam Screenshot all the things that look suspicious or you may want to revisit. Hand-drawing a map or at least denoting important shortcuts will also help so, so much.
There are some valid criticisms but it's kind of fascinating how a lot of complaints run parallel to the complaints people had about Crimson Desert with the lack of hand-holding and relatively hollow story, but because the genre is different a lot of reviewers just sucked it up and tried stuff until they figured things out. Or they just learned from the response to CD.
I loved Eurogamer's take, which was "bust out a pen and paper, you're going to want to take notes" or just Steam Screenshot all the things that look suspicious or you may want to revisit. Hand-drawing a map or at least denoting important shortcuts will also help so, so much.
Frosty Grin
Ars Legatus Legionis
If that's required for a good experience, it probably should be part of the game. Same goes for Hollow Knight - an adventurer that doesn't do any mapping or note-taking and relies on paid maps that you need to look for? It's not even realistic.
Speaking of Mina the Hollower, is anyone having weird issues with it on PC? I'll play game for bit, quit, and when I want to come back and start another session, I have to go to the task manager and kill the game. It's like quitting from the ingame menu doesn't close it completely. Mina is the only game on my system that does this.
The other weird thing is it seems like it has a baked in profile for RGB keyboards and mice. It just ignores the profile I put in for it and uses whatever the hell RGB colors it wants.
EDIT: I found a setting in the Logitech software that disables integrations (per application even) and that let me override the LED control for the game. Wish it was a setting the Options -> Controls menu of the game though. Would have been easier to find.
This with the GoG version, on an AMD 9800X3D, nVidia 4080 Super, and Logitech RGB input devices.
The other weird thing is it seems like it has a baked in profile for RGB keyboards and mice. It just ignores the profile I put in for it and uses whatever the hell RGB colors it wants.
EDIT: I found a setting in the Logitech software that disables integrations (per application even) and that let me override the LED control for the game. Wish it was a setting the Options -> Controls menu of the game though. Would have been easier to find.
This with the GoG version, on an AMD 9800X3D, nVidia 4080 Super, and Logitech RGB input devices.
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How do you make a functional map for an isometric game that has layers of height, both upper and lower, that matter? You can't just do screenshots of the areas because there's no way to show it in enough detail. You can't just like trace paths denoting the connections and traversals even if you limit it to when a player actually crosses them, because a lot of these are within a room and not across them. Rooms also vary in size and shape.
Like this used to be the stuff you had to pay to get a printed guide of, because you didn't just need the maps you needed the paths traced in particular ways that would help guide the player through. And that's for a walkthrough, not something open-ended like Mina is.
It's like saying that Crosscode really needs a better map because yeah it shows that rooms connect but not how to get there, and if you don't remember that you need to be at height layer X for transition Y you could be backtracking a ton. But more detail would arguably be either distracting, give away secrets, or both. There's a level of granularity in map design that actually becomes counter-productive, because it's not the information a player needs. Mina eventually gives you a map that shows that X connects to Y, but it's similarly very abstracted.
It's like saying there should also be a journal that records every important NPC dialogue, because some NPC's give world or secret hints. Not a journal for every NPC dialogue, of course, because that's a lot of stuff the player doesn't need. Just the ones that actually have a gameplay effect. Technically this is the same argument, but then why hide it in NPC dialogue at all? Just have the NPC reveal the secret and add an icon to the map so the player can't miss it. People act as if the developer is just pushing the work onto them, when the reality is that those complaints don't stop unless the developer literally makes things dead easy and unmissable, and then people complain about yellow paint instead.
How did Daggerfall do it?
I hated the copypasta game after the first hour (and the first broken quest) but I'll never not be blown away by the dungeon mapping.
I hated the copypasta game after the first hour (and the first broken quest) but I'll never not be blown away by the dungeon mapping.
OrHow did Daggerfall do it?
I hated the copypasta game after the first hour (and the first broken quest) but I'll never not be blown away by the dungeon mapping.
There's a separate discussion for 3D games that can display the map as an object and may be pulling from the creation tools. Having an interface that works at all for maps like that is kind of insane, like that's an incredible development feat, but it's also noteworthy that good detailed maps are an exception to the rule.
Two counterpoints here: this is one of Tunic's maps.
Should this map be more detailed? It could have easily been. There's in-game reasons why it isn't. But that did hurt functionality. It creates unnecessary friction. Is this a problem?
Here are two quick Steam snapshots of early areas from Mina, at or close to the hub.
This isn't something you can just export snapshots to and connect in some way. It would be madness. Both of these are small portions of much longer scrolling vertical screens, with offshoots on both sides in addition to the underground areas, caves, door entrances. Again, this is something Bradygames would do on their own. I think I still have a Secret of Mana walkthrough (EDIT: That was not Bradygames. Should have known. The story-focused way the walkthrough was done was so neat). Developers almost never did that work.
Two counterpoints here: this is one of Tunic's maps.
Should this map be more detailed? It could have easily been. There's in-game reasons why it isn't. But that did hurt functionality. It creates unnecessary friction. Is this a problem?
Here are two quick Steam snapshots of early areas from Mina, at or close to the hub.
This isn't something you can just export snapshots to and connect in some way. It would be madness. Both of these are small portions of much longer scrolling vertical screens, with offshoots on both sides in addition to the underground areas, caves, door entrances. Again, this is something Bradygames would do on their own. I think I still have a Secret of Mana walkthrough (EDIT: That was not Bradygames. Should have known. The story-focused way the walkthrough was done was so neat). Developers almost never did that work.
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Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 was pretty great, as I recall.
I was amazed by what Rockstar did with Max Payne 3, particularly viewed through my own lens as someone in recovery. And on a technical level, I do really admire how Rockstar will always just make a game solely for the purpose of testing out some new feature or software. The whole reason Max Payne 3 exists is because the team desperately needed to redo the gunplay and combat mechanics in their engine, which were one of the biggest complaints about GTA4 and Red Dead Redemption. Max Payne 3 was essentially boot camp for their developers to bolt the Euphoria physics engine into RAGE and figure out how they wanted the gunplay to work in RAGE going forward.
And then they took everything they learned and used it for GTA5, which was the whole purpose.
Back to 3s, of course the six-hundred-pound elephant in the room is Final Fantasy III (as labeled in America, even though we of course all know it's actually VI in the series). To be technically correct, it is a 3.
RCT3 continues to be the best theme park management game ever. Some newer games have given vastly improved coaster design tools, but have lackluster park management.
I agree with the Final Fantasy 3 call-out. I have a pewter statuette of Lock right here on my desk.
GTA3 was the leap forward from the isometric design of 1 and 2 into third-person 3d, so it's worth mentioning if talking about significant 3s.
Baldur's Gate 3. Don't think I need to say more.
Bard's Tale 3, the finale of the original Bard's Tale trilogy, and it corrects the mistakes of 2 to make a superior game.
Heroes of Might & Magic 3. We've had discussions of that recently.
Warcraft 3. The last Warcraft game before World of Warcraft made all of the money.
Tropico 3. I feel the series has been kind of declining since then.
I was just looking at the Tropico games... there are a lot. I saw a number of people saying that Tropico 4 was their favorite... or the best while 5 and 6 lacked the charm and personality of the previous games.
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So I have the complete editions of Sid Meier's Civilization III, IV, and VI. Of these, which would be the ideal to try? I do not think I have ever played a Civ game. It has been a very long time since I have played any kind of builder game... Last one might have been Sim City 2000. Oh, I did play some X-Com: Enemy Unknown recently, but I do not think that counts. Nor Warcraft, Heroes of Might and Magic, etc..
IV and VI are both excellent jumping-in points ... but they play so differently that they feel like entirely separate genres. I guess go with IV if you're looking for something more on the macro-strategy level. VI brings in more city-builder simulation stuff like SimCity and really requires you to get into the urban planning. It also has a more tactical feel to it, where as IV is more ... "grand strategy," for lack of a better phrase, I guess?
Other Civ vets, please jump in; my base knowledge of the series comes from II and I only got into IV and VI within the past 8 months.
Edit: IV has incredible narration from Leonard Nimoy.
Edit 2: I think IV was the last Civ game that lets you stack units on a single tile, too, which was always fun.
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Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
I would say that every release since Tropico 3 has just been minor incremental upgrades. Better graphics, a few new jokes, more buildings, various mechanics reworks here and there, but very recognisable as the same game. It's more like a long series of expansion packs.
I can't really fault them too much for playing it safe; the formulae is gold, and Civilisation shows us what happens when you take a big swing... and miss.
I vote each Tropico release does get better, but it's marginal and if someone prefers an earlier entry, I wouldn't argue against it. Heck, I'm not sure I even remember the differences between each title.
Mechwarrior 3 had great LAN play.
Doom 3 is awesome despite being a big departure from the previous titles
Quake 3 is still the gold standard for Arena combat
Half-Life 3 is... still the greatest wet dream of gamers on the internet.
Gran Turismo 3 was a landmark in that series, and the only one I ever 100%. I lost all interest shortly after that.
I guess Bioshock Infinite doesn't count because it lacks a "3" in the title? It was an interesting change, and the move to a decent game engine made the combat much more fluid (IMO).
Fallout 3 was a gigantic change from 1/2. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it has a huge following for a reason.
Sonic 3 was wild. Disputed Michael Jackson soundtrack, cartridge that can be combined with another to make a different game.
Duke Nukem 3(d) was pretty amazing back in the day. I actually still find it quite fun, but can't get over the vlook limitations of the build engine.
Doom 3 is awesome despite being a big departure from the previous titles
Quake 3 is still the gold standard for Arena combat
Half-Life 3 is... still the greatest wet dream of gamers on the internet.
Gran Turismo 3 was a landmark in that series, and the only one I ever 100%. I lost all interest shortly after that.
I guess Bioshock Infinite doesn't count because it lacks a "3" in the title? It was an interesting change, and the move to a decent game engine made the combat much more fluid (IMO).
Fallout 3 was a gigantic change from 1/2. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it has a huge following for a reason.
Sonic 3 was wild. Disputed Michael Jackson soundtrack, cartridge that can be combined with another to make a different game.
Duke Nukem 3(d) was pretty amazing back in the day. I actually still find it quite fun, but can't get over the vlook limitations of the build engine.
After 236 hours (as reported by Steam - in-game says 226, both probably have 10-20 idle hours in there) I think I can finally mark Mewgenics as complete, as I have finally gotten the achievement 'The Box': complete all chapters with every class.
Theoretically, there's still some more to do: I've got to give Tracey 90 more cats, 4 for Butch, 150-ish for Frank, and a little more than 250 cats for the dead cat guy to max them out to get 100% completion; but that seems like a lot of grinding for not a lot of return (especially Frank, since you're limited to sending him 4 cats per day.)
There's also increasing difficulty levels for boss and items unlocks post 100% completion, but meh - I think I'm good. I enjoyed my time and I've certainly gotten my money's worth.
Very much would recommend for lovers of turn-based strategy games, breeding simulators, and/or people who like finding broken combinations of items and abilities.
Theoretically, there's still some more to do: I've got to give Tracey 90 more cats, 4 for Butch, 150-ish for Frank, and a little more than 250 cats for the dead cat guy to max them out to get 100% completion; but that seems like a lot of grinding for not a lot of return (especially Frank, since you're limited to sending him 4 cats per day.)
There's also increasing difficulty levels for boss and items unlocks post 100% completion, but meh - I think I'm good. I enjoyed my time and I've certainly gotten my money's worth.
Very much would recommend for lovers of turn-based strategy games, breeding simulators, and/or people who like finding broken combinations of items and abilities.
Mina the Hollower has a full Manual in the Options menu. This should really be mentioned somewhere in the game, although you do need to enter the Options menu to quit the freaking game so you'd think I'd have seen it the first like 4 times I opened it. It's extremely helpful.
EDIT: I keep getting jumpscared...by a guy who tells bad jokes. It's like rubbing salt in the wound!
EDIT2: First Spark Tower cleared. This game is phenomenal. It's also designed with speed-running, randomizers, and challenge playthroughs in mind. Lots of different routes, lots of shortcuts, lots of tricks just in the Crypt area. Which also gives the obligatory "more damage when health is low" trinket and a whole mess o' bones early on.
Also, the Spark system is super super generous. You don't lose your bones until you lose all your sparks, which you could defeat the enemy that killed you to regain...or you could just go elsewhere and farm a level, or pull a level from crushed bones, which instantly returns all your Sparks.
EDIT: I keep getting jumpscared...by a guy who tells bad jokes. It's like rubbing salt in the wound!
EDIT2: First Spark Tower cleared. This game is phenomenal. It's also designed with speed-running, randomizers, and challenge playthroughs in mind. Lots of different routes, lots of shortcuts, lots of tricks just in the Crypt area. Which also gives the obligatory "more damage when health is low" trinket and a whole mess o' bones early on.
Also, the Spark system is super super generous. You don't lose your bones until you lose all your sparks, which you could defeat the enemy that killed you to regain...or you could just go elsewhere and farm a level, or pull a level from crushed bones, which instantly returns all your Sparks.
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OK, I finished it
I did guess one main plot twist very early on in the game, the identity of the main character. The plot twist of the lamp was less impressive as I felt there was no foreshadowing, but then again it really didn't play too much a role in anything, so it was fine.
I was pretty stressed playing it, because I was always worried I was doing it wrong, or was going to miss something and the entire run would be messed up (thanks King's Quest series, I hate you forever). But then I read someone complaining about the game saying "it has no replayability and every puzzle has only one solution." And funny enough, that made me feel a whole lot better. It meant I couldn't mess up the game. No replayability means that you can't really miss anything, and only one solution means that if you solved it, then you found the right solution.
Finally, I really liked the ending. Shows what became of everyone. Everything tied up with a bow. Even has another plot twist in the end which was properly foreshadowed and thus I was expecting it, but still made me feel good when it happened.
I wouldn't mind playing a sequel.
If I had a complaint, you know, something to put in a Cons column of a review, I'd say that the game didn't really have any "bangers". The music was decent, and good in the moment, but didn't stick with you like "Last Surprise" or "Simple and Clean". I realize those examples feel like I'm holding it to impossible standards, but the game kind of invites it by announcing each time you unlock a song. I really didn't feel the need to go back and listen to any of them. But as far as games go, that is a VERY minor quibble and wouldn't really result in any loss of points. The music wasn't "bad", it just seemed like they thought it was better than I felt it was.
I was pretty stressed playing it, because I was always worried I was doing it wrong, or was going to miss something and the entire run would be messed up (thanks King's Quest series, I hate you forever). But then I read someone complaining about the game saying "it has no replayability and every puzzle has only one solution." And funny enough, that made me feel a whole lot better. It meant I couldn't mess up the game. No replayability means that you can't really miss anything, and only one solution means that if you solved it, then you found the right solution.
Finally, I really liked the ending. Shows what became of everyone. Everything tied up with a bow. Even has another plot twist in the end which was properly foreshadowed and thus I was expecting it, but still made me feel good when it happened.
I wouldn't mind playing a sequel.
If I had a complaint, you know, something to put in a Cons column of a review, I'd say that the game didn't really have any "bangers". The music was decent, and good in the moment, but didn't stick with you like "Last Surprise" or "Simple and Clean". I realize those examples feel like I'm holding it to impossible standards, but the game kind of invites it by announcing each time you unlock a song. I really didn't feel the need to go back and listen to any of them. But as far as games go, that is a VERY minor quibble and wouldn't really result in any loss of points. The music wasn't "bad", it just seemed like they thought it was better than I felt it was.
My next game will be "Grounded". I don't know much about it, but it sort of looks fun I guess. Not too much longer until the Steam sale.
Civ IV was the last Civ game that I really loved; it’s terrific. I tried many times but could never get into Civs III or VI.
It really is a much better co-op game. Them wolf spiders are heinous, and not having a buddy who can revive you makes it brutal. But it is neat playing a tree-punching game with a handcrafted world, so give it a shot either way.
Having tried both now, Void Crew is better than Jump Ship (nee Jump Space) if you're looking for one of those multiplayer "run around to battlestations" games. Void Crew doesn't have any on-foot combat, but frankly that part breaks up the team more often; sticking to really just the ship except for desperate excursions was the right design decision.
(also, currently 50% off, not good enough for the Deals thread, but a good price!)
(also, currently 50% off, not good enough for the Deals thread, but a good price!)
I bought Civ IV, after reading a pile of reviews. It was definitely regarded as a high point. Not that the newer ones were bad, and I think the latest rankings have one of the newer games ahead of Civ IV.
But it's still in my backlog. The only similar game I spent a lot of hours in was SMAC: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. I love that game.
lol. So I started playing Encased (2021). I am still at the beginning. But I wandered over to a guy standing near some coffins. I ah... I got an achievement here. I lied down in the coffin and it clicked shut. I could not open it. So it was picked up and sent to a crematorium and I died earning an achievement for that. I don't pay much attention to achievements, but that was a good one. I approve.
Yeah, just can't play in multiplayer as I tend to play a few minutes the have to go do something else (help the wife, answer the phone, cook, etc...).
I started it up, but since I have no idea what is going on (I'm going in blind) I can only hope I'm doing it right. I understand it is a "base building game" I think, and I tend to enjoy that genre. I'm playing on easy, I think, because it says to pick that for your first run. I survived the first day, picked up a bunch of stuff, analyzed a bunch of stuff, and did something with lasers.
I also found that when you see the grass moving, it seems to be because of large spiders, so I ran the other way. So far I made a few pieces or armor, some basic tools, and a lean-to. I cooked some meat, drank from puddles, and slept through the night better than in real life.
I know everyone is giving advice on where to build the first base, but since none of the locations mean anything to me, it isn't much help. Just kind of chilling for now. The intro indicates that I and my friends have disappeared, and I was dropped here in a custom foam case on a parachute, so I'm guessing there is some sort of science shenanigans involved. Not sure if the game has a plot, or if I'm just trying to survive.
Either way, it seems pretty fun for now. I've only fought a little thing so far, and killed something else for meat. Kind of feels like satisfactory so far, at least the exploring parts, not the factory parts. At least I've become more desensitized to giant spiders trying to kill me...
Well, I'm at annoying-end-game, where I have to wait for (1) the damn buffalo to secrete larger milk supplies, and (2) the seasons to change so I can catch the final moth. I'm going to have to revisit this thread for more cozy-farming games shortly
So I reported my issue with Mina The Hollower closing but leaving a process running to Yacht Club Games on Saturday. I heard back from someone within three hours, who wanted me to clarify a couple of points. This afternoon, there was a patch that fixed it.
I'm sure that others had, and reported, the issue. But, it was really nice to get a response and a quick turnaround on it. Kudos to Yacht Club. Now I just get gud.
I'm sure that others had, and reported, the issue. But, it was really nice to get a response and a quick turnaround on it. Kudos to Yacht Club. Now I just get gud.
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I played that game, not that I finished it, I only got about 6 hours in because I couldn't get into the combat. I got a similar achievement by attempting a random crime and having it go poorly for me (trying not to spoiler anything). That's probably the only thing I remember about that game.
It's hard to make a clear, readable 3D map, but it's certainly been done before, you just need a good level of abstraction and good controls for it. It's also a functional game-design concern because if your level design is too twisty and convoluted to boil down into a good map then it's going to confuse the hell out of a lot of people map or not.
Maps in general are a lot harder to do than most gamers/devs think, which is what leads to a lot of the terrible maps we see and I suspect a lot of the "we don't need a map" nonsense from devs. The correct way to do it with minimal dev impact is to design your level editor in such a way that you get the map auto-generated, possibly with some hints needed to be added in at the design level so the map generator knows what to do in tricky places. Too many games see it as an easy add-on and just stick in a crappy one at the end.
It gets weird with isometric games where the areas aren't grid-based, though, because there's clear tools in place for grid-based mapping solutions but it gets very wonky very quickly when you move away from that. Pipistrello has ways of displaying its odd-shaped rooms and kind of how they connect (it actually just displays adjacency, obstacles, and roads, you as the player are expected to know how things connect) and that ain't grid-based at all, but there's no fidelity within the maps it's just their edges. If - and this is a big if - the "underground areas" map 1:1 to the connections "above" them, you could construct something like the Zelda select-by-floor map and use layering. I suspect this is how their mapping tools would work. But some shortcuts are unlocked in one direction and shoot you across the map via pipes, some areas link in surprising ways that would need to be kept hidden until discovered (and the layering sometimes would give that solution away flat-out), and you still run into a fidelity issue where okay there's 6 sub-floors all accessed from this one grid point, and only two of them link to each other but TECHNICALLY there's 2 floors in between those, how do you indicate which entrance goes where on those floors and the main floor? Like the game is really dense in some areas, and a lot of sub-areas are cavernous with multiple entrances throughout the overworld. And some areas are only accessible through those sub-areas, which makes their inclusion into the mapping system a necessity since not all overworld points are linked through overworld connections.
For the game itself and the developers, this is kind of a non-issue. They should be able to check what goes where and have enough familiarity that any confusion in how it's displayed is irrelevant. But the standard "just map the overworld and mark sub-areas in some way on that" really kind of fails for this game, because what the user cares about is the connections between areas and how one can traverse those connections, rather than what's inside each individual area. It's an interesting problem, and I imagine they took a stab and found it was really difficult to both display this with enough fidelity and give the user a way to navigate with a controller that wasn't incredibly frustrating in practice.
The frustrated users, of course, don't understand or care about this at all. A map that doesn't function well and intuitively for the purposes they'd need would result in the same complaints, but would have taken a substantial amount of additional dev time and effort. And a map on the computer with hyperlinks or scripting that directs you to sub-maps when you click on an entrance would be far more effective and intuitive for those users. But that uses functionality the game is just not going to have, least of all because you need controller navigation.
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You have no idea how frustrating the game makes it - I can't take two regular-sized milks and make a large milk. Nope, has to be large, from the buffalo.
I started playing Ghost of Tsushima a couple of weeks ago. Love the environments and music. Combat is decent enough for me. I'm not great at it, and can't get the abilities to fire very often, but it's still pretty fun. I don't do a whole lot with the bows or ghost weapons (which I just find confusing to use), I prefer to hack and slash.
From what I've heard, the system feels more natural the longer you play with it. There's definitely some hoops to jump through and a learning curve when it comes to the stances, but the game will also steadily ramp up the difficulty in a way that requires you to become more familiar with the stances and abilities over time.