Elon Musk counts the cost of his four-month blitz through US government

graylshaped

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Doge agents being “onboarded” into various agencies and departments bears a lot of similarity to the political officers and commissars that permeated the Communist-Leninist-Stalinized Soviet Union. Probably the same sorts of actors.
All per Project 2025. Replace competent career professionals with loyalists.
 
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No, and people downvoting you are pathetic. Enough of this "wishing violence on anyone for anyone reason is some mortal horrible sin!"

We wouldn't have to wish death on him if he and his billionaire friends didn't intentionally damage and stack the courts making it impossible to hold them accountable through any normal means.

The only way Elon or any other of the mega rich will be brought to justice is by vigilante.

It was THEIR CHOICES that led to this. Brian Thompson spent many years of his life actively supporting a party that wants to overthrow democracy. He spent his life intentionally hurting others for his own profit. He killed by the hundreds of thousands. He was a serial killer. Him getting two bullets in the spine was justice because ALL OTHER AVENUES WERE CLOSED OFF.

History will NOT see this with the moral "ambiguity" that our nullified, weak sensibilities see it as now.

No one has a problem with the idea of going back in time and killing Hitler. Only "what if there were unintended consequences?" there's absolutely no care for his life. Many people are even fine with the idea of smashing the head of baby Hitler.

Do we really think history will see Musk any differently? He is a serial killer. Do not pretend his life has value or is worth defending.

Those folk are probably the same people who asked why Colonial America couldn't negotiate with the British empire to become independent, rather than fighting a whole war for independence. They did try.

As much as some of us loathe the ways of Luigi Mangione, there were definitely reasons why people cheered him, and continue supporting him.
 
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graylshaped

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Those folk are probably the same people who asked why Colonial America couldn't negotiate with the British empire to become independent, rather than fighting a whole war for independence. They did try.

As much as some of us loathe the ways of Luigi Mangione, there were definitely reasons why people cheered him, and continue supporting him.
People find reasons to justify all types of behavior. That makes neither the acts nor excusing them appropriate.
 
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People find reasons to justify all types of behavior. That makes neither the acts nor excusing them appropriate.
And then there's...war. The Luigi thing reminds of the whole gun rights and protection from bad government. And yet here we are with bad actors still doing their thing on all fronts including healthcare.
 
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barich

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People find reasons to justify all types of behavior. That makes neither the acts nor excusing them appropriate.

I’ve got mixed feelings on the whole thing, honestly. I don’t ordinarily approve of vigilante justice, but how long can failure at change through the proper channels persist before it becomes more common? Injustice always eventually turns to bloodshed if it’s not righted. Why was that okay historically but it’s not now? It’s easy to say that things aren’t as bad now as they were in, say, the revolutionary war era, but that’s easy when you personally live a relatively comfortable life. People whose family members died due to denied procedures, or who are facing bankruptcy, even with health insurance that should have covered their care, might feel rather differently. Keep in mind that many of the causes of the American Revolution were merely economic.

I certainly feel sorrier for the victims of UnitedHealthcare than I do the victim of Luigi Mangione.
 
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M1k3-

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Nope, not under US law. Treason only consists of fighting alongside the enemy or otherwise helping an enemy that is engaged in war against the U.S. No war, no treason.

There are lots of crimes other than treason though.
No, it's not. Treason is the only specific crime detailed in the Constitution, and it's very clear and specific:

Section 3 Treason Clause 1 Meaning. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

You would never get a conviction for treason in any US court for these actions, full stop. It doesn't meet the definition, and meeting the specific requirements for conviction is a very high bar.

You can call Musk a traitor and I wouldn't disagree, but when it comes to the law that's a very specific thing, different from its broader common usage, and deliberately so. The Constitution was written by people with direct personal knowledge of government abuse through accusation, after all, and wanted to prevent similar abuses in their new country.
Huh, I would have thought that Trump allowing a foreign national to siphon information to Russia would be treason. I guess since the U.S. hasn't actually declared war with Russia, it's ok? Even though Russia is at war with an ally of the U.S.
 
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SixDegrees

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Huh, I would have thought that Trump allowing a foreign national to siphon information to Russia would be treason. I guess since the U.S. hasn't actually declared war with Russia, it's ok? Even though Russia is at war with an ally of the U.S.
It doesn't make it OK. But it's not treason under the law.
 
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numerobis

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Huh, I would have thought that Trump allowing a foreign national to siphon information to Russia would be treason. I guess since the U.S. hasn't actually declared war with Russia, it's ok? Even though Russia is at war with an ally of the U.S.
There’s been almost no convictions for treason in US history. It’s always something else. Eg not a single treason charge during the Cold War, and only one so far in the never-ending global war on terror (no conviction though, due to a U.S. drone attack on the accused).

Of course these days crime is straight up legal, so none of this much matters.
 
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I rather thought that DOGE ($2T) and tariffs ($10T) were no more than justification for Trump's 'big, beautiful' tax cut bill, which was expected to add $Ts to national debt. Important to note that these schemes didn't actually have to deliver anything like what was promised - they just had to provide cover for the tax cuts, with Trump/GOP providing the necessary lies and bullshit to justify the spend.

Markets will find him out, of course.
 
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graylshaped

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I rather thought that DOGE ($2T) and tariffs ($10T) were no more than justification for Trump's 'big, beautiful' tax cut bill, which was expected to add $Ts to national debt. Important to note that these schemes didn't actually have to deliver anything like what was promised - they just had to provide cover for the tax cuts, with Trump/GOP providing the necessary lies and bullshit to justify the spend.

Markets will find him out, of course.
The tax cuts are a fig leaf. This is Norquistian governmental dismantlement as Job One.
 
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Yes, but it does not follow that the people suffering under those hardships will properly place the blame on Musk and/or Trump.
For the last 50 years they've proven they keep voting for their own hardship by voting to re-elect Republicans harder. Then they get mad that their children when they grow up figure out what's going on, and move to blue states and blue cities for the economic prospects, and vote Republican again because "Dems are brainwashing my children and they don't talk to me anymore." There's no helping these people.
 
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I do not think that he was like the others. I am confident that Captain Smith could have taken any ship in the world against that iceberg, and still have lost. The code called for flooding of two watertight compartments, Titanic was built to withstand five. But Captain Smith managed to do in six.
Your point is well taken, and I agree that Captain Smith deserves most of the blame. However, can you point out an example of a device designer taking as many folks with him when his device succumbs?
 
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It is weird to realize how much echo chamber bullshit these guys actually wind up believing for real.

The Speaker of the House was going on today about how the angry town halls lately are filled with the usual paid actors, and thus don't reflect actual constituent perspectives. And there's never been any material evidence of "crisis actors" or anything. But hear the same lie for enough years, and I people start to believe it. Even those who made up the lie in the first place.
The flip happened with the Tea Party takeover of the Republican party. Before that, the politicians knew they were lying to the voters but knew they were serving their donors so justified it. When the Tea Party started knocking out incumbents, that's when the real problems began because the people being elected were the constituents being lied to for decades. Those people believe the lies and think they weren't always lies.
 
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Yeah. The statues didn't change. And the POTUS can't pardon a corporation. As long as stuff has a 4+ year statue of limitations, there's going to be lots to prosecute, and in the hands of a massively empowered executive branch very motivated to make sure this never happens again.

I ask conservatives "you're saying these were presidential powers Obama and Biden should have used, and President Ocasio-Cortez should use?" They generally reveal not having thought through stuff at all, or confidence that we won't have another free and fair election in this country.

They clearly haven't realized how people who are fighting for the rule of law would fight to restore it if it has stopped existing.
Oh, they've thought it through and it's much simpler than you note. They're going on the confidence that Democrats haven't had a spine since Reagan, and thus far have shown no signs of growing one anytime soon.
 
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If that’s not fair use then nothing is.

It also leaves you vulnerable to the tweets being edited or deleted.

Linking is indeed good etiquette. Having an immutable (ie under your control) copy is good curatorial practice.
Especially deleted. I've found many a Buzzfeed listicle that no longer functionally exists because everything it discusses no longer exists and they only linked rather than screenshotted. Local news stories linked on Wikipedia no longer exist either because the parent company decided hosting text articles from 10 years ago takes up too many kilobytes on their server. You should always have a copy of what you are referencing to prevent the history being lost or edited.
 
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Especially deleted. I've found many a Buzzfeed listicle that no longer functionally exists because everything it discusses no longer exists and they only linked rather than screenshotted. Local news stories linked on Wikipedia no longer exist either because the parent company decided hosting text articles from 10 years ago takes up too many kilobytes on their server. You should always have a copy of what you are referencing to prevent the history being lost or edited.
Deposit into the internet archives and everyone benefits.
 
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launcap

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Well, I'm sure we'll still see lots of DOGE-style assaults on the bureaucracy...

Ironically, the poison toad ( AKA Nigel Farage) wants to try DOGE-type tactics at a county council that his toadies 'control' (Kent County Council).

They are about to run into reality - UK politics are nothing like US politics and his hit team won't have any of the access that the DOGE skript kiddies have.

Plus we have strong information governance laws. I forsee a wailing and gnashing of teeth coming from Reform UK headquarters along with a side order of sackings when they can't carry out their Dear Leaders whims.

I hope so anyway.
 
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Aurich

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Especially deleted. I've found many a Buzzfeed listicle that no longer functionally exists because everything it discusses no longer exists and they only linked rather than screenshotted. Local news stories linked on Wikipedia no longer exist either because the parent company decided hosting text articles from 10 years ago takes up too many kilobytes on their server. You should always have a copy of what you are referencing to prevent the history being lost or edited.
Totally reasonable and valid points.

But the reality of the legal landscape is just more complicated than that for us. I linked that piece explaining the logic.

Think of this way: if you take a photo, and post it on your blog, you do not give up the rights to your photo. We can't just take it and use it "because it was on the internet" right? Being a news site doesn't give us any special right to trample your rights. Fair use isn't a magic do whatever you want card.

None of that changes if you post it to social media. Same things still apply. We can't just take what people put up. A screenshot is still taking it, legally speaking.

But, we can embed it, because the EULA that comes with posting to that social account allows for those embeds.

Yes, the embed could be deleted. But we could also be hit with asking for something we don't have the copyright to removed, and possibly also need to settle monetarily for it.
 
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alisonken1

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Personally, I hope Musk goes bankrupt, he of all people deserves it - there is hardly a more pathetic parody of a human being than him 🤬
Bankruptcy isn't a punishment for the wealthy. It's how they weasel out of financial responsibility when they need to free up and protect their cash.

See also: Donald Trump and his many bankruptcies.
That's what - Chapter 11?

Need to look/hope for Chapter 7. But doubtful with the way things are working out.
 
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