Doxing victim Zoe Quinn launches online “anti-harassment task force”

Service once tipped police a week ahead. Cops' memo: "Knock with your hand, not your boot."

Read the whole story

 

[Outrider/Ronin]

Edit: Weird self-quoting double post.

 

[Snarky Robot]

0bliv!on[/url]":13ov87z7]
But this isn't reporting on the viewpoint of either side. This is reporting on the SAME ACTIONS taken by both sides.

So if "Cute Childress Wildlife Fund" and "White Supremacists for Forced Abortion of Minorities" both hold a public bake sale to rescue kittens, you expect both to be covered equally, with zero interpretation as to which bake sale is more worthy of being reported on?

Jesus, how can ANY news organization have integrity, if that's the case?

"Lots of people died today of heart attacks. Why didn't you cover my Aunt Linda as much as you did the President of Madeupistan?"

 

[rafial]

I just want to say I'm glad to see a constructive response to the mob mentality that has been roaming the internet recently. This article inspired me to go contribute to Zoe Quinn's Patreon, as I'd like to see more things like this going on. Way to go, Zoe Cool!

 

[Outrider/Ronin]

0bliv!on[/url]"sidy9nk]

But this isn't reporting on the viewpoint of either side. This is reporting on the SAME ACTIONS taken by both sides.

Using your analogy, it's like publicising that climate scientists have donated $1,000,000-00 to a charity and not publicising that climate change deniers have made the same donation to the same charity.

And criticising or approving of something, not on the merits of that thing by because of who's behind it, is obviously ad hom. I'm not saying Ars can't be biased. I'm just calling it out for being so.

That isn't what an ad hominem is.

It's only an ad hominem if the aspect of the person is irrelevant to the message/argument at hand.

 

[Snarky Robot]

igor.levicki[/url]":xklwtai7]

Crash Override stated via Twitter that their efforts have additionally "prevented several potentially deadly swatting...

Hmm... until someone really follows up on a threat just to fuck them over -- then they are going to be responsible for some deaths.

So, by that definition of "responsibility", police are to blame for crimes done to embarrass them? If I steal from a house across the street from a police station just to fuck over the police, the police are responsible for that theft, not me?

That seems... odd.

 

[exploder]

In response to a few similar replies, I've edited my orginal "it's sad they still have to do these searches" post.

Solomonoff's Secret[/url]":2ctqy0gh]
True, but what's to stop a thief from warning the police not to respond to a house that (s)he plans to later rob? The police would need to exercise discretion to determine whether the warning is legit.

Lurkmaster423[/url]":2ctqy0gh]
The searches need to be reasonable, but I understand why they would need to happen even if warned about a bogus claim. Let's say you warned the cops about something a week in advance, and then it actually happened.

But such responses need to not be over the top and well executed.

marsilies[/url]":2ctqy0gh]
They probably need to investigate every claim. Otherwise, terrorists or criminals would call the police and say, "I'm being harassed online, and I may become the target of false tips," and then proceed along with their criminal/terrorist activities safe in the knowledge that the police will not investigate any tips they receive.

evan_s[/url]":2ctqy0gh]
Exactly. A criminal can use your process against you. Fake up some online stuff saying that someone was going to call in a fake tip to cover real criminal activity.

Don't worry if my neighbors call in complaining I'm running a meth lab because I'm going to tell you ahead of time that someone is going to falsely claim I'm running a meth lab.

Now obviously you can say there is a difference between an anonymous online tip and a neighbor calling in a tip but it illustrates the point. There are certain things you just have to treat as being a real threat even when you are 99% sure they aren't because of the consequences if you are wrong about it. It's the same reason they'll evacuate a building for a bomb threat even if there have been several fake bomb threats recently and they are pretty sure it's another fake.

rick*d[/url]":2ctqy0gh]
I would expect the police to investigate every complaint or threat, otherwise the "boy who cried wolf" situation. Or if someone (e.g., ex with a restraining order) were planning something nefarious they could troll the DOX sites to get false warning of a false attack so that the cops would then ignore the call about the real attack. So the cops are going to come investigate, but they're going to "knock with their hands, not with their boots". Seems a totally reasonable response to me.

Here is my reply:

EDIT: To all those responding "but then why can't a criminal call a week ahead to prevent a search."

Of course, they can, but if you think that has a lot of force, then answer me honestly, what criminal wants the attention? If a criminal is so secure they can withstand any police attention at all, then they are already NOT worried their neighbors will see anything, because they already made sure it won't happen. Offer anyone reporting these impending bogus swatting searches the opportunity to have a couple of normal officers come over for a light-weight, less invasive inspection ahead of the incident. With a preliminary check in the clear, when the expected swatting call comes in, the cops can have high confidence they don't need to go in boots first, because they have established full cooperation with the victims. It's not full protection, but in many cases it might easily preclude an actual full blown swatting event, and the accompanying invasive search.

 

[PCLoving]

[trollhide]

Marcos2247[/url]":7t6ck6ry]

mattand[/url]":7t6ck6ry]

Marcos2247[/url]":7t6ck6ry]

mattand[/url]":7t6ck6ry]There's nothing good associated with Gamergate and the MRA movement. You can't demonize a movement that already is fairly awful to start with.

So we're lumping in MRM with Gamergate now?

Men's rights is a valid issue.

Stuff like "You shouldn't hit girls." - "No, you shouldn't hit people. Most men don't like to be hit either."

Or drafting young men to send them to war.

Aaannd we're off...

Off to where?

Are you saying (white) men don't have issues worth talking about?

I'm all for feminism (although I'd like find a word not ending in -ism for it), equal participation. I have nothing against Zoe Quinn, I find that anti-harassment task-force a nice idea, I don't use words like fag in online chat.

But you're saying Men's rights issues have nothing good associated with them. How about cirumcision? That's an MRI. Okay, maybe we can make it a minority issue by focussing on the jews first...

I'm sorry that I as a white man have issues too. And saying "Doesn't matter, women have it worse" is like countering a complaint about doxxing with #firstworldproblems.

I too am a white man and I can wholeheartedly say no gives a fuck about your issues and you are acting like a douchebag. Decrepit old white men have had control of this country since its inception. White men are not under attack nor do they have any place telling others how they should feel in regards to being marginalized or trivialized. However, every damned day some geriatric white man is actively contemplating what latest law they should implement regulating a women's body.

And stop crying about being circumcised, my purple headed warrior is just fine and I'm sure your's is too.[/trollhide]

 

[Peevester]

0bliv!on[/url]":q2iqck4a]

noops[/url]":q2iqck4a]

ghost55[/url]":q2iqck4a]

Modern Major General Thanatos[/url]":q2iqck4a]This is totally zero cool.

Yeah. I mean I swear I remembered her being involved with doxing someone a few months back...

I swear I saw some screencaps with red lines drawn with mspaint that totally proves this 100%.

From memory she didn't personally doxx anyone, just retweeted one of her supporters who did doxx a Gamergate figure.

If you redefine "dox" to mean "posted a link to a person's professional website, who wasn't anonymous in the first place". This is the Mike Cernovich crap. Mr. Cernovich used his home as his business address. And the information was public (i.e. his actual website), NOT some pastebin posting of information not easily obtainable. And it wasn't Quinn who did any of that, it was someone else, and Quinn (briefly) linked to the article.

AND she apologized, AND both parties took down the info within hours. Putting this on par with the toxic shit done to women in the name of GG, it makes you sick to even hear it brought up.

noops[/url]":q2iqck4a]

0bliv!on[/url]":q2iqck4a]

cateye[/url]":q2iqck4a]

Seany[/url]":q2iqck4a]Why do people keep publicizing this persons crap? Ars should take a cue from Linus and promote stuff based on merit. which Quinn clearly has none of.

So you believe helping to thwart doxing/swatting victims has no merit? Or do you discount it because it's Quinn? Oops.

Probably because Reddit's KotakuinAction has had something similar for a while now trawling through Twitter to head off trolls and noone's reported on that. But that's partially due to Zoe & Co having a better PR department too.

I'd love to see what KotakuInAction has done in this capacity.

Exactly what they usually do - post up links to GG articles so the troll brigade can stomp in, and take a couple days for the site's immune system (i.e. actual readers) to expel them.

Note how the voting goes in comments after one of these is posted - the first troll in the thread gets a ton of upvotes, FOR A WHILE, then slowly gets put in the dumper as the actual readership sees and reacts to the overdose of crap.

 

[Peevester]

Marcos2247[/url]":ubew88nz]

mattand[/url]":ubew88nz]

Marcos2247[/url]":ubew88nz]

mattand[/url]":ubew88nz]There's nothing good associated with Gamergate and the MRA movement. You can't demonize a movement that already is fairly awful to start with.

So we're lumping in MRM with Gamergate now?

Men's rights is a valid issue.

Stuff like "You shouldn't hit girls." - "No, you shouldn't hit people. Most men don't like to be hit either."

Or drafting young men to send them to war.

Aaannd we're off...

Off to where?

Are you saying (white) men don't have issues worth talking about?

In terms of gender issues? Frankly, not a hell of a lot. I certainly have absolutely no desire for the MRA to speak in my name.

The only significant men's issue I can think of is child custody. There definitely is a bad double standard there. So fix that, and shut up about the rest of it please, m'kay?

Edit: OK, that was too glib, I apologize. Gay and Trans men have almost all of the same issues that women do, and certainly they should be defended against that. It doesn't get nearly the attention it needs among men's rights advocates though, which is a huge shame.

 

[Alfonse]

PCLoving[/url]":3rynunil]

Marcos2247[/url]":3rynunil]

mattand[/url]":3rynunil]

Marcos2247[/url]":3rynunil]

mattand[/url]":3rynunil]There's nothing good associated with Gamergate and the MRA movement. You can't demonize a movement that already is fairly awful to start with.

So we're lumping in MRM with Gamergate now?

Men's rights is a valid issue.

Stuff like "You shouldn't hit girls." - "No, you shouldn't hit people. Most men don't like to be hit either."

Or drafting young men to send them to war.

Aaannd we're off...

Off to where?

Are you saying (white) men don't have issues worth talking about?

I'm all for feminism (although I'd like find a word not ending in -ism for it), equal participation. I have nothing against Zoe Quinn, I find that anti-harassment task-force a nice idea, I don't use words like fag in online chat.

But you're saying Men's rights issues have nothing good associated with them. How about cirumcision? That's an MRI. Okay, maybe we can make it a minority issue by focussing on the jews first...

I'm sorry that I as a white man have issues too. And saying "Doesn't matter, women have it worse" is like countering a complaint about doxxing with #firstworldproblems.

I too am a white man and I can wholeheartedly say no gives a fuck about your issues and you are acting like a douchebag. Decrepit old white men have had control of this country since its inception. White men are not under attack nor do they have any place telling others how they should feel in regards to being marginalized or trivialized. However, every damned day some geriatric white man is actively contemplating what latest law they should implement regulating a women's body.

And stop crying about being circumcised, my purple headed warrior is just fine and I'm sure your's is too.

I hate to continue this derailment, but this is complete bullshit.

White men absolutely have the same right to protest issues that affect them negatively as everyone else. Certainly, being born a white male does mean you get certain advantages. But that doesn't mean you somehow forfeit the same rights as everyone else.

You may not support these issues or even agree that they are issues in the first place. But they absolutely have the right to bring them up.

In an appropriate discussion topic, of course. Which this isn't.

 

[Alfonse]

0bliv!on[/url]":28fsepdc]

Alfonse[/url]":28fsepdc]

s73v3r[/url]":28fsepdc]

mattand[/url]":28fsepdc]

Wow. You're really going to go with Magic Balance Fairy (aka, "Every opinion is valid") as your take on this.

We've seen both sides engage in the exact same stuff. Both sides have engaged in doxxing. I don't care who does it, or why you do it, doxxing is wrong, full stop. And once you start engaging in doxxing and other related behaviors, you lose the high road, and most people are going to see your side just as bad as the side you claim are the bad guys.

Just because one side doesn't have the highest moral standing, it's important to recognize the fact that, for every negative act on the anti-GamerGate side, there have been 3 on the GamerGate side. Not to mention, we all know which side it was that started this whole stupid bullshit to begin with.

The one who fired the first shot is the aggressor; all the side is doing is defending themselves. Sometimes, people do bad things when defending themselves, but at the end of the day, they're doing it to defend themselves.

So please don't expect me to feel sorry for GamerGate when some of the anti-side uses their own horrible tactics against them. Oh, it's still wrong. But I'm not going to feel too sorry for them. Just like I'm against the death penalty, but I don't feel particularly sorry for the execution of some mass murderer.

That's, to put it bluntly, bullshit. Unless the people being doxxed were the ones doing the doxxing, all you're doing by this kind of 'defence' is adding more innocent victims.

Such is the unfairness of war: the innocent are most often the hardest hit. But guess who didn't start that war.

0bliv!on[/url]":28fsepdc]

tjones2[/url]":28fsepdc]

0bliv!on[/url]":28fsepdc]
That's, to put it bluntly, bullshit. Unless the people being doxxed were the ones doing the doxxing, all you're doing by this kind of 'defence' is adding more innocent victims.

I have little sympathy for someone for someone who joins a movement which regularly uses doxing and harassment (and that goes for both the GGers and the members of some of the more toxic elements of the internet feminist community) . Lie with dogs, get fleas.

I don't have any sympathy for them either. But I object to people condemning the acts of one group while defending the same actions of the other. That's hypocrisy of the highest order.

At no time did anyone defend those actions. Not even me. I specifically said that they were wrong.

But just because two people are wrong doesn't mean one isn't more wrong. Two people in a fight both throw punches. But one of them threw the first punch, and they're the one who's more wrong (all other things being equal).

 

[DrPizza]

0bliv!on[/url]":258cm5fz]

cateye[/url]":258cm5fz]

Seany[/url]":258cm5fz]Why do people keep publicizing this persons crap? Ars should take a cue from Linus and promote stuff based on merit. which Quinn clearly has none of.

So you believe helping to thwart doxing/swatting victims has no merit? Or do you discount it because it's Quinn? Oops.

Probably because Reddit's KotakuinAction has had something similar for a while now trawling through Twitter to head off trolls and noone's reported on that. But that's partially due to Zoe & Co having a better PR department too.

Yeah, uh, the KiA Harassment Patrol didn't actually do that, which is probably something to do with why it wasn't reported on.

 

[StillGridlocked]

ty88[/url]":2ewzdaoq]I don't understand the concern with people phoning in their own meth lab, human slavery ring, etc. because like in this instance the police are still going to ask to search the premises and investigate to clear up whatever claim it was.

The knock and ask approach would only be when they don't really believe anything is going on.

If they took a meth lab claim seriously they would watch the place for awhile then get a no knock warrant and come in from every entrance/exit all at once with gear on. The days of Andy and Barney are long gone.

 

[adrianovaroli]

0bliv!on[/url]":1865d2xn]

those experts are "mostly former clients"

I'm going to really want to see the qualifications of those experts if they're "former clients" of something that's just started up...

Also, WHAT THE FUCK ARS - Why the hell do you have a direct link to her Patreon in your article?

Maybe they think it's a worthy cause to uphold. I mean, maybe you prefer to defend the free speech of pedophiles. Ok. There was a thread about that here, a few days ago.

 

[zbeeblebrox]

Quiet Desperation[/url]":2cmdyqo6]

mattand[/url]":2cmdyqo6]

ghost55[/url]":2cmdyqo6]

mattand[/url]":2cmdyqo6]

Solomonoff's Secret[/url]":2cmdyqo6]This thread gon' be good.

Seriously. The hordes of Gamergate mouth breathers and Men's Rights Advocate loons alone promise a shit show of ignorance beyond all mortal reckoning.

Both sides of this mess are a shitshow of ignorance beyond all all mortal reckoning. It's like watching Fox News and MSNBC engage in a twitter war.

Wow. You're really going to go with Magic Balance Fairy (aka, "Every opinion is valid") as your take on this.

I kinda think he was saying they're equally insane.

But they're clearly NOT equally insane, since one side makes its argument by psychotically swatting its opponents, and the other side responds by setting up a helpful service to protect victims of said harassment.

 

[adrianovaroli]

Fire the Great[/url]":1i7vci8w]

adrianovaroli[/url]":1i7vci8w]

0bliv!on[/url]":1i7vci8w]

those experts are "mostly former clients"

I'm going to really want to see the qualifications of those experts if they're "former clients" of something that's just started up...

Also, WHAT THE FUCK ARS - Why the hell do you have a direct link to her Patreon in your article?

Maybe they think it's a worthy cause to uphold. I mean, maybe you prefer to defend the free speech of pedophiles. Ok. There was a thread about that here, a few days ago.

What do you mean Zoey Quinn is a worthy case to uphold? Because the Patreon belongs to her, not the organization.

Ah, right. But I see no obvious ways to support CO directly. And she does makes games. Maybe you think she shouldn't?

 

[noops]

0bliv!on[/url]":2lu0e2i7]

DrPizza[/url]":2lu0e2i7]

0bliv!on[/url]":2lu0e2i7]

cateye[/url]":2lu0e2i7]

Seany[/url]":2lu0e2i7]Why do people keep publicizing this persons crap? Ars should take a cue from Linus and promote stuff based on merit. which Quinn clearly has none of.

So you believe helping to thwart doxing/swatting victims has no merit? Or do you discount it because it's Quinn? Oops.

Probably because Reddit's KotakuinAction has had something similar for a while now trawling through Twitter to head off trolls and noone's reported on that. But that's partially due to Zoe & Co having a better PR department too.

Yeah, uh, the KiA Harassment Patrol didn't actually do that, which is probably something to do with why it wasn't reported on.

Hi Peter, thanks for responding.

Again, I concede that Ars has editorial control over what it decides to report on and what not to report on, but I don't think even you'd deny that Ars coverage on the wider issue has been fairly one-sided. Even assuming that 90% of Gamergate is scum of the earth (and that may actually be fairly accurate), in the dozens of articles on the issue, there has not been a single article exploring their valid concerns. (And yes, that's a very simplistic way to analyse things, but for lack of better methodology). Similarly, I don't think anyone will assert that anti-Gamergate groups have been perfectly blameless or faultless in the whole issue, but I don't think there's been an article that's portrayed these groups negatively or critically. That's the bias which I object to, and I think which anyone wanting some semblance of fairness would object to, ideology aside.

In the same vein as Alfonse saying that doxxing from the anti-Gamergate side is partially justified (even if still wrong) due to it being done in defence after being attacked, forgive me for having sympathy for the "Gamers" who started the Gamergate group, despite its myriad of flaws, after being attacked by the wider media. And it's an attack that really hasn't stopped, even if the criticisms have become less hysterical and more evenly tempered.

Thanks for listening, and I'll no doubt still browse Ars as much as I used to; I might just steer clear of ones on this issue.

You've now moved from the 'actions of the harassment patrol' to 'the valid concerns of gamergate'. How about we just focus on the harassment patrol? What are their actions that deserve coverage?

And you think the gamers that started gamergate over the accusations of a jilted ex deserve some sympathy? Fuck them.

 

[adrianovaroli]

noops[/url]":33pswtsu]

0bliv!on[/url]":33pswtsu]

DrPizza[/url]":33pswtsu]

0bliv!on[/url]":33pswtsu]

cateye[/url]":33pswtsu]

Seany[/url]":33pswtsu]Why do people keep publicizing this persons crap? Ars should take a cue from Linus and promote stuff based on merit. which Quinn clearly has none of.

So you believe helping to thwart doxing/swatting victims has no merit? Or do you discount it because it's Quinn? Oops.

Probably because Reddit's KotakuinAction has had something similar for a while now trawling through Twitter to head off trolls and noone's reported on that. But that's partially due to Zoe & Co having a better PR department too.

Yeah, uh, the KiA Harassment Patrol didn't actually do that, which is probably something to do with why it wasn't reported on.

Hi Peter, thanks for responding.

Again, I concede that Ars has editorial control over what it decides to report on and what not to report on, but I don't think even you'd deny that Ars coverage on the wider issue has been fairly one-sided. Even assuming that 90% of Gamergate is scum of the earth (and that may actually be fairly accurate), in the dozens of articles on the issue, there has not been a single article exploring their valid concerns. (And yes, that's a very simplistic way to analyse things, but for lack of better methodology). Similarly, I don't think anyone will assert that anti-Gamergate groups have been perfectly blameless or faultless in the whole issue, but I don't think there's been an article that's portrayed these groups negatively or critically. That's the bias which I object to, and I think which anyone wanting some semblance of fairness would object to, ideology aside.

In the same vein as Alfonse saying that doxxing from the anti-Gamergate side is partially justified (even if still wrong) due to it being done in defence after being attacked, forgive me for having sympathy for the "Gamers" who started the Gamergate group, despite its myriad of flaws, after being attacked by the wider media. And it's an attack that really hasn't stopped, even if the criticisms have become less hysterical and more evenly tempered.

Thanks for listening, and I'll no doubt still browse Ars as much as I used to; I might just steer clear of ones on this issue.

You've now moved from the 'actions of the harassment patrol' to 'the valid concerns of gamergate'. How about we just focus on the harassment patrol? What are their actions that deserve coverage?

And you think the gamers that started gamergate over the accusations of a jilted ex deserve some sympathy? Fuck them.

Also, there are better ways to achieve stuff than bullying people so they do what you want. http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp, which GG loves to quote, specifically says journalists should "Deny favored treatment to advertisers, donors or any other special interests, and resist internal and external pressure to influence coverage." So GG is pushing journalists to act unethically. And GG seem to think that because they paid money to charity, they're good people. It doesn't work like that.

 

[DrPizza]

0bliv!on[/url]":3ssfaizo]Again, I concede that Ars has editorial control over what it decides to report on and what not to report on, but I don't think even you'd deny that Ars coverage on the wider issue has been fairly one-sided. Even assuming that 90% of Gamergate is scum of the earth (and that may actually be fairly accurate), in the dozens of articles on the issue, there has not been a single article exploring their valid concerns.

They have no valid concerns. Gamergate was constructed as a harassment campaign, and harassment is what gators do.

"But what about ethics in games journalism?" gators may cry. What about them? Gamergate has no interest in "ethics in games journalism" beyond using it as a pretext to attack people. There is no serious interest in "ethics in games journalism" from gators, which is why their biggest targets have been Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, and Anita Sarkeesian, not one of whom is a games journalist. The gator interest in ethics begins and ends in the gator's ability to use ethics to attack people.

In the same vein as Alfonse saying that doxxing from the anti-Gamergate side is partially justified (even if still wrong) due to it being done in defence after being attacked, forgive me for having sympathy for the "Gamers" who started the Gamergate group, despite its myriad of flaws, after being attacked by the wider media. And it's an attack that really hasn't stopped, even if the criticisms have become less hysterical and more evenly tempered.

Gamers weren't attacked. Assholes were attacked. They responded by being assholes.

 

[noops]

adrianovaroli[/url]":3lgdvxbe]
Also, there are better ways to achieve stuff than bullying people so they do what you want. http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp, which GG loves to quote, specifically says journalists should "Deny favored treatment to advertisers, donors or any other special interests, and resist internal and external pressure to influence coverage." So GG is pushing journalists to act unethically. And GG seem to think that because they paid money to charity, they're good people. It doesn't work like that.

And one of the biggest 'charities' they take credit for funding is The Fine Young Capitalists (note: not a charity).

 

[Gary Patterson]

0bliv!on[/url]":2wguaek4]forgive me for having sympathy for the "Gamers" who started the Gamergate group, despite its myriad of flaws, after being attacked by the wider media. And it's an attack that really hasn't stopped, even if the criticisms have become less hysterical and more evenly tempered.

That's not the story I remember about how GamerGate started, and I wasn't aware of the hysterical attacks by the wider media towards the GG crowd.

 

[Outrider/Ronin]

0bliv!on[/url]":yf29gdqo]

DrPizza[/url]":yf29gdqo]

0bliv!on[/url]":yf29gdqo]

cateye[/url]":yf29gdqo]

Seany[/url]":yf29gdqo]Why do people keep publicizing this persons crap? Ars should take a cue from Linus and promote stuff based on merit. which Quinn clearly has none of.

So you believe helping to thwart doxing/swatting victims has no merit? Or do you discount it because it's Quinn? Oops.

Probably because Reddit's KotakuinAction has had something similar for a while now trawling through Twitter to head off trolls and noone's reported on that. But that's partially due to Zoe & Co having a better PR department too.

Yeah, uh, the KiA Harassment Patrol didn't actually do that, which is probably something to do with why it wasn't reported on.

Hi Peter, thanks for responding.

Again, I concede that Ars has editorial control over what it decides to report on and what not to report on, but I don't think even you'd deny that Ars coverage on the wider issue has been fairly one-sided. Even assuming that 90% of Gamergate is scum of the earth (and that may actually be fairly accurate), in the dozens of articles on the issue, there has not been a single article exploring their valid concerns. (And yes, that's a very simplistic way to analyse things, but for lack of better methodology).

Valid concerns? Do you mean "Ethics in gaming journalism"?

There have been quite a few articles on Ars over the last few years about the troublesome issue of gaming websites that review AAA games produced by their biggest advertisers.

Other, smaller issues have also been covered (app store paid rankings, etc.).

Are there other valid concerns? Shadowboxing fictional oppressors doesn't count.

 

[adrianovaroli]

Sugoi-Senpai-Kun[/url]":1z4oip22]Good for her I guess, however, I still have no respect for her or people like her. Also, these people should know (as should everyone) that if you put yourself out there, especially on the internet, bad things ill be said about you. Doesn't matter if you're a man, woman, or a child. People need to be careful.

Going back to Quin, imo she's just a terrible person.

You didn't have to demonstrate your own point, you know.

 

[RFT]

Half a dozen blocks later, and the thread is almost readable. Almost.

 

[Basil Forthrightly]

MattEvansC3[/url]":3i90ry00]

Marcos2247[/url]":3i90ry00]

mattand[/url]":3i90ry00]

Marcos2247[/url]":3i90ry00]

mattand[/url]":3i90ry00]There's nothing good associated with Gamergate and the MRA movement. You can't demonize a movement that already is fairly awful to start with.

So we're lumping in MRM with Gamergate now?

Men's rights is a valid issue.

Stuff like "You shouldn't hit girls." - "No, you shouldn't hit people. Most men don't like to be hit either."

Or drafting young men to send them to war.

Aaannd we're off...

Off to where?

Are you saying (white) men don't have issues worth talking about?

I'm all for feminism (although I'd like find a word not ending in -ism for it), equal participation. I have nothing against Zoe Quinn, I find that anti-harassment task-force a nice idea, I don't use words like fag in online chat.

But you're saying Men's rights issues have nothing good associated with them. How about cirumcision? That's an MRI. Okay, maybe we can make it a minority issue by focussing on the jews first...

I'm sorry that I as a white man have issues too. And saying "Doesn't matter, women have it worse" is like countering a complaint about doxxing with #firstworldproblems.

As a white male I do have problems but as a white male I also have a greater amount of power to fix things.

The only real main male issue, particularly in the UK, is the high rates of depression related suicides in young males. Even then this is primarily a side effect of the erosion of the white male power base as the cultural depiction of a white male and his worth in society has not changed quickly enough. We push minorities to break their social constraints such as telling women they can be car mechanics but we don't broaden the WM perspective and tell ourselves its okay to be cleaners or house husbands.

Also circumcision is not a MRI. Women, especially in parts of Africa are forcefully circumcised.

Actually, if the UK is like the rest of the world, then more women attempt suicide than men, but more men succeed. Almost everywhere, men succeed in killing themselves between 2 and 10 times more than women.

Pretty much everyone thinks cultural factors account for most of the differences in attempt rates and success rates. While women have higher rates of diagnosed depression, men tend to choose more certain ways to attempt suicide, some of which they have somewhat easier access to.

In the US, the gender disparity in success rates has been pretty stable going back to the 1950s despite massive cultural change. I haven't heard of any good scientific studies yet explaining the recent spike in the UK in men's suicide rate, but I suspect a lot of it is a cultural shift in the choice of methods leading to higher success rates and less of it is a spike in attempt rates. But without data, that's just a wild guess.

 

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RFT[/url]":3c1io5z4]Half a dozen blocks later, and the thread is almost readable. Almost.

Insults and verbal abuse aside, I don't think creating your own echo chamber is conducive to anything.

I haven't blocked anyone, despite having, and voicing, what is apparently a very unpopular viewpoint on this issue.

 

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MattEvansC3[/url]":16sohza9]

Also circumcision is not a MRI. Women, especially in parts of Africa are forcefully circumcised.

Circumcision is still a MRI because it is widely regarded as acceptable, even desirable, in the United States. FGM is not. Doctors in the US know virtually nothing about the foreskin except how to cut it off, and have been known to forcibly retract the foreskin too early (which is a major cause of phimosis). And you get people in the US condemning FGM but advocating circumcision of boys because "otherwise you have to clean his foreskin three times a day and he'll constantly get it infected".

It's as bad as FGM but definitely a different issue.