Dish may outbid Sprint for T-Mobile, become fourth major carrier

Dish will not "sit on the sidelines" if Sprint tries to buy T-Mobile.

Read the whole story

 

[arjalon]

SunnyD[/url]":1aavolu9]Charlie really loves to try to rain on Sprint's parade, doesn't he?

No. Its just there aren't that many available players and he is danged serious about wanting to get into the cellular business.

 

[nevarDeath]

mohaine[/url]":jfbe6v0s]

itlnstln[/url]":jfbe6v0s]Fair (transparent, anyway) billing, great equipment, and (relatively) good service.

I'm going to have to call BS on this one. Last time I tried them I verified if a land line was required, and they said no. What they didn't mention was that there was a $5/Month fee for not having one.

Dish hasn't required that fee for years now. The company has changed a ton over the last 5 years. Source: I'm a happy Dish employee.

I'm also a T-Mobile customer and would love for this to happen. Regardless of whether Dish buys T-Mobile or not, I believe that if we only have 3 cell carriers in the US, it will kill competition in the cellular industry. Our cell industry will end up with the same amount (none!) of competition that we have in the US broadband industry.

These opinions are mine personally, not that of Dish Network LLC.

 

[dayznfuz]

wallinbl[/url]":laexgqh9]People that have T-Mobile often say they like it. People that have Dish never say they like it. Doesn't seem like a good thing for Dish to own T-Mobile.

Count another one in the like Dish column. I've had dish for 8 years and have had nothing but a good experience with them. I had several hard drive problems with the old 922, but these were replaced without any hassle with overnight delivery. When the hopper came out, I basically called and got a free upgrade without hassle, and the hopper so far has been great. I've currently got Direct TV as well, and picture quality, service, and usability pale in comparison to what I've had with Dish. And let's not even discuss the nightmare that is Comcast.

Frankly, these days, I'm not a big fan of Sprint. I've seen my bill jump 30% in the last 4 years (changes in how they do employee discounts and the 'premium' data fee) coupled with worsening voice and data (Edge and 3G are pretty much unusable in my area) quality is making me jump ship to... Tmobile, ironically enough. Customer service is friendly, I'll give them that, but completely ineffectual. I will not be a happy camper if Sprint buys out Tmobile.

 

[SFC]

wallinbl[/url]":1s7ajdg4]People that have T-Mobile often say they like it. People that have Dish never say they like it. Doesn't seem like a good thing for Dish to own T-Mobile.

Dish customer here. I love it. Not sure who you've talked to who disliked it but I've yet to hear anybody say so. Quite frankly they have to be good as they've got actual real competition in DirecTV.

 

[MechR]

Reuters noted that "Dish would have less synergies with T-Mobile than Sprint, because it owns wireless spectrum but does not have a network or infrastructure."

It took me three tries to make sense of which company "it" was referring to. (Spoiler: "it" = Dish.)

 

[BarkingGhostAR]

Mouth opening:

I am a T-Mobile customer and have been for many years. I like them, but I have to say one part of me likes them is because I hate AT&T, Verizon and Sprint. People that are with T-Mobile are there not just out of some random chance, but usually because they tried someone else and disliked them.

I am NOT a DISH customer. I was a DISH customer a decade ago. Their desire in keeping existing customers is similar to AT&T and Verizon: "leave, please, as you will be replaced by others." Great customer attitude, there.

And how patient are T-Mobile customers? I only bought my first iPhone when T-Mobile USA launched it in April. Yes, I waited patiently, because I refused to deal with AT&T, Verizon and Sprint.

BTW, I have been a DirecTV customer for a decade following my [bad] experience with DISH. I would rather see Comcast buy T-Mobile than DISH or Sprint.

 

[DanNeely]

afidel[/url]":3lulkl09]
People who think Sprint isn't innovating on plans probably don't realize that Sprint owns three of their MVNO's (Virgin Mobile, Boost, and Ting) and hosts two of the more innovative MVNO's (Republic Wireless and Freedompop). For reasons of reporting they choose not to mess too much with their flagship brand (stupid sell side analysts and their fixation on ARPU) but overall they're probably doing as much, if not more than T-Mobile to change the cellphone landscape in the US.

Ting is owned by TuCows not Sprint.

 

[heartburnkid]

I can't say I'm too enthused about the prospect of Dish buying T-Mobile, but it'd be far better than Sprint. At least it keeps the same number of players in the mobile game.

 

[warmonked]

Why is Dish so obsessed with picking up a mobile provider? Besides being able to share spectrum, what's the synergy?

 

[toyotabedzrock]

Get your Dish phone!

</sarcasm>

 

[heartburnkid]

warmonked[/url]":9efkgm6n]Why is Dish so obsessed with picking up a mobile provider? Besides being able to share spectrum, what's the synergy?

I'm guessing they want to be able to offer bundles like the telcos and cablecos do.

 

[fuxxx]

Oh my god I had forgotten about Lightsquared

 

[fuxxx]

heartburnkid[/url]":d6tg4hwe]

warmonked[/url]":d6tg4hwe]Why is Dish so obsessed with picking up a mobile provider? Besides being able to share spectrum, what's the synergy?

I'm guessing they want to be able to offer bundles like the telcos and cablecos do.

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. Dish hasn't ever been able to be triple-play, and owning a cell company achieves that in a Dish kinda way.

Dish have been pretty innovative in their time, I think they'll do well owning a mobile company.

 

[Arlondiluthel]

AkeemMcLennon[/url]":1b7i0a4k]Is it just me, or has there been a Sprint / Dish Network pissing contest since the LightSquared deal?

Well, one of them is bound to run out sooner or later... just grab an umbrella and press on.

 

[lindenbranch]

DanNeely[/url]":1kmikj5v]

afidel[/url]":1kmikj5v]
People who think Sprint isn't innovating on plans probably don't realize that Sprint owns three of their MVNO's (Virgin Mobile, Boost, and Ting) and hosts two of the more innovative MVNO's (Republic Wireless and Freedompop). For reasons of reporting they choose not to mess too much with their flagship brand (stupid sell side analysts and their fixation on ARPU) but overall they're probably doing as much, if not more than T-Mobile to change the cellphone landscape in the US.

Ting is owned by TuCows not Sprint.

Link for documentation

https://ting.com/

A Division of Tucows Inc.

We have been helping people unlock the power of the Internet since 1994. Screens have gotten smaller, our mission is the same.
Tucows Logo

 

[kliu0x52]

warmonked[/url]":ts7rcw2r]Why is Dish so obsessed with picking up a mobile provider? Besides being able to share spectrum, what's the synergy?

I think that's it, really, Dish has a lot of spectrum, but no network. T-Mobile has a network, but is spectrum-starved. I think a Dish/T-Mobile partnership does have a lot of synergy in that respect.

That said, as a T-Mobile customer who is extremely happy with the new consumer-friendly course that T-Mobile is tacking, I'm wary of any sort of management change and what that might mean.

 

[tului]

Leave the one halfway decent carrier in the US alone. Piss off, the lot of ya.

 

[aaronb1138]

itlnstln[/url]":2a1r2c83]

wallinbl[/url]":2a1r2c83]People that have T-Mobile often say they like it. People that have Dish never say they like it. Doesn't seem like a good thing for Dish to own T-Mobile.

I would disagree. I like T-Mobile and Dish. Of the television providers I have used, Dish has been, by far, my favorite. Fair (transparent, anyway) billing, great equipment, and (relatively) good service.

Ask UPS about Dish hardware, they have stacks of them at every shipping facility. The DVR failure rates are incredible, both due to buggy firmware and poor design choices. As much as I hate AT&T customer service, their DVR in the data center is vastly superior (U-verse); the Motorola built client boxes never die (they also conveniently act as network media bridges). Dish customer service is pretty terrible too. Hopper is too little too late and unproven as far as longevity.

I think Sprint and Dish both have looked at the long term numbers and know they are on their way out. No need to bring down one of the better mobile providers while they are at it.

 

[beebee]

kliu0x52[/url]":1jwo5f90]

warmonked[/url]":1jwo5f90]Why is Dish so obsessed with picking up a mobile provider? Besides being able to share spectrum, what's the synergy?

I think that's it, really, Dish has a lot of spectrum, but no network. T-Mobile has a network, but is spectrum-starved. I think a Dish/T-Mobile partnership does have a lot of synergy in that respect.

That said, as a T-Mobile customer who is extremely happy with the new consumer-friendly course that T-Mobile is tacking, I'm wary of any sort of management change and what that might mean.

Now that Tmob is a "bring your own phone" company, that Dish spectrum better be ready to work on the phone I own. It isn't like the cold days where you get a subsidy. Plus didn't they get spectrum from MetroPCS?

 

[issor]

gwdres85[/url]":3a4g17fv]

mowserx[/url]":3a4g17fv]

wallinbl[/url]":3a4g17fv]People that have T-Mobile often say they like it. People that have Dish never say they like it. Doesn't seem like a good thing for Dish to own T-Mobile.

We switched from Time Warner (crappy!) to DirecTV and then a few years later to Dish. There are a few features with Dish DVRs which once I got used to them I cannot live without. Those include 30-second fast forward option and 10-second rewind option (I can watch an NFL game very quickly - play is over, 30-second advance, repeat). We have also been using an external USB hard drive attached to our various Dish DVRs to archive shows we don't need stored on the internal drive.
We had problems with their 922 receivers (went through 3 in one year) but they have discontinued them and the Hopper with Sling for remote access to my stuff is pretty slick.

This is not Dish you like but DVRs. Dish stole a lot of this stuff from Tivo and got hit with a massive fee for patent infringment. It's a dishonest company.

Oh please. Everyone makes DVRs. Recognizing a breakthrough in your industry and trying to keep up is hardly dishonest, it happens in every industry. You must have a bone to pick.

I dare say some of the Hopper stuff is even better than TiVo.

 

[beebee]

Incarnate[/url]":1j5w1is1]

ReddyKilowatt[/url]":1j5w1is1]No fan of Dish network, but since many of their customers are out in rural and suburban areas, maybe they'll get moving on 4G/LTE out in the sticks. The only carrier that seems to be pushing LTE out in the middle of nowhere is Verizon Wireless, and they really need some competition.

Not going to happen. There is no infrastructure to deploy to reach the rural areas for Dish. The same satellites serve all of their customers. There are cell towers that need to be built out for 4G/LTE, and it only makes sense if they can get enough customers to sell service too in those areas.

Except I see AT&T putting up towers in the boonies, just to go into those "Verizon only" towns. Not cheap towers either. Microwave links in multiple directions for the back haul, often with LPG power. AT&T figured out that if you don't cover the highways BETWEEN rural towns, nobody give a crap if you are IN the town.

The new towers are 4G thus far, but I don't see LTE being an issue since they are building the infrastructure.

GSM got a bad rap in rural areas due to the 35km hard limit, but that is no longer the case with 4g or LTE.

 

[qazwart]

Dish has a wee bit of a problem. Dish is your cable competitor. You have a cable company, and you have the DISH option.

However, with cable operators moving into triple play territory, Dish is at a big disadvantage. It can compete on the price of TV entertainment, but it cannot offer phone and IP services too. This puts Dish at a big disadvantage.

By acquiring T-Mobile, Dish could offer TV services via satellite, and phone and IP services via T-Mobile. T-Mobile's network is almost as fast as most cable providers, and it will blend well with Dish's over-the-air TV service. They can offer a triple play package just like Comcast, Cablevision, and Timewarner.

 

[StillGridlocked]

Dish has no cash other than cash generated from debt. If DT takes any guidance from the US unit it is desperate to sell they won't sell it to Dish. That's a recipe for disaster.

To continue its fast paced build out strategy TMo can only be sold to someone with deep pockets. SoftBank will have an extra $25 billion when Alibaba goes public. Sprint has only had access to real cash for the last 6 months or so while TMo is running dry as the AT&T breakup cash has run out.

 

[beebee]

qazwart[/url]":1wlke77p]Dish has a wee bit of a problem. Dish is your cable competitor. You have a cable company, and you have the DISH option.

However, with cable operators moving into triple play territory, Dish is at a big disadvantage. It can compete on the price of TV entertainment, but it cannot offer phone and IP services too. This puts Dish at a big disadvantage.

By acquiring T-Mobile, Dish could offer TV services via satellite, and phone and IP services via T-Mobile. T-Mobile's network is almost as fast as most cable providers, and it will blend well with Dish's over-the-air TV service. They can offer a triple play package just like Comcast, Cablevision, and Timewarner.

Tmob LTE is about 35Mbps down and 14Mbps up, bit it probably would be if it had a lot of home users. Wasn't that the failure of Clearwire?

 

[sdrubbins]

JonTD[/url]":3spmglva]Or [Deutsch Telekom] could just keep [T-Mobile]. T-mobile is starting to change the game here in the US and is poised to eat its competitors alive. Why walk away when it's finally starting to make some money?

Because it's entirely unclear that T-Mobile is in fact starting to make money. They are staying a live, and maybe/potentially starting to eat its competitors alive, by slashing prices. Good for a market share play, but not necessarily good for the bottom line.

Putting aside the telecom aspect of this proposal, T-Mobile + Dish might be good for consumers in the broadband internet market. Seems to me a combination of Dish's infrastructure for downstream data and T-Mobile's infrastructure for upstream data could finally give us a satellite-based ISP that can compete with cable, DSL, and fiber. Consumer choice is still severely limited in that market - I personally only have one (1!) choice for broadband, and most people have max two or three. Adding one solid competitor to a market landscape like that could provide huge benefits.

Sell it under the T-Mobile brand, with T-Mobile customer service, and it could succeed.

 

[sdrubbins]

EDIT: sorry, technical error, double post.

 

[emice]

afidel[/url]":1u44e0lf]
Sprint has plenty of spectrum, what they need is bandwidth, which is something they've been working on for the last 24 months or so. They also are working towards actually using all the spectrum they own, they just freed up the 850MHz block by shutting down Nextel and are turning it up for LTE service at sites that have gone through the Network Vision upgrades. In addition they just started the Spark initiative to use the 2.5GHz Clear spectrum. The 850MHz block allows them to have coverage similar to Verizon (at least where they have towers) and the 2.5 and existing 1.9GHz bands allow for massive bandwidth in dense urban areas where the smaller propagation area is actually an advantage as it allows for smaller cells and thus lower users per cell ratios. Overall Sprint might be the best positioned phone company from a technology perspective and thanks to Softbank they now have the capital to actually get all the necessary equipment in place in a reasonable timeframe.

Good info. I won't take a favorable view of a merger with Sprint if there is currently no spectrum crunch for them. The advantages for Sprint would be getting the customers, and possibly the T-Mobile towers, if they are better built out. Not a great reason to reduce competition.

As another poster mentioned, Dish is a content company that is looking to buy an ISP, which like the Comcast/NBC deal can be a big conflict of interest. Both of these deals seem like they'll leave the customer in a worse position.

 

[DexterTheCat]

I used to be a long-time Tmo customer. I never had a problem with them, I just finally switched because I was finally fed up with not getting the hardware I TRULY desired.

I don't really miss them. The cost difference for me is a whopping $15 more a month. Not so bad.

But anyway... this idea that all their newer, innovative plans were born out of some white-hat wearing motivation to do right by the customer is laughable.

Tmobile has great plans out of necessity.. .because they are the #4 carrier in the U.S., have been #4, and seem to be destined to remain as #4. Like I mentioned above, they get shafted on exclusive hardware... So what else are they going to do to attract customers? Be uber-competitive in the one area that most customers hate: Plan rates and structure. 'Bring your own' is absolutely a response to their inability to grab new hardware. Its very plain to see.

Good for Tmobile and good for consumers though, not saying its bad at all. But in an alternate universe Tmobile were the #1 cell carrier in the US, they would have the same prices and plan structure that VZW and At&t have now.

 

[nycnikato]

If you think Dish should win T-mobile , then send bitcoin to
13NothK4xwUW2g5hGRZ8qtw55P8DFgcc5P

If you think Dish should lose T-mobile, send bitcoin to
1DJwYPvykAkZoBrPEJCzghFprLrtehM4dz

 

[JonTD]

sdrubbins[/url]":2ipj77qi]

JonTD[/url]":2ipj77qi]Or [Deutsch Telekom] could just keep [T-Mobile]. T-mobile is starting to change the game here in the US and is poised to eat its competitors alive. Why walk away when it's finally starting to make some money?

Because it's entirely unclear that T-Mobile is in fact starting to make money. They are staying a live, and maybe/potentially starting to eat its competitors alive, by slashing prices. Good for a market share play, but not necessarily good for the bottom line.

The numbers are pretty telling and they have a LOT of room to grow revenue with static margins (and thus higher profit):

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/t-mobile- ... 00855.html

 

[sdrubbins]

JonTD[/url]":2tyk8qen]

sdrubbins[/url]":2tyk8qen]

JonTD[/url]":2tyk8qen]Or [Deutsch Telekom] could just keep [T-Mobile]. T-mobile is starting to change the game here in the US and is poised to eat its competitors alive. Why walk away when it's finally starting to make some money?

Because it's entirely unclear that T-Mobile is in fact starting to make money. They are staying a live, and maybe/potentially starting to eat its competitors alive, by slashing prices. Good for a market share play, but not necessarily good for the bottom line.

The numbers are pretty telling and they have a LOT of room to grow revenue with static margins (and thus higher profit):

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/t-mobile- ... 00855.html

Nice. In case it wasn't clear, I wasn't trying to be antagonistic in my post - I used terms like "unclear" and "not necessarily" because I just didn't know the answer. Thx for link/info!

 

[heartburnkid]

DexterTheCat[/url]":2hv7vp7l]I used to be a long-time Tmo customer. I never had a problem with them, I just finally switched because I was finally fed up with not getting the hardware I TRULY desired.

I don't really miss them. The cost difference for me is a whopping $15 more a month. Not so bad.

But anyway... this idea that all their newer, innovative plans were born out of some white-hat wearing motivation to do right by the customer is laughable.

Tmobile has great plans out of necessity.. .because they are the #4 carrier in the U.S., have been #4, and seem to be destined to remain as #4. Like I mentioned above, they get shafted on exclusive hardware... So what else are they going to do to attract customers? Be uber-competitive in the one area that most customers hate: Plan rates and structure. 'Bring your own' is absolutely a response to their inability to grab new hardware. Its very plain to see.

Good for Tmobile and good for consumers though, not saying its bad at all. But in an alternate universe Tmobile were the #1 cell carrier in the US, they would have the same prices and plan structure that VZW and At&t have now.

Let me make this clear: I do not give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut why they have the best customer service, the lowest prices of any major carrier, and are the most friendly to customers bringing their own hardware. I care only that they are, and wish for them to remain so.