Elon Musk and Tesla ignored Autopilot’s fatal flaws, judge says evidence shows
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
What level of punitive damages is likely in this case? Company destroying levels?
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Musk is the luckiest whiniest brat in the world. He'll weasel his way out of this too
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It needs to be in the billions for Tesla and the tens of billions for Musk. He's per the article "the de facto leader of autopilot" and should therefore take the brunt of the fees. And it needs to be in the billions to make a point, otherwise it's just the cost of doing business. Musk has shown he has no regard for human life, so he needs to pay.
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An automated driving system that covers 99.9% of cases but requires a driver to remain aware and intervene manually at the last moment continues to be a terrible idea, no matter what click-wrap conditions they sign off on when they take the wheel. Humans are just not built that way. Given nothing to do for extended periods of time our minds will wander, or we will fall asleep. The system will either need to require enough interaction from us to keep us awake and alert or be better than the best human driver in all conceivable scenarios. A nearly fool-proof solution isn’t good enough.
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Seeing how Tesla's crazy valuation is tightly tied to the bullshit autopilot, let's hope that the house of cards will finally crumble to the floor.
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Man, you're harsh on mush... He seems to care a lot about Nazis, white supremacists and other disgusting people.
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Request from non-USAian: What part of of the trial is this? It reads like the judge is making a finding, for good or bad, but it's not the trial?
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VelvetGlove
Ars Tribunus Militum
The trolley problem does seem to have application in real life after all. Though it's a weaker version than the original:
"The trolley will keep running over people unless the trolley management company spends money to make safety changes. Should they company make these changes, despite reduced profits?"
"The trolley will keep running over people unless the trolley management company spends money to make safety changes. Should they company make these changes, despite reduced profits?"
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My understanding is that Tesla filed a motion for summary dismissal based on some legal nonsense about them not being responsible for what drivers do (because the car owners agree to terms they typically don't actually read when they buy the car). Since the issue was with the marketing of the vehicle and the expectations of the buyers, the judge looked at the evidence to see if that applied, and ruled that Musk could not have NOT known he was lying in his marketing.
That allows the lawsuit to proceed on the LIKELY merits that the plaintiffs have a valid case.
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Pre-trial by the sounds of it. Once the initial complaint has been filed, there's a period where both sides can submit motions related to the suit such as summary dismissal, what evidence can be admitted, and who should be required to disclose what documents/transcripts/emails as part of discovery. I believe the intent is to narrow the scope of the trial to keep things manageable once it actually ends up in court.
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Destroying both Musk and Tesla in one verdict as a punitive measure is not likely. However, a verdict in the millions with a finding of deliberate disregard for human life and
"autopilot" claims as a sham might turn the market perception of Tesla from an exciting tech company to an overpriced car manufacturer. Along with rising competition, this could achieve the same result, but more slowly.
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With the pending Cybertruck disaster and the enormous problem his politics represents, it's hard to see what the Tesla Board gains by tolerating Elon. The sooner they fire him, the sooner they can initiate clawback proceedings to recover his ill-gotten bonuses.
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I think it would be more likely that Musk would pull the "they're out to get me card" (which he already plays every other time he gets into trouble) and his sycophants will eat it up as usual. I don't think enough of the normal population will give a shit.
But hey, maybe it'll actually be big news and Tesla will face some repercussion for subjecting us to their awful public beta test.
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You know what they say, regulations are written in blood. :/Didn't we already run this scenario with car seat belts?
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And? What are we supposed to take away from a two year old article from a biased website?
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And this is the fundamental problem with all attempts at fully automated driving systems. Until they're genuinely better than any human could be at all aspects of driving, I believe we're going to be sitting at basically current driver-assist technologies. And honestly, what we would really be talking about is a true Artificial General Intelligence. That's the only thing that's going to be able to effectively evaluate any conceivable driving scenario. Would anybody but the stupid rich waste the money something like that is almost certainly going to cost on being a mere chauffeur? I don't seriously expect the hoi polloi to have access to true self-driving general transportation in any of our lifetimes.
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So a Tesla supporter website complains that the expert witness that gave evidence for the plaintiff suing Tesla is biased against Tesla.
What a surprise!
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Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for what appears to be an honest question, but it’s a civil proceeding. Nobody’s going to jail for this.
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It’s sounding more and more like People’s Democratic Tesla, inc. A few have to be sacrificed for the good of the many.
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OK, so more precisely, he has hand-picked the board to stuff it with family and friends, and he has a lot of power over their wealth.
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VelvetGlove
Ars Tribunus Militum
There are good ways to test (using trained safety drivers, etc.) and bad ways to test (let the entire customer base be the beta testers). Proper testing takes a little longer, but kills fewer people.
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