Does quantum physics really say that everything is a wave?

dmsilev

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Oh that is what has been simplified into "you can measure the position and velocity, but not both at the same time" in popsci?
Very similar, yes. It's a bit different in that with spins, each measurement only has two possible outcomes, whereas a position or momentum measurement can yield a range of numbers, but in both cases the idea is the same. A very precise position measurement means that you've generated a large uncertainty in momentum.[*] Measuring the x component of a pin means that you no longer know its z value, even if you previously measured it. The more mathematically-dense but precise statement is that a a projection along S_x ("an eigenstate of the S_x operator") is a superposition of the two S_z states, so by performing that measurement and getting let's say +1/2, fhat puts the system into a Sz state of 1/sqrt(2)( |+> + |->), which is to say a 50% chance of spin up and a 50% chance of spin down. [**]

[*} Favorite SF weapon: The Heisenberg Disrupter. It measures the position of all of the atoms in its target very very precisely, at which point the target explodes away from itself at nearly the speed of light....

[**] For those who haven't seen this sort of notation before, it's called Dirac or informally bra-ket notation and it's for talking about quantum states and the various ways of evolving or measuring them. In this case, it means a state consisting of an equal probability of spin-up and spin-down; the 1/sqrt(2) prefactor is so that when we add up the total probability of all states, we get 1. If I had measured along S_y instead of S_x, it would have been |+> - i |->; the relative weights of the two states are complex, and encode things like phase shifts.
 

Megalodon

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i did hear that the idea of the cat being in superpostiion was more to show the absurdity behind it but the wiki article behind it made it sound literal.

The thing is, it's scale-dependent. Larger systems become more difficult to maintain in a superposition. You can't really get to the macroscopic scale and maintain a superposition for non-negligible amounts of time.
 

RagingWarGod

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The thing is, it's scale-dependent. Larger systems become more difficult to maintain in a superposition. You can't really get to the macroscopic scale and maintain a superposition for non-negligible amounts of time.
I see. Though I guess the main thing I've thinking is how people seem to run away with this sorta stuff, especially the Cat. Though the waves one I couldn't really call people on because I don't really understand it myself (but I understand what other people THINK it means).
 

Megalodon

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I see. Though I guess the main thing I've thinking is how people seem to run away with this sorta stuff, especially the Cat.

If by "people" you mean "forum bullshitters" then yes. This presents two obvious problems:

-you clearly haven't stopped taking them too seriously
-you're here, asking another bunch of forum denizens to fix it for you
 
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RagingWarGod

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If by "people" you mean "forum bullshitters" then yes. This presents two obvious problems:

-you clearly haven't stopped taking them too seriously
-you're here, asking another bunch of forum denizens to fix it for you
If I could fix it myself I wouldn't be here, but I cannot stop myself from hearing everyone out and giving them weight no matter how radical the things they say are.
 

Megalodon

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If I could fix it myself I wouldn't be here, but I cannot stop myself from hearing everyone out and giving them weight no matter how radical the things they say are.

You're willing to make unbounded time commitments to low effort trolls, then.

Sorry but given your posting history here you strike me as a lost cause. You do not accept answers that have been explained to a reasonable standard, meaning your standard, whatever it is, is unreasonable, and hence does not merit any further response. You might have had better questions that could have been answered if you'd made a more judicious use of resources, but you neglected the opportunity cost of this pattern of engagement and now it's too late. Oh well.
 

Coriolanus

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I cannot stop myself from hearing everyone out and giving them weight no matter how radical the things they say are.
Option 1: "Oxygen is essential for respiration that keeps you alive."

Option 2: "No way, clearly we should only breathe methane!"

Gosh darnit, I can't tell which opinion is the valid one. They must both be given equal weight.
 

PhaseShifter

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As a start, read the Wikipedia overview article on interpretations of quantum mechanics and then the full articles on what are probably the two most prominent viewpoints, the Copenhagen interpretation and the many-worlds view.

As a practical matter, I would note that many many scientists subscribe to what that article calls 'the silent approach' which says more or less that it’s not an interesting set of questions to ask.
I'd argue that it's not so much uninteresting as it is meaningless.

These aren't different theories, they're different interpretations of the same theory.

That means they use the same equations, and both will predict exactly the same solutions to any given problem.

The only difference is they will describe the solutions using different words.

If you want to argue that one interpretation is correct and the other is not, then you need a testable situation where they would predict different results, and that doesn't exist... and also won't exist unless you modify one of them into something that's no longer an interpretation of traditional quantum mechanics.
 
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dmsilev

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If you want to argue that one interpretation is correct and the other is not, then you need a testable situation where they would predict different results, and that doesn't exist... and also won't exist unless you modify one of them into something that's no longer an interpretation of traditional quantum mechanics.
Yeah, I think that's a good point to raise. Most of these interpretation philosophies are fundamentally untestable or unfalsifiable.
 

RagingWarGod

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Sorry but given your posting history here you strike me as a lost cause. You do not accept answers that have been explained to a reasonable standard, meaning your standard, whatever it is, is unreasonable, and hence does not merit any further response. You might have had better questions that could have been answered if you'd made a more judicious use of resources, but you neglected the opportunity cost of this pattern of engagement and now it's too late. Oh well.
It's not really opportunity cost or pattern, I can't stop thinking this way. Every thing I read I have to verify with other people, the problem is some sources no one really knows about and the people that do (like with certain thinkers for example) are fans who already agree with them so I can't really get a good sense of it.
 

Coriolanus

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You say that like a joke but my mind really does work like that.
You do realize that this isn't a particularly helpful thing, right? Skepticism is one of those things that is a muscle and you should always exercise it if people are making claims about stuff. And always mind your sources. Don't ask people on social media, forums, or reddit. They don't know and they will likely feed you even more confusing stuff that will send into another rabbit hole with no end.

There are some credentialed folks on Ars who are kindly helping you out with some explanation, but honestly, at some point you will just have to accept that you likely don't have the education or background to understand it in any way except for a surface level skim and just move on.

Also, if you're the type that would just accept what people say, then stay away from multilevel marketing schemes. Ignore people telling you that it's easy to become rich. Don't buy crypto. If someone is trying to sell you a course on getting rich, then block them. You'll thank me later.
 

RagingWarGod

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You do realize that this isn't a particularly helpful thing, right? Skepticism is one of those things that is a muscle and you should always exercise it if people are making claims about stuff. And always mind your sources. Don't ask people on social media, forums, or reddit. They don't know and they will likely feed you even more confusing stuff that will send into another rabbit hole with no end.
Yeah that's been the case so far, especially when trying to understand psychoanalysis. I know it's not helpful but I cannot stop it, and after 25 years of trying I'm not sure I can do anything about it.
 

dmsilev

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Yeah that's been the case so far, especially when trying to understand psychoanalysis. I know it's not helpful but I cannot stop it, and after 25 years of trying I'm not sure I can do anything about it.
So, a serious question for you. Taking your mental wiring as given, why should anyone here spend any effort addressing your questions? If you're just going to weigh those responses equally with Random Other Stuff, what's the point of asking a bunch of informed people to spend time on you?

Essentially, the best you're going to get as responses to your queries is people using them as jumping-off points to talk about related things that they find interesting, whether or not those things directly address your questions. Because directly answering your questions is evidently a waste of time.
 

RagingWarGod

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So, a serious question for you. Taking your mental wiring as given, why should anyone here spend any effort addressing your questions? If you're just going to weigh those responses equally with Random Other Stuff, what's the point of asking a bunch of informed people to spend time on you?

Essentially, the best you're going to get as responses to your queries is people using them as jumping-off points to talk about related things that they find interesting, whether or not those things directly address your questions. Because directly answering your questions is evidently a waste of time.
I'm kinda hoping it changes because it's exhausting living like this.
 

AdrianS

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Has there been a study on whether pseudoscience and spirituality contribute to the effectiveness of placebos?
That would be interesting.

However, a strong belief in 'the power of modern medicine' may have the same effect. Don't forget that the placebo recipients don't know they're getting a placebo - they think they're getting medicine.
 
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w00key

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It's very well known in medicine that placebos are essentially untreatable. Even if people know they're taking a placebo, even if they are literally the researchers themselves, placebos work.
If only I can convince my belly that this pack of potato chips is a good weight loss drug/placebo :LOL:
 
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