The US already lags far behind China and Europe, but we're going too fast, dealers say.
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Car dealers say they can’t sell EVs, tell Biden to slow their rollout
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An adapter that you only have to use occasionally and is absolutely no big deal at all? Teslas have come with J1772 to Tesla adapters this whole time and you don't see anyone bitching about those.
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I feel for you, but the vast. vast majority of the US doesn't live in your situation. 83% of Americans (about 275.5 million people) live in urban environments. Not sure how many people on top of that live outside of an urban environment, yet still within 100 miles of one, but it's probably most of the rest of that 17%.
At 186 miles from the nearest city, you are an extreme outlier. At 373 miles from the nearest major city, that's like, limited to Montana or Alaska only.
Edit: forgot the ref: https://css.umich.edu/publications/factsheets/built-environment/us-cities-factsheet
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Aren't there adapters? Or at least aren't adaptors possible?
Maybe the problem is that current cars simply don't support the higher DC charging rates that future NACS versions plan to support?
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Just about any EV on the market could get you to the next city over right now, unless you buy a lower range one and it's in the middle of winter. Even then, in MOST regions, the major corridors between cities have fast chargers now (and more are going in at a really fast pace). Unless you're doing that "next city over" drive every single day, an EV sounds just fine for you.
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Very much this. The car sales model is all based on the buyer’s inability to correctly value any aspect of the transaction. Not the base price, not the option package, not the—rubbing hands together gleefully—dealer added options or “destination” fees. Plus financing terms. Service contracts. Digital subscription promos.
It’s like a giant unstable Jenga tower. In the modern digital economy the dealers don’t have a monopoly on any of that anymore.
Not clear how it lands, but if EVs destroy the current dealership model, few tears will be shed.
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Man, I won the Minions coffee mug like three pages back. Y'all can fight over the lame prizes if you want, I'm goin' home
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Well, we COULD afford the model that was promised...you know, the $39,974 version? Remember? But Ford can't be bothered to make the vehicles that people want to buy at the prices they promised. No, they used the old "bait and switch" BS, promising an affordable EV truck, then delivering an $80,000 model that then got the prices jacked up by dealers!
And you wonder why they are failing...
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We are what, three blocks away from this being completely filled out at this point?
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I call bullshit on him being 186 miles from the nearest city, even in Montana. Alaska, maybe if he's posting from a remote cabin in the Brooks Range. And even if he lives in a city that's 186 miles from the nearest other major city, I guarantee he's not making that drive more than a couple times a year, and never when it's 30 below. It's a bullshit argument.
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Weird. One of my friends was EV shopping and and this is the response he got from all the traditional car companies:
Long waiting list, and/or big extra markup over MSRP...
He bought a Tesla and didn't have to deal with either of those issues.
Long waiting list, and/or big extra markup over MSRP...
He bought a Tesla and didn't have to deal with either of those issues.
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ColdWetDog
Ars Legatus Legionis
Drove one last week. Tried to rent a Tesla (for reasons), Avis dumped the Solterra on me. Nice acceleration, handles more sluggishly than my lifted 4Runner - which takes some doing. I've been in tanks that were easier to get in to. Really, you had to fold yourself into the seat which is pretty amazing since I'm not exactly tall.
The real kicker was I could never get it to charge past about 50kw/hr. I stopped at several charging stations (complete with separate apps, thanks) and it would take hours to go from about 50% to 80%. And Avis didn't even give it to me fully charged.
Brought it back for a POS ICE car.
So, they exist, but they probably shouldn't.
FWIW, the Solterra is apparently based off the Toyota bZ4xys*(*&U#JH. Didn't fall far from the tree.
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$40k wasn't going to happen with inflation. The base price of an F-150 Lightning Pro is sitting at $50k now. Yes, a lot of loaded-up versions are sitting on lots, but it's not like Ford actually doubled the base price, and suggesting they did is way off base. It's a fair point to make without resorting to apples to oranges comparisons.
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This is absolute nonsense. You can reinforce frames and suspensions on cars, and there are plenty of 200k mile+ EVs out there.
Also, there are plenty of heavy-as-hell cars out there that weigh similar to a Model 3. For example, a Challenger is about the same weight, and I don't see people online talking about how it's going to wear out its suspension faster than a Camry.
This is just fabricated FUD, plain and simple.
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lol, nah. It's just a lot of bullshit arguments that get pushed for bad-faith reasons by disingenuous posters. It is possible to make a select few of those points without being actively disingenuous*, but most of them are just disinformation, and people who bundle more than one of them into a post are nearly always particularly full of shit and arguing in bad faith.
*but even so, the few valid points on that grid are all basically self-evident and being worked on, so they're kind of stating the obvious and assuming readily apparent pain points aren't going to be addressed as the market matures and we move along the adoption curve, which is kind of dumb.
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fellow human
Ars Praefectus
Being faced with all that was largely why I chose a Model 3 over the Ioniq 5. If I could have bought it online I would have the latter sitting in my driveway right now.
Dealers put the noose around their own necks and Tesla is kicking out the chair.
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My friend went to an EV ride and drive (w/ dealers involved) in October and the first two things out of the salesperson's mouth is:
1. Our MachE Mustang is really new technology and there are some bugs.
2. "I'm not sure the grid can handle a lot electric vehicles."
Back in 2013, I went to test drive the Chevy Volt and was questioned why I would want this vehicle (at that time it was the 2012 Car and Driver Car of the Year). And why are we giving rebates to car buyers.
Dealers suck.
1. Our MachE Mustang is really new technology and there are some bugs.
2. "I'm not sure the grid can handle a lot electric vehicles."
Back in 2013, I went to test drive the Chevy Volt and was questioned why I would want this vehicle (at that time it was the 2012 Car and Driver Car of the Year). And why are we giving rebates to car buyers.
Dealers suck.
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My wife and I did research on various EVs and narrowed it down to the VW ID.4 and the Ford Mach-E. We went to the VW dealership first because we've worked with them for over 20 years. Made an appointment and got the guy who's an EV specialist. Told him what we wanted; went to the lot and found one in the trim and color we liked. Drove it off the lot that evening.
I noticed that the dealership we went with is not on the list.
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Im wondering if anyone with knowledge can answer a question I have; What is considered 'unsold'?
In my area, I noticed there is a HUGE flood of 2021 and 22 Kona EVs available. These are used, off-lease. Most of them are flagged ad 90+ days on the lot.*
This, admittedly does clog up the lot like they say, but seems unrelated to the rules they are complaining about.
When dealers complain they can't sell EVs, does that include the lease vehicles they've already collected thousands on, and are slow to sell because they are used, and asking near-new price?
I would be SHOCKED to hear dealers are complaining about a situation they created
*I'm quite interested in the Kona, sounds good, but still expensive for used.
In my area, I noticed there is a HUGE flood of 2021 and 22 Kona EVs available. These are used, off-lease. Most of them are flagged ad 90+ days on the lot.*
This, admittedly does clog up the lot like they say, but seems unrelated to the rules they are complaining about.
When dealers complain they can't sell EVs, does that include the lease vehicles they've already collected thousands on, and are slow to sell because they are used, and asking near-new price?
I would be SHOCKED to hear dealers are complaining about a situation they created
*I'm quite interested in the Kona, sounds good, but still expensive for used.
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fellow human
Ars Praefectus
I hate to point out the obvious but maybe this is why it's hard for dealers to sell EVs
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That's an interesting, if unusual, approach. I don't get why it was downvoted so heavily. They hate vegans?
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That's year-old data, and even Tesla has had to lower prices this year. I'd be curious to see 2023 YTD.
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I mean. The take-away for me is Tesla still has the luxury market sewn up, and would you fucking look at that the cheapest EV is right there at the top of the list in sales!
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I am an Electrician and I have several questions, because what you state does not make sense without clarity.
What size electrical service do you have on your house?
Where do you live so that the local electrical utility company is not in control of the transformers (which in standard residential neighborhoods are traditionally owned and maintained by the utility company)?
The most common, small transformer (on a pole for overhead fed services) can handle up to four 100A or two 200A service households. The standard ground transformers for underground services are more robust and can handle four 200A service households with no issues.
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Sort of. Tesla dominates the "expensive EV for people who can afford anything they want" market. That market is saturated. IIRC only the Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are even trying to target a different demographic.
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[/QUOTE]
Is anybody here under the delusion we're going to convince everybody, much less people that don't even read ArsTechnica?
What we can do is address false arguments. For example the fact that nobody wants them. People like you will point to polls that show 60% (or whatever) aren't considering an EV for their next vehicle, but that means 40% are. EVs currently account for around 9% of new car purchases, so there's still a tremendous amount of upside. And those polls continue to climb every year. In part because EVs continue to get better, but largely because many of the people opposed are just ignorant about EVs. There's massive amounts of intentional disinformation and propaganda out there.
But the thing is, you can't keep people ignorant forever. People will be exposed to EVs, and the truth, and that tends to change minds. A massive 90% of EV owners plan to buy another for their next vehicle.
Regardless, you're not fooling anybody. Every accusation is a an admission with people like you. The only person desperate to spread propaganda here is people like you.
Is anybody here under the delusion we're going to convince everybody, much less people that don't even read ArsTechnica?
What we can do is address false arguments. For example the fact that nobody wants them. People like you will point to polls that show 60% (or whatever) aren't considering an EV for their next vehicle, but that means 40% are. EVs currently account for around 9% of new car purchases, so there's still a tremendous amount of upside. And those polls continue to climb every year. In part because EVs continue to get better, but largely because many of the people opposed are just ignorant about EVs. There's massive amounts of intentional disinformation and propaganda out there.
But the thing is, you can't keep people ignorant forever. People will be exposed to EVs, and the truth, and that tends to change minds. A massive 90% of EV owners plan to buy another for their next vehicle.
Regardless, you're not fooling anybody. Every accusation is a an admission with people like you. The only person desperate to spread propaganda here is people like you.
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A couple of months ago my sister tried to look at a Chevy Bolt at DeNoyer Chevrolet in Michigan. They didn’t have one, we’re not interested in talking to her and refused to take her contact info and let her know when they might have one. I see they signed the letter. Pretty good evidence that the problem is not EV’s, but the dealers themselves.
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Sorry, the gay conspiracy was getting boring, and the war on xmas doesn't start for another couple days, so Im hocking the grand EV conspiracy in the meantime
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I think my favorite part of stats like that is the entire apparatus for drilling, refining, and distributing petroleum products collapses with a 30% decrease in demand. So if 40% of people do want an EV, then it is inevitable EVs will be the only thing available in my lifetime.
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Since when do HOA's issue permits? That's the city or county, not the friggin HOA.
Signed,
A former HOA victim.
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Yes, there are adapters, but that's something I'd want to use on rare occasions, and not something that I'll need to use more often and keep track of as the car ages. In 10 years, I'll need to keep using the adapter and possibly even have a hard time trying to replace it when in breaks.
A good analogy is like buying something with Micro-USB (or Lightning only Apple Keyboard) today. Sure, I can use a custom Micro-USB / Lightning cable for that one device while everything else is on USB-C, but why make my life more complicated? In 5 years, I'll still have to keep track of that one unique cable.
Alternatively, buy a Tesla today or wait a year before buying anything else.
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I know I shouldn't engage, but I can't help myself: Tesla makes vehicles that are sold in the luxury car price brackets, but they do not make luxury vehicles.
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fellow human
Ars Praefectus
Yeah imagine how many Teslas would sell if they were cheaper
My take is plenty of people want EVs, they just don't want the ones dealers are selling.
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