Capitol Assault Aftermath and US Domestic Terrorism

Status
Not open for further replies.

Auguste_Fivaz

Ars Praefectus
5,728
Subscriptor++
An analysis by POLITICO on some current testimony to a House subcommittee on failures during the breach of the Capitol, January 6th. Seems like we already knew this worked out, but our leaders needed to find out.

1713492963785.png

Michael Brooks, the senior enlisted leader of the D.C. guard at the time of the riot, and Brigadier Gen. Aaron Dean, the adjutant general of the D.C. guard at the time, told House Administration Committee staffers that if Trump had reached out that day — which, by all accounts, he did not — he might have helped cut through the chaos amid a tangle of conflicting advice and miscommunication.

“I think if the Secretary of the Army, the Secretary of Defense, or the president had said ‘Go,’ … or a combination thereof had said ‘Go,’ then we would’ve gone and we would’ve been there much faster,” Dean told congressional investigators on March 26.

Brooks and Dean are among four witnesses slated to testify Wednesday before a House subcommittee probing security failures that exacerbated the breach of the Capitol. All four were top advisers to William Walker, the commander of the D.C. guard on Jan. 6. Other witnesses include Timothy Nick, who was the aide-de-camp to Walker, and Earl Matthews, a top lawyer for the National Guard at the time. POLITICO reviewed transcripts of closed-door interviews that all four men gave to the Administration Committee over the past five weeks.

The bulk of their testimony focused on deep disagreement between the D.C. guard leadership and the Pentagon about when and whether an order was given to deploy to the Capitol. The witnesses told the Administration Committee that military leaders seemed reluctant to send guard troops to the Capitol until hours after violence had broken out.
Further, they described mixed messages on phone calls with the Pentagon that left them in a holding pattern, lacking clarity about whether they had permission to deploy. All four also indicated they had testified to the Jan. 6 committee in an “informal” capacity, meaning there were no transcripts of their interviews.
 

Shavano

Ars Legatus Legionis
68,383
Subscriptor
An analysis by POLITICO on some current testimony to a House subcommittee on failures during the breach of the Capitol, January 6th. Seems like we already knew this worked out, but our leaders needed to find out.

View attachment 78833
If you wait for permission to do what obviously needs to be done to stop an insurrection, you are part of the problem.
 

karolus

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,706
Subscriptor++
It’s a bit more complicated than that with the military. There are orders and a chain of command. As testimony is bearing out, there were deliberate efforts to stymie preparedness and execution by the MPD, USCP, DCNG and other agencies by high level operatives in the Trump Administration, and may have been approved by the man himself. If those giving those directives can be proven to have done so, they may be on the hook for conspiracy.
 

Shavano

Ars Legatus Legionis
68,383
Subscriptor
It’s a bit more complicated than that with the military. There are orders and a chain of command. As testimony is bearing out, there were deliberate efforts to stymie preparedness and execution by the MPD, USCP, DCNG and other agencies by high level operatives in the Trump Administration, and may have been approved by the man himself. If those giving those directives can be proven to have done so, they may be on the hook for conspiracy.
is it though? Is the military going to punish somebody for acting on their own inititiative to save Congress?
 
is it though? Is the military going to punish somebody for acting on their own inititiative to save Congress?
Short answer they should but also if the national guard leadership thought there was a real threat they should have acted knowing and expecting punishment up to and including being shot for doing so.

The pickle is yes you have an obligation to respond but also then an obligation to turn yourself into jag and prepare for whatever punishment you get because of those actions even if they were 100% correct.
 

linnen

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,817
Subscriptor
Short answer they should but also if the national guard leadership thought there was a real threat they should have acted knowing and expecting punishment up to and including being shot for doing so.

The pickle is yes you have an obligation to respond but also then an obligation to turn yourself into jag and prepare for whatever punishment you get because of those actions even if they were 100% correct.
The Posse Commitatus Act (1878, 1956, 2021(response to the National Guard being called in during the George Lloyd protests)) restricts the military from having any law enforcement capacity within US territory (At least the states.) There is an exception that Eisenhower to send troop into Little Rock during the desegregation crisis of 1957, but that entails the President calling the troop up to enforce law when the states are unable or unwilling to enforce federal laws.
 

uno2tres

Ars Scholae Palatinae
1,113
Subscriptor
The Posse Commitatus Act (1878, 1956, 2021(response to the National Guard being called in during the George Lloyd protests)) restricts the military from having any law enforcement capacity within US territory (At least the states.) There is an exception that Eisenhower to send troop into Little Rock during the desegregation crisis of 1957, but that entails the President calling the troop up to enforce law when the states are unable or unwilling to enforce federal laws.
Technically, it’s Congress who have the constitutional power (Article 1 Section 8) to call up the militia to put down an insurrection and enforce federal law.
 
Technically, it’s Congress who have the constitutional power (Article 1 Section 8) to call up the militia to put down an insurrection and enforce federal law.
That’s a tricky bit when the insurrection underway at the chambers of Congress and doubly so when half of the members of said chambers are themselves insurrectionists.
 

Shavano

Ars Legatus Legionis
68,383
Subscriptor
Is it the same militia the 2nd amendment refers to?
The question is more whether Congresss is the same body the constitution refers so, as they seem to have no interest in exercising their powers with respect to defending the country. They fobbed the whole thing off on the President via the War Powers Act.
 

parejkoj

Ars Praetorian
429
Subscriptor++
Further on the above: just what have we created?

https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2024/10/what-happened-inside-patriot-pod/680257/
People who showed up at the January 6 insurrection just to see what was going on (and then, for example, broke into the capitol and smoked a joint) have been radicalized in prison into full on warriors for Trump. I understand why they were put in a separate part of the prison, but I desperately hope that won't come back to hurt us all in the coming months.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Bardon

Shavano

Ars Legatus Legionis
68,383
Subscriptor
Further on the above: just what have we created?

https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2024/10/what-happened-inside-patriot-pod/680257/
People who showed up at the January 6 insurrection just to see what was going on (and then, for example, broke into the capitol and smoked a joint) have been radicalized in prison into full on warriors for Trump. I understand why they were put in a separate part of the prison, but I desperately hope that won't come back to hurt us all in the coming months.
Wow, talk about unreliable narrators.
 

parejkoj

Ars Praetorian
429
Subscriptor++
For many of them, I believe what they say about what they thought before they ended up in prison. They didn't really know that they were breaking the law (they should have, but these aren't particularly self aware folks), having bought into the "it's our building" messaging and just kind of following along with the crowd. One of them talks about how he was terrified when things got violent and left, but then followed people back in later. I believe him when he says he wishes he'd done more then because he thinks he has a better understanding of just how important it is to make sure Trump is president.

He's an unreliable narrator regarding the damage that was done and why it was done, but I believe him when he talks about what he thinks now versus what he thought then. And that's what I find terrifying about it.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
For many of them, I believe what they say about what they thought before they ended up in prison. They didn't really know that they were breaking the law (they should have, but these aren't particularly self aware folks), having bought into the "it's our building" messaging and just kind of following along with the crowd. One of them talks about how he was terrified when things got violent and left, but then followed people back in later. I believe him when he says he wishes he'd done more then because he thinks he has a better understanding of just how important it is to make sure Trump is president.

He's an unreliable narrator regarding the damage that was done and why it was done, but I believe him when he talks about what he thinks now versus what he thought then. And that's what I find terrifying about it.
Yep. The reality is that learning they were suffering together in jail is really really bad news. Largely because that's how brainwashing works, it's essentially how they turn young men into soldiers in boot camp. So, now we have a bunch of people who, before they went to jail were mostly dumb and now, because they were jailed together, are now dyed in the wool Trump soldiers. This isn't going to end well.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
As a sidenote: this is also why retributive justice, the current model we have for jail and justice is just a bad idea. You send dumb people who don't really want to be criminal to jail and get hardened criminals who believe that their actions are well justified out.
 

Nekojin

Ars Legatus Legionis
31,745
Subscriptor++
Further on the above: just what have we created?

https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2024/10/what-happened-inside-patriot-pod/680257/
People who showed up at the January 6 insurrection just to see what was going on (and then, for example, broke into the capitol and smoked a joint) have been radicalized in prison into full on warriors for Trump. I understand why they were put in a separate part of the prison, but I desperately hope that won't come back to hurt us all in the coming months.
On the plus side, there are some J6'ers who have had their eyes opened about how things actually happened... by their defense attorneys.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt1Dwtm4fWM
 

linnen

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,817
Subscriptor
Yep. The reality is that learning they were suffering together in jail is really really bad news. Largely because that's how brainwashing works, it's essentially how they turn young men into soldiers in boot camp. So, now we have a bunch of people who, before they went to jail were mostly dumb and now, because they were jailed together, are now dyed in the wool Trump soldiers. This isn't going to end well.
Suffering as in lowest on the pecking order with even the white supremacist gangs (much less the other kind of gangs) beating them up with the guards looking the other way, or suffering as in not getting their special mattresses and private non-isolation rooms?
 

karolus

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,706
Subscriptor++
Suffering as in lowest on the pecking order with even the white supremacist gangs (much less the other kind of gangs) beating them up with the guards looking the other way, or suffering as in not getting their special mattresses and private non-isolation rooms?
Gang initiation is likened to cult indoctrination, and has been well-studied by sociologists. It is a complex social system which outputs very loyal members to do the leaders’ bidding. Breaking out of the cycle is very difficult—especially since many who get wrapped up in them have little external support resources to begin with.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
Suffering as in lowest on the pecking order with even the white supremacist gangs (much less the other kind of gangs) beating them up with the guards looking the other way, or suffering as in not getting their special mattresses and private non-isolation rooms?
It doesn't matter too much, after all, for the cultist / military leader, the point is to destabilize someone so that they are open to becoming what you want. This can be done through nearly any disruption that causes a group of initiates to suffer something together. Hell, this is why frats on college campuses haze pledges. It creates exceptional group loyalty even when the suffering is inflicted by higher ups.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.