Will this be the one smart home standard to rule them all or just another entry?
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Apple, Google, and Amazon team up for joint smart home standard
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One trick I also like to use, above and beyond putting IoT devices on a separate 'untrusted' network, firewalled away from my main machines, is to assign static IPs, and then not give them default gateways.
(edit: without a default gateway, a device can talk on the local net, but it can't get to the broader internet. Firewalling it is better, but this is a trivial thing that will keep most devices off the main 'Net.)
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Oh, and in reference to folks musing about devices using other WiFis and mesh networks to get out to the Net, even against the owner's will: those are all definitely achievable, but there's maybe an easier way.
All they have to do, after all, is stick a cellular data chip in a device, and it's online whether you like it or not.
All they have to do, after all, is stick a cellular data chip in a device, and it's online whether you like it or not.
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Very true. CPAP machines, for instance, often do this very thing, reporting back to the mother ship to assure the insurance company the device is being used whether the consumer knows it or not. Low-performance 4G chipsets - all that's needed for low-volume data transfer - are really cheap.
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But will it mandate IPv6 support in all compliant devices? None of my IP based "things" right now will acquire anything other than IPv4.
Edit: question answered in the article's update. Very nice. Did not expect it to be IPv6 only, but
for kicking cruft to the curb.
Edit: question answered in the article's update. Very nice. Did not expect it to be IPv6 only, but
for kicking cruft to the curb.
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I looked into home automation with things like Phillips bulbs and all. But I am not into crazy colors anyway, and I am not enamored enough with my iPhone (or any phone) to make it the center of my life to control it.
However, I do not need a washer to announce to my phone that it is done--it has a buzzer that screams to tell me that. Same with the dryer. Both will buzz for at least 3 minutes saying "We are done damn it." If I needed to know that when I am elsewhere in the house, I can get a cheap baby monitor and I would know 20 miles away!
My oven is now beeping loudly that it has reached the 500F I set it at, and when I am done with this post, my made-from-scratch pizza will go in it. Sure I had to get off the couch to set it, but that means I got in another 15 steps for the day, and I had to get up to start making the pizza dough anyway.
Frankly the only thing about home automaton that is remotely interesting I already had---my car has a button to push to open the garage door. But that is not much different than the old Genie remote my grandparents had.
My issue is I want my home automation to function when my internet goes down. none of the current smart devices can function without internet access. I do have a small pile of wireless remotes for secondary light switches but they use regular 900mhz waves and have short range and are primarily used to control christmas lights.
if I could find a local only app that did wifi light control I might switch to that. but those don't exist unless you roll your own
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It would be nice to get to a non-sandboxed smart home future. Personally I am not interested in adopting until I can do all my smart home functions totally offline (including voice assistant) and have even that end to end encrypted (because inevitably something will have access to the internet, even if it's firewalled). That said, if they manage to get this in place I can see a lot more people jumping into the smart home space and doing so with more devices. I might be an edge case, but I know a lot of my friends are frustrated with the sandboxing and would make moves if that weren't the case.
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You're serious right? Cause that's a best case scenario in my mind.
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I'm not denying smart devices controllable by voice or remote access are great for the disabled, but that's a niche market.
What irks me (and a lot of others on this thread, it seems), is smart devices being pushed as the "next great thing" for the average consumer.
For me, the added costs, setup/maintenance/adjustment time, points of failure, privacy problems, and resource usage of smart devices normally do not outweigh the added features.
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If you are going to post a webcomic, have the decency to include attribution to the creator.
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Would they be segregated to a different network?
I'm not convinced whatever gateway device wouldn't just be a dumb router happily passing along all the attacks.
I'd want to see it capable of functioning without an Internet connection. Need to have a regularly updated, security hardened bastion type device that can broker all the Internet stuff and then be the intermediary to issue correctly validated commands to the devices
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What I want in a smart home system:
1. Ability to run it offline. I want to install a controller in a rack in the basement, or run a control service on a NAS, and have that do the processing.
2. Ability to run it online. I want to be able to communicate with the controller directly (not over Google/Amazon/whoever's servers) and do things like set my alarms, check cameras, adjust the thermostat, turn on lights, etc.
3. Ability to integrate portions of the system using IFTTT or similar. If my glass break or door sensor trips, turn on all the lights and exterior cameras, for example.
4. Ability to segregate portions of the system from one another. Zero need for my smart fridge to communicate with my smart thermometer, and zero need for either to communicate with cameras.
5. Ability to view, edit, and delete any and all data captured by this system.
6. Requirement to store all said data locally on premise, rather than in the cloud, to avoid third party doctrine.
Unfortunately, I don't expect this is likely to happen unless I build it myself from scratch.
1. Ability to run it offline. I want to install a controller in a rack in the basement, or run a control service on a NAS, and have that do the processing.
2. Ability to run it online. I want to be able to communicate with the controller directly (not over Google/Amazon/whoever's servers) and do things like set my alarms, check cameras, adjust the thermostat, turn on lights, etc.
3. Ability to integrate portions of the system using IFTTT or similar. If my glass break or door sensor trips, turn on all the lights and exterior cameras, for example.
4. Ability to segregate portions of the system from one another. Zero need for my smart fridge to communicate with my smart thermometer, and zero need for either to communicate with cameras.
5. Ability to view, edit, and delete any and all data captured by this system.
6. Requirement to store all said data locally on premise, rather than in the cloud, to avoid third party doctrine.
Unfortunately, I don't expect this is likely to happen unless I build it myself from scratch.
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Actually, looking at this, Insteon seems to almost perfectly fit what I want in home automation, I just need a separate security solution.
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And can you imagine the cookie consent options, and of course, the T & Cs and "privacy" statement?!
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Right now there are many standards for talking to devices 433MHz, WiFi, ZigBee.
Common for the tinker / hacker community is, that we all use MQTT as the hub. I hope the standard will embrace MQTT, and gateways.
Today I can buy a Zigbee USB stick for $8, and run Zigbee2MQTT, I can run Tasmota on all my Sonoff WiFi devices, and Tasmota on my 433MHz bridge. So we are almost there today. May it is this threat from Open Source solutions that is considere so dangerous that a new standard must be made ?
For the user facing end, we have OpenHAB and HomeAssistant as the main contestants. HomeAssistant supposedly HomeKit ready.
The big problem is configuring things, and for the users to put together both a useable interface, and linking stuff. And of course support for multiple users. And we need light sensors, that can help determine if we should turn on the light.
Then we need something smart for appliances. Electricity price changes hourly. So the washing machine should be able to use that information. Same for the dryer. But this is user interface for now. In the long run, it might be able to select different programs depending on electricity cost, or changemid program if electricity prices change.
Common for the tinker / hacker community is, that we all use MQTT as the hub. I hope the standard will embrace MQTT, and gateways.
Today I can buy a Zigbee USB stick for $8, and run Zigbee2MQTT, I can run Tasmota on all my Sonoff WiFi devices, and Tasmota on my 433MHz bridge. So we are almost there today. May it is this threat from Open Source solutions that is considere so dangerous that a new standard must be made ?
For the user facing end, we have OpenHAB and HomeAssistant as the main contestants. HomeAssistant supposedly HomeKit ready.
The big problem is configuring things, and for the users to put together both a useable interface, and linking stuff. And of course support for multiple users. And we need light sensors, that can help determine if we should turn on the light.
Then we need something smart for appliances. Electricity price changes hourly. So the washing machine should be able to use that information. Same for the dryer. But this is user interface for now. In the long run, it might be able to select different programs depending on electricity cost, or changemid program if electricity prices change.
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Right, the usual suspects are standardizing MassSurveillanceWare (MSW). I find it mind boggling people are PAYING to sign up to feed the beast.
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My mixed Insteon/Z-wave system seems to meet all of your criteria. The controller is software called Indigo that runs on a Mac. However there are several Windows packages around like HomeSeer. Indigo has both 1st and 3rd party plug-ins as well as an API to expand functionality. You can also script functionality and behaviors using Python.
Their are two downsides with Insteon.
1) It runs on a mix of power line and radio. A noisy power line can interfere with communication making it less reliable.
2) A large number of devices (I started having problems in the 30s) start to have communications collisions that also affect reliability
I'm transitioning parts of my system over to Z-wave because it a) doesn't use power line at all b) better devices support encryption.
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Odd that Microsoft isn’t in there. Their voice assistant won’t be included? Have they given up on this altogether?
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The hype for Smart Washers came out of the American Recovery & Reinvestment Act $4.5B spending for Smart Grid. One expectation of these Smart Grid upgrades was that we were going to have nearly universal Time of Use Tariff/Real Time/Demand Response pricing, in place to support a huge percentage of generation coming from renewables and supporting a high percentage of households charging PEVs without blowing the neighborhood transformers. But outside of some niche areas, electricity in the US is just really too cheap to bother. I'm not going to postpone laundry until 2AM to save 2 cents/kWh, even if my washer will automatically start when the cheaper tariff begins, even though I wrote the damn code for the meter and the utility back office system that provides all that information into the smart home...
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(probably) irrelevant xkcd
Well, as long as it works without internet connection just like zigbee or z-wave, I'm all for it.
Well, as long as it works without internet connection just like zigbee or z-wave, I'm all for it.
Oh well, that's too bad. Another time, maybe?
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BevansDesign
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Everybody loves to post that XKCD comic whenever something like this is tried. It's like they're saying "Ha, it's so futile. Don't even try to improve anything, losers!" (And I'm sure Munroe never intended to say that with the comic.)
But this has the biggest names in smarthome tech on board, and if this really happens, there's no way that this would just be another "standard" for the pile. This would be THE standard, period. This would be akin to the adoption of standard-gauge railways: everyone gets to use the same "tracks" to travel down, and everyone benefits.
But this has the biggest names in smarthome tech on board, and if this really happens, there's no way that this would just be another "standard" for the pile. This would be THE standard, period. This would be akin to the adoption of standard-gauge railways: everyone gets to use the same "tracks" to travel down, and everyone benefits.
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OrangeCream
Ars Legatus Legionis
Sure, just like my example where I use the phrase ‘Goodnight’ to Siri to kick off a sequence of actions.
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From what I've seen, often you briefly have unity and then suddenly one of them decides "we'll support the standard but also add our own thing with <random extra feature> that isn't compatible"
And the process starts over.
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My family mostly uses these device for security.
Through SmartThings integrated into Alexa:
* Alexa audibly tells me if someone opens my garage. It also tells me if my garage is open at a set interval after 9:30 PM (any only in the rooms were no kids are sleeping). Alexa/SmartThings cannot open my garage. Previously I'd walk out every few months to see the kids left it open overnight.
* Alexa locks my front door at 9:30 each night if it's unlocked. I can check if my door is unlocked when away, and lock it remotely. Alexa/SmartThings cannot unlock my door. Previously I'd wake up in the morning periodically to see that the kids or I left it unlocked.
* Alexa tells me, and I get a notification on my phone, if my basement fire escape window is opened. I don't want anyone sneaking out (or in) this window).
* Alexa tells me if someone leaves the basement fridge open. Previously happened too often costing me all the food in the freezer.
*Alexa tells me, and I get a notification on my phone, if there is water in the basement or on the floor next to my clothes washer (above a finished basement). While neither has happened, the impact from it happening is huge. I test this capability at least once a year with a cup of water.
All these smart home features improve the security of my home and life. Cybersecurity is about managing risk through consideration of likelihood and impact. For the casual naysayers, please cite news articles where these devices have caused actual damage or enabled an attacker to cause harm in a way that isn't significantly easier in a traditional way.
Through SmartThings integrated into Alexa:
* Alexa audibly tells me if someone opens my garage. It also tells me if my garage is open at a set interval after 9:30 PM (any only in the rooms were no kids are sleeping). Alexa/SmartThings cannot open my garage. Previously I'd walk out every few months to see the kids left it open overnight.
* Alexa locks my front door at 9:30 each night if it's unlocked. I can check if my door is unlocked when away, and lock it remotely. Alexa/SmartThings cannot unlock my door. Previously I'd wake up in the morning periodically to see that the kids or I left it unlocked.
* Alexa tells me, and I get a notification on my phone, if my basement fire escape window is opened. I don't want anyone sneaking out (or in) this window).
* Alexa tells me if someone leaves the basement fridge open. Previously happened too often costing me all the food in the freezer.
*Alexa tells me, and I get a notification on my phone, if there is water in the basement or on the floor next to my clothes washer (above a finished basement). While neither has happened, the impact from it happening is huge. I test this capability at least once a year with a cup of water.
All these smart home features improve the security of my home and life. Cybersecurity is about managing risk through consideration of likelihood and impact. For the casual naysayers, please cite news articles where these devices have caused actual damage or enabled an attacker to cause harm in a way that isn't significantly easier in a traditional way.
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I have been skeptical of food delivery service and all this smart home stuff in the past. But then my mother had pretty bad dementia, chronic TIAs, reduced mobility. Cameras allowed me to keep an eye on her to know if she had fallen or doing something dangerous, smart deadbolt let me set personalized passwords for home health aides, and home delivery meant the large amount of supplies she needed but couldn't get herself was available without me doing even more shopping trips every week.
Throw in a google hub, and you can call up a camera feed, add to shopping list, order things, etc hands free while doing dishes. Throw in a smartphone and you can monitor comings and goings and get alerts that your elderly parent is wandering.
It's not for everyone, but having this stuff in certain situations is just a total lifesaver. Once I caught my mom swinging at a glass door with a broom, able to talk to her through a speaker in the camera to tell her to stop, and get an alert when she started it back up again. My brother was able to unlock the deadbolt to come get her to stop, thanks to the personal code I had set up for him. All from my in-laws house. If it wasn't for all this tech, I wouldn't have been able to leave the house for 2 years without paying for a costly aid every time.
Since she went into a home, I admit, I don't really use any of these things anymore, except for the hub to watch tv while I do dishes and cook.
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These 4 probably make up 75% or more of the smart home market. Sounds like a standard that has a very good chance of fixing some of the issues, while making sure that all smart homes phone home enough for them to make money hand over fist together.
I wonder what this will mean for my Ecobee4, and smart bulbs that don't support Zig...
I wonder what this will mean for my Ecobee4, and smart bulbs that don't support Zig...
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Neither Apple nor Google is a big name in smarthome tech. They are big names in tech that have dabbled, poorly, in smarthome tech. They have not been able to translate their overall influence into home automation. Google in particular is just thrashing around killing its own products, as usual.
Of the long established smarthome protocols, there is Zigbee, Z-wave, UPB, and Insteon. Only one of those four is onboard. Getting Zigbee into the standard looks like an aggressive move to push out its competitors, not an attempt to work with them.
Of the new wave of smarthome devices, the most successful has been Philips Hue. Also not onboard.
I definitely see some advantages to interoperability and standardization here, but the effort isn't broad enough and isn't bringing in the companies that are actually important.
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To be honest, I was with Six about the washer and dryer (w/d), until you mentioned your points. I fully agree with lighting, but did really didn't dawn on me about the w/d. I can't count how many times I've started one or both of the machines and then started some other thing, just to forget about the w/d.
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If your switch / router still has an IP address on that segment which can route, I would not trust IoT devices couldn't scan for a gateway against the subnet.
I could also see ISPs expanding IPv6 use and modem / router configs in ways that quietly give IoT full reachability from outside without the default layer of security provided by NAT/SPI. Already plenty of IoT uses UPnP to open ports for forwarding and increased attack surface.
Heck my apartment wanted to install smart locks, thermostats, and several other bits, and the IoT hub was the first time I have heard of something with 4G backup and Z-wave in the same box. No normal consumer marketed IoT hub has 4G backup -- only these devices being sold to large property management companies (sketchy as hell).
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Luckily, really luckily, they are not the sole developer this time. Nor are they likely to acquire and rapidly kill the other parties involved.
We may be safe.
This time.
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Willing to bet 90% of all home automation is interfaced through an Apple or Google product. Apple was 0% of the payment market until they weren't. Nobody in the US at least could solve that space without Apple because the iPhone was the only viable interface for achieving payment ubiquity in the US. Apple was always going to be the party that chose the winning solution because system level integration was critical. Same will go for home automation.
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I'm sure your 90% is true *if* you count systems where the only Apple or Google product is a phone running their OS. But that's a sucker's bet when 99% of phones are iOS or Android. I would not characterize Apple or Google's contribution to, say, a Hue system as meaningful just because the app runs on their OS.
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I just want this stuff to work locally and not require a trip to the cloud to turn my lights off. Last night the Samsung smartthings service stopped working. I couldn't turn any of my lights off using the smartthings app on my phone because apparently my phone has to connect to the cloud to send commands to the hub that's sitting on the same wifi network. Neat.
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OrangeCream
Ars Legatus Legionis
Right, the problem exists when you try/need/want to mix and match equipment from different vendors on the same standard.
I'm using WeMo smartplugs and it can be controlled via the WeMo app or the Home app, and they explicitly say that interactions between the two can cause problems. I can imagine it gets worse if you have a different vendor; say Logitech camera, Eufy vacuum, WeMo plugs, and Phillips Vue, all using slightly different automation routines.
I'm not sure how that would work if we didn't have something like HomeKit to corral them all together.
This gets even weirder with CHIP, if you have both an Alexa powered TV, a Google Wifi, and an Apple Homekit setup all co-existing with the same hardware. In theory you could configure all your devices on all your hubs, or pick one, or do some on one and some on another.
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I looked into home automation with things like Phillips bulbs and all. But I am not into crazy colors anyway, and I am not enamored enough with my iPhone (or any phone) to make it the center of my life to control it.
However, I do not need a washer to announce to my phone that it is done--it has a buzzer that screams to tell me that. Same with the dryer. Both will buzz for at least 3 minutes saying "We are done damn it." If I needed to know that when I am elsewhere in the house, I can get a cheap baby monitor and I would know 20 miles away!
My oven is now beeping loudly that it has reached the 500F I set it at, and when I am done with this post, my made-from-scratch pizza will go in it. Sure I had to get off the couch to set it, but that means I got in another 15 steps for the day, and I had to get up to start making the pizza dough anyway.
Frankly the only thing about home automaton that is remotely interesting I already had---my car has a button to push to open the garage door. But that is not much different than the old Genie remote my grandparents had.
My issue is I want my home automation to function when my internet goes down. none of the current smart devices can function without internet access. I do have a small pile of wireless remotes for secondary light switches but they use regular 900mhz waves and have short range and are primarily used to control christmas lights.
if I could find a local only app that did wifi light control I might switch to that. but those don't exist unless you roll your own
I use Samsung Smartthings. It is a smart hub that connects to Zigbee, ZWave, and Bluetooth devices (I think it can control WiFi devices too). Tasks you program into it work whether or not the Internet connection is up.
For example, in my poorly designed house there's no light switch next to the garage entry door, which means I used to stumble around in the dark when I got home. I put a sensor on the door and plugged a light into a switchable plug. Then I programmed it to turn on the light for 1 minute if it detects the door opening during night time hours. It works whether or not the Internet is up. Also, none of my IOT devices are on WiFi and I put the Smartthings hub behind a firewall.
Alexa can be enabled to talk to Smartthings, so I tell Alexa to turn on my Christmas tree when I get home. (Though Alexa, of course, won't work without the Internet).
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sudo unify the standards
Sorry, still figuring out the right way to slot in xkcd references in a non-eye rolling way.
Sorry, still figuring out the right way to slot in xkcd references in a non-eye rolling way.
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It is interesting that Legrande and Schneider are also supporting this. They are very well known on the corporate side of things for installation and construction but not so much in the residential space. I have a feeling that this standard is going to start at the home and end up as a business solution. Security etc. would have to be addressed for that to happen so I'm optimistic that if/when it moves upward, that concern will be fully addressed.
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