Don’t supersize me: The case for small electric cars instead of big SUVs

Small cars are good for us but bad for business.

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[raxx7]

You have no problem mentioning Stellantis and Renaults small vehicles that don't exist, yet. Their track record of mass producing electric vehicles surely earned them that claim. But, sure. You'll believe it when you see it.

There are two Renault and a Stellantis vehicles in that top 10 (and and a bunch more outside the top 20).
They exist, they just don't sell them in the US.

 

[TonyJ588]

Our next two vehicles will be a plug-in Hybrid SUV and a full size ICE truck. Where I live is commonly -30 to -40 in the winter. The nearest large city (any city really) is 450 km distant with a 200 km drive to the nearest fill-up station. There are also many kms of gravel roads which small cars do not navigate very well in the summer let alone the winter. Until the system is built out, charging is as quick as filling and range is comparable a full on EV makes no sense in Northern Canada.

 

[Thorzdad]

I have to wonder if we might see some cities and places start to restrict to smaller types of vehicles. Like restricting it to sedans and 3 door vehicles?

Heh. Recently, when the city of Indianapolis tried to impose “no turn on red” rules on a few select downtown intersections, in order to make things a little safer for pedestrians, the republican state legislature quickly passed a law forbidding the city from doing it.

I can’t imagine anything as radical as limiting vehicle size in the city ever seeing the light of day here.

 

[kezeka]

I really miss having my old two door hatchback that I loved owning for 12 years but am currently stuck owning a larger car. In many ways I count my wife and I as fortunate for being tall but when it comes to packing an infant car seat and two tall adults into a car, even compact sedans won’t cut it, heck, I test drove a mid sized sedan last week that barely fit me in front of the car seat safely. Compact SUVs have substantially more leg room, particularly electric ones like the ioniq 5 but those are still large cars in my opinion coming from something the size of a mini Cooper. The mass also makes them less agile and less fun to drive but unfortunately I have to be able to actually sit safely in a car without my knees touching the dashboard.

As for range, I think 300 miles of highway range is key. Currently there are very few electric cars that can manage to get me round trip to the nearest national park that I love to drive to when I have a day off and there are still no electric fast chargers near the park. Beyond that, just earlier this week ARS published an article on the decrepit state of fast charger infrastructure in the US. You can have a small battery pack and no way to charge it for people who enjoy regularly driving to the outdoors.

I owned an electric car for less than a year. We went into it excited but between all of the problems with Tesla build quality, phantom braking, autopilot trying to kill me on the freeway, and the absolutely b******* range (i never saw anywhere near 300 miles on the freeway, I think the best we got was close to 200) - my wife and I decided to wait another few years before considering another electric in order for the manufacturing to improve along with the infrastructure.

As for small cars in general: I can’t wait until we get to forward facing car seats so I can get back into something smaller.

 

[Mechjaz]

I feel like people don't understand that you can RENT trucks and etc to haul shit and it's only a slight inconvenience for most people that haul stuff maybe once or twice a year...

Or if you're in the US, call on your truck owning friends to borrow their truck/help haul maybe one of the less than 10 things that will require a truck for the year

Ssshhhhhgggshhssh don't remind them, I'm over helping people with these godforsaken summertime moves. The heat index that day was 113° F. I packed spare shirts and a towel, and got a rash on my legs because my shorts were sweated through and stuck to me for hours.

On topic, I don't know where all this editorializing on Ars is coming from lately, but I like it. Wafer thin tires on giant wheels, raw deals from pharmaceutical companies, Western Digital/SanDisk sticking their heads snugly up their asses on quality control, ISP shenanigans. I don't know if it'll be enough to change things, but I appreciate these things that often surface in the comments getting front page attention. (While still having plenty of room for the regular tech/science/auto/culture coverage, of course)

 

[chaos215bar2]

… That's the kind of intellectually dishonest policy that makes people upset, like when the AM radio people say we should mandate it in cars because of emergency alerts.

I'm all for switching emergency broadcasts to FM, but unless we're going to mandate that change, why isn't it reasonable to mandate AM? It's not exactly a big expense to include in a car that already has FM radio.

I certainly don't want to find myself driving by a flashing alert sign in an area with poor cell reception in a car where I can't actually hear the alert message, and I'm not always going to be in a position to refuse to drive or even necessarily buy a car just because it doesn't have AM radio.

 

[O/Siris]

Driving on American roads and highways filled with SUVs barely paying more attention to the road than their phones, we got rid of our little car because it was terrifying. Being surrounded by heavy, swerving and veering vehicles who take over the outside lanes so they have one less lane to interrupt their cell phone use makes me want to buy a tank and start running over every vehicle on the highway.

I suspect that cities/towns may need to limit the size of vehicles on their streets for it to change at this point. Perhaps if the GOP finally collapses some sensible limitations could be achieved instead of letting things continue to evolve to all of us commuting in our own, private busses.

One experience versus another...
Based on my experience, that's a heavy dose of hyperbole.

Those drivers DO exist. And I'm not saying they're rare; that would reverse the hyperbole. But, surrounded?

I've had to dodge the driving of far more Prius drivers than of Suburbans or F-series pickups. And the number of times I've had to dodge Tesla drivers, I can count with one hand. Anyone remember when Ford put out a GT version of the Escort? Jesus, the number of those kids trying to give birth to <Pick American City> drift scene, THAT was scary.

So, anyway, bad drivers exists in all kinds of vehicle formats, and I tend to think (based on totally anecdotal experience) that the small car drivers are more scaary precisely because they seem to think their recklessness is less reckless because of their relative size.

 

[Embattle]

Americans just can't do it, I mean look at the massive engines of yesteryear with 8 litre engines only getting the same BHP as a 2 litre engine but weighing a lot more and burning a lot more fuel. The only way things will change in EV or petrol based engines is if the costs to run them becomes even greater.

 

[A Man A Plan A Canal Panama]

You… actually might be surprised there. I've seen more than one retired ambulance out camping.

I'd rather see retired ambulances than hearses.

 

[BigDXLT]

Half-ton pickups (eg., the 1500's from ram/chevy, the f150, toyota tundra) are ginormous compared to 20 years ago. They have the same base capacity as their predecessors. And they cost a helluva lot more. And you know what? It's all bulk. Taller, fatter vehicles. Interiors might be roomier, but there was nothing wrong with the interior size of a 1994 crew cab IMO.

The problem is, and this goes back to my personal experience in 2008, is that buying the new small truck (eg., the Tacoma instead of the Tundra) you pay nearly the exact same, so why not buy the bigger truck? I did, I had use for the capacity at the time. The Taco is physically the size of the old tundra but somehow less capable. It makes no sense.

Look at the success of the Maverick right now, it's smaller than the old small Ford (the Ranger) but still bigger than the old Ranger and still less capable in certain metrics.

 

[WhyNotZoidberg]

In VA it seems like you're punished for owning a fuel efficient vehicle. I just re-registered my Camry and got hit with the 'Highway Use Fee' of nearly $40 on top of the registration fee. If I had bought an inefficient vehicle, or one weighing over 10K LBS it would be exempt. Seems like they're incentivizing the wrong direction...

 

[chanman819]

Added thought about small cars: In a multi-car household, where one or more vehicles are dedicated commuter vehicles, it makes a lot of sense for those daily drivers to be parsimonious and reliable since they're being driven every day.

Between increased WFH and generally decreasing car ownership though, it makes sense for a single-vehicle household to make sure their single vehicle is a jack of all trades rather than being optimized for efficient commuting - especially if the vehicle isn't being used for commuting at all.

 

[Rival Vector Plot]

Because then you'd make it prohibitively expensive to operate a garbage truck or a bus or an ambulance. And if you didn't make those vehicles pay their fair share then the idea fails because a garbage truck does more damage to the road driving down it once a day than the Escalade does driving down it all year.

A proven business use is one thing. A consumer use of an oversized vehicle is a waste and detrimental to society. Tax it.

 

[Andrewcw]

Let's let the Chinese export their cars here.

I'd bet they could make small EVs that meet our current standards; they just don't currently have any incentive to do that.

Myself I've always wondered if there's something inherent to the safety regulations that make something the size of an SR5 pickup truck impossible to deliver, or if it's just the profiteering.

You don't want that. We already tried that. The car was the Yugo. As of now Financially all Electric Cars are disposable. We don't need to add to the pile with even cheaper ones that will die even faster.

It is how the American buyer got shifted. The Car makers stopped making sedans. Back in the 80's Trucks were all super cheap. Cheaper then Sedans. You had HOA's ban them from being in driveways. Fast forward 2 decades and it all shifted. Now trucks cost way more off the lot then Sedans. You have former Car execs even explain the shift that he can't sell a 30K sedan but that 100K truck will sell with a 10 year payment plan and admit the truck will be worthless way before the payment plans are done.

 

[Dragonscript]

Small cars would be nice but even a return to just "regular sized" cars would be an improvement.

Several years ago I was trying to right turn onto a busy street in my little Pontiac Vibe (RIP, I loved that car), and a huge pickup pulled up next to me to turn left. I couldn't see over their hood, so I nudged forward so I could see if there was oncoming traffic. So they pulled forward in response. Dude! Your ass is almost higher than my roof. I'm not blocking your eyeline!

My wife still has her 2006 Vibe and it is still a great car, but i do worry about all the bigger cars. When it is time to replace it she is thinking about the Subaru Crosstrek or Outback, i just hope there is an EV version by then.

 

[Pryopizm]

As a tall fat guy, I absolutely loved my Nissan Cube. It was a tiny car with the most cabin space I've ever experienced. The only reason I switched to a Mazda CX-5 was because I'd made a dumb move out into the country in 2015 and I needed a car that wasn't going to be ruined by the many dirt roads (and long dirt driveway). Now I don't need it, but it's paid off and Nissan stopped exporting the Cubes to the US market.

 

[Dr Gitlin]

I'm all for switching emergency broadcasts to FM, but unless we're going to mandate that change, why isn't it reasonable to mandate AM? It's not exactly a big expense to include in a car that already has FM radio.

I certainly don't want to find myself driving by a flashing alert sign in an area with poor cell reception in a car where I can't actually hear the alert message, and I'm not always going to be in a position to refuse to drive or even necessarily buy a car just because it doesn't have AM radio.

No, it’s a bullshit car supremacy argument. If AM radio as an emergency service is so important (and it’s not, given the WEA system) then we should mandate that every American is issued a hand-cranked AM radio. Why should car owners be privileged to get AM emergency alerts but no one else?

The AM radio mandate is being pushed by NAB to protect their dying businesses, using a specious argument.

 

[chaos215bar2]

Almost nobody aside from those obsessively arguing ICE edge cases on an agenda drives the full range of an EV in a single day.

This is a pretty myopic view.

Think about rural America. Think about people who actually drive long distances over a weekend regularly, or who need to drive multiple hundreds of miles in a day semi-regularly for business, who don't want to waste an extra 30~60 minutes charging.

Yes, many people don't really need long range EVs. But anyone arguing that essentially nobody needs this, and therefore it isn't something we really need to worry about, is just making it harder for people who do legitimately need to worry about range to transition to an EV.

Wide availability of high wattage DC fast chargers and compatible cars could be an alternative, but current charging infrastructure is very far from that ideal.

 

[Honeybog]

A proven business use is one thing. A consumer use of an oversized vehicle is a waste and detrimental to society. Tax it.

My state has some of the highest property taxes in the country, with one of the exceptions being tax breaks for farms. The result? A whole lot of McMansions doing the bare minimum in sales that’s required to register as an agriculture business.

 

[Dean0]

I'm interested in switching to an EV. The problem for me is, while I agree that most of my trips are in the 30 km range, I travel 600+ km at least a few times a year and only own one vehicle.

Given I live in the western Canadian prairies where there are VAST distances between highway charging stations, charging would need to be as reliable as getting gas if I were to consider a "short range" EV. This is not the case even at a technical level. Let's not even get into the fact that there's an active hostility by some towards charging stations.

In the short term, there are 3 options that I have control over:
1. Own an ICE vehicle AND an EV.
2. Replace my ICE with a long range EV.
3. Stick with gas.

The first option seems counterproductive. The second is more feasible, but high cost. The third works, but is worse for the environment than 2...

For my part, I sympathize with the range anxiety folks out there.

That being said, given most people in my neck of the woods own 2+ vehicles per household, a cheap, short range EV could be a big win to reduce emissions. Just need some convincing.

 

[Bad Monkey!]

I've had a very hard time finding anything smaller than a full-size SUV rated for towing. I ran into that issue when I bought (and returned) a Hyundai Kona. Tons of vehicles are rated for towing capacity outside of the U.S., but not in the U.S. The Subaru Crosstrek is one of the very few rated for towing. I don't know if it's because it costs more for the manufacturer?

This is important, as I found out with the Kona, because 3rd party tow hitch on a vehicle not rated for towing effectively cancels out absolutely any warranty you may have. The insurance company can just take one look at the 3rd party tow hitch and say, "You can't prove you didn't ruin the transmission/brakes/clutch/steering/etc. by towing a heavy trailer."

The US/NA-market has much more conservative towing regulations than pretty much everywhere else. In Europe, it's no problem to hook up a 3,500lb trailer to a 3,000lb car, in the US, that same car might be rated for a 1,000lb trailer, if at all.

 

[Hoptimist]

Their argument was literally "Why not tie registration fees to the curb weight of the vehicle? Wear on infrastructure is calculated using the 4th power law, which shows that weight plays an exponential role in degradation."

If you want weight limits on passenger vehicles that's great, I agree. But framing the reason as "they damage the roads" while ignoring the fact that actually, they really don't, is a bad argument by which to do so.

I agree with your point, but I'm also fine with heavy trucks actually paying to maintain the infrastructure rather than pawning their costs onto the general taxpayer. Yes, the garbage pickup cost will go up, trucking in general will cost more. Why are we subsidizing heavy trucking?

 

[ShortOrder]

Our next two vehicles will be a plug-in Hybrid SUV and a full size ICE truck. Where I live is commonly -30 to -40 in the winter. The nearest large city (any city really) is 450 km distant with a 200 km drive to the nearest fill-up station. There are also many kms of gravel roads which small cars do not navigate very well in the summer let alone the winter. Until the system is built out, charging is as quick as filling and range is comparable a full on EV makes no sense in Northern Canada.

That's fine, we'll give the 8 people living there permission to still use ICE.

 

[foetusinc]

I dunno, I love the way the e looks but I think most Americans would balk when they see just how small it is on the inside—there's less cargo volume than in a Smart Fortwo, which is really saying something.

Not saying they have to be universally loved, or that the Honda E needs to be the poster child for the idea. But my backdoor neighbor has a grey market Subaru Sambar for Pete’s sake - what if he could have spent that money on something equally weird that didn’t have a power train from the mid 90’s? I’m sure the majors would hate the idea and that’s exactly why I love it - Ford might be less apt to cancel their entire car lineup if they knew they’d start losing even a small fraction of sales to grey market Seats and Puegots.

 

[Ushio]

But before our European readers get too smug, this biggification is happening there, too. Honda's diminutive e was a failure across the pond,

Correction Honda as a company is a failure in Europe. Honda sold just 67,000 vehicles in Europe in 2022.

For comparison Nissan sold 238,000, Ford 516,000 and VW 2.8 million.

 

[chaos215bar2]

No, it’s a bullshit car supremacy argument. If AM radio as an emergency service is so important (and it’s not, given the WEA system) then we should mandate that every American is issued a hand-cranked AM radio. Why should car owners be privileged to get AM emergency alerts but no one else?

The AM radio mandate is being pushed by NAB to protect their dying businesses, using a specious argument.

Nonsense. I drive along roads on a weekly basis during the winter with zero cell coverage for large stretches, sometimes iffy road conditions, and regularly spaced AM alert stations with signs by the road to alert cars if there's a message being broadcast.

This isn't for general purpose alerts, it's used specifically to broadcast alerts related to road conditions from transmitters located along the impacted road. The WEA system covers a completely different use case.

What does "car supremacy" have to do with this?

Edit: And again, I'm all for mandating these transmitters switch to FM. Or even just mandating emergency cell coverage as an alternative. They are government operated, after all. But until that happens, this is actually an important service in some areas. Whatever NAB is pushing seems to have very little to do with this use case.

 

[Necron69]

For the first time in a long time, I've gone smaller again with my 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5. It sits slightly lower than my old Mazda CX-5, but the battery pack raises your sitting height about 6 inches compared to an ICE hatchback. Loads of cargo room, and I charge at home for my weekday ~40 mile commute. It's also the most fun car to drive that I've owned in a couple of decades. Too bad Uncle Sam killed the EV tax rebate for Hyundai - just plain stupid.

 

[Dputiger]

I haven't bought a car in some years, but I've watched EVs with interest. I also periodically drive ~600 miles to visit family. It's already a 10-hour drive and I'm not interested in making it longer by having to recharge more than 1-2x per leg of the trip. I'm not counting any driving I do on-location since I can recharge from that at my destination.

I don't currently have access to charging infrastructure so buying an EV right now isn't practical, but I want my vehicle to be able to travel to see my family the way I already do. If I have to rent an ICE vehicle, that's a substantial additional cost. So is the idea of pushing the trip out to 12 hours just to allow for charging.

It's absolutely true that this is only a minority of my driving per year, but these are the times I really need range and a drive time that doesn't push me into exhaustion or require an overnight hotel stay. A vehicle that can't deliver when I need those things the most doesn't serve my needs. I'd also prefer not to pay the additional insurance and maintenance costs associated with owning an ICE vehicle that I only need a handful of times a year.

 

[monkeyrun]

why not embrace city planning and functional public transportation.

 

[Chris Laarman]

At least it's easier to embrace a small car than a big one. ;-)

 

[iim]

Also, the largest sedan sold in America by far is a (BMW) Rolls-Royce. And that model is sold worldwide it’s not a US exclusive.

 

[keltorak]

I'm on board with getting the smallest possible car that fits my needs.

Our first car was a first year (to Canada) Honda Fit. And we only outgrew it when we were expecting our third kid. With 2 large dogs in tow, it was at its limit. But it was a great car for the city and decent for road trips. It was cavernous inside and could fit so much stuff.

We then got a used Mitsubishi Outlander, which we've had for 10 of its 14 years. It was like a larger Fit. But with teens that are getting wider shoulders and longer legs, we'll hit the limit of comfortably fitting 5 people in it at some point (no dogs to consider anymore...).

Any car (with a hatch) that genuinely fits 5 adult sized persons is huge these days. And that sucks.

 

[randomuser42]

I feel like people don't understand that you can RENT trucks and etc to haul shit and it's only a slight inconvenience for most people that haul stuff maybe once or twice a year...

Or if you're in the US, call on your truck owning friends to borrow their truck/help haul maybe one of the less than 10 things that will require a truck for the year

I just checked and it's 19 bucks to rent a pick-up from lowes for 90 minutes, and 50 for 4 hours. The reason I just checked is because I missed trash day and didn't feel like stuffing my car full of trash for a drive to the transfer station!

 

[Dr Gitlin]

why not embrace city planning and functional public transportation.

I’m quite sure that’s what the conclusion of this article already says.

 

[Qyygle]

A lot of commentors are noting that once a year, they need to drive long distance, so EV range actually becomes an issue for them.

But... why not just use a rental car for that kind of trip then? Do we have such a ridiculous car focused/personal convience mindset here in the States, that even entertaining the idea of taking a train or bus or even a rental car is not even on the table?

 

[O/Siris]

why not embrace city planning and functional public transportation.

In concept, I agree.

In reality, especially in suburbs and rural, that simply does not exist when it comes to public transportation.

 

[wanderer000]

It's sad to hear that the Honda E is being discontinued after only 3 years...
Had there been a US release with about 220 miles of range (I live in a condo w/ little charging nearby and wildly fluctuating temps throughout the year), I would've jumped on that without much thought. Cars nowadays are so wasteful and I feel like larger cars are making bad drivers even worse at driving.

 

[ShortOrder]

Had a trip down south a few weeks ago and for a rental vehicle reserved the "manager's special" because it was the cheapest option and ended up getting a Ram 1500 pickup. Funny thing was when I checked into my hotel there was a little truck with Mexican plates I'd never seen before so I image searched it. It was a Ram 700 and I would have far prefered it to the monstrosity I was stuck in. Not sure why it's not sold here but considering the success of the Maverick I'm surprised they haven't started bringing it over the border.