Decrypted: Westworld is playing mind games with us

In the latest episode of Ars TV podcast <em>Decrypted</em>, we explore what gameplay is like in the park.

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[Mazzicc]

I've got popcorn for this thread, bring on the "spoilers"!

 

[AlaskanDruid]

Can't wait for the transcription to come out.

 

[DoomHamster]

I wish we could get transcripts of these.

I am one of those oddballs that never seems to have time to listen to podcasts but can find time to read stuff here and there all day long.

 

[AlaskanDruid]

I don't think its odd to think time is valuable. Not all of us have time to waste for something that'll take a few minutes to read.

 

[BDoN]

The Wyatt scene reminds me of the movie Bone Tomahawk. I love the movie, but I caution people that it will not be everyone's cup of tea. The slow pace will put some off, and if you are my better half the jaw dropping and gruesome violence will turn you away (my jaw dropped and I am pretty desensitized).

Anyway, loving the show.

 

[Peevester]

I'd love to see a transcript - my podcast queue is giant.

 

[malnar]

DoomHamster[/url]":216an3zw]I wish we could get transcripts of these.

I am one of those oddballs that never seems to have time to listen to podcasts but can find time to read stuff here and there all day long.

Add me in as another who just doesn't have/make time for podcasts. I'll happily read the discussion, but I'm not going to listen. Why not offer both options?

 

[TheEphemeralElectron]

I disagree with the podcast about the head-bashing bot.

I think he was about to kill the woman and he had to kill himself in order to not do it. The pause between when he lifted the rock and when he did it... seemed to indicate an inner conflict.

Kinda like the Arnold character from Terminator 2 bashing the car instead of John in order to not fail his mission.

 

[pokrface]

I continue to enjoy the hell out of Westworld. The standout point in this episode was Wyatt's gang, because it validates the guest in episode 1 saying that the farther out you get from town, the more demented things get.

I at first thought the bounty hunter guest's "OH MY FUCKING GOD!" exclamation was a little much, since she's in no real danger, but then I tried to put myself in her position. It's dark as hell. You're tired. You've been "playing" all day, and you're clearly not going to fall asleep in your cushy bed back in Sweetwater this evening. Suddenly, terrifying dinosaur-animal-hell noises start echoing from the hills and people in goddamn skull masks rush you. Yeah, okay, I get it—I'm terrified now. It's like being in one of those big professional-grade haunted houses, except so much worse.

I also dig how Teddy got to be a total badass and pull off some kind of awesome six-shot combo on the cultists...and it didn't matter. As the marshall said, they're beyond pain and they think they're already dead. So maybe they're actually unkillable—like, Ford has tweaked 'em so that their "death threshold" or whatever is super duper high. I dug it.

And...poor Teddy. He really is the Kenny of this show. We should start taking bets on the manner of his demise in each episode.

Annalee and I were IMing yesterday about Ford's office, too—I said I loved it, she said (rightfully) that it's the office of a crazy person, filled with heads and parts and things. We also both twigged to the almost ludicrous over-the-top crazy of having a near-sentient AI robot whose sole purpose is to play background music. The "self-playing piano" motif, extended to its extreme. It's actually...really, really depressing.

 

[NinjaNerd56]

DoomHamster[/url]":2dx4mr26]I wish we could get transcripts of these.

I am one of those oddballs that never seems to have time to listen to podcasts but can find time to read stuff here and there all day long.

Or perhaps it's just that podcasts are lemming radio.

/s

Actually, I like reading. I tried audiobooks; nope. iBooks and Kindle? Love them.

 

[Annalee]

TheEphemeralElectron[/url]":3r0ywadc]I disagree with the podcast about the head-bashing bot.

I think he was about to kill the woman and he had to kill himself in order to not do it. The pause between when he lifted the rock and when he did it... seemed to indicate an inner conflict.

Kinda like the Arnold character from Terminator 2 bashing the car instead of John in order to not fail his mission.

Could be! I think Kyle would agree with you. I wondered about the "destroying evidence" thing because A) he'd been about to lose his head and seemed to be protecting against it; and B) Ford has been messing with a lot of the robots and may have programmed them to self-destruct rather than give away what had been done to them.

 

[Schizoid]

Ford's office reminded me of Tyrell's in Bladerunner.

 

[Annalee]

Pokrface[/url]":14hefwr0]I continue to enjoy the hell out of Westworld. The standout point in this episode was Wyatt's gang, because it validates the guest in episode 1 saying that the farther out you get from town, the more demented things get.

I at first thought the bounty hunter guest's "OH MY FUCKING GOD!" exclamation was a little much, since she's in no real danger, but then I tried to put myself in her position. It's dark as hell. You're tired. You've been "playing" all day, and you're clearly not going to fall asleep in your cushy bed back in Sweetwater this evening. Suddenly, terrifying dinosaur-animal-hell noises start echoing from the hills and people in goddamn skull masks rush you. Yeah, okay, I get it—I'm terrified now. It's like being in one of those big professional-grade haunted houses, except so much worse.

I also dig how Teddy got to be a total badass and pull off some kind of awesome six-shot combo on the cultists...and it didn't matter. As the marshall said, they're beyond pain and they think they're already dead. So maybe they're actually unkillable—like, Ford has tweaked 'em so that their "death threshold" or whatever is super duper high. I dug it.

And...poor Teddy. He really is the Kenny of this show. We should start taking bets on the manner of his demise in each episode.

Annalee and I were IMing yesterday about Ford's office, too—I said I loved it, she said (rightfully) that it's the office of a crazy person, filled with heads and parts and things. We also both twigged to the almost ludicrous over-the-top crazy of having a near-sentient AI robot whose sole purpose is to play background music. The "self-playing piano" motif, extended to its extreme. It's actually...really, really depressing.

I thought Kyle's characterization of the Wyatt storyline as a "zombie extension pack" was spot-on.

 

[taraba]

I didn't think Ford's office was of a crazy person. It looked like the office of an engineer / maker to me. He happens to be making human analogues so his parts so the same way someone might have an old motherboard hanging up that was a breakthrough they developed, he has some body part.

Remember that he sees the hosts not as human, but as equipment. They're the rollercoaster train cars in his park. He has reminded others on at least three occasions that they're equipment and not people. Two in the last episode and one in the first if I remember right.

 

[NinjaNerd56]

Pokrface[/url]":bduya9r4]I continue to enjoy the hell out of Westworld. The standout point in this episode was Wyatt's gang, because it validates the guest in episode 1 saying that the farther out you get from town, the more demented things get.

I at first thought the bounty hunter guest's "OH MY FUCKING GOD!" exclamation was a little much, since she's in no real danger, but then I tried to put myself in her position. It's dark as hell. You're tired. You've been "playing" all day, and you're clearly not going to fall asleep in your cushy bed back in Sweetwater this evening. Suddenly, terrifying dinosaur-animal-hell noises start echoing from the hills and people in goddamn skull masks rush you. Yeah, okay, I get it—I'm terrified now. It's like being in one of those big professional-grade haunted houses, except so much worse.

I also dig how Teddy got to be a total badass and pull off some kind of awesome six-shot combo on the cultists...and it didn't matter. As the marshall said, they're beyond pain and they think they're already dead. So maybe they're actually unkillable—like, Ford has tweaked 'em so that their "death threshold" or whatever is super duper high. I dug it.

And...poor Teddy. He really is the Kenny of this show. We should start taking bets on the manner of his demise in each episode.

Annalee and I were IMing yesterday about Ford's office, too—I said I loved it, she said (rightfully) that it's the office of a crazy person, filled with heads and parts and things. We also both twigged to the almost ludicrous over-the-top crazy of having a near-sentient AI robot whose sole purpose is to play background music. The "self-playing piano" motif, extended to its extreme. It's actually...really, really depressing.

I've always had the Asimov influence...the Three Laws should be a given, especially in something like Westworld.

This episode just throws that down the stairs, laughing manically like Richard Widmark in "Kiss Of Death"

And yes, OMG...THEY KILLED TEDDY! should be a drinking game.

 

[taraba]

There's hints of Arnold being a ghost in the machine. I don't know if it's from the old dormant programming that he put in there or something still persists in other ways. They talked about the one host speaking with Arnold. I don't know if that's who Delores spoke with when she went out to dig up the gun. I wouldn't be surprised if Arnold is still alive though, even if he's only a brain in a jar hooked up to a computer at the end of the maze. Probably more like a transferred consciousness to a single computer or distributed across many computers in the park.

 

[taraba]

Also what's people's thoughts on STDs in the park? They mentioned that Thandie Newton's character had a staph infection so there's some living tissue to the hosts. Are people getting the clap from their trip to Westworld?

 

[Schizoid]

taraba[/url]":2alljimy]Also what's people's thoughts on STDs in the park? They mentioned that Thandie Newton's character had a staph infection so there's some living tissue to the hosts. Are people getting the clap from their trip to Westworld?

Maybe that's a part of the allure, if the outside world is aseptic and boring. It could also help explain why guests need time to "decompress" -- antibiotic treatments?

 

[BDoN]

taraba[/url]"u5tsf3y]Also what's people's thoughts on STDs in the park? They mentioned that Thandie Newton's character had a staph infection so there's some living tissue to the hosts. Are people getting the clap from their trip to Westworld?

My fiance brought up the same point. She basically said "so these people go to the park and have sex with elaborate sex dolls that other people have used?" My only reaction was that given how elaborate the hosts are, how is it different than any other individual who has had sex with multiple partners? (Especially in the case of the prostitutes).

To specifically speculate on your question though, I would hope their regular maintenance schedule includes some industrial grade cleaning agents.

 

[FishInABarrel]

taraba[/url]":1ac9l2r9]Also what's people's thoughts on STDs in the park? They mentioned that Thandie Newton's character had a staph infection so there's some living tissue to the hosts. Are people getting the clap from their trip to Westworld?

These things were designed. If you're engineering a sex-bot prostitute, self-sterilization would be an obvious requirement.

 

[taraba]

FishInABarrel[/url]":tgjcxaak]

taraba[/url]":tgjcxaak]Also what's people's thoughts on STDs in the park? They mentioned that Thandie Newton's character had a staph infection so there's some living tissue to the hosts. Are people getting the clap from their trip to Westworld?

These things were designed. If you're engineering a sex-bot prostitute, self-sterilization would be an obvious requirement.

Then why does Thandie Newton have a MRSA infection if she self-sterilizes?

 

[Voldenuit]

FishInABarrel[/url]":37zrbjzf]

taraba[/url]":37zrbjzf]Also what's people's thoughts on STDs in the park? They mentioned that Thandie Newton's character had a staph infection so there's some living tissue to the hosts. Are people getting the clap from their trip to Westworld?

These things were designed. If you're engineering a sex-bot prostitute, self-sterilization would be an obvious requirement.

Ford is Bender. He got sick of (insert noun), and went off to create his *own* theme park, with blackjack and hookers.

 

[Ronin007]

BDoN[/url]":12ay2zzi]

taraba[/url]":12ay2zzi]Also what's people's thoughts on STDs in the park? They mentioned that Thandie Newton's character had a staph infection so there's some living tissue to the hosts. Are people getting the clap from their trip to Westworld?

My fiance brought up the same point. She basically said "so these people go to the park and have sex with elaborate sex dolls that other people have used?" My only reaction was that given how elaborate the hosts are, how is it different than any other individual who has had sex with multiple partners? (Especially in the case of the prostitutes).

That's the point of robots/androids/etc - they serve as a dropin replacement for a race/class/creed that suffers abuse while being subservient. It's a case of "paradoxical thinking" that, if things are not OK for a robot - why should the same be happening to someone who is flesh & blood?

In the second episode, the greeter responds to William's curiosity if she is a host or guest... Her response is "If you can't tell, does it matter?" I'm sure members of the transgender community ask the same...

 

[eyhk]

What I find scary as heck is that Wyatt's gang are apparently on the approved list(like the stray) for using weapons, which aren't guest proof like guns.

 

[the_great_ganonderp]

Schizoid[/url]":3d0865jd]Ford's office reminded me of Tyrell's in Bladerunner.

It reminded me of J.F. Sebastian's (the inventor) home.

I'm getting a serious Colonel Kurtz vibe from this Wyatt character and his minions, which is fun. Overall really enjoying the show. My one complaint is that I wish they'd stop beating us over the head explaining again and again that the hosts are acting "off script". We get it, and presumably so do all the characters in the show at this point. They're doing a good job showing us the various manifestations of whatever's going on, which continues to be interesting, but I think the showing is being diminished somewhat by the telling.

That's a super nitpick though.

 

[Guise]

One wacky theory kicking around in my brain:

Ford is a sentient bot, created by Arnold. He killed Arnold and the real Ford, altered his appearance, took over the show and is now working on his master plan. Methinks he doth protest too much about the bots being "real", while at the same time gradually introducing rogue code. This also explains why he kicks it with bots in his spare time.

 

[sep332]

Ford's character is too inconsistent, one minute cutting a host for no reason, the next showing empathy and saying "the least we can do for them is make them forget." Uh, weren't you the one who put in the Reveries?

Also the tech is back to being annoying. You can diagnose a host just by asking it questions, or use some sweet glasses to get into the details, and upload a whole backstory with the push of a button. But for this one, they had to physically track him down and get his head??

 

[the_great_ganonderp]

sep332[/url]":1k3sgwvq]Ford's character is too inconsistent, one minute cutting a host for no reason, the next showing empathy and saying "the least we can do for them is make them forget." Uh, weren't you the one who put in the Reveries?

I think the point might be that the hosts really don't care about sitting nude in the workshop, and the damage from getting cut really is superficial and causes no pain or suffering. It makes sense that they'd be designed this way.

If they're to some extent conscious beings, though (and maybe they have to be to be convincing when they improvise) then psychological suffering from e.g. a "loved one" dying could be something that they do feel, and maybe engineering out that aspect of their minds would make them less convincing, so it has to stay.

So, Ford might rightly empathize with them in a subset of the situations where he'd empathize with a real human. I think the saving grace for them is that they are reset every day, which means they don't suffer lasting psychological harm from the horrible things that happen to them. Dolores is starting to remember outside her loop, so she won't be protected in that way anymore.

 

[Baron von Robber]

I got a kick out of the self-playing piano playing "Paint it Black" and "Black Hole Sun" in E1, but I've not recognized any songs in E2 or E3 yet.

 

[Ronin007]

Zombie expansion pack? More like typical horror narrative... Almost all the hosts die, leaving the guest(s) to escape scared witless ...the first time. Which also explains why Teddy could not fight them off.

Speaking of Teddy, the backstory bit was rather meta to me because that's the case for any actor performing a role. Lots of commentary I've listened to recounts actors being given a situation and talk to the director and/or writer about why the role is to react such a way in a given scene. So they create a backstory for the actor to draw from, that likely will never been seen on film (or known about if it weren't for the commentary).

No mention of Arnold, who had a mysterious accident and died in the park? A transfer of consciousness to MiB supports the theory that MiB is a host (was originally), which would also explain the funds to be able to visit the park as often assuming access to Arnold's estate. And why bullets in ep 2 did not phase him like William - still, MiB being an experienced player it could be clothing. Of the MiB details, the bullets is the easiest to explain away.

I didn't find Ford's office strange or depressing - it looked like the office to demonstrate aspects of his work. Which why a fully functional host would be there. As I posted in the comments for the previous episode - focusing on park details is minutiae, because logically it doesn't make sense to provide the experience. It can be either a TV show, or a physical park - not both.

What I found interesting is that Ford outright confirmed that the park exists above the offices, and this is the second time staff used an elevator to access it (this time for the stray). Like how cold storage is a lower level and appears to have been repurposed rather than purpose built. There's an aspect of Dante's Inferno...

 

[tangerinecheese]

Technical feedback, decrypted seems to be a fair bit quieter than other podcasts I listen to, could the base volume be increased a bit? I have to use an fm Bluetooth adapter to listen in my work vehicle and having to turn up decrypted means hearing more static as well. Thank you.

 

[Ronin007]

Baron von Robber[/url]":1irqk3h3]I got a kick out of the self-playing piano playing "Paint it Black" and "Black Hole Sun" in E1, but I've not recognized any songs in E2 or E3 yet.

Radiohead - No Surprises plays on the pianola in ep 2.

http://www.lyricsoundtrack.com/tv-shows ... usic-songs

The AI piano player is play Debussy's "Reverie" - not a contemporary piece.

 

[marsilies]

Baron von Robber[/url]":2dnfqkzy]I got a kick out of the self-playing piano playing "Paint it Black" and "Black Hole Sun" in E1, but I've not recognized any songs in E2 or E3 yet.

It played "No Surprises" by Radiohead in the second episode. Not sure about E3:
http://www.lyricsoundtrack.com/tv-shows ... usic-songs

Here's an article about the process they go through to cut new rolls for the songs, which play back on an actual player piano:
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/10/ ... ttraction/

 

[the_great_ganonderp]

Ronin007[/url]":3a62qhw0]Zombie expansion pack? More like typical horror narrative... Almost all the hosts die, leaving the guest(s) to escape scared witless ...the first time. Which also explains why Teddy could not fight them off.

Speaking of Teddy, the backstory bit was rather meta to me because that's the case for any actor performing a role. Lots of commentary I've listened to recounts actors being given a situation and talk to the director and/or writer about why the role is to react such a way in a given scene. So they create a backstory for the actor to draw from, that likely will never been seen on film (or known about if it weren't for the commentary).

No mention of Arnold, who had a mysterious accident and died in the park? A transfer of consciousness to MiB supports the theory that MiB is a host (was originally), which would also explain the funds to be able to visit the park as often assuming access to Arnold's estate. And why bullets in ep 2 did not phase him like William - still, MiB being an experienced player it could be clothing. Of the MiB details, the bullets is the easiest to explain away.

I didn't find Ford's office strange or depressing - it looked like the office to demonstrate aspects of his work. Which why a fully functional host would be there. As I posted in the comments for the previous episode - focusing on park details is minutiae, because logically it doesn't make sense to provide the experience. It can be either a TV show, or a physical park - not both.

What I found interesting is that Ford outright confirmed that the park exists above the offices, and this is the second time staff used an elevator to access it (this time for the stray). Like how cold storage is a lower level and appears to have been repurposed rather than purpose built. There's an aspect of Dante's Inferno...

Continuing with the Biblical analogies... if Arnold's consciousness really was somehow transferred into a machine, MiB or not, there could be some parallels with the story of Lucifer getting chucked out of Heaven into the depths of Tartarus. There are a lot of things in the show supporting this sort of interpretation, e.g. the aspect of Dante's Inferno you mention, the "control center" being up on a sort of Mount Olympus, the creation of the hosts (and park) by some combination of Ford and Arnold (?), and so on. I would love for someone more literate than me to take a serious crack at such an analysis.

 

[oldblue137]

taraba[/url]":3h2j3gqn]There's hints of Arnold being a ghost in the machine. I don't know if it's from the old dormant programming that he put in there or something still persists in other ways. They talked about the one host speaking with Arnold. I don't know if that's who Delores spoke with when she went out to dig up the gun. I wouldn't be surprised if Arnold is still alive though, even if he's only a brain in a jar hooked up to a computer at the end of the maze. Probably more like a transferred consciousness to a single computer or distributed across many computers in the park.

I really hope they don't do the ghost in the machine bit. I feel it's important to the story for the host conscience to emerge on its own or as a consequence of mistakes made by people. Introducing a pre-formed conscience (as opposed to an emergent one) into the story that just takes care of that for the hosts would feel like a cheap way out. Though I entirely agree that Arnold might not be dead, I don't think they are going to go the uploaded conscience route.

Also, remember that the hosts were not speaking to Arnold. They may have used his name or even heard the sound of his voice, but the source of the dialog was internal. They were talking to themselves, but per the Bicameral Mind theory they introduced, the hosts would behave or even believe the dialog was external to them (which is probably why Delores was able to pull the trigger, she received an "external" voice command from an admin allowing her to do so).

 

[osiramon]

Who is the robot among the humans?

I think the better question is did Arthur experiment and move his conscience into a robot. Perhaps this is the source of the reveries, or the reason they become.

 

[rhagu]

Maybe Ford still tries to create sentient beings, his ways are just more subtle than Arnolds? He gives them updates and external stimulus to force them to evolve.

 

[Ronin007]

oldblue137[/url]":karhdotq]...remember that the hosts were not speaking to Arnold. They may have used his name or even heard the sound of his voice, but the source of the dialog was internal. They were talking to themselves, but per the Bicameral Mind theory they introduced, the hosts would behave or even believe the dialog was external to them (which is probably why Delores was able to pull the trigger, she received an "external" voice command from an admin allowing her to do so).

No, Elsie specifically made point of the fact the aberrant hosts in the milk shootout were carrying a conversation with someone named Arnold. The conversation appears one-sided to us, like a cellphone conversation would. Bernard's voice is heavily used in Dolores scenes, but it's a misdirection as the subtitles say "man's voice" and it's heavily implied that these hosts are hearing Arnold, a former partner of Ford's who died under suspicious circumstances in the park.

 

[alastairmayer]

taraba[/url]":33vd7zup]I didn't think Ford's office was of a crazy person. It looked like the office of an engineer / maker to me.

You say that like there's a difference.

But yeah, it looked like a normal office for someone whose passion is humanoid robotics.