Canadian regulators have asked whether network neutrality rules are needed, and at least some ISPs and most content owners have just said "no"—Canadian ISPs should have the right to throttle P2P uploads, block certain websites, and implement "graduated response" rules.<BR><BR><a href='http://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/canadian-isps-stand-up-for-content-blocking-throttling.ars'>Read the whole story</a>
Canadian ISPs stand up for content blocking, throttling
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<I>controlling access to content "peut être bénéfique non seulement pour les utilisateurs de services Internet mais pour la société en général"—that is, "could be beneficial not only to users of Internet services but to society in general."</I><BR><BR>"Not so much for myself, but I am so respected, it would damage the TOWN..."
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Videotron -- the scum of the world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>ALL large companies with more than about 400 employees are the scum of the world. It's up to regulators to keep a close eye on companies, and it's up citizens to keep a close eye on regulators. <BR><BR>To me, based on everything I've heard, it doesn't seem like the CRTC and Industry Canada are very good at guarding consumers' rights. Is that part of their charter? If not, it should be.
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Rogers, allow me to purchase shows or channels a la carté and I wont need to torrent them. I watch five or six shows with any regularity, plus Leafs games.<BR><BR>If I wanted to pay for the bundles that give me those shows, I'd be paying over $100 month for television cable alone.
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"P2P is designed to cause congestion"<BR><BR>Sure, Rogers. Sure. Maybe try "network utilization causes network congestion". Holy shit! All those cars on the road are causing traffic jams! Ban them! Granted, P2P will use whatever bandwidth is available, but then so will Akamai if I'm streaming trailers from Apple at > 1 MB/sec, or Youtube, or Steam, or anything else.<BR><BR>Unless they're only talking about uploading, but it's so laughably limited (I get up to 18 megabits down, and 0.45 up on my basic connection) I have a hard time believing it's the culprit.
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@Bob<BR><BR>Yea, your right, but you miss the actual point. The cars on the road aren't just causing them...thats their only purpose. Nobody uses cars for transportation. The original design: car: an object to cause congestion on roads. Same as P2P, it doesn't actually transfer any data, that's not its purpose, or if it does, that is incidental. Its purpose is to slow down networks. Thats what they're claiming, and it doesn't even come close to reality.
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The CRTC lacks the teeth to implement policy that protects consumers. I mean, hell, our country only ever had two GSM providers to begin with; and yet, almost unfathomably, they let the big one (Rogers) buy the small one. They said it wasn't a monopoly because there are still two nation-wide CDMA providers. Ridiculous.<BR><BR>They make the same argument about broadband providers, too. Since there's one cable provider and one DSL provider in every major market in Canada, that's competition! Sure, our speeds are pathetic and our prices are jaw-dropping, but Canadians should be used to paying more for less. And it's un-Canadian to complain, dontcha know?<BR><BR>It all adds up to massive profits for the companies, and awful services for Canadians, most of whom don't even realize they should expect more. It's sad when I have to move to a specific highrise in downtown Toronto to get Internet service that's remotely worth the money paid.
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You can be sure that the ISPs in the US are watching this closely, looking for any arguments they can use to screw their customers over without getting into too much legal trouble.
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Criss de pays de morons... On est une belle bande de caves... Anyway, I wish that many people and organisations will defend the consumers at the hearings this summer...
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This is utter bullshit. Videotron is the shittiest company EVER, thats why i switched my telephone and internet for a VoiP provider. I'm even thinking about going to Gatineau if things get serious. These companies are NOT here to provide a good customer service, they're here to snatch as much as they can from your pockets. <BR><BR>Hey Rogers, maybe they'll be less congestion if you get those fat managment representetives some whippin and spend more money on actually modernizing your infrastructure.
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"Criss de pays de morons... On est une belle bande de caves..."<BR><BR>Mets-en...<BR><BR>I live in Gatineau, and you can bet your sweet ass I'm going to be a these hearings next summer. Our government seems to lack the balls to control corporations, unfortunately... seems we are turning into the US more and more.
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Where's the Competition Bureau in all this? Geist can't hold it all together by himself. Get the bastards under the Cartels or Abuse of Market Power provisions of the Competition Act.
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Where's the Competition Bureau in all this? Geist can't hold it all together by himself. Get the bastards under the Cartels or Abuse of Market Power provisions of the Competition Act.
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Videotron is my ISP and they can be sure that I'll be getting the fuck away from them if they event hint at acting on those statements.
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So, they've heard from one side of the debate. Will they wait to hear from the other side, or will they just take the ISP's and content owner's obviously impartial views at face value and start making rules?
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It obvious that the CRTC is in the pockets of Bell and Rogers, and has been for years. <BR><BR>There is no such thing as competition in Canada. It's all about screwing customers and making them pay a substantial price for being bent over and buggered. <BR><BR>Surprise, surprise.
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Seems to me Canadian ISPs are looking for an excuse to continue serving the public with two tin cans and a piece of damp string while they pocket exorbitant fees. Meanwhile, in the US the Internet is sensibly being considered infrastructure and being funded by the government. (Thank-you Mr. Obama.) Have you seen the Verison adverts offering fiber optic links to your home in some areas of the US?<BR><BR>Canada is going to be seriously left out of the 21st century as a technological backwater if ISPs are not forced to improve service. If they can't handle a little P2P traffic and are unwilling to permit server based downloads of A/V traffic, a script-kiddie with a DDoS attack will knock them over. (Note to S-Ks: Don't do this, you'll get in trouble.)
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In Quebec, Canada, <B>the consumer telecommunication market is controlled by an oligopoly</B>. You want internet through cable? You must go with Videotron. You want internet through ADSL? You must go with Bell.<BR><BR>I stopped counting the times I switched from Videotron to Bell and from Bell to Videotron. If there were an alternative that offered great service, for a price that made sense, and <B>who would pledge to respect AND protect our privacy</B>, I would jump ship this very instant.<BR><BR>In Canada, we silently get screwed. No violence, no revolution... just a quiet rape.
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In Quebec, Canada, <B>the consumer telecommunication market is controlled by an oligopoly</B>. You want internet through cable? You must go with Videotron. You want internet through ADSL? You must go with Bell.<BR><BR>I stopped counting the times I switched from Videotron to Bell and from Bell to Videotron. If there were an alternative that offered great service, for a price that made sense, and <B>who would pledge to respect AND protect our privacy</B>, I would jump ship this very instant.<BR><BR>In Canada, we silently get screwed. No violence, no revolution... just a quiet rape.
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OK, maybe if you throttle the top 2-5% of your highest users with benefit of >10% savings to everyone else, that would be wise move. Everything else is a bunch of baloney. Stopping copyright infringement will benefit society? Please!! Who will then decide what is copyright infringement? TPB being sued for "copyright infringement" - I don't think that is benefit to society. They aren't even focusing on legal issues. Idiots.
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OK, maybe if you throttle the top 2-5% of your highest users with benefit of >10% savings to everyone else, that would be wise move. Everything else is a bunch of baloney. Stopping copyright infringement will benefit society? Please!! Who will then decide what is copyright infringement? TPB being sued for "copyright infringement" - I don't think that is benefit to society. They aren't even focusing on legal issues. Idiots.
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I'm with TekSavvy in Ontario, and they are fighting Bell Sympatico tooth and nail in order to prevent metered billing here. TekSavvy leases lines from Bell, however Tek has unlimited (yes, UNLIMITED) bandwidth for 40 a month. Bell doesnt like this since they have a 60 gig cap for all its own customers. And some of those customers are leaving for TekSavvy. I was one of them. <BR> All this talk from ISPs (namely Bell) demeaning Net Neutrality makes me wonder if we will indeed, as some have predicted, have nmot only metered billing at every ISP in Canada, but you might only be able to buy "theme packs", or tiers of internet website packages. For 20 bucks a month you get: Yahoo, CNN, FOX, NBC and for 40, you get twice as many, but without Yahoo. For 60, you get all of the above.<BR><BR>I think in the end, most people will simply go back to dial-up. I sure as hell will.
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Videotron's position is actually much worse than it looks here. Videotron is part of a conglomerate called Québécor which also owns and controls TVA, a television network, several papers such as the Journal de Montréal and the Journal de Québec, many magazines, a printing giant (which is not doing so well however). Journalists from the above papers are currently on strike and one of the main contentious issues is the convergence of all medias, where one article (paid only once) could be used across several platforms (print, net, TV, radio).<BR><BR>In addition, they have just recently acquired some cellular spectrum and intend to go head to head with Bell and Rogers not just on cable and sat TV but in telephony - not content to offer VOIP services alone.<BR><BR>Let me also remind you that Videotron was one the ISPs targeted by the AAs to get the user's ID without warrants in an attempt to sue Cdn P2P KaZaa "infringers"; among the 5 served, they were the first ones to be ready and willing to disclose the info.<BR><BR>I guess that when you own and create content as well as distribute it, there can only be one side to any coin...
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Videotron's terms of service make Bell Canada look good...<BR><BR>I am wondering if you can get "leased line" access in Quebec now, where Videotron and Bell have to lease their lines to independent IPSs. I would encourage everyone to find out, and give Videotron the boot. Not before your contract ends though, as they will charge you a 50% cancellation fee! Oh and they renew you automatically, year to year. They send you a letter about 6 working days before your renewal date, and you have to call them to ensure cancellation.
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Apparently there quite a few options, even in Quebec. Time to show Videotron they are not the only game in town.<BR><BR>http://www.canadianisp.ca/
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Rogers is a scammer ISP. They rip us off, give us a mere 95gb/month cap on bandwidth for Extreme users and even go so far as to delay the internet usage monitor by about three days JUST SO you find it difficult to not go over the limit so they can charge you (up to) $25 per month extra. And that's even a lie because they charged me $38 instead.<br><br>Glad Ted Rogers is dead. Who's next? -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --
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I'll quote what the guys from Google once said that I never once forgot, when speaking of Bell and Rogers: "They shouldn't base their business model around scarcity," which is what they're doing with endless throttling and terrible bandwidth caps. Instead of improving their infrastructure they will keep us behind. Cuz they're cheap, what with their removing services and jacking up the prices.
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Videotron is in a very stange position in all this.<BR><BR>They make big money on their higher internet access tiers, which are marginally (or significantly in the case of their 'TGV' accesses) faster than their 'regular' High Speed internet, but offer much higher bandwidth caps.<BR><BR>They even make their commercials showing how fast their accesses are and using such data units as the 'song' or the 'video' (must be like the 'football field' unit of length, although football fields are (much) more uniform).<BR><BR>Presumably, most of their users paying up to $100 a month for the higher tier plans do not grab 100GB of Linux ISOs every month.<BR><BR>Thus Videotron makes a significant amount of money from piracy, weither they approve of it or not. They also do not throttle as far as I could see, since I regularly achieve 8-900KB/s on torrents whatever the hour.<BR><BR>On the other hand,<BR><BR>Videotron is wholly owned by Quebecor, which is a HUGE (newspaper/magazine/book publishing and printing/TV Stations and productions/Music Label/Music Stores/Book Stores/Video rental/) corporation. With an understandably vested interest in protecting copyrights.<BR><BR>It seems the interests of the mothership are better represented at the CRTC hearings than Videotron's own interests (again, piracy is a GOLD MINE for videotron itself).
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mangler: every other ISP is piggybacking on either Bell or Videotron. There is no real competition. For example, Xittel in Trois-Riviere is piggybacking on Videotron. Xittel offers VoIP. Xittel VoIP service sucks ass... of course, Videotron has NOTHING to do with this... they sure don't massage packets that passes over THEIR network.
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Pascal,<BR><BR>I think they are not legally allowed to do anything to the leased bandwidth....would be nice to prove that they are, that would be a nice lawsuit.<BR><BR>Maybe the options in Trois-Rivieres are not that stellar either. I was looking at Montreal, they seem to offer at least a few competitive outfits, in either Cable or DSL.<BR><BR>Does Primus offer anything in Quebec? I was with them for a while in Ontario, and they provided decent speed and support.
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The CRTC's mandate is not to look out for consumer interests, au contraire, its track record suggests otherwise. If it were, it would outright reject these outlandish claims by big 3 ISPs who just happen to have partnerships with and pimp Hollywood's products. Bell Canada, Rogers and Videotron are all major cable/satellite TV operators with a stake in having P2P killed.
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Net Neutrality is an incredibly serious issue, not to be taken lightly. <BR><BR>Do we really want to become a society where the government tells us which websites we can and can't go to?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Moderator Edit: Linkspam Removed
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As much as I am for Net Neutrality, I am interested to see what results this action will produce. I think the Internet has always shown resilience in policing itself, but eventually someone has got to try interfering... at least it's CA and not the US.<BR><BR>Moderator Edit: Linkspam Removed.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThornyBleeder:<BR>Net Neutrality is an incredibly serious issue, not to be taken lightly. <BR><BR>Do we really want to become a society where the government tells us which websites we can and can't go to?<BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>And which network neutrality legislation proposals have you seen that would tell you which websites you can and cannot go to? Feel free to quote or, better yet, post a link.<BR><BR>fwiw, your advertising links violate the posting guidelines for these fora.
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What a marvelous landscape that could be. "Valued Customer: Random Website <BR>that says or does something the government or powerful business interests disagree with has been blocked <I>for your benefit</I> because uh... they have child pornography."
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