Cost of T-3 of similar type connection

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general

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  • #1
    Does anyone have an idea of the cost to have something like a T-3 installed in a home office? I know someone who needs LAN (10mbit) type speeds and a little higher if possible. Is T-3 the best option for this. It is for a business, so I realize that there would be significant costs. I'm wondering if anyone has any details on how much they might be.

    Oddly enough, on the internet there is very limited real detail about fast connections to the internet. I'm looking for an idea on ballpark prices. I'm sure there are some ubergeeks around here that dream of connections that big and research prices daily. Hopefully one of you will read this. -- :) --

    Thanks in advance for your help!
     
    Frennzy

    Frennzy

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  • #3
    I know someone who needs LAN (10mbit) type speeds and a little higher if possible. Is T-3 the best option for this
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    No. You can almost certainly get a consumer account that will be "close enough" from regular DSL/Cable/FIOS/etc.

    T3s require special (read: expensive) equipment, and cost a metric fuckload compared to consumer offerings. Further, most providers simply *won't* install that type of thing in a residential facility...because they can't support the SLA it comes with unless they have a CO/MPOP they can get to.

    The last T3 (short haul to ISP colo running at 10Mbit) I had cost on the order of $9k/mo, including ISP fees.

    I had a point-point T3 (10 miles) on the order of $3500/mo (45Mbit) running between two facilities.
     
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    general

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  • #4
    I know he can get 15 mbit fiber from the cable company, but it's shared, so I'm pretty sure he's looking at just a fast cable modem. It will need to have a pretty persistently fast connection. It would be bad if it became slow when more people would be online. It would also need a high upward limit on overall data transfer.

    Are there any faster more dedicated solutions for someone in a residential neighborhood?

    Thanks for your responses.
     
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    erratick

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  • #6
    Is T-3 the best option for this.
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    No. You can get many other options. The reason this is too expensive is the equipment to terminate a T3. Ask for an ethernet hand off that is the data rate you need.

    T3s for internet in SoCal range between 900-4000$ monthly (depending on committed datarate and provider). Point to point can run less.
     
    Frennzy

    Frennzy

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  • #7
    Originally posted by general:
    I know he can get 15 mbit fiber from the cable company, but it's shared, so I'm pretty sure he's looking at just a fast cable modem. It will need to have a pretty persistently fast connection. It would be bad if it became slow when more people would be online. It would also need a high upward limit on overall data transfer.

    Are there any faster more dedicated solutions for someone in a residential neighborhood?

    Thanks for your responses.
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    You need to be setting expectations here:

    1. IF he can get 15Mbit fiber, that's almost certainly going to be the best option. "Shared" is a red herring, especially considering that, during the day, most folks aren't working from home/streaming/stressing the local headend.

    2. What, exactly is driving this? What does he *do* that requires all this bandwidth? There may be a much better solution than throwing bandwidth (and money) at the problem.
     
    Frennzy

    Frennzy

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  • #10
    Originally posted by general:
    The person is in Denver and will be connecting to a site in California. The work requires large amounts of data be moved.
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    Cable is still your best bet over a T3.

    However, you really didn't answer the question.

    How much data is "large amounts?"

    What type of data is this? Generally, single users don't create a whole lot of new data in any given day.

    Have you considered recommending a terminal server type solution?
     
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    finni

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  • #13
    Originally posted by Frennzy:
    What type of data is this? Generally, single users don't create a whole lot of new data in any given day.
    Have you considered recommending a terminal server type solution?
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    This - what's the data? The only thing I can quickly think of that might possibly justify this could be very large graphics files, if your graphics app won't run well/properly/at all on Citrix/TS. If the guy is working with databases, let him log onto the SQL server and do the work.
     
    zedsdead

    zedsdead

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  • #15
    I'd talk to the cable companies first - see if they have fibre you could access. They are much more aggressive on pricing that the traditional telcos.
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    I second this. The cable company I work for offers fibre ethernet connections for an extremely competitive price to just about anyone that's willing to pay. It is a dedicated loop (not shared) directly to the nearest pop.
     
    MR2DI4

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  • #19
    While I agree that the cost of a T-carrier service are high and you should explore other options, I would caution you about hidden limitations. Cable & DSL ISP's likely have provisions hidden in their TOS agreements that could hamper large frequent transfers. I know mine does, it says that it's service meant for use on a "temporary" basis and I can have my service suspended for multi-threaded traffic, excessive bandwidth use or otherwise adversely affecting the network. There may also be packet-shaping and additional routing that could affect your latency. Part of why T-carrier services are so expensive is that they are designed to handle data, at-speed, all the time and usually come with service contracts & guarantees from the ISP.

    Wherever you go, talk to an actual sales manager, explain your needs and have them lay out exactly what is available. There may be something offered that may suit your needs but not commonplace enough for joe-schmo customer service rep to be aware of.

    MR2Di4 -- :cool: --
     
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    fractal

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  • #21
    Originally posted by general:
    The person is in Denver and will be connecting to a site in California. The work requires large amounts of data be moved.
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    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tape.

    Can his needs be met by fed-ex?

    T.3's used to be 10k/mo, but need special cabling. Have you looked into bonded t.1's?
     
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    The ToOTaLL

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  • #23
    Do you really need a T3 connection, or would something like an ENLAN (aka, metro Ethernet) connection make more sense? If you take a look at someone like TW Telecom, they have a local presence in the Denver area (that's the location of their national NOC) and in parts of CA. Here's a pic of their national map:

    twtc.jpg


    Depending on where the endpoints are, you can hop on their fiber backbone and scale it as high as you want. If you're in their area but off of their local map, you're looking at build costs and equipment that will need to get installed, so that could increase the length of terms.

    From their Memphis to Minneapolis datacenters, a 10MB ENLAN was $1800 a month. Here in town we have a similar connection between our datacenter and a client site, and they only pay $1000 a month.
     
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    gregthomas

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  • #24
    I would second the investigation into whether a terminal server type solution would work. Otherwise, look at what the cost would be to overnight Fed-Ex mag tape or a harddrive vs a 36 month commitment.

    Say overnight FedEx is $50. Your employee needs to send data 25 days out of the month. That's $1,250 vs $2,000 or more for a large connection. Over a 36 month period that's a cost savings of $27,000. Just a hypothetical.
     
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    erratick

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  • #25
    Say overnight FedEx is $50. Your employee needs to send data 25 days out of the month. That's $1,250 vs $2,000 or more for a large connection. Over a 36 month period that's a cost savings of $27,000. Just a hypothetical.
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    wrecks work flow.

    Riverbed or bigger pipes is a better value considering time to sync data, restore data, you are wasting man hours at both ends. This is penny-wise, pound foolish.

    The station wagon full of tapes/hard drives/whatever is great for a first sync, but as a regular process, it is wasteful.
     
    Frennzy

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  • #29
    Originally posted by NekdDrgn:
    Like others have said, I'd recommend Metro Ethernet....

    I've got around a dozen DS3's ranging from 5 miles across town to 150 miles. They ain't cheap. $3000-$15000.

    We're starting to move to metro ethernet as we can get double the speed for a fraction of the cost.
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    Did you notice the requirement for a connection from Denver to California? Did you also notice he's in a residential neighborhood?

    Both of those pretty much rule out Metro.
     
    Frennzy

    Frennzy

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  • #31
    Originally posted by HedPhuqt:
    Metro-E is available in vpls/l2vpn form to get through an IP core.

    The trouble is residential. What neighborhood is your friend in? I know there's a little town/neighborhood East of Parker that has Qwest fiber delivered to every building. Maybe he should move to the suburbs? Prices are awesome right now.
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    Not from every provider, but the point is taken.

    Also, east of Parker? Jesus, why not just move to California? -- ;) --
     
    M

    M. Jones

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  • #32
    Originally posted by NekdDrgn:
    We're starting to move to metro ethernet as we can get double the speed for a fraction of the cost.
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    Anyone who thinks they can sell me cheap metro-E in the NYC area and also in other areas has a standing invitation to PM me here. We can't get nearly the fiber at the prices you can get in the Bay Area, it seems. The provider of our last metro-E point-to-point contract couldn't deliver for some unknown reason, and that connection was very far from cheap, by comparison with a T3. Savings on a gig port versus a T3 CSU/DSU and HSSI are big, though.
     
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    H-BooGie

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  • #33
    Savings on a gig port versus a T3 CSU/DSU and HSSI are big, though.
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    M.Jones, could you kindly clarify what that exactly means ?

    I'm also in NYC and am currently looking to expand bandwidth at my HQ end.

    Our current provider indicating if we were to go to a bonded T-1 solution, both circuits would come out of the same CO. wack.

    So, we're currently looking at adding a separate T from InterNAP and buying a linkproof to sit on the front-end to direct which hosts/protocols/traffic uses which circuit.

    But, it would be great to know if there is a 3MB, minimum, synchronous (dedicated) hand-off to me in NYC for in or around the same price of 2 separate T-1's ?
     
    Frennzy

    Frennzy

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  • #34
    quote:
    Savings on a gig port versus a T3 CSU/DSU and HSSI are big, though.



    M.Jones, could you kindly clarify what that exactly means ?
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    A CSU/DSU is a channel service unit/data service unit. A HSSI is a High Speed Serial Interface. This is how you connect to a T3. They are not cheap.

    edit: I should clarify.

    A CSU/DSU would be used in case you purchase a fractional T3 (in most cases). This basically determines which channels you use. It then hands off to your HSSI.

    You could also use a PA-T3 style port adapter (Cisco) and connect the T3 directly to it (T3s are typically handed off via dual coax.)
     
    H

    H-BooGie

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  • #35
    Thanks for the quick Telecomm lessen Frenzy.

    It doesn't take much to peg a T-1 these days. I only have a single T-1 terminating over 40 IPSEC vpn's and serving just under 75 users surfing www behind it. It's ridiculous how it's so hard to justify that necessary cost to management.

    Is there a dedicated, SLA type of service for in or around $1000 a month that can offer at the very least 3Mbps ?
     
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