Cadillac says goodbye to the performance V8 with 200 mph CT5-V Blackwing

This is Cadillac's last-ever gasoline performance car, but is it <em>too</em> fast?

Read the whole story

 

[truth serum]

so they're likely to make back more than their production cost.

I'm thinking they are probably more like loss leaders built to promote the brand.

 

[jazzylarry]

I think I've seen fredrum before. See IntergalacticWalrus in the Audi thread a few days ago. Yes, the Audi is a pig in many respects, and deserves to be a sales failure. This Caddy (and the CT4 the other day) are not going to sell in huge numbers, but are also hardly mass production items, so they're likely to make back more than their production cost. Which is all GM cares about, really. One can note that they likely among the last of the dinosaurs, and interesting as such, and move on. There are other hills to die on and articles to die for.

The Bugatti Veyron and its immediate competitors are completely impractical cars for 99.999% of us, yet they are amazing feats of engineering and manufacturing, worthy of interest and study by far more than the handful of people that would actually have a valid claim for one.

The improvements in engineering, manufacturing, tires and other systems in many cases can directly improve things we're all interested in, including bringing in new technologies that may replace them, like EVs.

 

[dal20402]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

 

[icwhatudidthere]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

I have a car show that happens by me too. And every month the cops are out there waiting for the sideshows or idiots doing burnouts. Plenty of them get pulled over and get tickets. Seems like that's a first step before jumping straight to industry-wide regulation.

 

[MMarsh]

You’re assuming a single-driver household, but 2 and even 3 car families aren’t rare. And the cars don’t all get driven the same distance or anything close to it, so the “daily driver” observation isn’t nonsensical.

But I do think the time for ICE cars of this sort has clearly passed. The latest climate report shows that the situation is pretty dire and cars like this really shouldn’t be acceptable any more. The good news is that at the same price, you can get a very nice, very fast EV. (Though no doubt the long-distance travelling trombone repairmen who weekend their cars at the track will have something to say about it.)

Talking of trombone repairmen, people wave that climate report to justify doing just slightly less damage to the environment in the grand scheme of things. Nobody reads that report as needing to reduce the usage of cars in general, and rely more on public transport systems.

There's always someone to justify all the reasons why they *need* a personal car (or 3) but never addresses those issues, especially in the context of the aforementioned report. Sprawling suburbs? Need to build miles and miles of new asphalt road for that? Workplace 50 miles away? "Need" to have 2-3 cars for one household because "public transport sucks"? An EV won't fix your massive carbon footprint, it will just prop up your entitlement. And in a time when most well-paid, EV-affording jobs moved at home, people bought more cars (EVs included) than manufacturers ever expected.

Eliminate the need to buy a personal vehicle and people won’t buy them. The reality is people aren’t going to utilize public transit until it doesn’t suck. In the vast majority of the US that is unfortunately the case. You can’t expect to fix the problem just by attacking the symptom.

People also aren’t going to upend their whole lives to futilely make their lives more miserable while corporate polluters get to weasel their ways out of reducing their own emissions.

The problem is solved by regulation and fixing the issues that cause people to buy personal vehicles. Not this personal responsibility bullshit that shifts the burden completely on those who have the least power to solve the problem.

Here's a personal example:

The sum of all public transit in the entire township where I live is zero. Not minimal, not occasional. Zero. No trains, no buses, nothing.

If I were to move to the closest city that does have public transit, a house of the same size as mine would be more than twice the price, and would be on one-eighth as much land. Its property taxes would be double what I pay now. We'd still need at least one car, even if monthly bus passes (which cost as much as a month's gas for a compact hatchback) took over the daily duties, and synchronizing bus transfers with daycare pick-up times is.... awkward. We currently max out the annual contributions to my kids' education savings plans and our retirement plans; if we lived in the city, the mortgage would eat up most of that money, and we'd have to bet on house price increases to fund our retirements.

That's just one example of why "You need to give up your cars and move to a place that has transit" is not a solution at this point in time. We need to decarbonize transportation, and we need to do it fast. But mass transit really only works in dense urban & suburban areas, and is tightly intertwined with affordability, retirement savings, wages, the social safety net, and a lot of other very complex issues. It's not a panacea on its own.

So you moved far from a city because you pay less money, you use 8 times more land for your house, have to drive a personal car dozens of miles daily, and implicitly need a more complex road network, and you don't have to bother with "awkward" bus schedules. But you'd drive an EV so hooray saving the climate?

People constantly put their needs first: to save money, to use more land, to have more roads, to drive more every day in their personal car but they suddenly draw the line at whether it's an EV or not? That's what makes the difference between the "good" guys and the "bad" (trombone repairmen) guys? That's what allows people to signal virtue and pretend they're doing something for someone other than themselves.

I lived for a long time in a country where car ownership rate was maybe 10%. People went to work every day, went to the seaside in summer, to the mountains in winter, etc. all while using public transport of some kind and very, very rarely by cramming into someone's personal car.

But now anyone can wave a report in other people's faces and then turn around and say public transport sucks so screw that report.

I don't see why you're having a cognitively dissonant crisis about it.

People will always act in their own interests -- that's self-explanatory. You can scream about global awareness all you want, but if society has made the more energy intensive, more polluting, less efficient, etc etc -- option the one people -can afford-, take a guess which option they are going to by and large select

I live in a society that is entirely built around car ownership. Lots of us are pushing very hard to change that, and to get more public transit, and to solve all these other issues. But those are public policy things that have to be solved on a municipal scale and on a national scale. Within the framework we're given, all of us try to make the best choices we can with the resources we have.

Would I like to live in a civilized town with no cars, electric subways running every 5 minutes, and solar panels on every roof? Of course! But that doesn't exist anywhere in my country. All of the urban cores that have fast & reliable transit are so expensive to live in that friends who make far more $$ than I do are struggling to stay above water. Am I supposed to abandon my job and family, forget about growing my own food and firewood, leave the country, and find a "more sustainable" way to live, or do I crunch the math to try to achieve the lowest total impact I can for the kind of life that makes my kids, my wife, and me happy? That's the question most of my peers are facing here, and we're all trying to do the best we can with it.

This isn't a personal responsibility thing. This isn't an "if only all you Escalade buyers would drive EVs" thing. This is the intersection of housing affordability, wage growth / stagnation, real-estate speculation, money laundering, the climate crisis, the death of defined benefit pensions, traffic volumes getting out of control, public transit funding / policy, and a lot of other closely intertwined issues that all have to be solved, quickly, in order to make meaningful progress.

It's a bloody hard problem.

 

[zorkum]

" it's a lot of fun"

That really seems to be the only important thing about cars

Meanwhile, hypocrits talk about being unable to do something about climate change …

 

[dal20402]

I have a car show that happens by me too. And every month the cops are out there waiting for the sideshows or idiots doing burnouts. Plenty of them get pulled over and get tickets. Seems like that's a first step before jumping straight to industry-wide regulation.

The cops in my area are half the participants, and always side with car drivers against anyone else whenever there's a crash. I've lived here five years and have seen someone pulled over on my street once.

 

[jimisawesome]

Who is this master builder in Kentucky? That seems like an interesting story in itself..

I'd imagine it's not one guy and there's a team of them. They're most likely the most experienced and top builders pulled off the production lines elsewhere. I'd also think at some point in the future people will decide who the best one was and then those cars will get higher prices at auction.

(@Gitlin wouldn't a piece on "a day with a Cadillac master builder" be an amazing Ars piece?)

The real prize here would be getting to work with one of them for a day on the car you eventually take possession of. Much better than the Corvette factory tour imo. But then the kinds of guys who'd be interested in an opportunity like that aren't usually the kinds of guys who buy these cars.

The LS9s get built at the same factory as the Corvette, and yes there's more than one master builder, it's just that each engine is the product of one person's work. Acura did something similar for the NSX, I wrote about them last year a bit: https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2020/03/12 ... -supercar/

I'll make a note of your suggestion and see if the opportunity arises!

another vote for "please do that article" (even if it ends up more focused to the 'Vette than any of the Cadillac vehicles) I loved the article you did about the Acura line.

My mother in law's SO worked on a GM assembly line for years: hearing some of the stories about how the line worked was always fascinating for me, including a comparison to high tech manufacturing lines that I had experience with.

These engines are not built on a line they are built by 1 individual at their own work station in a separate section of the Bowling Green Plant. They just take a cart that has all the parts and then work on the engine at the desk. The non-top of the line engines are built on a line though, the new Corvette's LT2 for example is built at Tonawanda, NY.

 

[Demolition]

People in pricey cadillacs are near the least category of people I'd worry about driving foolishly around me.

Most-viewed article on Jalopnik's front page, last week...

Woman Photographed Leaning Out Of A Cadillac Brandishing An AK-47

 

[jimisawesome]

If only they made a wagon too...

They used to but surprise surprise the 1000s of comments on car sites of people demanding and saying they would buy one did not lead to any actual sales.

I suspect maybe rising gas prices and insane care prices (at the moment) are the likely cause
& probably the dealer markup

We were looking at swapping out our cx5 for an awd or model y & the prices are insane at the moment & so that plan has been set aside for now.

LOL at the thought of a dealer markup on a station wagon. They can't give them away and usually only have them on the lot because a customer backed out of an order or need to take one in order to get some allotment slots for cars that actually sell. The only people that want a wagon are those that want a used brown station wagon that has hit 80% depreciation but yet can't stop demanding them on comment sections.

 

[dmccarty]

Its one single person that assembles the entire engine. IIRC there are about a dozen or two on a shift and they produce all the top supercharged engines such as this, the ZR1 and the ZL1.

In the C7 days you can option it to include a build your engine if you were buying a ZR1 where you would assist even build your entire engine. With COVID I doubt this is currently an option but might be again in a year or two.

I didn't read that part closely enough then. I thought there was one master builder for the car, not just the engine. Thanks for the info.

 

[dmccarty]

(@Gitlin wouldn't a piece on "a day with a Cadillac master builder" be an amazing Ars piece?)

The LS9s get built at the same factory as the Corvette, and yes there's more than one master builder, it's just that each engine is the product of one person's work. Acura did something similar for the NSX, I wrote about them last year a bit: https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2020/03/12 ... -supercar/

I'll make a note of your suggestion and see if the opportunity arises!

Thanks, that was a nice write-up of the NSX and their build process that I missed.

And when you do that write-up, if you need anyone to come along for *ahem* moral support or anything...

 

[f00barbob]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

I have a tip from Sim City 2000 that might be helpful here: inadequate road repair funding should solve the problem.

That or speed bumps/humps/dips. Annoying, yes, but effective at dealing with vehicles that are rather close to the ground.

 

[mmmancact]

I'm really over ICEs. Lamenting that I might still need to do no better than a hybrid for the next family vehicle. Can't wait for the world to be hydrocarbon free(ish - I'm realistic).

But yeah, I'd take the manual, too. I'm reminded of an old Top Gear where Clarkson was despondent over an Aston that was supposedly the last to have a manual gearbox. Nothing like being connected to the machine...

 

[ERIFNOMI]

The 10-speed starts at $88,165, but that includes some equipment you can't get with the three-pedal car, including adaptive cruise control and lane keeping and physical controls for the touchscreen infotainment system.

I have a particular dislike for OEMs who intentionally and unnecessarily cripple the stick-shift car. Almost all of the advanced driver-assist tech is just as compatible with the manual transmission as with the automatic. Yes, even adaptive cruise control – you just have it flash the "Please Downshift" light when driver intervention is required. Which won't be often, with this much torque on tap.

If you want traffic jam assist, i.e. "let's slip the torque converter to creep along at the speed of boredom", then yeah, that's not going to happen with a 3-pedal setup. But the rest of the omissions are just a marketing decision.

You see a form of this all the time in cheaper segments: one trim will have a rather nicely engineered 6-speed auto with a wide ratio spread and a very tall 6th gear, and then the lower trim will have a clunky 5-speed stick that feels like junkyard salvage and that turns 3200 rpm on the highway. Then they boast about "Look how good our automatic is, you really want the automatic!" Well, engineer the two options to be of equal quality, like Mazda (usually) does, and we'll see how they compare in a fair shootout.

There is an exceptionally small part of the American market that wants a manual. Even less who fall into this group probably care for ADAS features if they bought the manual “to be more engaged” with the vehicle. Requiring driver intervention in a feature like ACC where the point is to have the car slow down and accelerate on its own kind of defeats the point of the feature in the first place. It’s not surprising OEM’s aren’t wasting their time.

In terms of actual driving experience. Manufacturers of high end vehicles don’t tend to cheap out on the manual experience. Even the author of the article prefers the manual for driver engagement. Automatics however are always going to be quicker just by nature of eliminating need for driver involvement in shifting.

In the lower end segment it wouldn’t matter how great the manual is. Americans don’t buy them just on basis of them being manuals. So from an OEM standpoint why make it more than a cost saving option?

But they already offer that equipment on the exact same car with a different transmission. It's not this is a manual only model and they'd have to put some actual work into adapting ACC to it.

I drive a manual with adaptive cruise, lane assist, auto braking, etc. It can do everything but shift gears. It's not that big of a deal, especially in a high power car that can maintain and accelerate between any reasonable highway speeds in top gear.

Yes, I enjoy driving a manual. Call it driver engagement if you like. But I still occasionally go on a 3-4 nonstop highway drive where I can put it in cruise and relax a bit.

 

[XavierItzmann]

Question for you: would you prefer we went back to the 1980s, then, with speedometers that only went to 85mph? Because 85mph is well above speed limits on almost all US roads. That's why they did that.

Do you know why they stopped doing that?

The 85 MPH speedometer limit for cars was imposed by president Carter (D) on September 1, 1979.

It was eliminated by President Reagan (R) on March 25, 1982.

 

[spartanical]

Makes me happy to see that an American car company has found the balance between agressive American styling and European sophistication.

That is a beautiful car and it seems to be gimmick-free in terms of aesthetic features.

 

[NetMage]

If I can get the manual with paddle controls instead of heel-toe, I'd get the manual. My poor calf hates me these last few years and I just can't get back on a foot clutch.

Anyways, sounds like you'd be well sorted with any computer controlled automatic transmission.

Did you mean computer controlled manual transmission? That is a basically what the PDK is.

While the Cadillac automatic transmission may shift faster than a PDK, I wonder if it has the same continuous torque as a dual clutch automated manual like the PDK has?

 

[C64 raids Bungling Bay]

Damn this is a wonderful car. If I can find a manual for msrp, I think I'll buy one and drive it ten or fifteen years. Usually prefer smaller sports cars, but this is basically a 4 door vette. Camaro, mustang, C7 vette, or p-car would be the only alternatives. I wouldn't track it. Anyone who really enjoys competition knows you end up with a dedicated race car, truck, and trailer. Is it insane money? Maybe. But it won't depreciate too much.

 

[Adreaver]

Welp, I was going to just going to generally comment on the concept of such a vehicle, in terms of some peoples desire for speed and the last great hurrah of ICEs.

But the forum has already gone right of the rails.

Pony request time? Methinks so.

Not on page 4 it's not.

Page 10.

On topic, I like the idea of ICE cars as feats of engineering more than as vehicles for a to b. I'd love to take a really fast car on a track at least once, but I don't particularly care whether it's an ICE or BEV.

My next daily driver will be a BEV hatchback or small SUV. My kids will get my current car if it's still running rather than buy new.

 

[Adreaver]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

 

[Vessuvius]

As accomplished as the CT5-V Blackwing is, I think it might actually be overkill.

But look at the old Duesenbergs, gullwing Mercedes, and tail finned muscle cars of eras gone by, and think about this car in that context. If you're buying the last of an era, would you want anything except overkill?

Speaking with respect to the final Duesenberg Models to ever leave the production-line, and by which I mean the Duesenberg Model SSJ Cabriolet in particular with a bespoke bodywork crafted entirely by hand through The Central Manufacturing Company in Indiana, a vehicle which was made all the more remarkable in generating a power-output slightly in excess of 400 bhp, and in the Depression Era no less, through the use of a massive Roots-Type Blower and a unique 'Ram's Horn' manifold which branched-off into four separate directions at its apex, all fed with dual overhead Carburetors of a similarly unique design not found in any other Model; well, I consider it one of the most beautiful and technically marvelous vehicles to ever be produced.

More specifically, I consider it second in appeal only to the final iteration of the 911 GT1 Straßenversion, with a heavily revised bodywork, built for homologation purposes as then dictated by FIA rules during the single year of 1998, and of which only one example is known to exist. As a related fact, this final variant of the 911 GT1 was quite astonishing for the time especially as it regards gross-weight, being a rather light 2095 lbs even with a full-tank of fuel in tow, which was enabled by its being one of, if not the first vehicle to use Carbon Fiber as a structural component in the majority of its construction.

 

[Adreaver]

If only they made a wagon too...

They used to but surprise surprise the 1000s of comments on car sites of people demanding and saying they would buy one did not lead to any actual sales.

I suspect maybe rising gas prices and insane care prices (at the moment) are the likely cause
& probably the dealer markup

We were looking at swapping out our cx5 for an awd or model y & the prices are insane at the moment & so that plan has been set aside for now.

LOL at the thought of a dealer markup on a station wagon. They can't give them away and usually only have them on the lot because a customer backed out of an order or need to take one in order to get some allotment slots for cars that actually sell. The only people that want a wagon are those that want a used brown station wagon that has hit 80% depreciation but yet can't stop demanding them on comment sections.

I for one would love a good station wagon. Not like a 4 door hatchback, like an actual wagon large enough to fit a third row rear facing seat with room for adults.

 

[Huevos Rancheros]

Good thing is Cadillac cars are already so overweight, switching to EV no one will notice the extra lard. When I see stories about 2.5 ton EV "sports cars" I can only laugh.

 

[fragile]

The point of these cars is not to behave like an idiot on streets, you don't need a fast car to send someone (or yourself) to the hospital by doing something stupid. Any old beater will do (speaking from indirect experience).

And yet, we are both fully aware that before long there will be some fucktard exiting a Cars and Coffee event completely fucking sideways in one and very likely taking out a few other cars or a sticking it deep into the scenery or both.....

They are on the upper end of affordable for those people that have graduated from their Mustangs and Hellcats etc and want to have the latest 200mph projectile and still lack the skills to control it and the ability to limit their urges to show off in public.

and the excuse will be that their foot slipped or there was some gravel or a rabbit ran out or......

As for the car, yeah, 200mph stealth continent crosser - just my sort of thing 30 years ago, back then I had a Saab 9000 Aero that had been fettled by Abbot Racing - 400hp in that thing and it was simply glorious to blast across Europe in it. Sitting at 200kmh, knowing that you could dial up another 100kmh at will.......

 

[fragile]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

Its all about momentum - I would rather be hit by someone in a Nissan Leaf (1500kg). at 25mph than a Telsa X (2700kg) at the same speed.

Nissan - 16,764 kg·m/s
Tesla - 30,175 kg·m/s

Not quite double, but the Tesla is going to do a hell of a lot more damage to me than the Nissan. The Nissan needs to be travelling at over 45mph before it will carry the same momentum as a 25ph model X.

So the 50mph Nissan Leaf will do the same amount of damage as a Model X just over the speed limit........

 

[Adreaver]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

Its all about momentum - I would rather be hit by someone in a Nissan Leaf (1500kg). at 25mph than a Telsa X (2700kg) at the same speed.

Nissan - 16,764 kg·m/s
Tesla - 30,175 kg·m/s

Not quite double, but the Tesla is going to do a hell of a lot more damage to me than the Nissan. The Nissan needs to be travelling at over 45mph before it will carry the same momentum as a 25ph model X.

So the 50mph Nissan Leaf will do the same amount of damage as a Model X just over the speed limit........

Once you clear the floor for "an impact this strong will kill you", it is irrelevant how much further beyond that threshold you go.

The problem is unsafe drivers, not that heavy cars exist.

 

[rosen380]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

Its all about momentum - I would rather be hit by someone in a Nissan Leaf (1500kg). at 25mph than a Telsa X (2700kg) at the same speed.

Nissan - 16,764 kg·m/s
Tesla - 30,175 kg·m/s

Not quite double, but the Tesla is going to do a hell of a lot more damage to me than the Nissan. The Nissan needs to be travelling at over 45mph before it will carry the same momentum as a 25ph model X.

So the 50mph Nissan Leaf will do the same amount of damage as a Model X just over the speed limit........

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... -of-death/

Does the chart there suggest that it is maybe more the shape of the vehicle than the mass?

Just using Hondas:
Sedans: (Accord, Civic, Insight) ~3000-3300lb
Minivan: (Odyssey) ~ 4500lb
Compact SUV (HR-V, CR-V) ~3000-3400lb
Large SUV (Pilot, Passport*) ~4000-4200lb
Large Pickup (Ridgeline) ~ 4500lb

If mass was the driving factor, then (on that chart) it seems that the CUVs should be much closer to the sedans and the minivan should be closer to the large SUVs and pickups.

 

[DancesWithBikers]

The real prize here would be getting to work with one of them for a day on the car you eventually take possession of.

Having babysat people who knew nothing (and/or had a highly overinflated opinion of what little they did know) through trying to do my job, that sounds like a terrible thing to inflict upon these craftsmen.

"Hey, I know you do this every day for a living, but it would be a lot better if you do the way I do in my driveway back home."

 

[fragile]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

Its all about momentum - I would rather be hit by someone in a Nissan Leaf (1500kg). at 25mph than a Telsa X (2700kg) at the same speed.

Nissan - 16,764 kg·m/s
Tesla - 30,175 kg·m/s

Not quite double, but the Tesla is going to do a hell of a lot more damage to me than the Nissan. The Nissan needs to be travelling at over 45mph before it will carry the same momentum as a 25ph model X.

So the 50mph Nissan Leaf will do the same amount of damage as a Model X just over the speed limit........

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... -of-death/

Does the chart there suggest that it is maybe more the shape of the vehicle than the mass?

Just using Hondas:
Sedans: (Accord, Civic, Insight) ~3000-3300lb
Minivan: (Odyssey) ~ 4500lb
Compact SUV (HR-V, CR-V) ~3000-3400lb
Large SUV (Pilot, Passport*) ~4000-4200lb
Large Pickup (Ridgeline) ~ 4500lb

If mass was the driving factor, then (on that chart) it seems that the CUVs should be much closer to the sedans and the minivan should be closer to the large SUVs and pickups.

Here in communist UK, we have significant pedestrian safety standards that apply. Most UK market cars do not have acres of chrome and pointy bits to impale pedestrians on and if they do it is because they are much older and before the time that pedestrian safety was a thing.

A friend works on this subject at MIRA, they test cars for pedestrian impact survivability. Momentum is a massive part of how deadly the vehicle is, but also the height and design of the front end is massively important - if you look at many European cars they have a similar nose height and a similar hood angle and relatively flat fronts. All of this is designed to do as little harm to a pedestrian as possible. There are also soft sections in hoods too for the same reason.

America has no such pedestrian safety standards, if they did they would not be able to sell many of the more popular vehicles.

If I am going to go head to head with a modern car, I think I'd rate my chances against a Polestar 2 - https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/polestar/2/42252

I'd really rather not get hit by a Dacia Logan - https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/dacia/logan/42505

Telsa X is pretty good - https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model-x/39141 and on a par with the Leaf - https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/nissan/leaf/32742

So then it all comes down to momentum.....

 

[DSL987 [DSLR]]

I mean, I wouldn't buy one of these to tool around the city. Gonna need some asphalt away from the residential areas. Open interstate highways sound like a fun time in this thing.

The only appropriate place for going 200mph is a track.

There's not many tracks that will let you hit 200mph, as the straights are not long enough.

 

[MMarsh]

I mean, I wouldn't buy one of these to tool around the city. Gonna need some asphalt away from the residential areas. Open interstate highways sound like a fun time in this thing.

The only appropriate place for going 200mph is a track.

There's not many tracks that will let you hit 200mph, as the straights are not long enough.

At our local (well, 1h away) track, most "normal" street-legal cars top out at 130-150 km/h on the back straight. Some of the Porsche, Ferrari, etc. will hit 180 or even 200 km/h at the braking point.

Only a handful of tracks have straights long enough to get faster than that. Or you do it on ovals, which are fast, but not nearly as fun or as challenging to drive as something with tight twisty bits where skill matters more than horsepower.

 

[Dzov]

I mean, I wouldn't buy one of these to tool around the city. Gonna need some asphalt away from the residential areas. Open interstate highways sound like a fun time in this thing.

The only appropriate place for going 200mph is a track.

There's not many tracks that will let you hit 200mph, as the straights are not long enough.

At our local (well, 1h away) track, most "normal" street-legal cars top out at 130-150 km/h on the back straight. Some of the Porsche, Ferrari, etc. will hit 180 or even 200 km/h at the braking point.

Only a handful of tracks have straights long enough to get faster than that. Or you do it on ovals, which are fast, but not nearly as fun or as challenging to drive as something with tight twisty bits where skill matters more than horsepower.

200 km/h (124 mph) top speed on a race track? I've been in hondas exceeding that on a standard highway.

 

[DancesWithBikers]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

Its all about momentum - I would rather be hit by someone in a Nissan Leaf (1500kg). at 25mph than a Telsa X (2700kg) at the same speed.

Nissan - 16,764 kg·m/s
Tesla - 30,175 kg·m/s

Not quite double, but the Tesla is going to do a hell of a lot more damage to me than the Nissan. The Nissan needs to be travelling at over 45mph before it will carry the same momentum as a 25ph model X.

So the 50mph Nissan Leaf will do the same amount of damage as a Model X just over the speed limit........

And that makes no difference at all to your puny, ugly bag of mostly water.

 

[jazzylarry]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

Its all about momentum - I would rather be hit by someone in a Nissan Leaf (1500kg). at 25mph than a Telsa X (2700kg) at the same speed.

Nissan - 16,764 kg·m/s
Tesla - 30,175 kg·m/s

Not quite double, but the Tesla is going to do a hell of a lot more damage to me than the Nissan. The Nissan needs to be travelling at over 45mph before it will carry the same momentum as a 25ph model X.

So the 50mph Nissan Leaf will do the same amount of damage as a Model X just over the speed limit........

And that makes no difference at all to your puny, ugly bag of mostly water.

Almost any speed is deadly, even technically 0 speed.

The real issue is whether the speed is considered safe for the road and environs.

 

[Killjoy]

If only they made a wagon too...

They used to but surprise surprise the 1000s of comments on car sites of people demanding and saying they would buy one did not lead to any actual sales.

Actual sales were to funeral parlors. After minor
refitting they were generally put to use hauling light cargo, often 'procession speed.'

 

[Killjoy]

So since you are here I gather you're looking to buy a petrol car then?
Or just get some kinky kicks from reading about them?

I can't afford this car, or likely even drive it properly, so color me kinky.

 

[MMarsh]

I mean, I wouldn't buy one of these to tool around the city. Gonna need some asphalt away from the residential areas. Open interstate highways sound like a fun time in this thing.

The only appropriate place for going 200mph is a track.

There's not many tracks that will let you hit 200mph, as the straights are not long enough.

At our local (well, 1h away) track, most "normal" street-legal cars top out at 130-150 km/h on the back straight. Some of the Porsche, Ferrari, etc. will hit 180 or even 200 km/h at the braking point.

Only a handful of tracks have straights long enough to get faster than that. Or you do it on ovals, which are fast, but not nearly as fun or as challenging to drive as something with tight twisty bits where skill matters more than horsepower.

200 km/h (124 mph) top speed on a race track? I've been in hondas exceeding that on a standard highway.

Yes, if you have a long straight highway, it's easy to get just about any car up to a speed where controlling it in an emergency stop would be nearly impossible.
Most of the tracks around here are twisty, with tight corners and very short straights. You come flying out of one corner at 50 to 70 km/h, you floor it for 5 to 10 seconds, then you start running out of room to brake for the next corner. There are always a few drivers who wait too late, miss the turn, and have to brake into the runoff zone.

 

[Dzov]

I mean, I wouldn't buy one of these to tool around the city. Gonna need some asphalt away from the residential areas. Open interstate highways sound like a fun time in this thing.

The only appropriate place for going 200mph is a track.

There's not many tracks that will let you hit 200mph, as the straights are not long enough.

At our local (well, 1h away) track, most "normal" street-legal cars top out at 130-150 km/h on the back straight. Some of the Porsche, Ferrari, etc. will hit 180 or even 200 km/h at the braking point.

Only a handful of tracks have straights long enough to get faster than that. Or you do it on ovals, which are fast, but not nearly as fun or as challenging to drive as something with tight twisty bits where skill matters more than horsepower.

200 km/h (124 mph) top speed on a race track? I've been in hondas exceeding that on a standard highway.

Yes, if you have a long straight highway, it's easy to get just about any car up to a speed where controlling it in an emergency stop would be nearly impossible.
Most of the tracks around here are twisty, with tight corners and very short straights. You come flying out of one corner at 50 to 70 km/h, you floor it for 5 to 10 seconds, then you start running out of room to brake for the next corner. There are always a few drivers who wait too late, miss the turn, and have to brake into the runoff zone.

Fair enough, and the race sounds awesome!

 

[f00barbob]

You are both very wrong. I bet you have no problem with a Tesla Model S P100D on the street.

I daily drive a vehicle that is even (slightly) faster 0-60 than this, but with *only* a 179MPH top speed. I rarely ever get a chance to push the throttle past ~40% even on the highway, but it still puts a huge smile on my face every day when driving it even at legal (mostly) speeds because well engineered cars like this are even fun at low speeds, they sound good, they take off from lights well, they take corners like a dream, they allow you to pass slow drivers / trucks in way that you actually enjoy having been stuck behind them for the last 12 miles, in general they just make life a little more fun. You don't have to drive like an ass or break the law to enjoy them. Yes I've taken mine on a track and really pushed it hard, once (a d I'd like to do it more), but most of the time I simply take pleasure in taking that curve at roughly the posted speed limit while most everyone else has to take it 20mph slower, and pulling onto the highway pinned to the seat grinning ear to ear.

If you think cars like this shouldn't exist, please don't buy one, but on behalf of those of us that enjoy driving and all the fun it can entail, also please shut up, you sound like a communist thinking because you don't enjoy it no one else can.

It would be nice if everyone with cars this fast was responsible on the street. Unfortunately, they are not, and the result is hundreds of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities a year just in our densest cities.

I live a bit under three miles from downtown Seattle, in a city neighborhood. The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. It leads to a popular lakefront park where, every other Sunday morning during the good-weather season, there is a car show. Most of the car-show participants drive right past my house. If they would drive past at the limit, it would be great fun to sit in my front yard and watch all the machinery. But instead a substantial number of them drive like asshats, racing up and down the street at speeds that often approach three times the limit, threatening the safety of everyone in the neighborhood. They and our Saturday-night drag racers are convincing me that people can't be trusted with fast cars and that a heavy-handed approach (required governors, strict enforcement) is the only way to get a reasonably safe neighborhood back.

You can easily kill someone doing 50 in a 25 in a Nissan Leaf.

Its all about momentum - I would rather be hit by someone in a Nissan Leaf (1500kg). at 25mph than a Telsa X (2700kg) at the same speed.

Nissan - 16,764 kg·m/s
Tesla - 30,175 kg·m/s

Not quite double, but the Tesla is going to do a hell of a lot more damage to me than the Nissan. The Nissan needs to be travelling at over 45mph before it will carry the same momentum as a 25ph model X.

So the 50mph Nissan Leaf will do the same amount of damage as a Model X just over the speed limit........

Once you clear the floor for "an impact this strong will kill you", it is irrelevant how much further beyond that threshold you go.

The problem is unsafe drivers, not that heavy cars exist.

Regarding pedestrian accidents and the weight of vehicles, it is also relevant that the impact of the vehicle does not necessarily cause the fatal injuries, but also falling back to the ground after being flung into the air. Plenty of people have been killed by (or died as a direct result of) impact from vehicles much smaller than cars, including common bicycles.

Plenty of contributory factors in such cases (such as, conceivably, age of the victim in this example), but it has happened.