Court orders restart of all US offshore wind construction

Trump admin's "it's classified" ploy put on hold in five different cases.

See full article...

 

[Unthinkable537]

It's too late... it doesn't even matter if this restarts these off shore wind projects, just the ability for the current president to announce shit to cause investors in the off shore wind industry to lose millions of dollars per project is enough to drive investors away from future projects...

Meanwhile, we still can't fucking build out HVDC lines to connect thousands of existing renewable energy projects...

This has been a fucking mess (everything during trump's and a good portion of it during biden's)

New HV lines in general are fought in court for years. We have one we're starting building this year in the PACNW that took over a decade to finish the court process. Now mostly that just because Oregon State is insane and have allowed their anti nuclear rules to be abused against all things power utilities. But even in pro industry states like Montana and Idaho I'd say we average 5 years just to get through permits and lawsuits. People want power, but they don't want power lines, generators, substations, windmills, or solar farms to exist in their LOS or even in a general there's hidden power assets somewhere in my state kind of way.

 

[geeohgeegeeoh]

Steelmanning the risks, its the link to mainland as a weakness in supply chain of power, compared to onshore sources possibly. But, the construction is in close water, well inside the exclusive economic zone. You would think passage of a craft capable of causing a power shock with an anchor chain was raising hackles well before this, because it's hugely unusual for a warcraft of another nation to be that close without an explicit permit. Under the Jones act, all inshore commercial craft delivering goods to and from named ports have to be US badged, for international shipping it's clear from the baltic there's a concrete risk, but that's a matter of policing the boats, not banning the structures at risk.

A second steelman might be some belief about the intermittency. Thats easily knocked over because the system as a whole is building out storage and continuity systems, is adapting to a mix of technology with different power availability throughout the day, and of all the sources of power, wind is one of the most easily predicted to a useful window forward. You know roughly when a dunkelflaut is expected inside 48h, if you don't know exactly when, or for how long. Thats well north of the spin-up time for alternative (dirty) sources of power, if your storage capacity isn't there yet to handle it.

 

[Tofystedeth]

When Trump dies, I hope that there is a Hell and his version of it is just filled to the brink with windmills. Starting from the classic Dutch countryside types, all the way up through the largest and most modern turbines. As far as the eye can see, things spinning in the wind.

Of all of his weird and horrible obsessions, this one is maybe not quite the weirdest and definitely not the most horrible (tough competition on that front), but it's up there.

For him, the hell would be all minigolf courses with each hole having a windmill.

 

[Pooga]

Am I being a conspiracy theorist to think that this was 100% because of Big Oil wanting to protect a few more years of profits?

A bit? I mean, I think the intent was to serve Big Oil. Much like the removal of Maduro so Big Oil could take over Venezuelan oil production, the administration acted on their perception of what is good for Big Oil instead of maybe asking anyone in Big Oil what they want.

Most petroleum production goes to sectors where grid electricity isn't a good fit (except when used to charge batteries). Trump may have been thinking he was working on their behalf, but I'd be willing to bet they are wishing he'd stop doing them "favors".

 

[SeanJW]

It's too late... it doesn't even matter if this restarts these off shore wind projects, just the ability for the current president to announce shit to cause investors in the off shore wind industry to lose millions of dollars per project is enough to drive investors away from future projects...

Meanwhile, we still can't fucking build out HVDC lines to connect thousands of existing renewable energy projects...

This has been a fucking mess (everything during trump's and a good portion of it during biden's)

There's always been that ability in all governments - it's called sovereign risk. Reasonable countries get twitchy about increasing it for obvious reasons. But at this point, noone regards the US as reasonable and may never again. It's not just these investments at risk. It's every investment.

 

[rmgoat]

Am I being a conspiracy theorist to think that this was 100% because of Big Oil wanting to protect a few more years of profits?

And coal, Trump is using DOE to FORCE utilities to keep 'end of life' money losing coal power plants operating, including two that have no coal on site because they were scheduled for closure at the end of January, because the utilities decided they were uneconomic. No wonder this moron bankrupted CASINOS (where the house ALWAYS wins).

 

[rynedee23]

When Trump dies, I hope that there is a Hell and his version of it is just filled to the brink with windmills. Starting from the classic Dutch countryside types, all the way up through the largest and most modern turbines. As far as the eye can see, things spinning in the wind.

Of all of his weird and horrible obsessions, this one is maybe not quite the weirdest and definitely not the most horrible (tough competition on that front), but it's up there.

Golf courses everywhere but never an open tee time...

 

[42Kodiak42]

Am I being a conspiracy theorist to think that this was 100% because of Big Oil wanting to protect a few more years of profits?

Your distrust is warranted, but this doesn't line up with profit motivations. If it were just profits, these companies would just buy the renewable generators themselves; nobody's stopping them (except Trump, apparently). Nah, this is the political follow through that comes from building your campaign on top of a bad idea.

 

[el_oscuro]

INB4 Hegseth has all offshore wind turbines shelled and destroyed just to please Der Trumpenfuhrer.

I could see them doing that. They already shelled Interstate 5 between LA and San Diego, and almost took out JD Vance's security detail.

 

[el_oscuro]

When Trump dies, I hope that there is a Hell and his version of it is just filled to the brink with windmills. Starting from the classic Dutch countryside types, all the way up through the largest and most modern turbines. As far as the eye can see, things spinning in the wind.

Of all of his weird and horrible obsessions, this one is maybe not quite the weirdest and definitely not the most horrible (tough competition on that front), but it's up there.

I also hope it includes Electric Boat submarines, crewed by laser armed sharks.

 

[schnackenpfefferhausen]

“If the government’s concern is the operation of these facilities, allowing the ongoing operation of the 44 turbines while prohibiting the repair of the existing turbines and the completion of the 18 additional turbines is irrational,”

Pyrrhic victory if the message they take from this is they have license to shut down operating turbines, too..

 

[numerobis]

You almost have to laugh at how poorly they did their job of trying to claim some sort of national security threat. Did these numpties think all you had to do was wave your hand and say, "Hey Presto National Security-o" or something? This is SovCit levels of dipshittery. Federal judges always get to review the underlying documents even if nobody else is allowed to see them. Filing a claim that the case must be dismissed on NatSec grounds isn't a fucking magic spell. The judges always evaluate such claims for validity. There's got to be something there for the judge to agree, however tenuous that might be.

I can't believe we have to deal with at least another 3 years of these fucking bozos running the nation into the ground.

The insanity is the point — these projects will go forward, but nobody sane is going to invest in the next batch of projects.

Basically like a SLAAP suit, but for major construction projects rather than speech.

 

[Rival Vector Plot]

Shove it petro-fascists.

 

[vantharion]

I'm surprised this article doesn't mention that these are the Orsted wind turbines.
They are the Denmark company and the whole 'US wants Greenland' debacle.

That feels like very relevant context to not include about the political landscape.

 

[saltyfrog]

...ruined the view from his golf course...

Coal combustion can cause smog. Too much mining and there won't be any "view". Or drill for oil, and there will be offshore oil platforms visible in the distance. But I'm sure that won't ruin anything; it'll bring in new club members, for sure.

 

[RZetopan]

You almost have to laugh at how poorly they did their job of trying to claim some sort of national security threat. Did these numpties think all you had to do was wave your hand and say, "Hey Presto National Security-o" or something? This is SovCit levels of dipshittery. Federal judges always get to review the underlying documents even if nobody else is allowed to see them. Filing a claim that the case must be dismissed on NatSec grounds isn't a fucking magic spell. The judges always evaluate such claims for validity. There's got to be something there for the judge to agree, however tenuous that might be.

I can't believe we have to deal with at least another 3 years of these fucking bozos running the nation into the ground.

Well, it worked for the secret documents he stole from the WH. He declared that they were his to take, yet he still isn't serving time in prison.

 

[N-body]

You almost have to laugh at how poorly they did their job of trying to claim some sort of national security threat. Did these numpties think all you had to do was wave your hand and say, "Hey Presto National Security-o" or something? This is SovCit levels of dipshittery. Federal judges always get to review the underlying documents even if nobody else is allowed to see them. Filing a claim that the case must be dismissed on NatSec grounds isn't a fucking magic spell. The judges always evaluate such claims for validity. There's got to be something there for the judge to agree, however tenuous that might be.

I can't believe we have to deal with at least another 3 years of these fucking bozos running the nation into the ground.

Unfortunately the Supreme Court has ruled that almost complete deference must be made to "respecting election results" and thus the validity of the conclusions may not be judged unless there are massive internal inconsistencies, like here.
If the administration changes tack and orders them all dismantled immediately in the name of "national security", the judges' hands are going to be tied.

 

[RZetopan]

Golf courses everywhere but never an open tee time...

How about holes located miles apart and no golf carts anywhere. Lard ass would cry a flood.

 

[badboybubby]

its nearly 2am in the UK, 63% of the UKs electricity is coming from wind and only 11% from fossil fuels, gas powered turbines.

my EV is charging and it will cost £6/$8.21 to full charge and my tarrif is 100% green fuel.

at some point in the very near future EVs are going to have Vehicle to Grid. So my EV can store power over night and then feed back during the following early evening to balance the grid when demand goes up, then it can charge again at midnight. my EV can store about 6 days worth of electricity for my house. Imagine if even half the EVs could feed back during high demand, we could balance the grid with the products many of us already have. it only takes software in the car and the charger.

this is how we beat the reliance on gas and oil. clean, domestic and cheap. all within touching distance.

 

[MrFission]

I heard windmills are destroying government drones, which surely begs the attention of national security. - birds aren't real

 

[kirkaiya]

While it's likely that these projects will eventually get across the finish line, the current administration has ended offshore wind in the US going forward. Originally these projects were just the first wave and as the infrastructure got built, costs would go down and more projects would follow. But now, any significant offshore wind is gone for a generation. No one in their right mind will invest in any follow-up projects.

All the investment in deep water ports, ships, holding areas, crew and training will wither away. That's the intention of these legal obstacles. The process is the punishment. These few might slip through, taking a decent economic hit, but no others will make it.

I'm not so sure it will be dead for a generation - three years from now, Trump will be out of office, and even if some other Republican manages to win in 2028 (which doesn't seem particularly likely), that person isn't going to have Trump's bizarre anti-windmill fetish. The potential profits from offshore wind will still be there, and the companies that build them who survive the next 32 months (presumably the same companies building the current installations that the courts unblocked) can then start projects again. And since the ban on permitting was already thrown out as being "arbitrary and capricious", they can continue the process of at least getting applications in.

It's definitely a bad thing that we're losing 3 - 4 years of wind power development, but I don't believe it will be a generation.

 

[GKH]

Trump himself has repeatedly made false statements about the cost of wind power, its use around the world, and its environmental impact.

There are no facts in dispute here. The problem is that Scotland had the temerity to build some windmills that spoiled our dear leader's view as he waddled around his gold course.

All of the cost from this and related stupidity, be it opportunity, monetary, time, or other, are 100% because a man-child didn't get his way has been throwing a decades-long tantrum over it. There are no Very Good Points to be discussed, only fawning boot licking cover for the American President's unhinged screeching over his hurt fee-fees.

 

[j00ce]

A ray of hope with the judicial system?

It's certainly a breath of fresh air!

 

[Derecho Imminent]

And coal, Trump is using DOE to FORCE utilities to keep 'end of life' money losing coal power plants operating, including two that have no coal on site because they were scheduled for closure at the end of January, because the utilities decided they were uneconomic. No wonder this moron bankrupted CASINOS (where the house ALWAYS wins).

They should just tell him "We are closed. If you want to run the plant using ICE then give it a go. Good luck and God bless".

 

[SportivoA]

Am I being a conspiracy theorist to think that this was 100% because of Big Oil wanting to protect a few more years of profits?

For some of the material about how real that protectionism is: https://www.climatedevlab.brown.edu/anti-offshorewindnetwork
And how that sunshine results in additional threats: https://www.browndailyherald.com/ar...over-research-about-anti-offshore-wind-groups

 

[RunUpHill]

Meanwhile, China forges ahead...

26-megawatt monster wind turbine debuts

 

[numerobis]

I'm not so sure it will be dead for a generation - three years from now, Trump will be out of office, and even if some other Republican manages to win in 2028 (which doesn't seem particularly likely), that person isn't going to have Trump's bizarre anti-windmill fetish. The potential profits from offshore wind will still be there, and the companies that build them who survive the next 32 months (presumably the same companies building the current installations that the courts unblocked) can then start projects again. And since the ban on permitting was already thrown out as being "arbitrary and capricious", they can continue the process of at least getting applications in.

It's definitely a bad thing that we're losing 3 - 4 years of wind power development, but I don't believe it will be a generation.

A generation probably not, but a decade easily. All the businesses and know-how and infrastructure developed to put up this first wave of offshore wind projects will dissipate. It will require building up almost from scratch again.

 

[ISUAero1986]

It is all personal by tRump and his moronic ass kissing baboon minions just try and please the master as he pees on them. National Security stuff is all BS.

 

[freaq]

It will still result in a chilling effect for new windfarm installations.

I mean good these get finished but the bigger deal is all the ones that now will never come to pass.

 

[TheArsTrev]

For him, the hell would be all minigolf courses with each hole having a windmill.

The mini golf course he'll bury Melania in?

 

[Nilt]

That isn't actually always true. Judges sometimes are refused access to classified materials. The government tries to initially do this more frequently than ends up happening, but it still happens. They often don't have to furnish such things to a judge, but that leaves the court with few options in how to proceed. One option - which the government typically wishes for - is exactly what you're mocking: Trust me bro, my word is unquestionable. That doesn't bode well for a legitimate legal system though, so courts might either dismiss evidence, testimony, claims, motions or entire cases unless and until access is granted, or even rule summarily for the other side. If access is granted, there may be limits on further disclosure, such as to the other side, but again that gets into "why even have courts" territory quickly. But sometimes courts do just do what the state wants. When this happens they usually just "defer" - something this SCOTUS has been doing a lot with this administration and with politically aligned suits (incidentally of course, paucity of legal reasoning and contradictory opinions and such notwithstanding).

But even if the government would eventually fail with these motions if things were seen through, there can still be gains for malignant actors in the attempt. The state is powerful, resourceful, and patient, so the other side may give up. Delays cause harm no matter what happens. There may be a "compromise" where the administration or officials get other things they want by applying this coercive leverage. Other times an artificial impasse created by a state party sing its privileges and sway with the courts to hide and protect itself can last a very long time and the goal is simply in perpetuating secrecy, such as covering for wrongs. In politics and business, and in case of liability, these can be just as good as getting one's way with the court.

If Trump's goal is to hurt sustainable energy efforts, political opponents and "enemy" states, and dissuade projects and investment and damage companies, then he has partially succeeded.

They might refuse to provide the materials but they can't do the, "You're not cleared for it" thing as any real legal defense. Federal judges are literally exempt form the requirement for such a clearance when it's needed and if they request a clearance anyhow, the relevant statute says that the clearance shall be issued. So if a judge doesn't rule on the lack of evidence as was essentially done here, that's a bad judge, not a bad system.

 

[Geburtenfresser]

Equinor and Ørsted stocks going up! Good to see some environmentally conscious investors getting some good news

 

[Narayana]

You're correct that it's the whipsaw on again of again rules and regulations that's really discouraging investment, see the up and down tax incentives and amount of renewables installed. But that's for expanding industries and all it did was slow them down. But let's look to the hopefully more reasonable future. Think what doing this sort of thing could do to the coal industry. This week we're halting all coal mining to review safety standards in mines, there's been a lot of historical violations and those kill miners. Nest week? We'll be stopping all transportation of coal by rail until the cars can updated with airtight covers to prevent coal dust from blowing off. Then we'll order all coal generators to stop burning coal for...reasons. The courts can overturn all of these things but can a contracting industry survive it?
Then we can start on fossil gas. Export terminals are dangerous and can blow up. Also, exporting gas hurts Merica by raising domestic prices. Wells and pipelines must have (expensive) monitoring equipment for leak detection. And so forth. What country is going to rely on US gas after that?

The unfortunate result of this is not that renewables or wind power is uninvestable ... its that the US is getting more and more uninvestable in general. A sound business owner will stay away from a market that targets specific industries like this ... because next time it could be their specific industry... and this sentiment continues long after the great orange has left the building.

 

[sjl]

The unfortunate result of this is not that renewables or wind power is uninvestable ... its that the US is getting more and more uninvestable in general. A sound business owner will stay away from a market that targets specific industries like this ... because next time it could be their specific industry... and this sentiment continues long after the great orange has left the building.

This is probably the single greatest bit of damage Trump is doing to America. Unreliability is an absolute killer of investor confidence, and Trump's actions have demonstrated that America is not a reliable partner. Even if the GOP are booted out, that uncertainty will remain for decades to come, and will likely be extended every time the GOP come back into power.

It will be interesting to see how things go when the next lot of US government bonds are issued - how much of them are taken up internationally in comparison with historical trends. I'm tipping it'll be significantly lower.

 

[jm_leviathan]

Meanwhile, China forges ahead...

26-megawatt monster wind turbine debuts

See also the Airborne Wind Turbine that looks like something out of Arrival. Really, you just need that Hanz Zimmer BRAAAM...

 

[Power_Struggle]

Americans are paying multiple times for this nonsense. For the lawyers on both sides, for the court system, for clogging up the court system, for the elevated electricity prices, for the uncertainty that will be priced in in future projects.

This isn't a loss for Trump/MAGA/the GOP. Everybody loses. This nonsense makes everybody poorer.

 

[The Geeman]

You almost have to laugh at how poorly they did their job of trying to claim some sort of national security threat. Did these numpties think all you had to do was wave your hand and say, "Hey Presto National Security-o" or something? This is SovCit levels of dipshittery. Federal judges always get to review the underlying documents even if nobody else is allowed to see them. Filing a claim that the case must be dismissed on NatSec grounds isn't a fucking magic spell. The judges always evaluate such claims for validity. There's got to be something there for the judge to agree, however tenuous that might be.

I can't believe we have to deal with at least another 3 years of these fucking bozos running the nation into the ground.

Are you sure it will only be three? I can see at least 7 being established pretty soon! You poor sods!

 

[Duffman3000]

I didn't realise how far behind the US is on off-shore wind power. They have an installed capacity of 174 MW, whilst the UK has 15,600 MW and Germany has 9,000 MW (2024 numbers). Pretty ridiculous

 

[danielravennest]

You almost have to laugh at how poorly they did their job of trying to claim some sort of national security threat.

There are also procedures in place for dealing with national security cases. If it involves foreign intelligence, there is a special court for it, but other national security cases can be handled by regular federal courts, though they may have to clear the people involved if they don't already have clearances and use special handling for documents and evidence.

 

[fancysunrise]

They might refuse to provide the materials but they can't do the, "You're not cleared for it" thing as any real legal defense. Federal judges are literally exempt form the requirement for such a clearance when it's needed and if they request a clearance anyhow, the relevant statute says that the clearance shall be issued. So if a judge doesn't rule on the lack of evidence as was essentially done here, that's a bad judge, not a bad system.

CIPA (Classified Information Procedures Act) doesn't apply to civil cases (most immigration matters, for instance, and certainly wind far permits), and even in criminal ones it gives the state a vague cop-out of sorts where a court may have the government provide the court or other party with a summary or statement about what it claims is classified evidence rather than provide the actual evidence. What this often ends up looking like in practice is "trust me bro" with additional steps.