Assange’s lawyer: White House offered pardon if Russian hacks covered up

Thom Kidd

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This isn't normal.

... but on meth (or adderall) it is.

[first edit was to include the more likely drug involved]
[Second edit is to apologize for making the low hanging fruit joke, as this is the single most down-voted comment I've ever posted. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.]
 
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Fabermetrics

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I was reading this earlier.
Pardons are incredibly important for Governors and the POTUS to have in my opinion, but its hard to think of a system that avoids this type of abuse (other than an impeachment process that would hold them accountable, and perhaps undo a pardon that triggered it). Shame we have to design everything around the very worst actors.
 
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1Zach1

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giphy.gif
 
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ranthog

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I was reading this earlier.
Pardons are incredibly important for Governors and the POTUS to have in my opinion, but its hard to think of a system that avoids this type of abuse (other than an impeachment process that would hold them accountable, and perhaps undo a pardon that triggered it). Shame we have to design everything around the very worst actors.

The problem isn't the pardon system. The problem is that our system for holding the president accountable is completely broken at this point. If the pardon resulted in the president being removed it wouldn't be an issue.
 
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216 (223 / -7)

Khaaannn

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I was reading this earlier.
Pardons are incredibly important for Governors and the POTUS to have in my opinion, but its hard to think of a system that avoids this type of abuse (other than an impeachment process that would hold them accountable, and perhaps undo a pardon that triggered it). Shame we have to design everything around the very worst actors.

Pardons are specifically denied by the Constitution in cases of Impeachment.
Once Impeached, ALWAYS Impeached.
 
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Fatesrider

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A statement from one defense attorney, on behalf of another, is evidence?

IN COURT?!?!?

Assange's lawyer for his extradition hearings (Edward Fitzgerald) offered into evidence a statement from another Assange lawyer (Jennifer Robinson) which showed, Fitzgerald said, “Mr. Rohrabacher going to see Mr Assange and saying, on instructions from the president, he was offering a pardon or some other way out, if Mr Assange... said Russia had nothing to do with the DNC leaks."

Yes.

That will probably trigger a subpoena to have that lawyer testify, and offer whatever testimony she has about it.

These statements are sworn affidavits, which means those who make them can be charged with perjury if they're lying.

So, again, yes, it's evidence - as much as any eyewitness testimony offered in written form.
 
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snakys

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If this is true, then this is certainly another "high crime and misdemeanor" which is as disturbing as the abuses of power in Ukraine.

Didn't he declare that he was the "chief law enforcement officer"? I'm not American but the way things are going, the U.S. is quickly heading towards a being ruled by a lawless authoritarian just like Turkey, Venezuela or Russia.
 
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ranthog

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I was reading this earlier.
Pardons are incredibly important for Governors and the POTUS to have in my opinion, but its hard to think of a system that avoids this type of abuse (other than an impeachment process that would hold them accountable, and perhaps undo a pardon that triggered it). Shame we have to design everything around the very worst actors.

Pardons are specifically denied by the Constitution in cases of Impeachment.
Once Impeached, ALWAYS Impeached.

This is primarily because impeachment isn't a criminal act. Conviction after impeachment can be for abuses of power and doesn't require a specific criminal statue to be broken.
 
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37 (39 / -2)
It is long leap from Rohrabacher trying to make up some deal that neither side has agreed to, to a real offer from the White House. Offering a pardon doesn't even make sense, that would mean that Assange would have to come back, stand trial, be found guilty and be sentenced, then he could be pardoned. Assange has no intentions of voluntarily returning for trial. I'm just not believing this story.


Litmus test here. Do you think that Trump pressured Zelenskey to open an investigation into his political rival? If so do you think that was wrong?

If both of those are yes I don't know how you cannot wrap your head around this being their next move...
 
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Faceless Man

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It is long leap from Rohrabacher trying to make up some deal that neither side has agreed to, to a real offer from the White House. Offering a pardon doesn't even make sense, that would mean that Assange would have to come back, stand trial, be found guilty and be sentenced, then he could be pardoned. Assange has no intentions of voluntarily returning for trial. I'm just not believing this story.
I don't think that's true. Ford pardoned Nixon, who was never tried for his part in Watergate, if only because with the presidential pardon, there was no point.

I say send him back to Sweden, and sort out the sexual assault stuff. Regardless how I feel about Assange's motives for how he handled some of the releases, I don't think he should be prosecuted for them. I am more concerned about yet another privileged white guy possibly getting away with rape, though.
 
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27 (45 / -18)
It is long leap from Rohrabacher trying to make up some deal that neither side has agreed to, to a real offer from the White House. Offering a pardon doesn't even make sense, that would mean that Assange would have to come back, stand trial, be found guilty and be sentenced, then he could be pardoned. Assange has no intentions of voluntarily returning for trial. I'm just not believing this story.


Litmus test here. Do you think that Trump pressured Zelenskey to open an investigation into his political rival? If so do you think that was wrong?

If both of those are yes I don't know how you cannot wrap your head around this being their next move...
Not OP, but perhaps because it would have required going back in time, for one thing.


Go back in time?? How so?
 
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29 (31 / -2)
It is long leap from Rohrabacher trying to make up some deal that neither side has agreed to, to a real offer from the White House. Offering a pardon doesn't even make sense, that would mean that Assange would have to come back, stand trial, be found guilty and be sentenced, then he could be pardoned. Assange has no intentions of voluntarily returning for trial. I'm just not believing this story.

This is part of the game, ultimately.

Every single person involved in the sphere of hucksters is so compromised, so innately detestable as people that the administration can go "You can't believe *insert former stooge*, look at their history!"

So sure it doesn't make sense. None of this makes sense. And eventually people just become immune to it because it's the new normal.
 
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Statistical

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I was reading this earlier.
Pardons are incredibly important for Governors and the POTUS to have in my opinion, but its hard to think of a system that avoids this type of abuse (other than an impeachment process that would hold them accountable, and perhaps undo a pardon that triggered it). Shame we have to design everything around the very worst actors.

One way to somewhat limit abuse would be to limit pardons to crimes that happened PRIOR to the current President/Governor taking office. Abuses could still happen especially if you get multiple Republicans in a row but it would mitigate it. The downside it means people genuinely deserving a pardon may need to wait longer. Then again most people genuinely deserving a pardon DO wait a long period of time.
 
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ranthog

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If this is true, then this is certainly another "high crime and misdemeanor" which is as disturbing as the abuses of power in Ukraine.

Didn't he declare that he was the "chief law enforcement officer"? I'm not American but the way things are going, the U.S. is quickly heading towards a being ruled by a lawless authoritarian just like Turkey, Venezuela or Russia.
Not really.

For the moment democratic norms still strong in the US. It takes time to tear down those foundations. What Trump is doing right now is doing some damage to these norms, but he hasn't torn them down.

However, we are in a political crisis and failure to resolve political crises in the long run can lead to such negative outcomes. However, it won't happen today.
 
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