Beta software update promises fixes for Studio Display’s webcam woes
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Good news. So… what was going on with the people who claimed to have made an update to the Studio display firmware that had no effect?
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Is this the most awkward new Apple product launch in a long time? Good they're working on a fix, but one wonders how this issue passed their famous QC in the first place.
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I have a Studio Display, and I use the camera. I just need to have my head on Zoom calls, I'm not doing anything wild or fancy, so I am admittedly not overly picky, but uh, it works fine? It's a huge improvement over my old iMac camera, so I'm happy.
I had to turn off the Center Stage tracking though, it was just annoying.
Not saying people don't have the right to complain or it shouldn't be improved, but from the way I was hearing bitching I was worried before I got mine. Then I used it and it was fine.
The internet has a tendency to make complaints feel bigger than they are though.
I had to turn off the Center Stage tracking though, it was just annoying.
Not saying people don't have the right to complain or it shouldn't be improved, but from the way I was hearing bitching I was worried before I got mine. Then I used it and it was fine.
The internet has a tendency to make complaints feel bigger than they are though.
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Glad they're trying to address it, but I'm still a little curious how a display with, essentially, a whole 9th gen iPad inside, has worse camera quality than the same iPad.
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@Andrew or Aurich
I'm curious why you would need the Monterey beta. I thought the display itself is running a stripped down version of iOS and may/should be able to use the host computers wifi connection to download the firmware update
I'm curious why you would need the Monterey beta. I thought the display itself is running a stripped down version of iOS and may/should be able to use the host computers wifi connection to download the firmware update
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Agreed. You'd think they'd use literally the same hardware and software stack, no?
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Ok, but on the other hand: this is not a cheap product, and the integrated camera is supposed to be a feature. I don't think it's a problem to have some expectations of quality beyond "it works fine for Zoom if you aren't picky".
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It is possibly only to limit the people who have access to it to people who are already opted into getting beta material, simply so normal users aren't involved if there turns out to be an unexpected problem at scale. It may also be that there are some tweaks to the Mac end of the equation, given that you can turn on and off Center Stage from the control panel for instance.
I have a Studio Display, and I'm on the MacOS beta and have updated 15.4, but the firmware update is not available to me so far yet. Which means not only is it limited to beta users, but they may also be doing a gradual roll out.
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For the price, people probably want MiniLED or even OLED. Or at least HDR.
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(2) The reviews agree that even the version that shipped (before pending firmware upgrades) has a very good sound system. Saying it's inferior to a $100 pair of powered bookshelf speakers seems like a [Citation required] sort of claim.
(3) The camera FW was broken, we all agree on that. That doesn't mean it will still be broken in 3 months...
(4) You left out a singularly important difference, namely microphones. This is something where Apple has worked really hard (both for conferencing use cases and for talking to Siri) and IMHO the difference is striking compared to 'generic". I can easily tell when I talk on the phone to friends who are not using Apple equipment (across a variety of different types of headsets) because things like wind noise and muffled voice are so obvious. Likewise using Siri with a lousy mic (even the mics on my 2017 iMac Pro) compared to using Siri with say 2021 HW is a striking difference.
This is even apart from more specialized use cases like podcasters or people wanting to record their singing or instrument playing.
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From the Ars review of the Studio Display:
"The display panel itself should make you happy as long as you’re not expecting it to do anything particularly advanced—you won’t get Mini LED or OLED, HDR, ProMotion, or variable refresh rate support. Apple has focused on making an exceptionally nice-looking 5120×2880 IPS screen, with all the benefits and shortcomings that entails.
"... Its contrast ratio of 1040:1 (as measured at 200 nits) is good for an IPS display but not exceptional.
"[light bloom & backlight unevenness] ... This is all par for the course with consumer IPS displays—Apple is shipping a very nice screen, but it can’t magically change the intrinsic properties of the display technology it’s using.
"The Bad
* Some backlight bleed/unevenness, though your mileage will vary, and this is typical for IPS displays"
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A lot of questions as to how this happened in a new product, considering it’s using very similar OS to iPad OS or iOS…
The answer:
Apple’s unannounced products tend to get developed in silos, and engineers are on a need to know basis with these products, including OS/firmware developers. The entire iPad OS team doesn’t have access to the new devices. This is why new Apple products ship with different build numbers than released products of the same “versions” of their OS, before they get merged downstream several months later.
This is not an excuse - just an explanation that I’ve seen on the web and heard on podcasts from people who won’t go on the record but are aware of Apple’s business and engineering processes. It’s a case where Apple’s secrecy, even internally, can cause a negative experience for their customers willing to get the latest and greatest from them.
Edit: Typos.
The answer:
Apple’s unannounced products tend to get developed in silos, and engineers are on a need to know basis with these products, including OS/firmware developers. The entire iPad OS team doesn’t have access to the new devices. This is why new Apple products ship with different build numbers than released products of the same “versions” of their OS, before they get merged downstream several months later.
This is not an excuse - just an explanation that I’ve seen on the web and heard on podcasts from people who won’t go on the record but are aware of Apple’s business and engineering processes. It’s a case where Apple’s secrecy, even internally, can cause a negative experience for their customers willing to get the latest and greatest from them.
Edit: Typos.
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I love how you assume that it's normal to have $100 desktop speakers.
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Me being me again, but I developed a distinct hatred of all-in-ones back in the early 1980s, mostly from sound systems and such.
Living as I did in apartments, I had limited space, so got an all-in-one that had a record player, tape deck, amplifier, radio and speakers all built into it. About 60 seconds after the warranty expired, the amplifier decided to stop producing the bass. I'd heard other horror stories from friends and such about how one component went bad in their AIO systems and they had to replace the whole thing.
My cheap-assed heart said I wasn't going to spend a bazillion bucks on something that couldn't have some component be replaced for much less. So I went to component systems, and while some part or another of them had issues later in life, and were replaced for less, I never had to spend as much as I did for that stand alone system which was inferior in sound and quality overall, too.
That attitude carried over into my computer life once computers became part of my life. AIO's suck. I've had components die on me, and replaced them quickly and affordably off and on over the years. While I was doing IT, I'd explain to people who bought AIO items (printers and even monitor/computers) that once something went wrong with one part of it, the whole thing needed to be replaced, because repairs were usually more expensive than replacing, and in AIO computer systems, USUALLY when one thing went bad, it took the rest of the device with it.
AIO's offend my frugal nature.
I believe my current monitor has speakers, but they're not plugged in. The speakers I had before I got it are still perfectly good, and give excellent sound. The monitor doesn't have a webcam, either, which is a feature to me not a flaw. My webcam can be unplugged when/if I feel the need, and I can position the webcam so there's nothing worth seeing in the background if I so choose.
Don't even get me started on the idea of a smart monitor...
I get that people want things to be convenient, and want AIO's because they save space and such. I get that people will also buy products from maker A because they believe maker A makes better products than maker B, regardless of the evidence one way or the other. I get that people have biases and beliefs that defy logic and reason, and still make it work for them.
Attitude is everything, after all.
But in my little slice of my personal reality, AIO's are evil, regardless of who makes them. It's a lesson I learned almost half a century ago and keep in mind half a century later. In my personal reality, I make components work for me. Many don't share my reality because what they have works for them, and that's fine. This is just explaining my reality FWIW, and believe it or not, it's not about Apple at all.
Just about AIO's.
/rant
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5k is a lot more resolution than 4k, though. It's about 56% more pixels. I moved back to a 5k display (LG Ultrafine) after a couple years using a curved 4k Dell. The resolution difference is pretty major, and not just because Mac OS really likes to run in 4:1 scaling.
I can't really see the value in the Studio display when the LG one is readily available for ~$900 and is the exact same panel (and also comes with a camera and speaker, although nothing to write home about). If the Studio display were $2,000 but came with an actual TB4 passthrough and mini LEDs, it would be a much tougher choice.
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Not really. It's just physics. You can't bounce anything other than bass off a surface and expect the reflection to sound good. You'll find this in any textbook about audio or speaker design.
I have a 27" iMac and all the reviews say it has an excellent sound system too. Compared to a laptop, it does have much more bass, and that's what people usually fixate on when they're not doing a deep dive into sound quality. But the iMac is dramatically outperformed by most speakers that actually face the user.
We'll see. It sounds like the fixes they're implementing so far have to do with post-processing. That's not really encouraging. What you really wanted to hear from Apple was "hey, we had a bug in the software and we fixed it, whoops!," not "we're trying to make this better by fidgeting with the contrast."
Meh. Have you tried a recent ~$70 Logitech webcam with multiple microphones? It's pretty good. Wouldn't be surprised if it's better than the Studio Display's, also considering it's facing forward.
My 27" iMac also supposedly has a good microphone array but it's also noticeably outperformed by a $25 gaming headset.
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I'm not a fan of lack of physical shutter. There are sticky options but come on, should I really need it with a monitor that set me back a few grand? No, no it shouldn't.
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The Studio 5K display has a pixel count about 75% higher. That's not a small difference. And the Studio Display speakers are built-in and don't take up space or add wires to your desk as bookcase speakers do.
Ultimately yes, if you are willing to accept an inferior product, you can pay less. It has always been thus.
What is lacking currently is a superior product at the same or higher price as the Studio Display, short of the Pro XDR display, which at $6,000 (including stand, excluding camera and speakers) is out of my reach,
I look forward to the Studio Display software update leaving beta. The Studio Display camera is pretty shitty as-is and a fix will be most welcome.
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I know it's been said before and it's all anecdotal, but I find Apple's software QC has been in a bit of a decline since they switched to a yearly release cadence for all of their operating systems. A lot of stuff is being rewritten and features are being shipped broken, (think 10.9 and Mail.app, 10.10 and discoveryd, 10.12 PDF handling, 10.13 System Preferences root security flaw, etc.) and a lot of bugs are taking years to get fixed. The new Music app is full of annoying bugs that haven't been fixed in over two years of me reporting them. It almost feels like some newer devs that aren't familiar with Apple's older stuff make are making changing and breaking stuff without properly testing things.
Lately features have been pushed back instead of being released as buggy (like Universal Control) which is somewhat of an improvement I guess, but I feel Apple is trying to do too much sometimes.
EDIT: typo
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So I can throw a 4K Logicam on and call it a day. But folks need to understand that a higher-resolution camera means MORE bandwidth. And the person at the other end might not want/need 4K. So 1080p res should be fine for most.
Still, I assume the fix is done with the server issue for updates? and that the beta means a final will be out for June Dev Conference likely...
Are these displays in Apple Stores? I need to refer someone to look to see if the Studio Display with Nano is in person, as they would benefit from that. (cost is high for a 27" IPS with tilt/raise stand and Nano coating...)
Still, I assume the fix is done with the server issue for updates? and that the beta means a final will be out for June Dev Conference likely...
Are these displays in Apple Stores? I need to refer someone to look to see if the Studio Display with Nano is in person, as they would benefit from that. (cost is high for a 27" IPS with tilt/raise stand and Nano coating...)
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This has been the reality of laptops for ages now. If it's the only thing holding you back from a high-end monitor, you might invest in a roll of tape?
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Nice. I cancelled my preorder due to that issue along with a few others that were noted. I figured I would wait for things to stabilize. Starting to regret it since as of yesterday there was a two-month backorder.
Honestly considering not even purchasing one until they release a model with a higher refresh. The monitor is great (best in class considering there aren't many 5k displays on the market), but I feel Apple kind of dropped the ball by not including 120hz and HDR.
Honestly considering not even purchasing one until they release a model with a higher refresh. The monitor is great (best in class considering there aren't many 5k displays on the market), but I feel Apple kind of dropped the ball by not including 120hz and HDR.
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For what it is worth, some laptops and webcams have shutters on them.
I was actually excited about the webcam on the Studio Display. PC manufacturers treat webcams like an afterthought. The webcam on my $2,500 razer laptop, for example, looks like absolute garbage. Grainy, 720p video, low framerates, etc.
Some laptops have higher quality webcams, but Apple is in the position to do some amazing stuff with theirs.
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Slightly more "normal" than having a $1,600 computer monitor I'd wager.
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They said it was a bug found at the last minute, too late to fix then. It’s not a major problem fortunately.
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They're not. The firmware update is contained within MacOS version 12.4, currently in beta testing.
As to why, ask yourself how else they could update the monitor. This is similar to how Apple Watch updates are mediated through the paired phone.
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Yeah I have some blue tape on my laptop.... although the continence of having one there makes sense to me. Much less a desktop monitor.
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If it’s just a fixable software bug, it’s not a big deal. People are. Asking it seem to be a major problem. It’s not. I know there are those who delight in every problem Apple has, but this isn’t a real one.
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Only if you read a really, really old textbook.
Reflections have been part of acoustic tuning for decades. Ultrasone, for example, has S-logic which routes treble through a secondary chamber to simulate imaging. In Apple's case, they're probably using the entire glass panel as some sort of conductor plus a whole book of other fancy acoustics tricks.
I don't know if it's better than actual bookshelf speakers, but I've been pretty impressed with Apple's other audio solutions, and size is certainly no guarantee of performance these days. Size might help with loudness, but that isn't a huge deal when you're always going to be sitting 2 feet away from the conductor.
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Well, for starters, macOS could independently check for updates to the display firmware and download them as needed. Bundling them into OS itself only increases bloat of already way too big macOS updates that waste bandwidth and take way too much time to install. Which is even worse when you consider that probably less than 5% of all Macs will ever be connected to said display.
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I know there are people who delight in white-knighting for Apple at every opportunity, but... (how about we just don't do this kind of nonsense?)
If it is just a fixable software "bug" (more like unfinished software stack, which is pretty lame for a company with Apple's resources on a product this expensive), then fine. But, one, we have yet to see if Apple can actually address the complaints with an update. Two, even if it does end up "fixed", it's still okay to complain that the product's quality doesn't match up with expectations before that fix actually comes in.
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Sure, they could of, however that isn't how Apple does things. As for the reason the firmware is in the beta, it is likely because the firmware is in beta as well.
Unlike Windows, most Mac users tend to update to the latest version at some point sooner rather than later. The only folks who don't are those with older hardware that aren't supported by new versions of macOS. That isn't really an issue, because Apple supports Macs going back 7 years: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212551.
Driver and security updates are usually minor point releases.
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