Facebook finally gives LGBT users the vocabulary they need

Facebook is finally on the road to trans*, androgynous, cis-, and beyond.

Read the whole story

 

[JamesHulsmann]

Korgoth[/url]":34a7eqoy]This whole thing reminds me of a scene in Life of Brian:

STAN: Women have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.

FRANCIS: Why are you always on about women, Stan?

STAN: I want to be one.

REG: What?

STAN: I want to be a woman. From now on, I want you all to call me 'Loretta'.

REG: What?!

LORETTA: It's my right as a man.

JUDITH: Well, why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?

LORETTA: I want to have babies.

REG: You want to have babies?!

LORETTA: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.

REG: But... you can't have babies.

LORETTA: Don't you oppress me.

REG: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the fetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!

LORETTA: crying

JUDITH: Here! I-- I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the right to have babies.

FRANCIS: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister. Sorry.

REG: What's the point?

FRANCIS: What?

REG: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he can't have babies?!

FRANCIS: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.

REG: Symbolic of his struggle against reality.

Call yourself whatever gender you wan't, doesn't change reality.

Except, of course, that your views (and those of many others) that gender is indeed binary is flat out wrong. There are many "men" and "women" walking around today that consider themselves as such and so would any who slept with them who actually seem to have the wrong chromosomes. I am not talking of T's either - these are people would will live their lives as, uh, cisgender.

Hormones, a funny thing, aint they!

For more information - use the damn internet!

 

[greenbobb]

I've always been male. It hasn't always been fun. Sometimes it seems like it would be easier to be female. I have alot of "feminine" qualities, and those are good things to have. But the easiest, most honest and most practical path is acceptance. If you're male, trying to be female is going to be more trouble than it's worth.

99 times out of 100 you get your gender at birth and it's clearly either male or female. Every cell in your body will reflect that outcome with an XX or an XY and will stay that way as long as your cells are still capable of dividing and multiplying. Sometimes strange stuff happens and it's hard to tell if you're male or female or something in between. If all you can get to is a resounding, "I don't know." Be honest with yourself. You don't know.

Finally, sometimes you DO know what you are despite all the odds, and no one else in the world may accept it. You never have to succumb to other peoples opinions or preferences for you. You still get to be yourself and know who you are, even though it may not be easy. You will, however, absolutely have to accept the fact that others don't, and may never, understand.

In some respect everyone faces challenges of identity, that's life.

 

[Bluefinger]

BINARYGOD[/url]":1vfkhvy1]No one will read this, because its on page 8 or something of the comments, and its slightly off topic anyway - but as a G man, I get the whole LGB-people standing together. I never understood the inclusion of the T.

I am a dude, I like dudes... and I also happen to love my penis, thank you.


Just because, typical/historically, S's like to lump everyone else together in one group doesn't mean we should have to. T is not even remotely related to LGB, it's a whole-nother can of worms.


Wait... S? T? what the fuck am I talking about? *Goes the gym*

I don't understand this mentality amongst some members of the LGB community. It is one of the more hypocritical mentalities that I have had the unfortunate experience of witnessing.

From a group of people who should know better about groups of people getting discriminated against with regards to one set of issues, you'd think they'd be all for being inclusive when another group facing similar discrimination for albeit a divergent issue. Nope. You still get stupid folks who are too short-sighted to see why the T in LGBT is also included.

Gender issues might be 'another can o' worms', but they still fall under that umbrella of 'things that society frowns upon'. The sort of thing that LGB peeps have also been lumped under. They are all riding on the same boat and should be working together. I'd think we as a whole can work towards making society a fairer place for all, not just one particular group.

 

[dialacina]

BINARYGOD[/url]":26lp55i7]No one will read this, because its on page 8 or something of the comments, and its slightly off topic anyway - but as a G man, I get the whole LGB-people standing together. I never understood the inclusion of the T.

I am a dude, I like dudes... and I also happen to love my penis, thank you.


Just because, typical/historically, S's like to lump everyone else together in one group doesn't mean we should have to. T is not even remotely related to LGB, it's a whole-nother can of worms.


Wait... S? T? what the fuck am I talking about? *Goes the gym*

The inclusion of the T in LGBT is pretty basic...

1. On a basic level, as with Jewish Americans during the Civil Rights movement supported Aftican Americans, oppressed minorities often feel a kinship and understanding coupled with a desire to help others in similar situations. So arguing against the inclusion is on a basic level arguing against empathy.

2. The trans community has long been supporters and advocates for gay rights. In fact, they've pretty much gone hand in hand since day one.

3. Many LGB people aren't stereotypically gender conforming. Many actively reject binary gender roles and performance. Many trans people are LGB.

4. For a long time psychology more or less considered trans people to be pathological gay people, and gay people were pathological straight people.

5. The status quo considers them the same issue (just look at the bulk of commentary in these comments).

6. We're stronger together.

Etc.

 

[dialacina]

greenbobb[/url]":xf2bznl1]I've always been male. It hasn't always been fun. Sometimes it seems like it would be easier to be female.

Yep, this is because sexism also hurts men. And I don't mean in a "a less qualified woman took my job because our company needed diversity" way either. Rigid, binary ideas about gender hurt men in a myriad of ways. Just look at the way we talk about boys who prefer drama over football in school. Or men who prefer and excel in supportive roles rather than in leadership positions. Male survivors of sexual and domestic violence, etc.

But the easiest, most honest and most practical path is acceptance. If you're male, trying to be female is going to be more trouble than it's worth.

This is a horribly reductive and destructive line of thinking. This is what lead to the development of "reparative therapy" for gay (as well as trans) individuals. It promotes the idea that gays and trans people are pretending to be something they are not (untrue) or that they are suffering from a pathological psychology (also untrue). It contributes to enhancing entrenched ideas about gender that are sexist and ultimately hurt everyone.

And when you speak of acceptance and honesty, you completely miss the point that is exactly what trans people have been fighting to do against this kind of mentality. All we want is to live authentically as ourselves the way every cisgender straight person has forever. Our struggle for self-acceptance often is only realized I after years of trying to force ourselves to conform to biological sex determination and societal pressure. If anything is dishonest, it is laboring to live unauthentically based on what society wants FOR US. Not what we understand to be honest ourselves. Sadly, you may be right in your determination that "it's more trouble than it's worth" given that trans people have one of the highest rates of suicide of any cohort. However, that's the outcome exclusive of either living a completely disingenuous life to appease others and/or the internalized shame many (if not most) trans people feel due to societal influence and violence. [/quote]

99 times out of 100 you get your gender at birth and it's clearly either male or female. Every cell in your body will reflect that outcome with an XX or an XY and will stay that way as long as your cells are still capable of dividing and multiplying. Sometimes strange stuff happens and it's hard to tell if you're male or female or something in between. If all you can get to is a resounding, "I don't know." Be honest with yourself. You don't know.

Your gender is reflexively assigned at birth based on sex characteristics. Namely, a penis or a vagina. But that's not the end of the story, because gender is not sex. And this is generally held to be the common idea in medical practice. But because trans people are a minority, we still generally make out OK in assigning gender based on the presence (or lack of) of a penis. If this wasn't true, there wouldn't be studies of biological males who had botched circumcisions and had their gender changed to female and raised accordingly. Interesting enough, one of the most famous of these instances, the individual knew something wasn't right, and later in life went from living as a woman to living as a man. And this doesn't even get into intersex individuals.[/quote]

Finally, sometimes you DO know what you are despite all the odds, and no one else in the world may accept it. You never have to succumb to other peoples opinions or preferences for you. You still get to be yourself and know who you are, even though it may not be easy. You will, however, absolutely have to accept the fact that others don't, and may never, understand.

No one has to accept that "fact." Whenever you argue AGAINST empathy as you have expressly done, you have lost. Period. It may be a thankless, exhausting experience, but promoting empathy is arguably the most important, and necessary things for humanity to engage in.

As for succumbing to societal influence, that's easier to say when societally you are at the top of the established hierarchy and the world has been set up to almost entirely cater and respond to you. And make no mistake, it does cater to and reflect a male dominance. Male is the baseline and has been for centuries in western civilization, everyone else is other. Just like being white and being straight.

 

[dialacina]

AnonymousRich[/url]":3ejnhjqw]

dialacina[/url]":3ejnhjqw]

WIT_IDE[/url]":3ejnhjqw]I was going to reply to someone but then I read what cisgender is and now I have a headache.

It's really very simple Latin.

cis - on this side of

trans - across

Gender - from "genus" meaning birth or family

Cisgender is literally saying your on the side of your birth and transgender refers to being across from your birth.

I'm reading this as saying 'gender' is a binary quantity, male or female. But the charts others have posted show more options and would seem to render this kind of positional notation meaningless.

Well, it mostly grows out of clinical usage. Transvestite (literally meaning cross-dressing) which is no longer considered appropriate use even in psychological circles. Which later lead to Transsexual (meaning someone with a desire to or who had changed his or her sex), and was more or less scrapped because it places all the emphasis on an individual's genitalia at the expense of their lived experience (go watch Janet Mock v. Katie Couric for more on this). And it settled for the moment on "transgender."

Given that most people can't even begin to deal with trans men and women, and often non-binary individuals get left out of the discussion entirely (which is wrong, for the record) ... Trans still works. And you can linguistically fiddle it around to make trans work for non-binary people as well, you just have to use one of the less common meanings of the Latin root (over and through being the next most helpful).

This was meant to specifically explain cis- and trans- on a 101 level.

And honestly, some non-binary people reject the "trans" distinction or merely use it as a socio-political distinction.

 

[Korgoth]

BINARYGOD[/url]":3l0fqnho]


Except, of course, that your views (and those of many others) that gender is indeed binary is flat out wrong. There are many "men" and "women" walking around today that consider themselves as such and so would any who slept with them who actually seem to have the wrong chromosomes. I am not talking of T's either - these are people would will live their lives as, uh, cisgender.

Hormones, a funny thing, aint they!

For more information - use the damn internet!

No thanks I will stick with my biology text.

 

[ninshubur]

greenbobb[/url]":1nb28jv8]I've always been male. It hasn't always been fun. Sometimes it seems like it would be easier to be female. I have alot of "feminine" qualities, and those are good things to have. But the easiest, most honest and most practical path is acceptance. If you're male, trying to be female is going to be more trouble than it's worth.

99 times out of 100 you get your gender at birth and it's clearly either male or female. Every cell in your body will reflect that outcome with an XX or an XY and will stay that way as long as your cells are still capable of dividing and multiplying. Sometimes strange stuff happens and it's hard to tell if you're male or female or something in between. If all you can get to is a resounding, "I don't know." Be honest with yourself. You don't know.

Finally, sometimes you DO know what you are despite all the odds, and no one else in the world may accept it. You never have to succumb to other peoples opinions or preferences for you. You still get to be yourself and know who you are, even though it may not be easy. You will, however, absolutely have to accept the fact that others don't, and may never, understand.

In some respect everyone faces challenges of identity, that's life.

I am genuinely happy for you that it worked out as it did for you. It doesn't do for everybody though. Personally, I found it a lot more trouble for me and others trying to conform to the norms of my birth sex. Anyway, YMMV.

By the way: The "I don't know and people don't really know" was one of the worst places ever to be for me. Might work for some people, didn't work for me. Didn't really work for the people I love.

Which brings us to acceptance. I know I can force nobody to accept me either as my birth gender or the gender that is very strongly suggested by the way I live. Somewhat unusually, I actually don't force people to chose one over another. You can like me or you can dislike me. You can accept me as male or as female or whatever gender category you can dream of.

All I ask for is that I am going to be judged on my own merits as a human being and not a priori dismissed on the grounds of some stupid prejudice about transgender people you might have acquired.

 

[dualmoon]

ChrisSD[/url]":38ca2rr3]

looselycoupled[/url]":38ca2rr3]I do understand that gender itself (not gender identity) can be really complex from a biological standpoint, with all sorts of sex chromosome/DNA issues or early hormonal abnormalities which can cause ambiguous/mixed genitalia, secondary sexual characteristics, body morphology, etc. That said, I would think that gender IDENTITY would be much more of a binary choice that the is individual (or parents who raise them) makes and wouldn't be so fluid or ephemeral.

Really? Ok say you've built yourself an AI. It has no physical sexual characteristics at all but you do want to give it a human-like personality. What traits would you add to make it unambiguously female? What traits would you add to make it unambiguously male? Are these traits mutually exclusive? Wouldn't it be possible to mix traits such that it was of very ambiguous gender while still seeming human?

Oh well that's easy. You build that AI using whatever traits are considered "feminine" by the current society.

AnonymousRich[/url]":38ca2rr3]

Nekojin[/url]":38ca2rr3]Preference for pink or blue? Social.

What you are doing now is social messaging, not science.

If it was purely social, one would expect other cultures to do things differently, perhaps with different colors altogether, or even with the colors reversed.

I don't have time for a thorough search, but I did find this...

Why do girls wear pink and boys wear blue?

-- The researchers assembled 206 test subjects of both sexes between the ages of 20 and 26 for
-- the study. Most were British Caucasians, but 37 were of Chinese ancestry and were raised in
[..snip..]

Can you tell me where you learned that this color preference was purely social?

So people who have been a part of society for over 2 decades lean one way over the other.....but there's no way it's because of society? Are you being dense or....?

 

[dualmoon]

[merged with above]

 

[looselycoupled]

by your logic all minority groups that are discriminated against should be as well. LGBTBJAAxxxxxx (black/Jewish/Asian/atheist/etc).
I do understand why they would be grouped together based on their surface-level similarities. That said, while it may not be right or fair, I think it does indeed hurt the cause of LGB rights and integration in the USA. I would hazard a guess that the majority of people are accepting and inclusive of LGB individuals, having become more comfortable with the concept. That is not the case at all with transgender issues, and insofar as they get linked together, it will make it more difficult for the continued acceptance and evolution of society.

This is certainly anecdotal, but I know a lot of people who are comfortable with gays and lesbians, but would certainly be weirded out by transsexuals. Obviously that isn't fair and is more than likely an issue of fear and hostility towards unfamiliar things. Like is the case with most social change, it has to be eased in for it to be effective. If Clinton had pushed for gay marriage and full equality in 1992 it would not have gone over well.

Bluefinger[/url]":3uak0yea]
I don't understand this mentality amongst some members of the LGB community. It is one of the more hypocritical mentalities that I have had the unfortunate experience of witnessing.

From a group of people who should know better about groups of people getting discriminated against with regards to one set of issues, you'd think they'd be all for being inclusive when another group facing similar discrimination for albeit a divergent issue. Nope. You still get stupid folks who are too short-sighted to see why the T in LGBT is also included.

Gender issues might be 'another can o' worms', but they still fall under that umbrella of 'things that society frowns upon'. The sort of thing that LGB peeps have also been lumped under. They are all riding on the same boat and should be working together. I'd think we as a whole can work towards making society a fairer place for all, not just one particular group.

 

[greenbobb]

ninshubur[/url]":3s85uyow]

greenbobb[/url]":3s85uyow]I've always been male. It hasn't always been fun. Sometimes it seems like it would be easier to be female. I have alot of "feminine" qualities, and those are good things to have. But the easiest, most honest and most practical path is acceptance. If you're male, trying to be female is going to be more trouble than it's worth.

99 times out of 100 you get your gender at birth and it's clearly either male or female. Every cell in your body will reflect that outcome with an XX or an XY and will stay that way as long as your cells are still capable of dividing and multiplying. Sometimes strange stuff happens and it's hard to tell if you're male or female or something in between. If all you can get to is a resounding, "I don't know." Be honest with yourself. You don't know.

Finally, sometimes you DO know what you are despite all the odds, and no one else in the world may accept it. You never have to succumb to other peoples opinions or preferences for you. You still get to be yourself and know who you are, even though it may not be easy. You will, however, absolutely have to accept the fact that others don't, and may never, understand.

In some respect everyone faces challenges of identity, that's life.

I am genuinely happy for you that it worked out as it did for you. It doesn't do for everybody though. Personally, I found it a lot more trouble for me and others trying to conform to the norms of my birth sex. Anyway, YMMV.

By the way: The "I don't know and people don't really know" was one of the worst places ever to be for me. Might work for some people, didn't work for me. Didn't really work for the people I love.

I agree, entirely. "I don't know" is painful beyond measure, especially for honest, truth-loving people like what I perceive you to be. Please take that as a compliment. I have no doubt that it was immeasurably more difficult for you than for me. Sometimes, "I don't know" is where you start. Sometimes it's the only place to start from that really makes sense. Admitting a lack of immediate knowledge is often the only way to get to the actual truth.

ninshubur[/url]":3s85uyow]

Which brings us to acceptance. I know I can force nobody to accept me either as my birth gender or the gender that is very strongly suggested by the way I live. Somewhat unusually, I actually don't force people to chose one over another. You can like me or you can dislike me. You can accept me as male or as female or whatever gender category you can dream of.

All I ask for is that I am going to be judged on my own merits as a human being and not a priori dismissed on the grounds of some stupid prejudice about transgender people you might have acquired.

You're my hero. Thank you so much for asking, and politely at that. I have no prejudice about transgender people. They are people just like everyone else. Sometimes the thought of it scares me, but that is a stupid reason to disrespect people or to belittle them.

Thank you, deeply and sincerely, for a careful and thoughtful reply. Thanks also for not putting words in my mouth. Let this be a testament to the fact that people can actually communicate and accept each-other despite differences. It's hard but it's worth it.

 

[greenbobb]

dialacina[/url]":uxgp6n9o]

greenbobb[/url]":uxgp6n9o]

... despite all the odds, and no one else in the world may accept it. You never have to succumb to other peoples opinions or preferences for you. You still get to be yourself and know who you are, even though it may not be easy. You will, however, absolutely have to accept the fact that others don't, and may never, understand.

No one has to accept that "fact." Whenever you argue AGAINST empathy as you have expressly done, you have lost. Period. It may be a thankless, exhausting experience, but promoting empathy is arguably the most important, and necessary things for humanity to engage in.

I've said nothing of empathy until now. I am expressly for it. I agree with your statement on this matter entirely. Especially the part about it being thankless and exhausting. Empathy is a difficult, but critical part of any meaningful relationship. What I have said, and am still saying, is that no one can ever forcefully change the mind of another. Those who attempt it show very clearly, I think, that they have no empathy for the person or persons they are trying to change.

 

[Bluefinger]

looselycoupled[/url]":32hischa]by your logic all minority groups that are discriminated against should be as well. LGBTBJAAxxxxxx (black/Jewish/Asian/atheist/etc).
I do understand why they would be grouped together based on their surface-level similarities. That said, while it may not be right or fair, I think it does indeed hurt the cause of LGB rights and integration in the USA. I would hazard a guess that the majority of people are accepting and inclusive of LGB individuals, having become more comfortable with the concept. That is not the case at all with transgender issues, and insofar as they get linked together, it will make it more difficult for the continued acceptance and evolution of society.

This is certainly anecdotal, but I know a lot of people who are comfortable with gays and lesbians, but would certainly be weirded out by transsexuals. Obviously that isn't fair and is more than likely an issue of fear and hostility towards unfamiliar things. Like is the case with most social change, it has to be eased in for it to be effective. If Clinton had pushed for gay marriage and full equality in 1992 it would not have gone over well.

I'm not sure I buy this particular argument, because the thing with LGB and the T is that there is plenty of overlap within the communities. A fair number of T are LGB as well, and vice versa. Plus to note, it isn't just transexuals who form the T part, it is transgender, anyone who falls under being gender variant (aka, not quite fitting in the gender binary).

Also, I actually do think a lot of other minority groups should work together, as the underlying issue of minority discrimination is something that affects many communities, not just the LGBT. Maybe not by combining their message into one massive thing, but more support each others efforts and learn from each other.

You are right that getting society to be more accepting of transgender issues will take time and 'easing in to'. But for that change to come about, there needs to be exposure to such issues. Bringing transgender issues to the forefront along with LGB issues is one way of achieving that, so I don't see why it will hurt in the long run. It might complicate things in the short term, but social change shouldn't be about quick wins.

 

[crise]

This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

 

[toxic_avenger]

cyber|kinetic[/url]":1310jqjm]Never heard of 'cis-gender' before...

What is the difference between gender and sex? I thought it was just linguistic preference, but apparently there is more to it than that.

Actually somewhat surprised it's taken so long for this to happen on FB, or anywhere really. Glad it's been sorted though, it's always annoying to be pigeonholed in the wrong box, so to speak.

Books and the internet, they are wonderful things from what I hear!

 

[ninshubur]

crise[/url]":dc69aqas]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Contrary to your apparent belief, people do spend a considerable part of their lives doing other things than having babies or thinking of having babies. And whether you like it or not, it still does make a difference at those times we are not having babies and not thinking of having babies which of the two socially constructed buckets that are attached to our role in baby making we happen to fall in.

I am also somewhat flabbergasted that you registered just to share this incredibly insightful morsel of wisdom.

 

[crise]

ninshubur[/url]":2sschf5p]

crise[/url]":2sschf5p]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Contrary to your apparent belief, people do spend a considerable part of their lives doing other things than having babies or thinking of having babies. And whether you like it or not, it still does make a difference at those times we are not having babies and not thinking of having babies which of the two socially constructed buckets that are attached to our role in baby making we happen to fall in.

I am also somewhat flabbergasted that you registered just to share this incredibly insightful morsel of wisdom.

Nobody can argue what they are. Just as you are human and not a cat, you are female or male. That's your position in nature. That's how we give names to things. A trans is NOT a gender but simply a behavior or state of mind. Did you ever see a transsexual cat? No.

 

[dracusoara]

crise[/url]":2eyanfmg]

ninshubur[/url]":2eyanfmg]

crise[/url]":2eyanfmg]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Contrary to your apparent belief, people do spend a considerable part of their lives doing other things than having babies or thinking of having babies. And whether you like it or not, it still does make a difference at those times we are not having babies and not thinking of having babies which of the two socially constructed buckets that are attached to our role in baby making we happen to fall in.

I am also somewhat flabbergasted that you registered just to share this incredibly insightful morsel of wisdom.

Nobody can argue what they are. Just as you are human and not a cat, you are female or male. That's your position in nature. That's how we give names to things. A trans is NOT a gender but simply a behavior or state of mind. Did you ever see a transsexual cat? No.

For a long long time people said that homosexuality is unnatural, and not found anywhere else in nature. It's all over nature.

There are species out there of animals and plants that change genders based on environmental pressures.

Your point of "a man is a man and a woman is a woman" has been covered in this thread repeatedly, and there have been some very intelligent and insightful comments. I highly suggest you go back and read them instead of treading old, ignorant ground.

 

[ninshubur]

crise[/url]":32utylpo]

ninshubur[/url]":32utylpo]

crise[/url]":32utylpo]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Contrary to your apparent belief, people do spend a considerable part of their lives doing other things than having babies or thinking of having babies. And whether you like it or not, it still does make a difference at those times we are not having babies and not thinking of having babies which of the two socially constructed buckets that are attached to our role in baby making we happen to fall in.

I am also somewhat flabbergasted that you registered just to share this incredibly insightful morsel of wisdom.

Nobody can argue what they are. Just as you are human and not a cat, you are female or male. That's your position in nature. That's how we give names to things. A trans is NOT a gender but simply a behavior or state of mind. Did you ever see a transsexual cat? No.

You clearly have not much experience with cats either ;-)

 

[dialacina]

crise[/url]":1s74brfe]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Menopausal women? Infertile men? What are they then?

 

[crise]

dialacina[/url]":156m03eh]

crise[/url]":156m03eh]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Menopausal women? Infertile men? What are they then?

really?

 

[dialacina]

crise[/url]":110aazqb]

dialacina[/url]":110aazqb]

crise[/url]":110aazqb]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Menopausal women? Infertile men? What are they then?

really?

Yes, really.

"A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female."

Infertile men and women don't fit that description by definition.

 

[crise]

dialacina[/url]":2zbo7pdm]

crise[/url]":2zbo7pdm]

dialacina[/url]":2zbo7pdm]

crise[/url]":2zbo7pdm]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Menopausal women? Infertile men? What are they then?

really?

Yes, really.

"A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female."

Infertile men and women don't fit that description by definition.

Is a broken car no car? And they do have the organs to produce.. It's just not functioning.

 

[dialacina]

crise[/url]":1c89h5y9]

dialacina[/url]":1c89h5y9]

crise[/url]":1c89h5y9]

dialacina[/url]":1c89h5y9]

crise[/url]":1c89h5y9]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

Menopausal women? Infertile men? What are they then?

really?

Yes, really.

"A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female."

Infertile men and women don't fit that description by definition.

Is a broken car no car? And they do have the organs to produce.. It's just not functioning.

Well since you want to play the pedantry game, you used the present tense, and didn't say "possess the organs to produce sperm/eggs." So now you've fundamentally changed the definition you supplied.

But going by your new definition...what about men born with testicular agenesis? Women who have had an oophorectomy? Etc.

I mean if you really want to play the sex is gender and sex is fixed in parts and functionality game...I can do this all day. And you'll always be incorrect.

 

[looselycoupled]

crise[/url]":1eqo4lwl]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

While I can understand the desire to want to have such a binary, simple view of nature, it is just not the case at all. Even ignoring all of the complexities of biology that exists outside the animal kingdom, there is enormous variability in humans.

Lets go back to highschool biology. Males have 'XY' sex chromosomes and females have 'XX', remember? Well, that is the typical case... You should go ahead and google hermaphroditism, intersex, or ambiguous gender. Here is just a sampling of conditions that can occur:

1) Klinefelters: a syndrome wherein the individual has 'XXY' chromsomes. They usually appear to be male with male genitalia but will have less muscle mass, bigger hips, some amount of breast enlargement and other symptoms.

2) 47,XXY: a syndrome similar to Klinefelters where the individual has 'XXY' sex chromosomes. While many identify as male like Klinefelters, many others take female hormones and identify as female. Still others are "intersex" who don't "feel" like a particular gender.

3) Androgen Insensitivity: a syndrome which causes the testosterone receptor to malfunction. Individuals will normal male 'XY' sex chromosomes, but fall on a spectrum from appearing like a normal male with male genitalia all the way to appearing like a woman and having female genitalia despite the male chromosomes.

4) Congenital adrenal hyperplasia: family of recessive syndrome resulting from mutations of certain genes. This can cause genetic 'XX' females to have ambiguous genitalia or testosterone-affected over-virilized genitalia. It can also cause male secondary sexual characteristics to appear in genetic females.

5) Persistent Müllerian duct: a syndrome characterized by genetic males which develop a uterus, partial vagina, or other female sex organs. This may or may not be combined with undescended or absent testicles.

6) Genetic Chimeras: syndrome in which an individual has two sets of DNA... In certain cases one can be genetically male 'XY' and the other genetically female 'XX'.

 

[greenbobb]

looselycoupled[/url]":3bvt0od2]

crise[/url]":3bvt0od2]This is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to with their body whatever they want in my opinion, or have sex with who cares, but changing gender by definition is just not possible.

A body that produces sperm is a male, a body that produces eggs is a female. And even if you attach a dick or cut off the dick and grow boobs you still remain what you are. And they should accept that.

While I can understand the desire to want to have such a binary, simple view of nature, it is just not the case at all. Even ignoring all of the complexities of biology that exists outside the animal kingdom, there is enormous variability in humans.

Lets go back to highschool biology. Males have 'XY' sex chromosomes and females have 'XX', remember? Well, that is the typical case... You should go ahead and google hermaphroditism, intersex, or ambiguous gender. Here is just a sampling of conditions that can occur:

1) Klinefelters: a syndrome wherein the individual has 'XXY' chromsomes. They usually appear to be male with male genitalia but will have less muscle mass, bigger hips, some amount of breast enlargement and other symptoms.

2) 47,XXY: a syndrome similar to Klinefelters where the individual has 'XXY' sex chromosomes. While many identify as male like Klinefelters, many others take female hormones and identify as female. Still others are "intersex" who don't "feel" like a particular gender.

3) Androgen Insensitivity: a syndrome which causes the testosterone receptor to malfunction. Individuals will normal male 'XY' sex chromosomes, but fall on a spectrum from appearing like a normal male with male genitalia all the way to appearing like a woman and having female genitalia despite the male chromosomes.

4) Congenital adrenal hyperplasia: family of recessive syndrome resulting from mutations of certain genes. This can cause genetic 'XX' females to have ambiguous genitalia or testosterone-affected over-virilized genitalia. It can also cause male secondary sexual characteristics to appear in genetic females.

5) Persistent Müllerian duct: a syndrome characterized by genetic males which develop a uterus, partial vagina, or other female sex organs. This may or may not be combined with undescended or absent testicles.

6) Genetic Chimeras: syndrome in which an individual has two sets of DNA... In certain cases one can be genetically male 'XY' and the other genetically female 'XX'.

Here are some statistics on most of these conditions. http://www.gender.org.uk/about/04embryo/48_stats.htm

Most of them are pretty rare, but maybe not as rare as some people would think. This rather short little blurb mentioned that combined any given individual has about as much chance of being born with one of these as they do of being born with Downs syndrome or cleft palate. Personally, I consider that to be really significant.

I haven't yet compared that to any statistics for people who consider themselves LGBT. These conditions probably have the most relevance to the B and T...?