Cheap, functional, upgradeable: HP’s Stream and Pavilion Mini desktops reviewed

These inexpensive Windows desktops have a surprising amount to offer.

Read the whole story

 

[MeateaW]

"Windows 8.1 comes with a "Create a recovery drive" feature that will copy that partition to an external USB drive; once you've done that, you should be able to delete the local partition and regain the space."

DON'T DO THIS. (Edit: bolded the part you shouldn't do)

Windows on extremely small drives is installed using a method called WIMBOOT, this method reduces the standard Windows 8+ install from a typical 16-32 gigabytes, to approximately 6 or 7 gb.

The main reason this is the worst advice I have ever read, is the actual Windows files are left in the install.wim found in the recovery partition.

Deleting that partition is like deleting Windows, it will get you back space, but you'll just create a paper weight.

My god, be careful with the advice you give in articles Ars please!!!

 

[Batmanuel]

The crapware can probably be sidestepped if Microsoft offers a signature edition version, I would think.

 

[Invid]

NeoMorpheus[/url]":3d16znmk]

Invid[/url]":3d16znmk]

NeoMorpheus[/url]":3d16znmk]Lovely device.
Need a drive wipe and install Linux and Kodi or just OpenELEC.

Why bother? I've got a quad core z3736 Atom box with just 2GB of ram and Kodi is snappy on it running on top of Windows. Seems like a lot of trouble for no gain on a dedicated box.

Hide the taskbar during the second you see the desktop, boot directly into Kodi, and you'll never even know what's underneath. The Windows overhead is unnoticeable...this isn't a Raspberry Pi.

I'm going to get one of these for my Mom.

Perhaps I don't care for windows, plus the required antivirus.

And since I prefer linux, I'll have as many installs as possible.

Fair enough. Just seems like OpenELEC is a solution in search of a problem on a box like this. I'm primarily a Mac guy, so I'm no Windows apologist here, but the (largely unseen because you boot directly into Kodi) massive device compatibility of Windows is an asset here too.

Not sure why you'd be running antivirus on a dedicated media box.

 

[orangpelupa]

Low memory warning?

Manually set the page file to 4GB

 

[Demani]

Hackintosh is out of the question without a supported GPU (4600 and above).

But I am looking at a pair of the Streams for redundant FreePBX servers for an office. Cheap, easy to upgrade, and adding in the extra 2GB of RAM should resolve any potential performance issues (32GB is plenty for that, though if I had the cables I could also mirror internally to a regular 2.5in SSD).

 

[MyForwuk]

The prices are crazy.... $180 is amazing.

Plus they are selling 23" monitors for it for $109.

I am also impressed that all 4 ports are USB3.

These should sell like hot cakes.

 

[rodalpho]

If you want to run linux as a HTPC with Kodi/Plex, the haswell celeron chromeboxes (of which the Asus is generally considered the best) are a better option as they're quite a bit cheaper. I got mine for $125. You can install windows on the chromeboxes, but the HDMI audio doesn't work, and you will need a USB audio adapter. The asus model also comes with 5Ghz wifi, which is actually critically important if you live in an urban environment and don't have ethernet running to your TV.

The HP stream mini is thus interesting primarily if you want to run windows on your HTPC, or of course if you're not setting up a HTPC at all and want a super-cheap windows desktop. It does have twice the storage, but 16GB is plenty for a base linux or certainly openELEC client install, with all your media on NAS.

For all the people asking, linux and openELEC both work perfectly well on the HP stream mini. But why not save yourself a bit of money and get that Asus Chromebox instead? It is the premiere Kodi and OpenELEC platform today, and is extremely well supported in the Kodi forums. I have one myself and am very satisfied.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

TheFLP[/url]":b1nvttxz]

csand[/url]":b1nvttxz]Just don't mistake it for a tupperware container and try to cram your lunch in it

I'd have to remind myself not to put the white one in the fridge because it looks so much like our CorningWare dishes.

At least it'll keep your software fresh.

 

[Simonb42]

Demani[/url]":1db024wk]Hackintosh is out of the question without a supported GPU (4600 and above).

Fixed. Just like 1st gen Core and HD2500 graphics got fixed after a long wait. http://www.hackintoshosx.com/files/file ... 02-opencl/

 

[CppThis]

JButler[/url]":1ug8c9ti]Most users of cheap Bay Trail CPUs (N2840, Atom Z3735, Z3745, etc., they all have similar CPU benchmarks) are actually pleasantly surprised by responsiveness of the CPU. Web surfing, task switching, video streaming are quite snappy in fact. Where it can get slow is when you have a disk intensive workload (e.g. a big Windows Update) because these systems usually have an eMMC storage. At least that's my experience with Dell Venue 8 Pro. Stream 11 with a real SSD should perform much better, I would think.

I have one on my bench that I was testing for light Windows gaming and server duty, and there seems to be some kind of "throttle up lag" that was causing some very noticeable performance and data issues. It's impressive what it does with a ~5W power envelope and it ran Fedora just fine, but I can't say I'd recommend it as a Windows box. Of course, I don't generally recommend a Windows PC to someone who just needs web/email/video either.

That's all moot though because the Stream Mini offers a real Haswell chip with notably better performance at a price competitive if not slightly less than a Bay Trail mini. The Pentium version is the more general-purpose of the three listed but the Stream would make a fine HTPC or mini server.

 

[WpgGuy]

Did these bench mark tests run long enough to determine if cooling was adequate or whether the CPU would slow itself down due to overheating?

This is something lacking in reviews. Sure a device can do speed X, but can it sustain speed X when the CPU is 80% active for 5 minutes?

 

[mvmiller12]

What I want to know: Is the CPU socketed and upgradable or not?

 

[TechTuner777]

tjones2[/url]":2gr60rs4]Any idea if the Stream Mini (the $180 model) makes a decent HTPC? Or is its CPU and RAM too limited?

For a Linux HTPC, the specs are perfect. For a Windows 8.1 HTPC.....that's the bare minimum and you should checked for a more powerful box IMHO.

 

[Callitrax]

JButler[/url]":27vzlara]

CppThis[/url]":27vzlara]

trenzterra[/url]":27vzlara]Doesn't the stream 11 come with a n2830 and not a 2955u?

The Stream 11 does in fact carry a N2840, which is Bay Trail based and not quite up to the task of fluid Windows use. The Stream Mini packs a much improved 2957U.

Most users of cheap Bay Trail CPUs (N2840, Atom Z3735, Z3745, etc., they all have similar CPU benchmarks) are actually pleasantly surprised by responsiveness of the CPU. Web surfing, task switching, video streaming are quite snappy in fact. Where it can get slow is when you have a disk intensive workload (e.g. a big Windows Update) because these systems usually have an eMMC storage. At least that's my experience with Dell Venue 8 Pro. Stream 11 with a real SSD should perform much better, I would think.

What he said. Typing this on my Dell Venue 11, Z3770 CPU. Any complaints in order would be RAM amount, eMMC, GPU, various programming complaints about third party software and finally CPU. Windows itself works just fine on the SoC.

 

[agt499]

Invid[/url]":k019x4i3]

NeoMorpheus[/url]":k019x4i3]

Invid[/url]":k019x4i3]

NeoMorpheus[/url]":k019x4i3]Lovely device.
Need a drive wipe and install Linux and Kodi or just OpenELEC.

Why bother? I've got a quad core z3736 Atom box with just 2GB of ram and Kodi is snappy on it running on top of Windows. Seems like a lot of trouble for no gain on a dedicated box.

Hide the taskbar during the second you see the desktop, boot directly into Kodi, and you'll never even know what's underneath. The Windows overhead is unnoticeable...this isn't a Raspberry Pi.

I'm going to get one of these for my Mom.

Perhaps I don't care for windows, plus the required antivirus.

And since I prefer linux, I'll have as many installs as possible.

Fair enough. Just seems like OpenELEC is a solution in search of a problem on a box like this. I'm primarily a Mac guy, so I'm no Windows apologist here, but the (largely unseen because you boot directly into Kodi) massive device compatibility of Windows is an asset here too.

Not sure why you'd be running antivirus on a dedicated media box.

Device compatibility is definitely a 2 or 3 way street.
My perfectly good external USB DAC+ADC first had OSX decide one random day that it would only record white noise, then had nobody create a Windows driver for anything later than XP. I kept flawlessly using it under multiple linux flavours.
So then I decide to replace it with a newer ADC so the wife can use it with Windows. I test it once with Windows and it's fine, then keep using it with Linux. Then I go insane, and buy myself a Surface Pro 3 and run Windows on it. The device doesn't go, but still works with Linux (even with Linux in a Virtualbox guest on the SP3). So I run the windows firmware upgrade tool for the device, which bricks it.
I remain unconvinced of the hardware support superiority of Windows or OSX.

 

[zed_crash]

does the stream mini support 1080p h.265 stable video playing?
I've a celeron j1800 mini-itx box, after updating video drivers to 40xx intel added support fro h.265 hardware decode but bay trail gpu is still too weak for 1080p, acceptable in 720p
how does this haswell based celeron fare?

 

[Hat Monster]

tipoo[/url]":1tjnbqm5]The processor in that 179 Stream Mini has a tray price (what manufacturers pay - not what we pay) of 107.00...That's kind of funny in a way. The entire rest of the machine has to fit in 72 bucks, and eke a profit out of there somewhere.

HPs race to the bottom is both turning up some exciting products, and a bit worrying. Like, can they really make any money on the $99 Stream 7?

The tray price is what tiny manufacturers pay - it's a reference point, a place to start negotiations. Tier 1 OEMs pay a fraction of it. Back in the day, Intel was selling some Pentium 4 grade at a tray price of $269 while a leaked document from Dell showed Dell paying $110 for the same product.

 

[Paul B]

Andrew--I appreciate that the Ars readership is somewhat geeky and you've slanted this review with regard to the extent to which you can hack this thing.

Having said that, you've ignored the demographic to whom this product is aimed at; namely, people who might otherwise buy Chromeboxes (after all, this is essentially an HP Chromebox running Windows 8.1). It's mainly geared to using online services (OneDrive presumably), hence the small amount of storage.

So I'd be curious as to how it performs compared to a similarly priced Chrome OS device. As some of us buy these kinds of things for our non-techie parents, it would be useful to know.

 

[moullas]

Glad to see HP doing some innovation in this space, was waiting for this review since the Stream was announced some months ago.

Seeing as a lot of people want something low budget for dedicated HTPC duty... could Ars do a roundup of popular choices of boxes up to ~$200, for this specific use case?

i.e. I have a Raspberry Pi2 and it serves as an excellent Kodi box (running with OSMC at the moment), and with it's quad-core goodness, It'd be interesting to pit it up against the Stream Mini to see the advantages / limitations against an x86 box (which granted is capable of a full Windows installation, but many people are not interested in that).

Is there a cross-platform benchmark to be able to compare the 2 architectures, since with x86 prices coming down and ARM performance coming up we're now at a point which the two will cross roads pretty soon.

 

[ditoax]

The Pavilion Mini, in particular, is burdened by quite a bit of bloatware.

Of course it is. OEMs don't know how to sell Windows without including a load of crap that ruins their products. One of the best things about OS X is that it is such a clean experience out of the box.

 

[zed_crash]

ditoax[/url]":m8jskzpk]The Pavilion Mini, in particular, is burdened by quite a bit of bloatware.

Of course it is. OEMs don't know how to sell Windows without including a load of crap that ruins their products. One of the best things about OS X is that it is such a clean experience out of the box.

OEM get paid to put that bloatware on their machines, its a way to get some profit in a price war.
Apple overcharge you so much that they dont need to add bloatware.

 

[James A. Burt]

I can't believe it's not butter!!

 

[BarkingGhostAR]

I actually bought a couple of the Stream mini's and opened one. I've been testing them with their native hardware and software, then tested them with Kodi over the Windows 8.1 that it comes with. I've tested it with OpenELEC and LM. However, I could not get Windows 7 running on the unit.

While I was able to perform booting from an external drive without the Sandisk 32GB SSD installed (yes, I removed it), I also cloned the OEM SSD onto a Samsung EVO840 in order to play around with. A couple of caveats should be noted here.

First, one must disable Secure Boot in order to enable legacy booting, which is required for USB booting. Next, it seems every morning when I boot from the externalized SSD I get a BIOS-level boot error. I clear this by simply pressing the power button twice (once to turn off, and second to turn on. This results in a second boot attempt that is slow, but I can resolve that by pressing the power button twice again.

Now the system boots normally. I am not sure if I should attribute this to the mini's hardware (logic board, USB, BIOS, etc.) the SATA-to-USB3 cable I am using, or the Samsung EVO840, or a combination therein. Additionally, I am wary of the quality of the physical USB ports themselves. Some are tight and others are too loose (cause connectivity issues).

Finally, I removed the bloatware and installed Firefox and Classic Shell. While I considered $180 disposable, I have to say that beyond basic functionality (which meets a lot of my needs), I cannot seei having more than one unless other folks in the home need/want one. I would not PC game on the Stream mini, but then again if I did that is what my Haswell i7 is for.

 

[BarkingGhostAR]

BTW, I forgot to add something. Andrew Tran (YouTube) has a video of the insides of the Pavilion mini, which uses a 2.5" HDD via a proprietary SATA cable. The port it plugs into on the logic board is present on the Stream mini's logic board. I've found the HP part number, (PartSurfer.hp.com), but it isn't an item that can be ordered. Bummer.

I would much rather find an internalized solution (and not an m.2 M+B SSD solution) to a boot drive. Maybe this will change in the future.

 

[Amasa]

Pretty well anything I want to do at a work level will run on one of these. Which is nice, but ...

... games? Cutting to the quick, how many frames will I get running Skyrim?

 

[jellisii]

But can I play Minecraft on it?

 

[theoilman]

Personally I don't get people still making HTPCs these days when a chromecast or similar can do the same job without clunky keyboard or IR remote setups. I guess people just like what they're used to.

Something like this might still be good for a NAS tho

 

[Carpetsmoker]

Simonb42[/url]":2il36flu]Any comment on fan noise or lack thereof?

Yeah, this is what I also wondered.

We have an Intel NUC at work which we use as a server, and even with very light loads it creates quite a bit of noise. So much so that I moved the machine to a separate room because it was annoying (especially since it start/stops a lot).

Given that both CPU's are 15W TDP, it should be possible to run them fanless most of the time ... (at least, that's what my 15W TDP laptop cpu does)...

 

[ditoax]

zed_crash[/url]":mnoipyvm]OEM get paid to put that bloatware on their machines, its a way to get some profit in a price war.
Apple overcharge you so much that they dont need to add bloatware.

Yeah I understand why OEMs do it. I would rather pay the £5-10 extra for a clean system though. Having to do a clean install of Windows whenever I buy a new machine is a waste of my time.

I don't agree with the Apple overcharges statement anymore. The Macbook Air and Macbook Pro are priced competitively against similar Windows laptops.

 

[Ge0ph]

I bought a Stream 11 and love it as a small throw around laptop. It's really good at the basics.

I then bought a Stream Mini. Also a real good basic machine. However, I have upgraded the SSD to a 120 and the memory to 16Gig and for the past couple of weeks it has been my main machine at home.

I did have Windows 10 on it for a while but there were no drivers for the SD Card slot and IE crashed a lot. Windows Update was also a bit funky on it. So I went back to Windows 8.1 and really like this little machine.

The only thing I don't like about it is the processor is a be weak.

I'm an all out Mac guy and I can tell you, this is what the Mac Mini should be more like. Apple really screwed up with their last version of the Mini.

 

[JustQuestions]

Nice article Andrew,

There are two things I'd like to see done if you review more of these mini desktops, but I know I'm just one voice in the hoard.

1) Linux support. It would be nice to see a demonstration of these things running Linux, if at all possible. If it was a pain to get it running, or can't be done without a lot of headaches, that's going to be something I (and probably other people) will want to know about. If it's smooth and easy, that would be a huge plus.

2) Actual ethernet transfer speeds benchmarked. A lot of people advertise "gigabit" NICs, but there is a pretty large difference between what is advertised and what you actually get. I had to buy a PCIe Intel NIC to get gigabit, because my onboard Realtek "gigabit" just didn't cut it. The same is true for wifi speeds.

 

[mpat]

ginsuchikara[/url]":1n5xvw0q]

tjones2[/url]":1n5xvw0q]Any idea if the Stream Mini (the $180 model) makes a decent HTPC? Or is its CPU and RAM too limited?

Unless by "HTPC" you mean "I'm gunna stream Steam games with this" in which case, this is also not what you're looking for. No discrete graphics = shit performance.

Why would it be shit performance? Gaming performance would be whatever my desktop can handle, all Steam requires is native H.264 decoding. Even the Celerons have that.

 

[Madlyb]

The internals look good, but that exterior is straight up Fisher-Price...

...perhaps a little Plasti-Dip? ;^)

Seriously, I have bought several Lenovo Q190s and they are amazing for the price, but fan noise can be quite bothersome, so like many others I wonder how these products hold up in that space.

 

[Rookie_MIB]

I like it, but the only problem is if you're building a HTPC for local file playback, when you're going up against the newer Raspberry Pi 2, you're running at a pretty serious disadvantage with regards to capability vs price. I just picked up the RPi 2 and it runs Open ELEC pretty flawlessly (MUCH better than the oriiginal Pi, not surprisingly), and for the price I paid for it ($65 for RPi2, case, card, PSU) it really runs circles around the original.

Yes, the HP Pavillion/Stream are more OS oriented, the computer is a bit more flexible overall, is certainly more powerful, but for a very specific use case, the RPi2 can't be beat. I will say that if you want something dual bootable (win7/8, xbmc/openelec), and overall more flexible the Pavillion/Stream would be great. From a straight HTPC perspective, the RPi2 will be the one to go for at half the price of the Stream.