Fellow Americans: How represented do you truly feel by your national government?

[Zero Chill]

I've noticed especially in the "When is it time to flee?" thread that some posters like to smugly point out that a lot of the countries that Americans are thinking of fleeing to are not representative democracies. For instance, I've moved to Vietnam which is a single party state with no freedom of speech, no representative democracy at the national level, no freedom of the press, etc.

So I have a very simple question: how represented do you actually feel by your national government?

And I could go through and list all of the various issues that have 70-80% or more support of the American people and yet cannot be implemented, such as Medicare for all, campaign finance reform, the federal government negotiating cheaper drug prices with pharmaceutical companies, etc, or even the fact that America is currently at war in Iran with the support of roughly 30% of the population, but I don't really think that's necessary.

So I'll just ask.

How represented to you feel by the American government? How much power do you feel like you have to effect change on the national level?

Exactly how much practical, real world democracy and representation do you feel like you have in the United States?

 

[llanitedave]

Fleeing is not the answer. The answer is to create a new government from the ground up. The current system cannot be fixed without drastic structural change. We need to go back to 1789 and start over.

 

[Zero Chill]

Fleeing is not the answer. The answer is to create a new government from the ground up. The current system cannot be fixed without drastic structural change. We need to go back to 1789 and start over.

Can I have a pony while we're at it?

You aren't wrong, of course, just hopelessly naive. Parroting impossible platitudes won't save us.

On a personal note, I have a foreign wife and non-white daughter to look after. Bringing them to a country that is actively hostile to their rights and very existence, where they can be disappeared into an ICE van by masked gestapo thugs and sent to a foreign (or domestic) concentration camp is a non-starter. And that's before getting into the cost of living, terrible healthcare system, and bullet ridden public schools.

And for what? The Republic has already fallen, Rome is burning. Due process and rule of law is dead and buried.

It's over, whether most Americans realize it yet or not.

Besides, (and to bring it back to topic at hand), I can vote from abroad regardless. For all the good a vote in Alabama will do.

 

[Coriolanus]

Bleagh, another cynical BS thread.

 

[Zero Chill]

Bleagh, another cynical BS thread.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but looking at the poll results, you're coming off pretty out of touch and probably overly privileged from the reality of most Americans.

 

[DarthSlack]

I've noticed especially in the "When is it time to flee?" thread that some posters like to smugly point out that a lot of the countries that Americans are thinking of fleeing to are not representative democracies. For instance, I've moved to Vietnam which is a single party state with no freedom of speech, no representative democracy at the national level, no freedom of the press, etc.

So I have a very simple question: how represented do you actually feel by your national government?

And I could go through and list all of the various issues that have 70-80% or more support of the American people and yet cannot be implemented, such as Medicare for all, campaign finance reform, the federal government negotiating cheaper drug prices with pharmaceutical companies, etc, or even the fact that America is currently at war in Iran with the support of roughly 30% of the population, but I don't really think that's necessary.

So I'll just ask.

How represented to you feel by the American government? How much power do you feel like you have to effect change on the national level?

Exactly how much practical, real world democracy and representation do you feel like you have in the United States?

I'm going to say that there's too much packed into that one question. I'm reasonably happy with my representation in Congress, but since they're in the minority, there's not much they can do. And I have limited ability to impact the parts of the Federal government that I think suck donkey balls. So there isn't a single answer here.

 

[Coriolanus]

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but looking at the poll results, you're coming off pretty out of touch and probably overly privileged from the reality of most Americans.

People can think that they aren't well represented in government and still think your take is very cynical. Those two things are not conflicting ideas.

Here's my cynical take - I think this whole thread and poll is an excuse for you to talk about you.

 

[sword_9mm]

Is anyone really represented in any country besides the oligarchy?

What country's government is all in on helping the poor, the sick, the homeless, the whoever at the bottom rungs of society at the expense of the capitalists, the rich, the owner classes?

 

[Shavano]

Can I have a pony while we're at it?

You aren't wrong, of course, just hopelessly naive. Parroting impossible platitudes won't save us.

On a personal note, I have a foreign wife and non-white daughter to look after. Bringing them to a country that is actively hostile to their rights and very existence, where they can be disappeared into an ICE van by masked gestapo thugs and sent to a foreign (or domestic) concentration camp is a non-starter. And that's before getting into the cost of living, terrible healthcare system, and bullet ridden public schools.

And for what? The Republic has already fallen, Rome is burning. Due process and rule of law is dead and buried.

It's over, whether most Americans realize it yet or not.

Besides, (and to bring it back to topic at hand), I can vote from abroad regardless. For all the good a vote in Alabama will do.

First, people feel like they have no agency when a party they oppose is in power. The other side? They have agency. Right now Democrats and progressives and everybody else that's not all on board with Trump's agenda feel like they have no agency because what representation they have in Washington is neutralized by being in a minority. The Republican party got where it is today by being relentless and getting good at organizing.

A lot of people have given up on politicking, but it's how all this stuff we have to deal with was created in the first place and it's what's necessary to make change happen. Sure, some can leave, but that's not going to be most Americans, and it's going to leave most Americans and the world worse off.

Power to change the national government starts near you. It's in identifying issues that are important and finding or MAKING candidates that are committed to progress toward those things.

First past the post elections are a problem, yeah. But you have to change that at the state level because that's where election rules are set. It's also where the rules for who gets the electors in a Presidential election are set.

You don't start with the things that are hard to achieve and require national consensus, because that consensus doesn't exist yet. You have to make it. You make it by showing what works locally and making people elsewhere ask, "Why can't we have that?"

My advice: get to know your state rep (state legislature not Congress) and members of your local government. State level representatives are accessible in a way Congress members just aren't. If your state rep is of an opposition party, tell them why you don't support their policies, and get to know candidates on the other side. Talk to them about what you want. Support their campaigns. Attend their events.

Creating change at the state level is something you can do. Not you alone, but you and a group of like-minded people. If that group exists, join it. If it doesn't, find others who think like you and create it.

 

[Shavano]

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but looking at the poll results, you're coming off pretty out of touch and probably overly privileged from the reality of most Americans.

It's one thing to feel bad about the way things are going. It's another thing to say there's no point. That's just demoralizing those who are trying to make a difference. It supports the status quo.

 

[Thank You and Best of Luck!]

Bleagh, another cynical BS thread.

I sometimes think people posting here don’t know the meanings of some words when they use them. “Cynical” being among those words and this usage being one of those times.

 

[Coriolanus]

I sometimes think people posting here don’t know the meanings of some words when they use them. “Cynical” being among those words and this usage being one of those times.

Out of curiosity, what does "cynical" mean?

 

[drogin]

Is there contention here of some kind?

I don't feel well represented by the Federal Government, but do feel well represented by the State government.

But that's just polling the audience.

So what are you actually after with this thread? Are you trying to form an equivalence between:

"I don't feel represented by the currently elected government, but I am in a system where I should have the expectation of being represented."

And

"I don't feel it's possible to be adequately represented in a democracy and therefore everyone should be OK to live in an on paper authoritarian state."

If that's the case you're trying to make, then maybe do that.

 

[Gungnir888]

I very much feel represented by the government. It is led by hypocritical grifters who only hold to a stance when it is convenient. My biggest mistake was in thinking that wasn't representative of most Americans until 2016.

 

[metlman13]

Just a thought:

Just because someone leaves the country doesn't necessarily mean they are abandoning or have to abandon their homeland to its fate. Plenty of Germans who fled the Nazis continued fighting against the Nazis in their own ways even after they left Germany for their own safety. And some of them even came back after the war ended and it was safe for them to return.

Obviously, someone in another country is not going to be able to meet in person with local figures to build grassroots political movements or be present for in-person volunteer efforts. But that doesn't mean someone living abroad couldn't donate or volunteer online, or try to connect people with resources to help them out. And I'm sure there are other things a person could do in another country to help in some way, however small.

 

[Thank You and Best of Luck!]

It's one thing to feel bad about the way things are going. It's another thing to say there's no point. That's just demoralizing those who are trying to make a difference. It supports the status quo.

“There’s no point” seems like projection.

Pointing out that whatever it is we’re doing isn’t working isn’t benign resignation. It’s almost the opposite of that. On the other hand, accepting or defending what’s clearly not working is at best denial and at worst apathy.

 

[Da Xiang]

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too — John Lennon

 

[Coriolanus]

“There’s no point” seems like projection.

And for what? The Republic has already fallen, Rome is burning. Due process and rule of law is dead and buried.

It's over, whether most Americans realize it yet or not.

 

[07stiltd]

Not at all, exactly as it's been my entire 51 years and will be forever more. When given a choice, the US will do the right thing as soon as they've exhausted all other options.

 

[GohanIYIan]

How represented to you feel by the American government? How much power do you feel like you have to effect change on the national level?

Exactly how much practical, real world democracy and representation do you feel like you have in the United States?

I don't feel very represented by the American government, but that's because my side lost the election.

But as far as practical, real world democracy, the Republicans won fair and square in 2024. We had some state elections in 2025. Everyone in both parties is acting as if we'll have elections this November. That could change, but if I had to bet I'd say odds are there will be elections and Democrats will win the House.

I don't have much power to effect change on the national level, but I don't think that's new or different. Only 0.001% of the population can be president, a member of Congress, or a Supreme Court justice. I'm sure there's a few dozen other jobs and roles that are important in national politics, but it's just the case that the vast, vast majority of people will never become influential figures in national politics.

 

[Quirinus]

First, people feel like they have no agency when a party they oppose is in power. The other side? They have agency. Right now Democrats and progressives and everybody else that's not all on board with Trump's agenda feel like they have no agency because what representation they have in Washington is neutralized by being in a minority.

I disagree on this point and it greatly shapes why I feel strongly that my federal government does not represent me at this time. The federal Democratic leadership, IMO at least, isn't simply behaving that they are powerless. They are, at best, putting out the weakest of efforts to demonstrate being the opposition or, and it's what I suspect, they are acting as controlled opposition and working with Republicans. That behavior is the difference for me from simply feeling sidelined because my supported party is not in power and a sense of angry doomerism from no significant block of legislators will go to bat to stop or slow any of this bullshit fascism that is marching forward. Seemingly, the only stop gaps are blue state goverments, the rising outrage and animosity of the US public at large, and the seemingly demonstrated daily disasters of the oafish idiocy of the current administration to run this country while they gut it. It sure would be nice and make me feel a lot better if the large number of federal Dems would stop being lapdog enablers for the Republicans and join in the struggle.

 

[Lt_Storm]

Fundamentally, representation is less the point of democracy. The point is that when your leadership has really shat the bed, you can replace them without having to fight a civil war or some similar bullshit. Basically, democracy is the best political system because it's the only one that really provides for the correction of errors without bloodshed.

 

[thunderous_funker]

I am unconvinced that either corporate party would take a fundamentally moral stand against the atrocities that have been done in my name in the last 20 years, because they haven't. So count me amongst the "not represented at all" nor hopeful that I will be in the near future.

Yes, I could expect some degree of reduction in localized/domestic cruelty and injustice with up-coming elections, but global terror and destruction have been center consensus positions all of my life.

 

[wrylachlan]

I mean… the point of a democracy isn’t to represent any specific person’s point of view. The idea is that the elected officials, in aggregate, represent a reasonable compromise between different people’s views. So I don’t really care that my views aren’t represented because I know my views aren’t really aligned with that compromise.

I am concerned with the fact that things that have broad support in the electorate can’t even get an up and down vote in congress. That does feel like the elected officials are not, in aggregate, representing the best compromise.

 

[llanitedave]

Can I have a pony while we're at it?

You aren't wrong, of course, just hopelessly naive. Parroting impossible platitudes won't save us.

On a personal note, I have a foreign wife and non-white daughter to look after. Bringing them to a country that is actively hostile to their rights and very existence, where they can be disappeared into an ICE van by masked gestapo thugs and sent to a foreign (or domestic) concentration camp is a non-starter. And that's before getting into the cost of living, terrible healthcare system, and bullet ridden public schools.

And for what? The Republic has already fallen, Rome is burning. Due process and rule of law is dead and buried.

It's over, whether most Americans realize it yet or not.

Besides, (and to bring it back to topic at hand), I can vote from abroad regardless. For all the good a vote in Alabama will do.

So your choice is nihilistic surrender? I'm opining on what needs to be done, not whether or not it's actually going to be done. But I can already tell that if the effort ever ramps up to actually do it, you'll be sniping hopelessly from the sidelines.

 

[Coriolanus]

So your choice is nihilistic surrender? I'm opining on what needs to be done, not whether or not it's actually going to be done. But I can already tell that if the effort ever ramps up to actually do it, you'll be sniping hopelessly from the sidelines.

There's such a whininess in this thread from the "I might as well just lay down and take my fate" faction.

 

[Shavano]

Not at all, exactly as it's been my entire 51 years and will be forever more. When given a choice, the US will do the right thing as soon as they've exhausted all other options.

Really? So they're about to pass gun control and limit Presidential power the very next thing?

 

[Zero Chill]

There's such a whininess in this thread from the "I might as well just lay down and take my fate" faction.

Why don't you pick one or two things people have actually said and address them specifically? As in, quote their actually words and explain how they're wrong to think the things they think.

Creating strawmen you can knock down is certainly easier to be sure, but it's also far more cowardly.

I'll get your started. I said this about my own situation: "On a personal note, I have a foreign wife and non-white daughter to look after. Bringing them to a country that is actively hostile to their rights and very existence, where they can be disappeared into an ICE van by masked gestapo thugs and sent to a foreign (or domestic) concentration camp is a non-starter. And that's before getting into the cost of living, terrible healthcare system, and bullet ridden public schools."

Explain how I'm wrong or just being whiny here.

Or how I'm just laying down and taking it. And taking what, specifically? I'm living a much improved life overseas where my wife can, for instance, access reproductive healthcare services, where our quality of life and standard of living is far higher than in the states, and where we're objectively safer in most ways.

I'll wait, but you'll understand if I don't hold my breath.

 

[Coriolanus]

Why don't you pick one or two things people have actually said and address them specifically? As in, quote their actually words and explain how they're wrong to think the things they think.

This sounds defeatist and whiny. It is defeatist because it is conceding defeat. It is whiny because it is a whine of wailing despair.

And for what? The Republic has already fallen, Rome is burning. Due process and rule of law is dead and buried.

It's over, whether most Americans realize it yet or not.

 

[drogin]

I'll get your started. I said this about my own situation: "On a personal note, I have a foreign wife and non-white daughter to look after. Bringing them to a country that is actively hostile to their rights and very existence, where they can be disappeared into an ICE van by masked gestapo thugs and sent to a foreign (or domestic) concentration camp is a non-starter. And that's before getting into the cost of living, terrible healthcare system, and bullet ridden public schools."

Explain how I'm wrong or just being whiny here.

Or how I'm just laying down and taking it. And taking what, specifically? I'm living a much improved life overseas where my wife can, for instance, access reproductive healthcare services, where our quality of life and standard of living is far higher than in the states, and where we're objectively safer in most ways.

I mean, not for nothing, but:

I think this whole thread and poll is an excuse for you to talk about you.

What does any of the stuff you just said have to do with your own OP?

 

[Coriolanus]

I'll get your started. I said this about my own situation: "On a personal note, I have a foreign wife and non-white daughter to look after. Bringing them to a country that is actively hostile to their rights and very existence, where they can be disappeared into an ICE van by masked gestapo thugs and sent to a foreign (or domestic) concentration camp is a non-starter. And that's before getting into the cost of living, terrible healthcare system, and bullet ridden public schools."

As a member of a family of non-white foreign born people living in Arkansas who are just as much a target as your wife and daughter - do you want a cookie or something?

 

[Zero Chill]

As a member of a family of non-white foreign born people living in Arkansas who are just as much a target as your wife and daughter - do you want a cookie or something?

I was disputing your claim that I am simply "rolling over and taking it." That's objectively false. I'm making decisions to actively protect the health, safety, and well being of my family. And because we have other, better options than living in Arkansas or Alabama, we're choosing those better options.

You've obviously made differing decisions regarding your own family, and that's fine, but it has nothing to do with the range of options and cost-benefit analysis available to me and mine.

I mean, not for nothing, but:



What does any of the stuff you just said have to do with your own OP?

I was responding to people addressing me, specifically. Well not specifically as he didn't actually address any of my specific arguments, but it was pretty clearly directed at me.

And yes, my own experiences color my opinions, as they do for literally everyone else. I'm happy to drop this line and get back to the topic at hand, but it's not really up to me if others choose to continue making extremely thinly veiled personal attacks, is it?

So can we please drop it? I'm asking with 100% sincerity.

 

[Coriolanus]

I was disputing your claim that I am simply "rolling over and taking it." That's objectively false.

Then stop whining about how all is lost.

 

[drogin]

I'm fine dropping that whole line, but my other ask would be for folks on the other side of the argument to answer the inverse.

The premise of "do Americans feel represented in their democracy" begs the question:

Do people in single-party states feel well represented?

I think there is a pretty important distinction between people feeling comfortable and happy with where they live, and feeling represented by their government.

To avoid picking out the OP's author again, we have folks that love living in China. Good for them, but does that have to mean they feel well represented by the Chinese government? Like, y'all just out there co-signing everything the Chinese government does?

 

[wrylachlan]

Let me ask a broad question here. If you hold an extreme political view - one that is only shared by say 5% of the population - does there need to be an elected official espousing that view for you to consider the democracy “representative”? Or put another way, how small a niche must an idea be before its “okay” for that idea not to have a champion among elected officials?

Changing the election rules can change the way ideas are distributed in an elected democracy. For example a ranked pair voting scheme for a single seat will tend to elect more centrists than a first past the post system. Something like a ranked choice election in a multi-representative election will tend to spread out the representation - bringing in both extremes and the center.

Is a system where the representatives cluster around the compromise point better than a system where there are representatives across the spectrum of political ideas or vice versa?

 

[Thank You and Best of Luck!]

Out of curiosity, what does "cynical" mean?

Not this…

defeatist and whiny

or this…

whining about how all is lost

It does however mean to be distrusting and skeptical of people’s motivations and sincerity. Expecting that they’re going to be broadly self-interested and not broadly altruistic. Which means we also got to learn the definition of irony today!

 

[Crolis]

Then stop whining about how all is lost.

Do you think you are adding substance to this thread?

To the topic of the thread, I do not feel personally represented but only because my views, morals, ethics, etc are not representative of the American people. We are a country filled with too many evil idiots and thus tend to get the government that represents that. But even when the idiots turn on their idiot leaders and elect less idiotic and evil leaders to various degrees I still don't feel that represented because of stupid shit like the Senate and electoral college perpetually hamstringing change.

Edit: Will add my state government is better so there is that.

 

[GohanIYIan]

Let me ask a broad question here. If you hold an extreme political view - one that is only shared by say 5% of the population - does there need to be an elected official espousing that view for you to consider the democracy “representative”? Or put another way, how small a niche must an idea be before its “okay” for that idea not to have a champion among elected officials?

Changing the election rules can change the way ideas are distributed in an elected democracy. For example a ranked pair voting scheme for a single seat will tend to elect more centrists than a first past the post system. Something like a ranked choice election in a multi-representative election will tend to spread out the representation - bringing in both extremes and the center.

Is a system where the representatives cluster around the compromise point better than a system where there are representatives across the spectrum of political ideas or vice versa?

It seems to me it really doesn't matter.

Estimates vary, but 5% is in the ballpark of the share of Americans who are vegan. And I know there are a couple of members of Congress who are vegan. But they're not "championing" anything. Pushing a bill that 95% of the country disagrees with would be politically toxic, and also it wouldn't work so sensible politicians don't do that regardless of their personal views.

Did vegans across the country feel their life improved in 2012 relative to 2011 because Corey Booker eats veggie burgers? That's seems unlikely to me and would be a strange way for people to relate to politics.

 

[wrylachlan]

It seems to me it really doesn't matter.

Estimates vary, but 5% is in the ballpark of the share of Americans who are vegan. And I know there are a couple of members of Congress who are vegan. But they're not "championing" anything. Pushing a bill that 95% of the country disagrees with would be politically toxic, and also it wouldn't work so sensible politicians don't do that regardless of their personal views.

Did vegans across the country feel their life improved in 2012 relative to 2011 because Corey Booker eats veggie burgers? That's seems unlikely to me and would be a strange way for people to relate to politics.

That’s interesting. Am I reading between the lines correctly that you feel like “represented” definitionally means “shares my lifestyle” rather than “shares and advocates for my political and policy preferences”.

 

[Zero Chill]

I specifically referenced in the OP how there are an entire range of issues that 70-80% or more of Americans support but which the corporate duopoly cannot or will not implement.

There's really no need to bring up issues with 5% support.

Also re: anyone living in China, yes that's exactly my point. China is not a representative democracy, but neither is the United States, so it's basically a moot point to use representation as a "gotcha" to people considering moving out of the US. You're literally making my point.