Apple has the lowest grades in laptop, phone repairability analysis

The MacBook Neo is a step in the right direction, though.

See full article...

 

[chris719]

This may be of questionable value. ThinkPads are more repairable than most when you compare like-for-like models.

 

[schnackenpfefferhausen]

Odd methodology.
iFixIt rates the newest thinkpad as 10/10.

 

[LordEOD]

I've worked on some absolute messes of design..

Where it would seem that 20 different people worked on the design, months apart with no communication with each other.
Cables crossing over an under other cables, batteries contorted around chassis elements and 4 different types and sizes of screws holding single assemblies.

Edit: spelling and removed Dell, HP and Samsung's names so they don't get mad at me

 

[UserIDAlreadyInUse]

That's a feature, not a bug. More revenue in new device sales and more impressive reports to shareholders on total devices sold if users are unable to repair their devices, after all.

 

[TheTamago]

Was a Lenovo shop now slowly phasing into HP. The only annoyance is the RAM upgradable feature that has become more of a Dodo bird extinction for enterprise fleet models. Only thing salvageable will be the nvme and nothing else. Everything is minimalized to reduce weight and increase space savings for portability. Requires a specialty shop with a microscope for soldering for the minuscule problems. Couple YT channels that feature their specialties on the mainboard itself with their microscopes and solder irons and heat guns.

 

[Hoptimist]

I'm glad that France makes this visible as part of the sales process - wish it was more widespread. That said, PIRG ought not the conflate actual device repairability with political opposition to repairability - just note it separately. Repairability is a subset of actual service life and cost of ownership. I would find it much more useful if PIRG published on that instead or in addition.

 

[StarAndCrescent]

As anon georgetown succinctly stated, Apple products have a high degree of reliability and general lifespan. My old iPhone 6S is still going strong for basic home use like music streaming, battery aside.

On the topic of battery, I personally would prefer it if battery were repairable/replaceable more than any other part. With select exceptions (ahem, my Switch JoyCon joysticks 3 or 4 times now), the battery is by far the most common thing I've needed to replace across devices.

 

[SavedByTechnology]

I’m curious why iPhones dropped all the way down from a B to a D- in a year. These results seem skewed. If anything, the 17 series are just as easy (or difficult) to repair than the 16 series, according to iFixit.

 

[silmaril]

I knew we were cooked when laptops started shipping with non-replaceable batteries.

 

[close]

gave more “weight to the physical ease of disassembling the product” because it believes that “is what consumers generally expect a ‘repair score’ to refer to.”

Fair enough. I wonder if any manufacturer will just find a way to use other means to limit the real repairability as needed. Any manufacturer... Whether it's some sort of complex pairing process that can't be done at home, or whitelisting of specific parts that are otherwise off the shelf, or burning fuses in off the shelf CPUs so they only work with a specific BIOS signature (manufacturer). Any manufacturers that are already named as worst offenders in this very article...

 

[Lorentz of Suburbia]

otoh - macs, iphones, ipads, rarely fail

.. and I came here to say, I haven’t ever had to repair an Apple product.

Also, I got 10 years out of my previous MacBook Pro. I do software development, and can afford a new Mac .. but I didn’t need to.

So if you keep something twice as long, getting same utility, I’d say it cost you half as much.

 

[johnsonwax]

So, this is category of statistical crimes that happens a lot in tech. 'Which product is most repairable' doesn't tell the consumer anything of value, because it doesn't tell us which is most likely to break in the first place - it just assumes they're all equally likely to break. And this is part of the job of actuaries who need to address warranty liability. Is it better to seal the laptop such that it's 3x harder to open if it makes it 3x less likely to need to be opened? From a cost standpoint those might balance out, but from a customer satisfaction standpoint - would you rather your device be easy to repair or not break in the first place? Almost every one would choose the latter.

I think a lot of the 'repairable' narrative is really a byproduct of 'how easy is it to upgrade', which is an entirely different animal. If a device has upgradable RAM, than making it easy to open and access components is the correct customer satisfaction outcome. But if it doesn't have any upgradable components, then making it so you never need to open and access components is the correct customer satisfaction outcome. Apple's design goal is to make products that are as close to an inert solid object as possible - as few mechanical connectors as possible, as few mechanical components as possible, devices that when dropped may fail due to material failure, but not due to mechanical failure. Your RAM will never come loose, your HD will never crash.

Apple hardware typically has a 3 year longer lifespan than Windows hardware based on industry surveys, which matches Apple's 'active device' vs sales reporting. You would think that Apple's terrible repairability scores would lead to the opposite outcome - that the device breaks, is too hard to repair and gets binned, and yet all studies I've ever seen suggest the opposite, that they last substantially longer (almost twice as long) despite that. So, what does the repairability score actually tell consumers? Does it tell us that the less repairable something is, the longer it's likely to last? Well, no. That's a trivial case to test. So what use is this information without the 'how likely to break' information?

And it also doesn't answer the question of 'what product will allow me, a hobbyist, to repair and maintain the longest', because it doesn't answer any of the questions of component availability, future software support and so on. It's closer to that, but it's still not that. My grandfather was a big Heathkit supporter. He assembled his color TV, and he had the schematics and a catalogue where he could order replacement components if they failed. That was serviceable. Will ASUS ship you a new DSL6540 if your thunderbolt controller fails? Will Intel continue to produce it? Is there a large enough market for that for someone like Mouser to keep in inventory (they don't btw).

 

[Brendan McKinley]

From a purely, random consumer who is trying to make a purchasing decision perspective, those have to be some of the most useless infographics I've seen in a long time. They exist not to help anyone, but as merely something to be pointed at.

 

[jaqrah]

otoh - macs, iphones, ipads, rarely fail

Every single ipad my family has had the battery has failed. Currently it costs $199.00 to replace the battery for an ipad which had cost $399.00 new.

The replacement cost of a battery should not be 50% of its purchase price.

 

[itfa]

Not surprised to see Asus on top there. I just had to open up an asus zephyrus g14 (my fault completely) to replace the keyboard. It was shockingly easy. Pop up a little youtube video, and 5 minutes later I'm sitting there wondering what I screwed up because it was done so fast.

 

[itfa]

Every single ipad my family has had the battery has failed. Currently it costs $199.00 to replace the battery for an ipad which had cost $399.00 new.

The replacement cost of a battery should not be 50% of its purchase price.

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the share holders!!!!!!!!!!

That being said, I think everybody is guilty of gluing their batteries in and making it a giant pain to replace them these days.

 

[aleph_nought]

This may be of questionable value. ThinkPads are more repairable than most when you compare like-for-like models.

This article really makes no sense. You can easily find repair manuals and order official components on Lenovo's website. ThinkPads are about the most repairable laptops out there, as far as system-on-chip designs are concerned.

 

[barich]

Lenovo's consumer grade products must be especially terrible for them to average out that badly, considering that ThinkPads are generally more repairable than anything other than a Framework.

 

[itfa]

As anon georgetown succinctly stated, Apple products have a high degree of reliability and general lifespan. My old iPhone 6S is still going strong for basic home use like music streaming, battery aside.

On the topic of battery, I personally would prefer it if battery were repairable/replaceable more than any other part. With select exceptions (ahem, my Switch JoyCon joysticks 3 or 4 times now), the battery is by far the most common thing I've needed to replace across devices.

Yeah, these days it seems like phones (not just apple mind you) have incredible longevity. Except for the battery. Every phone I have had since 2009 is sitting in my little tech junk closet and each and every one of them still work. A little thoughtful design to minimize the likelihood of screens breaking, and an easy to replace battery and I don't see any reason why the vast majority of phones being sold today wouldn't still be just fine in 8 years.

 

[Marlor_AU]

I've always bought Thinkpads for my PC laptops. I never did too much in-depth investigation into repairability, simply assuming they would be fine.

This has panned out pretty well in general - with the exception of the Thinkpad X1 Yoga. I bought a second generation variant which was a generally nice unit, but a few years back a single key on the keyboard failed. I struggled to find a replacement keyboard, and when I did, the process to replace it was an absolute ordeal. Check out Step 30 - so many 2mm screws.

Even worse, there is plenty of slop in reassembly, and if any part is out by even a fraction of a millimetre, the keyboard will stay partially retracted after the lid is opened. I managed to get things aligned on the third attempt, but by then I'd spent an entire weekend on the project and I was seeing it through out of sheer stubborn pig-headedness rather than any sense that it was a sensible use of time.

On the other hand, non-Yoga Thinkpads, particularly the T-Series, have generally been a joy to work with (and I've repaired plenty both personally and professionally).

There was a time when brand was a very strong indicator of repairability. These days, with so much variation between models in an individual brand's line-up, the correlation is more tenuous. But generally, the more "boring" the laptop, the better the repairability. Next time, I'll skip the exotic features and just get a T-Series.

 

[johnsonwax]

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the share holders!!!!!!!!!!

That being said, I think everybody is guilty of gluing their batteries in and making it a giant pain to replace them these days.

That's a different metric. If it costs a million dollars to get a replacement battery, but you can easily pop the old one out and new one in, you'll have an A+ repairability score. If the battery costs $5 but you need a spudger and a special driver bit to open it, you get a C-. This is why this is useless information.

And the assertion that it's absurd that a replacement battery cost half the cost of the device is a bit odd when the product is literally more than 50% battery. It's basically a battery with a minuscule logic board and a screen, and not a terribly good screen at that on the $399 one - but pretty much the same battery as on the $800 one. The battery in your EV can cost pretty close to half what the car does as well.

 

[LordByronII]

Wow, lots of thoughts on this one. I agree Apple sucks; I've had two MacBook Pro's and soldered RAM, storage, a basically unreplaceable battery, and an actually unreplaceable keyboard (not without replacing the entire top deck) has cemented them into the F category in my brain.

Lenovo on the other hand has been great. I only buy the P series ThinkPads and I'm on my third and they've been great. Detailed PDF manuals for the teardown instructions. Easy to swap RAM and SSDs. I've done three battery replacements and a keyboard replacement. Their online store offers parts at reasonable prices, including batteries, keyboards, and even the rubber toppers for the trackpoint. They are a solid A in my experience.

Too bad Framework wasn't included. My wife has one of those and they earn the S grade.

 

[InvariantCapitalist]

I knew we were cooked when laptops started shipping with non-replaceable batteries.

I was amazed and pleased. I was flying with a Dell laptop and always having to remember to charge a replacement battery to swap to make it the entire flight, except that I frequently forgot.

Then Apple was able to offer increased battery life within the same packaging size by going non-replacable, so I switching to a MacBook Pro and never failed to make the entire flight. Was awesome.

 

[InvariantCapitalist]

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the share holders!!!!!!!!!!

That being said, I think everybody is guilty of gluing their batteries in and making it a giant pain to replace them these days.

Its consumer choice. If you have a strong need for a replacable battery, there are options out there. But for the thinnest devices with the longest battery life, you want to go to glue and non-replacable.

I've had about a half dozen MacBooks since I switched to it from Dell, and despite repeatedly dropping them and accidently slamming them into things the only time I had any problem was a 2013 that after 6 years its battery started to swell, causing the keyboard to have problems. Took it into Apple store and they replaced it for only a couple hundred bucks. My daughter still uses it today.

 

[cameron2]

While Apple products are not designed to be repairable by non-Apple employees, the good news is that they require far fewer repairs than any other computer brand I've ever used. My previous notebook lasted 9 years, and would have lasted longer if I didn't use a power supply that I repaired myself (I must have gotten some wires crossed when I was soldering). My current workstation is a 13 year old Mac Pro. My current notebook is a 5 year old MacBook Pro, and generally runs as good as new.

So while I'd like them to be more repairable, without relying on Apple, I do have to acknowledge their craftsmanship.

 

[pseudobscura]

This may be of questionable value. ThinkPads are more repairable than most when you compare like-for-like models.

I know, right? My new E14 G7 comes with detailed user-facing PDF instructions to replace the:

• RAM (2x SODIMMs)
• M.2 SSDs (2x NVMe)
• Battery
• Wireless LAN card
• Fan and thermal assembly
• I/O boards and ports
• Power button
• Speakers
• Trackpad
• Keyboard
• Screen and assembly
• Camera
• Microphone
• Antennas
• System board

The instructions are detailed, to the point of how much to tighten assembly screws. All of these components are available as spare parts.

I'm left wondering, what else do you need instructions on at this point to score an A? How to melt down bare metal to reforge the chassis? How to build your own chip fab plant?

Also, like others have already noted, any review of laptop repairability that doesn't include Framework is basically unfit for purpose.

 

[killerhurtalot]

As anon georgetown succinctly stated, Apple products have a high degree of reliability and general lifespan. My old iPhone 6S is still going strong for basic home use like music streaming, battery aside.

On the topic of battery, I personally would prefer it if battery were repairable/replaceable more than any other part. With select exceptions (ahem, my Switch JoyCon joysticks 3 or 4 times now), the battery is by far the most common thing I've needed to replace across devices.

Electronics with no moving or serviceable parts are just reliable full stop... I'm still using my old s7 edge for home control/music and etc... I even have a old galaxy s that still "works" despite not much software support and not much runs on 512 mb ram and on outdated browsers anymore... I still use it as a "back up" phone in case my newer back up phones die... and I can still get batteries for it (of questionable quality)

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Thinkpads are highly repairable, and Apple makes up for the lack of repair-ability based on the fact that they will outlast almost any other laptop.

 

[whobeme]

I knew we were cooked when laptops started shipping with non-replaceable batteries.

Even the laptops that still have replaceable batteries have issues. The manufacturers only make compatible batteries for a few years. After that you either get some stale unit off the shelf or you buy a "who made this?" from Amazon or Ebay. Sometimes both. When the internal battery failed on my T470 the first battery from Lenovo's designated supplier (some sort of warehouse, best I could tell) arrived visibly swollen and had been assembled years before. Returned that (without plugging it in, of course) and bought a no name one. Which didn't quite fit, slightly too thick. It's ludicrous. Imagine a situation where no 12V battery from a reputable manufacturer could be found for a 5 year old car. It doesn't happen for cars (well, not mass production ones) but it is standard practice for laptops. (Admittedly, replacement battery packs for EVs are closer to the laptop model. The Leaf is a case in point, first generation ones are everywhere and dirt cheap - because they have badly deteriorated packs, and no sanely priced replacement packs are available.)

 

[SraCet]

I knew we were cooked when laptops started shipping with non-replaceable batteries.

Uhh, what laptop doesn't have a replaceable battery?

 

[daedalus169]

As anon georgetown succinctly stated, Apple products have a high degree of reliability and general lifespan. My old iPhone 6S is still going strong for basic home use like music streaming, battery aside.

On the topic of battery, I personally would prefer it if battery were repairable/replaceable more than any other part. With select exceptions (ahem, my Switch JoyCon joysticks 3 or 4 times now), the battery is by far the most common thing I've needed to replace across devices.

In addition to general reliability of most smartphones, there are tons of indie repair shops that will replace a phone or laptop battery for not much money — and these days even the cheapest batteries you get from these shops are pretty good. I do not miss the days of buying swappable iBook batteries that would become nearly useless within two years. We really should be comparing common electronics to automobiles and looking at how easy/affordable it is to get something repaired.

 

[Anton Longshot]

Amusingly my T431 Thinkpad is lying open on my kitchen table right now.
It's not broken though: I'm replacing the SSD and need to ground one of the BIOS pins during boot to gain BIOS access so I can unlock the touchpad. The former owner's a bank and they locked everything down BIOS included.
None of this is problematic, I'll probably need an hour or so to do all that and piece it back together once this becomes priority #1.
I like this machine: it's very nicely put together and has always worked well without issues in spite of its age.

 

[Dano40]

Every single ipad my family has had the battery has failed. Currently it costs $199.00 to replace the battery for an ipad which had cost $399.00 new.

The replacement cost of a battery should not be 50% of its purchase price.

Every iPad, my family has had and every iPhone over 16 years hasn’t had any problem with the battery or anything else for that matter and last but not least the resale value is also pretty high in comparison to the lackluster competition….

 

[BobbyBobberson]

I'll take reliability over repairability.

 

[anon georgetown]

So, this is category of statistical crimes that happens a lot in tech. 'Which product is most repairable' doesn't tell the consumer anything of value, because it doesn't tell us which is most likely to break in the first place - it just assumes they're all equally likely to break. And this is part of the job of actuaries who need to address warranty liability. Is it better to seal the laptop such that it's 3x harder to open if it makes it 3x less likely to need to be opened? From a cost standpoint those might balance out, but from a customer satisfaction standpoint - would you rather your device be easy to repair or not break in the first place? Almost every one would choose the latter.

I think a lot of the 'repairable' narrative is really a byproduct of 'how easy is it to upgrade', which is an entirely different animal. If a device has upgradable RAM, than making it easy to open and access components is the correct customer satisfaction outcome. But if it doesn't have any upgradable components, then making it so you never need to open and access components is the correct customer satisfaction outcome. Apple's design goal is to make products that are as close to an inert solid object as possible - as few mechanical connectors as possible, as few mechanical components as possible, devices that when dropped may fail due to material failure, but not due to mechanical failure. Your RAM will never come loose, your HD will never crash.

Apple hardware typically has a 3 year longer lifespan than Windows hardware based on industry surveys, which matches Apple's 'active device' vs sales reporting. You would think that Apple's terrible repairability scores would lead to the opposite outcome - that the device breaks, is too hard to repair and gets binned, and yet all studies I've ever seen suggest the opposite, that they last substantially longer (almost twice as long) despite that. So, what does the repairability score actually tell consumers? Does it tell us that the less repairable something is, the longer it's likely to last? Well, no. That's a trivial case to test. So what use is this information without the 'how likely to break' information?

And it also doesn't answer the question of 'what product will allow me, a hobbyist, to repair and maintain the longest', because it doesn't answer any of the questions of component availability, future software support and so on. It's closer to that, but it's still not that. My grandfather was a big Heathkit supporter. He assembled his color TV, and he had the schematics and a catalogue where he could order replacement components if they failed. That was serviceable. Will ASUS ship you a new DSL6540 if your thunderbolt controller fails? Will Intel continue to produce it? Is there a large enough market for that for someone like Mouser to keep in inventory (they don't btw).

I have a framework built from a kit and easy-ish to repair and has not failed in 3 years now. I have a mac m2 air book that likely is hard to repair, but has no moving parts and likely won't ever need to be repaired in any case. I have a mac that is over ten years old and still going strong. I've had at least 5 pc's that failed in one way or another. yammv.

 

[anon georgetown]

I know, right? My new E14 G7 comes with detailed user-facing PDF instructions to replace the:

• RAM (2x SODIMMs)
• M.2 SSDs (2x NVMe)
• Battery
• Wireless LAN card
• Fan and thermal assembly
• I/O boards and ports
• Power button
• Speakers
• Trackpad
• Keyboard
• Screen and assembly
• Camera
• Microphone
• Antennas
• System board

The instructions are detailed, to the point of how much to tighten assembly screws. All of these components are available as spare parts.

I'm left wondering, what else do you need instructions on at this point to score an A? How to melt down bare metal to reforge the chassis? How to build your own chip fab plant?

Also, like others have already noted, any review of laptop repairability that doesn't include Framework is basically unfit for purpose.

Canon copiers ate Xerox's lunch because although the Xerox was highly repairable, the Canon never broke in the first place.

 

[sam_I_am_not]

How is it Framework, know for their repairtability and user upgrade-ability not on there ? Then we have Tuxedo not on there wither ? wtf sort of list is this ? those where the two I had been considering.

Others mention how they haven't had to repair their Apple products and yet I have never had to repair a Samsung, Dell, HP, Lenovo or MS Surface, I'm not sure I'd use that data point to form a "reliability" index though. The only HW issue Ive ever had in 40 years from my C64 on until now (Minisforum HX 90 and MS Surface both running LMDE as the os ) is a Dell 30" monitor crap itself 10 years ago, one month outside the three year warranty and Dell replaced it. I gifted it to a young guy who is still using it last time i taked to him.