AT&T and Verizon Wireless now charging $20 device upgrade fees

Verizon, at least, lets you bring your own phone without paying an extra fee.

Read the whole story

 

[Drizzt321]

So...a month ago I walked into an AT&T corporate store, said I need a nano-SIM for my new phone. Guy says "ok", goes through his devices, tap, tap, had to do it a different method in the back, handed me my new nano-SIM and I popped it in my new phone, and presto! I was on the network and had full data/voice/text. I honestly don't get this.

 

[nmalinoski]

When I was looking to get off T-Mobile, I was trying to decide between Fi and Cricket.

Cricket's price structure is very simple. You pay the advertised price--all the taxes and fees are rolled into the price you see on their website. $40/mo immediately made it cheaper than the ~$48/mo T-Mo was charging me for their cheapest plan (Simple Choice 30-something grandfathered), and auto-pay drops it to $35 after the first month. AT&T network. Speeds are limited to like 8Mbps, but, really, I have no use for anything faster.

Fi looked interesting, especially at $30 minimum, but then they add the taxes on top of that, and I've had it with that--tacking on 7 or 8 strange fees of indeterminate values on top of the advertised price. Looking at the almost $8 T-Mo was charging me, I imagine the price would be on par or more expensive than Cricket. Fi also has very, very limited phone support, which makes it a non-starter for my backup phone (T-Mo Galaxy Note 2).


Regarding SIM cards, Cricket's are $10 a pop whether you buy them directly or retail. I don't recall if they have any promos. It's a nano-SIM that comes with two different sizes of shims to fit in other devices, so compatibility is pretty moot (If you have a new-new phone, their website might tell you it's incompatible; just go to Target or some other retail place and pick up a SIM kit).

For what it's worth, when I switched phones while still on T-Mobile, I called up their support, told them I needed a new SIM to fit my new phone (Told them the size) and they sent me one. No questions, no fee. Took a while to ship, but I guess that's the tradeoff. The My T-Mo website made it really easy to switch to the new SIM.

 

[stabgotham]

So, if I buy a used iPhone 6s off Craigslist or Ebay, and I insert my existing SIM card into that phone, AT&T is going to charge me $20?

Or am I reading this wrong? Like what's the use case here?

 

[rick*d]

s138[/url]":f3zih0zd]Going back decades to their land line days, the only things AT&T has been able to "invent" are new fees for the same service.

When I worked there that seemed to be their entire business model. They were all about charging for new services it cost them nothing to provide. It never occurred to them to provide those services for free to make themselves more attractive than the competition.

 

[rick*d]

stabgotham[/url]":17mjejcm]So, if I buy a used iPhone 6s off Craigslist or Ebay, and I insert my existing SIM card into that phone, AT&T is going to charge me $20?

Or am I reading this wrong? Like what's the use case here?

Perhaps it's an "ignorance tax" on people who don't know how to swap SIM cards themselves.

 

[heySkippy]

Hasn't it been this way forever?

 

[afidel]

aexcorp[/url]":2hokly1s]

truthyboy15[/url]":2hokly1s]

flerchin[/url]":2hokly1s]Ummmm, if I buy a new phone and put my sim in it they charge me $20? (Well not me, because I'm a Tmobile prepaid customer)

Too bad T-mobile really limits the phones you can buy through their website if you're going the prepaid route.

Who cares?

Buy your own phone elsewhere, possibly at a significant discount from what T-Mobile would charge (assuming that phone is even offered in the first place).

Just check the LTE and HSPA bands to match T-Mobile's, and you're good.

Because UMA only works with branded devices and with T-Mobiles coverage holes it's a pretty important feature.

 

[soulsabr]

truthyboy15[/url]":285etlji]I wish someone would start a class action lawsuit against all these companies.

Those with standing are forced into binding arbitration and have also signed away their right to bring a class action suit. It sucks but that is why they did it.

 

[logic_88]

afidel[/url]":140mxsqn]

aexcorp[/url]":140mxsqn]

truthyboy15[/url]":140mxsqn]

flerchin[/url]":140mxsqn]Ummmm, if I buy a new phone and put my sim in it they charge me $20? (Well not me, because I'm a Tmobile prepaid customer)

Too bad T-mobile really limits the phones you can buy through their website if you're going the prepaid route.

Who cares?

Buy your own phone elsewhere, possibly at a significant discount from what T-Mobile would charge (assuming that phone is even offered in the first place).

Just check the LTE and HSPA bands to match T-Mobile's, and you're good.

Because UMA only works with branded devices and with T-Mobiles coverage holes it's a pretty important feature.

Don't iPhones offer TMobile WiFi calling?

Edit: And from what I understand, you can flash a TMobile ROM on your Nexus device to get WiFi calling.

Edit2: It appears that the Nexus 5X/6P also offers TMobile WiFi calling.

 

[afidel]

logic_88[/url]":5qbhnjrs]

afidel[/url]":5qbhnjrs]

aexcorp[/url]":5qbhnjrs]

truthyboy15[/url]":5qbhnjrs]

flerchin[/url]":5qbhnjrs]Ummmm, if I buy a new phone and put my sim in it they charge me $20? (Well not me, because I'm a Tmobile prepaid customer)

Too bad T-mobile really limits the phones you can buy through their website if you're going the prepaid route.

Who cares?

Buy your own phone elsewhere, possibly at a significant discount from what T-Mobile would charge (assuming that phone is even offered in the first place).

Just check the LTE and HSPA bands to match T-Mobile's, and you're good.

Because UMA only works with branded devices and with T-Mobiles coverage holes it's a pretty important feature.

Don't iPhones offer TMobile WiFi calling?

Edit: And from what I understand, you can flash a TMobile ROM on your Nexus device to get WiFi calling.

WiFi calling isn't the same as UMA though, there's no roaming between a WiFi call and a tower, it gets you about 80% of UMA but it's not a perfect substitute.

*edit*
If I didn't need the rural coverage it might be enough to get me back, data stash + binge on + WiFi calling is pretty nice.

 

[renteria]

AT&T's revenue-increasing shenanigans (ahem, pleasing investors) the last few years prompted me to dump them and switch to a different carrier.

 

[BloodNinja]

truthyboy15[/url]":32435h04]I wish someone would start a class action lawsuit against all these companies.

For what, though? Being a douche isn't illegal.

 

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

What exactly are they charging you for? The herculean labor of correlating a new IMEI with an existing IMSI in their database somewhere?

Aside from the fact that this is obviously a screwjob; perhaps the more important question is "What triggers the charge?" Is some sort of customer 'service' interaction required to tip them off? Have they actually configured their network so that any IMSI that shows up associated with a new IMEI is counted as an 'upgrade' and gets $20 added to the subscriber's account?

At least in the poxed hellscape of traditional, CDMA, Verizon 'n Sprint, the fact that you had to go grovel to them to get your account associated with a new handset(though this is less often architecturally necessary now as various confusing 4G convergences take over; it certainly used to be a major contrast to the 'just pull the SIM out and stick it in the other phone, does this confuse you?' tradition of GSM) provided a vaguely plausible 'service' for which they were charging; as well as giving you a pretty solid idea of what would trigger the charge. In GSM-and-successors land, IMSIs have been embedded in user-swappable SIMs since the days of the old gods, when the SIM wasn't a tiny little thing you punched out of the ISO-7816 card; it was the ISO-7816 card; because your handset was large enough that it fit just fine. Unless the 'upgrade' is linked to some carrier 'subsidy' or something, what service exactly are they charging for? Moving a subscriber between handsets has been automatic, standard, and so computationally inexpensive as to be effectively free since the days when GSM gear was using logic gates built out of mechanical relays to modulate the luminiferous aether.

 

[caspar347]

enoch861[/url]":2wi5vuuz]

caspar347[/url]":2wi5vuuz]Alright. So at this point we've got T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee, Sprint's $30 activation fee, and these two $20 fees on AT&T and Verizon. Better than Sprint's old $36 fee and the duopoly's $40 and $45 fees I guess.

T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee? T-Mobile doesn't have any upgrade fees. Franchise stores might charge you $20 bucks for a new SIM but Corporate store's hand those out for free. So no upgrade fees.

I've been repeatedly told SIMs are $15 regardless from T-Mo. YMMV I guess but AFAIK that's an official thing.

This page says $20 actually but I don't know if this is plan-specific: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/t-m ... r-kit.html

 

[afidel]

fuzzyfuzzyfungus[/url]":3uq8xovo]What exactly are they charging you for? The herculean labor of correlating a new IMEI with an existing IMSI in their database somewhere?

Aside from the fact that this is obviously a screwjob; perhaps the more important question is "What triggers the charge?" Is some sort of customer 'service' interaction required to tip them off? Have they actually configured their network so that any IMSI that shows up associated with a new IMEI is counted as an 'upgrade' and gets $20 added to the subscriber's account?

At least in the poxed hellscape of traditional, CDMA, Verizon 'n Sprint, the fact that you had to go grovel to them to get your account associated with a new handset(though this is less often architecturally necessary now as various confusing 4G convergences take over; it certainly used to be a major contrast to the 'just pull the SIM out and stick it in the other phone, does this confuse you?' tradition of GSM) provided a vaguely plausible 'service' for which they were charging; as well as giving you a pretty solid idea of what would trigger the charge. In GSM-and-successors land, IMSIs have been embedded in user-swappable SIMs since the days of the old gods, when the SIM wasn't a tiny little thing you punched out of the ISO-7816 card; it was the ISO-7816 card; because your handset was large enough that it fit just fine. Unless the 'upgrade' is linked to some carrier 'subsidy' or something, what service exactly are they charging for? Moving a subscriber between handsets has been automatic, standard, and so computationally inexpensive as to be effectively free since the days when GSM gear was using logic gates built out of mechanical relays to modulate the luminiferous aether.

I just had to comment, that last line is a thing of absolute techno-poetry, well written

 

[logic_88]

caspar347[/url]":14xyhoxb]

enoch861[/url]":14xyhoxb]

caspar347[/url]":14xyhoxb]Alright. So at this point we've got T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee, Sprint's $30 activation fee, and these two $20 fees on AT&T and Verizon. Better than Sprint's old $36 fee and the duopoly's $40 and $45 fees I guess.

T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee? T-Mobile doesn't have any upgrade fees. Franchise stores might charge you $20 bucks for a new SIM but Corporate store's hand those out for free. So no upgrade fees.

I've been repeatedly told SIMs are $15 regardless from T-Mo. YMMV I guess but AFAIK that's an official thing.

This page says $20 actually but I don't know if this is plan-specific: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/t-m ... r-kit.html

It's weird. TMobile like to price their SIM kits at $20 but they always have promos to bring the price down.

Last week the promo was for $0.99 and this week, it's $3.99. I've "purchased" a few SIMs when they were free.

 

[Sabrel]

qazwart[/url]":133hhy4p]

truthyboy15[/url]":133hhy4p]I wish someone would start a class action lawsuit against all these companies.

Read your contract with Verizon very, very carefully. See the part about binding arbitration?

Now, you know why these companies can get away with things like this...

The Federal Arbitration Act stands as one of the greater betrayals perpetuated on the American citizenry by their supposed representatives.

 

[xdre]

caspar347[/url]":1aktcuf3]

enoch861[/url]":1aktcuf3]

caspar347[/url]":1aktcuf3]Alright. So at this point we've got T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee, Sprint's $30 activation fee, and these two $20 fees on AT&T and Verizon. Better than Sprint's old $36 fee and the duopoly's $40 and $45 fees I guess.

T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee? T-Mobile doesn't have any upgrade fees. Franchise stores might charge you $20 bucks for a new SIM but Corporate store's hand those out for free. So no upgrade fees.

I've been repeatedly told SIMs are $15 regardless from T-Mo. YMMV I guess but AFAIK that's an official thing.

This page says $20 actually but I don't know if this is plan-specific: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/t-m ... r-kit.html

It varies between $15-$20 "officially", but even right now there's a free promo going on, and all T-Mo phones come with sims in the box, so...

 

[logic_88]

xdre[/url]":3myn4w67]

caspar347[/url]":3myn4w67]

enoch861[/url]":3myn4w67]

caspar347[/url]":3myn4w67]Alright. So at this point we've got T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee, Sprint's $30 activation fee, and these two $20 fees on AT&T and Verizon. Better than Sprint's old $36 fee and the duopoly's $40 and $45 fees I guess.

T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee? T-Mobile doesn't have any upgrade fees. Franchise stores might charge you $20 bucks for a new SIM but Corporate store's hand those out for free. So no upgrade fees.

I've been repeatedly told SIMs are $15 regardless from T-Mo. YMMV I guess but AFAIK that's an official thing.

This page says $20 actually but I don't know if this is plan-specific: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/t-m ... r-kit.html

It varies between $15-$20 "officially", but even right now there's a free promo going on, and all T-Mo phones come with sims in the box, so...

It's only free if you order a plan along with the SIM. This is for the postpaid SIM.

For prepaid SIMs, it's $3.99 this week. Last week it was $0.99.

 

[willdude]

From AT&T's web site:

Activation and upgrade fees for smartphones with AT&T Next® - Activation and upgrade fees are $20 per smartphone added or upgraded with AT&T Next.
Activation fees for installment agreements and bring your own devices - The fee is $20.
Activation and upgrade fees for two year agreement - Fees are $45. Note: Two year agreements are available only on select devices.

It doesn't say anything about an upgrade fee for byod, whereas it does for other plans -- only an activation fee. My takeaway is that if you buy an AT&T phone from Apple and activate it on a byod line, they'll charge you a fee, but if you buy a SIM-free phone and swap in an already-activated SIM, you'll be fine. (Which is how I thought it was with Verizon now too.)

 

[truthyboy15]

Coriolanus[/url]":25b43eo3]Wait, are they going to see that I popped the SIM into a different device and charge me that way? Because if I'm bringing my own device, I'm not going into their stores to have it "activated."

Verizon can see that the model changed for the phone you are using but they don't penalize you for it.

 

[boidsonly]

I'm on T-mo and just bought a new phone. I asked for a new SIM card rather than use my existing one. The T-Mo employee put a new SIM in and did not charge me.
BTW, they are running 2 lines with 6gb each for $80 if ATT has pushed your last button...

 

[truthyboy15]

renteria[/url]":3qkqny9o]AT&T's revenue-increasing shenanigans (ahem, pleasing investors) the last few years prompted me to dump them and switch to a different carrier.

Verizon is just the same. If you want to know true debauchery Sprint lets their customers sign up for Amazon Prime but they charge $10.99 a month.

 

[Firehawke]

And this is why I switched from AT&T to Google Fi. It's also why I'll probably never touch AT&T again.

 

[noanoxan]

Wow, what scumbags.


...but, they knew that already.

 

[icwhatudidthere]

caspar347[/url]":246bfof7]

enoch861[/url]":246bfof7]

caspar347[/url]":246bfof7]Alright. So at this point we've got T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee, Sprint's $30 activation fee, and these two $20 fees on AT&T and Verizon. Better than Sprint's old $36 fee and the duopoly's $40 and $45 fees I guess.

T-Mobile's $15 SIM fee? T-Mobile doesn't have any upgrade fees. Franchise stores might charge you $20 bucks for a new SIM but Corporate store's hand those out for free. So no upgrade fees.

I've been repeatedly told SIMs are $15 regardless from T-Mo. YMMV I guess but AFAIK that's an official thing.

This page says $20 actually but I don't know if this is plan-specific: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/t-m ... r-kit.html

Yeah, I've been charged $20 also (price went up recently) at corporate stores. It really depends on who you're talking to and how good their day is going. I added a line a month ago but didn't buy a new phone and they charged for the SIM, but when I got my LG G4 last year, they threw it in.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

theoilman[/url]":35ura5lq]When will people learn, just go prepaid.

I did. BYOD and ironically enough the towers I use belong to AT&T.

 

[RickyP784]

total.wimp[/url]":14gfi1hr]

flerchin[/url]":14gfi1hr]Ummmm, if I buy a new phone and put my sim in it they charge me $20? (Well not me, because I'm a Tmobile prepaid customer)

Yeah, I don't get it. I swap SIMs all the time. I do not call this "upgrading," I call it "using the service I paid for." Are they planning on detecting the change and putting a $20 charge on my bill?

When I purchased my OPO, AT&T was not involved in any part of the process. Pull SIM, put SIM. Done. I've moved that SIM back and forth between that, an HTC and an old iPhone several times.

I think it's more along the lines of charging BYOD customers switching to AT&T and porting their phone number from their old carrier. As for same-carrier device upgrades, that's pure walkin' around money for Randall Stephenson, because, as you said: pull SIM, put SIM. Even if they have to associate the device with your account, that's maybe 3 clicks and a barcode scan.

This whole "line activation fee" is why I'm going to a Verizon MVNO, and the upgrade fee (plus my work building being a massive dead zone in the middle of downtown Lexington, KY) is why I'm dumping AT&T. I may not get device tethering (technically, heh), but I'll get all the coverage without the ludicrous "because we feel like it" charges.

 

[Jason Honingford]

It's been awhile since I've used another wireless carrier, but there had always been some nonrefundable activation fee. Sometimes it was waived.

 

[icwhatudidthere]

RickyP784[/url]":2sp2aj2f]
As for same-carrier device upgrades, that's pure walkin' around money for Randall Stephenson, because, as you said: pull SIM, put SIM.

Basically, Stephenson just put out a tip jar on all of the store shelves.

 

[theoilman]

truthyboy15[/url]":37zhd1wa]

flerchin[/url]":37zhd1wa]Ummmm, if I buy a new phone and put my sim in it they charge me $20? (Well not me, because I'm a Tmobile prepaid customer)

Too bad T-mobile really limits the phones you can buy through their website if you're going the prepaid route.

Why on earth would you buy from the t-mobile website? Buying direct is one of the best benefits of going prepaid.

 

[NexusKoolaid]

@Jon - Careful reading of AT&T's wording on this issue seems to indicate your article's conclusions are incorrect.

AT&T will charge $20 for activation and upgrades of devices purchased on their Next program. For BYO devices it only mentions an Activation charge. An activation charge (as I understand it) involves activating the SIM and allowing it to communicate with their network. Taking the SIM out of a phone and moving it to a new phone would be upgrading, no? And AT&T's summary on the fee changes does not mention any upgrade fees associated with BYO phones.

Read it yourself:
https://www.att.com/esupport/article.ht ... /KM1008601

 

[Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer]

Ostracus[/url]":2goqbytv]

theoilman[/url]":2goqbytv]When will people learn, just go prepaid.

I did. BYOD and ironically enough the towers I use belong to AT&T.

I think the prepaid companies know what's up. I'd like to think that Cricket et al won't pull that $#!+ 'cause they know you'll go to Republic or whatever if they start screwing their customers over. When you're paying $35 a month, $20 on top of it is enough to make you start examining your options.

What I think is really going on is that the brand name companies--well, okay, mostly just AT&T and Verizon--know what's up, too. They're gonna ride this gravy train as far as they can, taking advantage of people who don't know about MVNOs and prepaid plans, or of the remarkable amount of inertia some people feel about changing their cellular provider.

They'll do what they can to promote the idea that prepaid plans are for people with bad credit who can't be trusted with postpaid contracts, and while the hoi polloi might flock to MVNOs, you, my good sir, are exactly the sort of fine, upstanding <cough>sucker<cough>flakey-most upper-crustian we want taking out two year obligations on stupidly overpriced phones that only exist because of an already-existing, obsolete business model.

 

[MoonUnit]

Anat0lian[/url]":2epvdj0d]This is why I am so happy that I am on Google Project Fi.

My only complaint, I can't exactly add multiple phone lines to one account, so I actually have two accounts since I picked up my wife's account on a different day.

How are you liking Project Fi so far? I switched last week and so far it seems to kick the snot out of my old provider (boost). The only thing I miss is the lack of the "the caller at <insert number here> is unavailable, please leave a message" on the voice mail.

Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer[/url]":2epvdj0d]
What I think is really going on is that the brand name companies--well, okay, mostly just AT&T and Verizon--know what's up, too. They're gonna ride this gravy train as far as they can, taking advantage of people who don't know about MVNOs and prepaid plans, or of the remarkable amount of inertia some people feel about changing their cellular provider.

God yes, it felt like a literal fight when I tried getting my mum to switch to a different carrier. She was with T-mobile paying 40 something a month for her Samsung flip phone that she's has since like 2005. She's now with Ting and should pay around 1/4 of what she was paying. Hopefully at least.

 

[NexusKoolaid]

flerchin[/url]":9325s4oq]Ummmm, if I buy a new phone and put my sim in it they charge me $20? (Well not me, because I'm a Tmobile prepaid customer)

No, that's not what AT&T's description of the changes says. Taking your sim from one phone and putting it in another BYO device would be an upgrade. AT&T's activation and upgrade help page only mentions an activation fee for BYO phones - no upgrade fee is mentioned.

https://www.att.com/esupport/article.ht ... /KM1008601

 

[Rosyna]

NexusKoolaid[/url]":34wwd8oo]@Jon - Careful reading of AT&T's wording on this issue seems to indicate your article's conclusions are incorrect.

AT&T will charge $20 for activation and upgrades of devices purchased on their Next program. For BYO devices it only mentions an Activation charge. An activation charge (as I understand it) involves activating the SIM and allowing it to communicate with their network. Taking the SIM out of a phone and moving it to a new phone would be upgrading, no? And AT&T's summary on the fee changes does not mention any upgrade fees associated with BYO phones.

Read it yourself:
https://www.att.com/esupport/article.ht ... /KM1008601

Upgrading a phone outside of AT&T would be a new BYOD. Therefore, AT&T charges you $20 when you put you already active SIM in another device (AT&T lists it as an activation charge for the phone "activation", not the SIM). It costs AT&T nothing and nothing has to be done on their side, but they still charge you $20 for the privilege to of not having to deal with their customer service…

 

[Rosyna]

NexusKoolaid[/url]":21i0hjmt]

flerchin[/url]":21i0hjmt]Ummmm, if I buy a new phone and put my sim in it they charge me $20? (Well not me, because I'm a Tmobile prepaid customer)

No, that's not what AT&T's description of the changes says. Taking your sim from one phone and putting it in another BYO device would be an upgrade. AT&T's activation and upgrade help page only mentions an activation fee for BYO phones - no upgrade fee is mentioned.

https://www.att.com/esupport/article.ht ... /KM1008601

It would be a new BYO device and therefore a new $20 charge…

 

[Rosyna]

Verizon's memo compared its own upgrade fees to those of other carriers, noting that T-Mobile doesn't charge a fee, while Sprint charges $30 and AT&T was charging $15.

But that's already outdated, as yesterday Droid-Life noticed that AT&T boosted its upgrade fee from $15 to $20. AT&T started charging the $15 fee in August of last year and has now raised it just eight months later.

I've always wondered why the DoJ hasn't looked into AT&T and Verizon for collusion. When one increases their prices, the other is quick to follow as their customers don't really have any other choice. It's always been like this.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Rosyna[/url]":4c04kauv]

Verizon's memo compared its own upgrade fees to those of other carriers, noting that T-Mobile doesn't charge a fee, while Sprint charges $30 and AT&T was charging $15.

But that's already outdated, as yesterday Droid-Life noticed that AT&T boosted its upgrade fee from $15 to $20. AT&T started charging the $15 fee in August of last year and has now raised it just eight months later.

I've always wondered why the DoJ hasn't looked into AT&T and Verizon for collusion. When one increases their prices, the other is quick to follow as their customers don't really have any other choice. It's always been like this.

It's not collusion. If one raises their prices, then they rather get the $$$ instead of compete on lower prices.

Same thing happens with Florida theme parks.

 

[Fatesrider]

While AT&T's webpage on the fees doesn't provide any justification, Verizon's memo said it is instituting the $20 charge "to cover our increasing support costs associated with customers switching their devices."

My response would be to tell them that if they're so inconvenienced by meeting their customers needs, I'll save them the trouble of adding me and not burden them with my business.

Jesus, can they get any more condescending without coming out and admitting, "Our customers are merely money bags we squeeze every nickle from and never want spend a cent in having to otherwise talk to them, so if they want to talk to us, we'll make them pay"?

SMH

I don't see this situation getting any better...