Dan Amrich: more will leave Infinity Ward, lose bonus

The war of words between Activision and the fired heads of Infinity Ward continues, with Activision's Dan Amrich saying bonus money will come to IW employees... if they're willing to stick around. The takeaway? He expects more people to leave.

<a href='http://meincmagazine.com/gaming/news/2010/04/dan-amrich-more-will-leave-infinity-ward-lose-bonus.ars'>Read the whole story</a>

 

[M4EOzzy]

"I'd think if you are young and hungry and have a vision for a new game, IW would be a really good place to be right now." -Dan Amrich

Yeah, except visions of new games have no place at Activision or IW. It's CoD, you follow the CoD formula, crank out the CoD games, or else you're out. Gee, can't imagine why creative talent wouldn't want to work there. As if IW will ever be allowed to do something different...

 

[mdt]

The problem with Activision management is that it often comes down to money over talent, and no one realizes that the promise of hypothetical future bonuses is enough to get people to stay. There is also the small detail that Call of Duty is set to be, as Kotick has said in the past, "exploited."

I think that should be : and no one realizes that the promise of hypothetical future bonuses is NOT enough to get people to stay

 

[Nagumo]

Is anyone really surprised at the current state of affairs? MW2 felt stripped down and hyper-stylized compared to MW (an already action heavy game). Features for MP were stripped and the overall scope diminished significantly. I can't help but feel this was Activision's hand at play, and part of the reason our illustrious founders decided they wanted to work elsewhere. Activision's actions in firing them were rather distasteful, and Activision's agenda to rob the creators of their work is outright disgusting. I hope the best talent at IW continues to jump from that sinking ship before Activision can truly run the franchise into the ground as they seem so determined to do. If we're lucky Zampell and West will win their lawsuit and Activision won't get to continue using the name we recognize so well.

 

[Viking ZX]

If you...

...have a vision for a new game...

...that happens to be a complete carbon copy/shameless exploitation of a current game we have already published which you will probably never receive decent monetary compensation for anyway, come work for Activision!

Personally, if you...

...have a vision for a new game...

...its probably best for you to go work for someone else. This is directed intentional marketing hyperbole intended to attract new "talent" to Activision that can be slave shopped for the next milking. If you want to do something new, find a better studio.

 

[S8Grules]

I have several friends that work for other game studios, and when I ask them about this they all say they've heard horror stories about how Activision treats their developers and that there's no way they'd work there. This industry is very close knit, and Activision is going to have a hard time convincing the best talent to work for them.

 

[BarnabyJones]

Gaming publishers. Not that much different from big record labels. Could care less about the developers (musicians), could care less about the people playing the games (listening to the music).

Evil, evil, evil...

 

[Flynn Arrowstarr]

I miss the old Activision from the early1980s -- rogue programmers fresh from Atari that decided quality and recognizing the developers was more important. Sadly, that company hasn't existed in a long time. =(

Flynn

 

[pavon]

I'm confused, because by leaving, they are giving up their bonus—and the more people that leave, the bigger the bonus gets for the people who stay.

I'm not convinced that will stand up to legal scrutiny in the end. I seriously doubt that Activision is giving these folks bonuses out of the goodness of their heart. If at some point they promised bonuses, and unless that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

More likely, it could be that Activision never promised the developers a bonus, just West and Zampella. Now that they have left and are assured to be awarded the bonuses in court, Activision is trying to spin it as West and Zampella stealing the bonus money in an attempt to turn the remaining team against them.

Either way, leaving or staying will not affect whether the developers are entitled to the bonus, and it is just a bullshit lie to keep people from leaving. Not going to work.

 

[Ancalagon]

Doesnt anyone think, if Zampella and West were really withholding that money for themselves, few if any former IW staff would have followed them to Respawn Entertainment?

Activision's business ethics, or lack thereof, have come home to roost now. One of their most profitable studios (and I hate to use the word profitable rather than the phrase most talented) has lost a good portion of its talent, as well as its brand strength. And highlighted dubious business practices at Activision.

 

[Jackattak]

I miss the old Activision from the early1980s -- rogue programmers fresh from Atari that decided quality and recognizing the developers was more important. Sadly, that company hasn't existed in a long time. =( Flynn

Pitfall, FTW.

 

[matzon]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++

it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

 

[Viking ZX]

I have several friends that work for other game studios, and when I ask them about this they all say they've heard horror stories about how Activision treats their developers and that there's no way they'd work there. This industry is very close knit, and Activision is going to have a hard time convincing the best talent to work for them.

Yeah, this seems like a weak, thinly veiled shot at up and coming workers just getting out of college rather then anyone in the industry who knows what's going on. Sad thing is, it'll probably work. I know guys that are getting programmer degrees who know nothing about these sorts of issues who would probably jump at the chance to work with a big name co like Activision.

 

[Glav]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++

it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

Most places, if you're not on the payroll when a bonus is delivered, you don't get it, even if the work you did while employed directly contributed to that bonus.

 

[Acert93]

This kind of hit me: Could it be significant bonuses are tied to residual sales and Activision is essential cost cutting for their new direction with the franchise(s). It appears March had a significant deadline for bonuses from initial sales--could this all be Activisions ploy to gut the studio to avoid paying residual bonus monies? Sure, they have to pony up 2009 monies but MW2 is moving significant units in 2010 as well. If they can cut bonuses in half--as well as cut the 2 biggest bonus getters (W&Z)--and hold up those monies for years Activision wins. They were already determined to move CoD to a pay-to-play model (something IW wanted nothing to do with) and had a tough issue if the MW brand attached to the IW studio. Gutting the studio gives Activision control over MW and cuts off huge amounts of bonuses that can be used for marketing, not to mention employing cheaper labor more compatible with your directive vision.

 

[davidd]

I would think that if Royalties or whatever they are from your work are part of your employment.. You'd still get any you were owed during your employment. And its rofl-copters that Activision is just like "Keeeep waiting a little longer and you'll get your bonuses we PROMISE" Sorry if the bonus money is there and 'gets bigger each time an employee leaves" Just pay it out. Seems sketchy that the payment date for the bonus is so ambiguous as well. You'd think employee's would know "okay after this Quarter you get 5% of sales" or whatever the bonus is.





/Though i dunno the language used for the bonus offer. Maybe they do forfeit it by not staying around.

 

[TheAce-MGT]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++

it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

Most places, if you're not on the payroll when a bonus is delivered, you don't get it, even if the work you did while employed directly contributed to that bonus.

It is odd in the strictest sense. I mean the work you did is why there is bonuses to begin with. But as you said, it is common practice to only distribute bonuses to employees still employed at that particular time.

Now specific people may have clauses in their contracts stating that they will receive X for Y product, which may be regardless of current status with the company, that kind of thing is usually not for the rank and file developers. I've personally only seen it with specialized contractors (as they are usually not with the company when bonuses are handed out).

 

[davis]

In my experience with these types of situations, those that have the real talent will leave for bigger and better, while those that don't, can't, thus sticking around is the best thing they have going for themselves.

 

[sty]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++

it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

Most places, if you're not on the payroll when a bonus is delivered, you don't get it, even if the work you did while employed directly contributed to that bonus.

Not in any of the multinationals I've worked for. If you leave, let's say December, you'll receive your 2H bonus next March regardless where you work or which country you currently reside in. I've heard some pretty funny stories from our accounting department (who heard from the outsourced payroll company) about the lengths they've gone to actually be able to deliver the money.

 

[MesserWolf]

In the end of Infinity Ward will remain just the name

 

[Seraphiel]

Let me make sure I have this right:

So in order to entice people to stay in the "Infinity Ward" offices (let's be honest, IW pretty much walked out the door), Activision is saying that anyone leaving the remains of the studio is walking away from contractually-defined bonuses that Activision itself is currently trying to avoid paying.

"If you leave, we won't pay you the money we owed you already. You know: the money you had to sue us over, that we're going to spend hundreds of very expensive corporate lawyer billable hours to get out of paying you. But, if you stay indefinitely, and we lose in court against your lawyers several years from now, you might get millions of dollars."

What the hell?

 

[Lee L]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++ it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

Most places, if you're not on the payroll when a bonus is delivered, you don't get it, even if the work you did while employed directly contributed to that bonus.

It is odd in the strictest sense. I mean the work you did is why there is bonuses to begin with. But as you said, it is common practice to only distribute bonuses to employees still employed at that particular time. Now specific people may have clauses in their contracts stating that they will receive X for Y product, which may be regardless of current status with the company, that kind of thing is usually not for the rank and file developers. I've personally only seen it with specialized contractors (as they are usually not with the company when bonuses are handed out).

What I can't figure is why are they still holding bonus money for MW2 anyway? That game has been out for months. I understand some waiting after the game has shipped, but the whole thing seems funny to me to be this long after the game is done to still beholding this over peoples heads.

 

[aquasub]

Yeah, this seems like a weak, thinly veiled shot at up and coming workers just getting out of college rather then anyone in the industry who knows what's going on. Sad thing is, it'll probably work. I know guys that are getting programmer degrees who know nothing about these sorts of issues who would probably jump at the chance to work with a big name co like Activision.

Clearly having a job is not really all that important.

 

[Spyplane]

I have a couple of problems with this whole thing. First off, everyone is siding with West and Zampella without even asking "maybe activision was right." They were fired for being suspected in doing deals behind the back of Activision, and guess what when they were fired, the sure had an EA deal lined up pretty quick eh? Okay, so part of that sounds like a reasonable firing to me. Second, yes Activision is famous for working people to death, but so EA / Rockstar / <insert most game companies here>. What is really ironic is that in the game dev community West and Zampella are particularly famous for working their devs to death and probably why no one is signing on yet to their new dev house.

Anyway, everyone in the gaming industry pretty much is evil, but all these stories seem a bit one sided. I'm not an activision fan, and I know no one who works for them.

 

[Riegger]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++ it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

Most places, if you're not on the payroll when a bonus is delivered, you don't get it, even if the work you did while employed directly contributed to that bonus.

It is odd in the strictest sense. I mean the work you did is why there is bonuses to begin with. But as you said, it is common practice to only distribute bonuses to employees still employed at that particular time. Now specific people may have clauses in their contracts stating that they will receive X for Y product, which may be regardless of current status with the company, that kind of thing is usually not for the rank and file developers. I've personally only seen it with specialized contractors (as they are usually not with the company when bonuses are handed out).

What I can't figure is why are they still holding bonus money for MW2 anyway? That game has been out for months. I understand some waiting after the game has shipped, but the whole thing seems funny to me to be this long after the game is done to still beholding this over peoples heads.

At EA, bonus money handouts would be company wide for everyone around about Spring-Summer. Even though most EA games shipped in September or November in time for the holiday season.

 

[Qaz`]

If they can withhold the money once the can withhold again. The game was made, the copies sold, the money made. Time to pay up.

Even if its West an co that's the real bad guys, it's hardly all the other employees fault, and taking their money hardly make Activision the good guys...

Even if there is room in the employee royalty agreement for this kind of behavior (I guess it is, or they would some more people would be sued?) you hardly build employee trust by screwing them of on technicalities.

 

[Acert93]

I have a couple of problems with this whole thing. First off, everyone is siding with West and Zampella without even asking "maybe activision was right." They were fired for being suspected in doing deals behind the back of Activision, and guess what when they were fired, the sure had an EA deal lined up pretty quick eh? Okay, so part of that sounds like a reasonable firing to me. Second, yes Activision is famous for working people to death, but so EA / Rockstar / <insert most game companies here>. What is really ironic is that in the game dev community West and Zampella are particularly famous for working their devs to death and probably why no one is signing on yet to their new dev house. Anyway, everyone in the gaming industry pretty much is evil, but all these stories seem a bit one sided. I'm not an activision fan, and I know no one who works for them.

1- Activision has pretty much been shooting themselves in the foot on this one.
2- Activision doesn't own employees. As noted in other news snippets contracts were up in March for many IW employees and they have right to seek employment.
3- Z&W are highly regarded and one of the biggest publishers setting up a funding agreement isn't hard to fathom (see: industry full of upstarts founded by premier dev names(
4- And to top it all off, so far Respawn has hired a number of people, including 11 former IW staff members.
As for your comment that everyone in the industry is evil--or having a pulse on knowing anything about Z&W--pretty much a big eye roll there. Really, and you know this how?

 

[MindWerks]

Activision is treating this like a fire fighter battling a fire. Using the "Potential" of money to slow down the loss of experience and know how. If they can't slow the loss it will grow worse till all they are left with is a burned out building. I don't know if Activition treats their employees like a cheap commodity, but if the employees do feel that they are you can expect a lot more jumping ship. It's hard to buy employee loyalty when the company lacks loyalty to the employees. Personally I'd rather have a new stable position full of opportunities to the hemorrhaging death spiral due to mismanagement.

After they cut the lawyer fees from the money, "IF" they even win the court case, the check will probably not amount to as much as everyone thinks.

 

[driver01z]

I have a couple of problems with this whole thing. First off, everyone is siding with West and Zampella without even asking "maybe activision was right." They were fired for being suspected in doing deals behind the back of Activision, and guess what when they were fired, the sure had an EA deal lined up pretty quick eh? Okay, so part of that sounds like a reasonable firing to me. Second, yes Activision is famous for working people to death, but so EA / Rockstar / <insert most game companies here>. What is really ironic is that in the game dev community West and Zampella are particularly famous for working their devs to death and probably why no one is signing on yet to their new dev house. Anyway, everyone in the gaming industry pretty much is evil, but all these stories seem a bit one sided. I'm not an activision fan, and I know no one who works for them.

This is where I am. My knee-jerk reaction is to keep Activision on my semi-boycott list, and to support Respawn fully if they make a good game. However I still don't know the details - did those two guys really cause trouble and Activision was right in firing them? Are both sides guilty of bad behaviour? I don't know yet - Ars, please keep covering this drama, especially if anything is decided in court, and I'd love a personal opinion thrown in on what y'all think.

 

[FreeRadical*]

The links in this and related articles give an interesting picture of what is going on.

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/articles/1074655 ... 18185.html

Two weeks before the royalties were to be paid the two head of Infinity Ward were fired. Apparently they were given the independence to develop the games and control over the brand of Modern Warfare. Activision appears to want control now and part of that was giving the bonuses to the IW employees themselves instead of giving it to IW to give out. West and Zampella, the two heads of IW were uncooperative with Activisions attempt to change the understanding of how compensation would be dispensed and who controlled the brand.

I am trying to remain objective, but reading both the West and Zampella lawsuit and Activisions counter-suit paints a bad picture of Activision.

 

[axia777]

I miss the old Activision from the early1980s -- rogue programmers fresh from Atari that decided quality and recognizing the developers was more important. Sadly, that company hasn't existed in a long time. =(

Flynn

This.

 

[coslie]

Withholding bonuses all by itself is a pretty good way of getting people to leave. At a factory I worked at while I was at university, some jackass at head office delayed the "Christmas" bonuses by a few months. Everyone was so mad I almost got the place unionized because of it. (And I don't even like unions)

 

[Locoman]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++ it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

Most places, if you're not on the payroll when a bonus is delivered, you don't get it, even if the work you did while employed directly contributed to that bonus.

Not in any of the multinationals I've worked for. If you leave, let's say December, you'll receive your 2H bonus next March regardless where you work or which country you currently reside in. I've heard some pretty funny stories from our accounting department (who heard from the outsourced payroll company) about the lengths they've gone to actually be able to deliver the money.

This has been my experience as well. Bonuses earned and vacation time accrued are part of my compensation, and I have always been paid for these. It was a nice surprise getting a bonus check in the mail a month after leaving Motorola. Last month I got a 5 year service award from a company I left 6 months before - they closed the factory but still paid out the bonus.

 

[MindWerks]

I'm just thinking... that if West and Zampella wanted to be really devious, and put a torpedo in Activition's boat, they would put out a press release stating that if they won the court case they would dispense the money to the project members working there at the time, regardless of where they currently work. This would make Activition work a WHOLE lot harder to keep their talent, potentially crippling a competitor... It's what I might be tempted to do if I was them.

 

[usku]

Wow. Entitlement galore here.

A bonus is just that.

A bonus. Its never assured.

Where I work, I need to make certain targets, and the company needs to make certain targets.

If that doesn't happen, no bonus for Usku. I would venture that most bonuses work that way.

 

[Demondeluxe]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy this activision drama. Not that I am certain that it will stop Bobby Kotick's reign of terror, but anything that gives him and activision bad press makes me smile. Of course we are talking about the kind of guy that will break into your house, steal your wallet, sodomize your house cat and then wipe his dick off on your drapes before pissing in your fridge. It amazes me that he has not been fired yet, if nothing else because gamers hate the fucker, and he makes the company look bad. Of course maybe they tried to, and he broke into their house, stole their wallet, sodomized their house cat, and wiped his dick on their drapes before peeing in their fridge. I can only imagine they the other board members are terrified of what Kotick might do to their kids if they try to fire his ass.

 

[Viking ZX]

that agreement specifically requires the employees to stay for a specified amount of time then the ones that have left are as entitled to their bonus as the ones that stayed.

++ it sounds odd that you are required to stay for a time AFTER you delivered your work resource, to collect the bonus

Most places, if you're not on the payroll when a bonus is delivered, you don't get it, even if the work you did while employed directly contributed to that bonus.

Not in any of the multinationals I've worked for. If you leave, let's say December, you'll receive your 2H bonus next March regardless where you work or which country you currently reside in. I've heard some pretty funny stories from our accounting department (who heard from the outsourced payroll company) about the lengths they've gone to actually be able to deliver the money.

This has been my experience as well. Bonuses earned and vacation time accrued are part of my compensation, and I have always been paid for these. It was a nice surprise getting a bonus check in the mail a month after leaving Motorola. Last month I got a 5 year service award from a company I left 6 months before - they closed the factory but still paid out the bonus.

GAAP holds that cash is accounted for in the period in which the service was rendered must be accounted for when the service is rendered, even if the cash isn't in hand until 3 months later. In other words, Activision reported $800,000 (example number) of sales and cash in hand when they sold $800,000 of games, not when they actually got the money. So it seems that logically, if you worked for Activision when they made the money from the game, you're entitled to the bonus, even if you leave 5 months later and it takes them 7 months to get around to paying you. By GAAP rules, Activisions should have already accounted for both revenue made off of MW2 and bonuses to be distributed if they intended to pay a bonus for work done. The work is done, the bonus should already be entered into the system, and you cannot go back and change that without being guilty of shareholder and financial fraud. Now if Activision never declared any bonuses at all it is a different story. But if they already did, they should have been in the system a while ago.

Hmmm....makes me want to see if they have a public Audit report. Watch out shareholders! Greed coming through!

 

[JPan]

Where I work, I need to make certain targets, and the company needs to make certain targets.

those guys made the biggest selling north american computer game and made hundreds and hundreds of millions for Activision. Which targets do you think they didn't meet?

 

[Demondeluxe]

Where I work, I need to make certain targets, and the company needs to make certain targets.

those guys made the biggest selling north american computer game and made hundreds and hundreds of millions for Activision. Which targets do you think they didn't meet?

There was probably something in the contract about gargling Kotick's balls, or offering up their children to him as sex slaves, and food (not necessarily in that order), or maybe they just wouldn't let Kotick pee on them during their afternoon break like he enjoys doing. Hell nobody can argue that they didn't come through in the profits department, but they are working for Bobby Kotick, he is far more interested in crushing your spirit, stealing your soul, and raping your grandfathers corpse. Maybe they just weren't playing the team Bobby way.

 

[one8kevin]

Where I work, I need to make certain targets, and the company needs to make certain targets.

those guys made the biggest selling north american computer game and made hundreds and hundreds of millions for Activision. Which targets do you think they didn't meet?

heh, I was gonna say the same thing. I'm pretty sure they developed the best selling game ever for the time that it's been out on the market. That's not meeting a target, more like becoming the target.