Apple expands iPhone repair-shop program to include Macs
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
Actually he had a fair bit to say about batteries. Not exactly board level repairs. See for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPRjVvccQVM
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
Correction! Apple leaked two repair manuals, they are also abridged versions of what the AASP's get.
No schematics or board-views!
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
There's a very good reason for the particular order of the slogan "reduce, reuse, recycle". Big corps have tried to abscond their responsibility by over-emphasizing that consumers recycle, when a large portion of the responsibility rests with them to design products that encourages the reduction of consumption, and the reuse of old products. For example, encouraging people to sort bottles at home before putting them in the recycling bin makes a tiny dent compared to not selling people the lifestyle of bottled water in the first place, and selling reusable bottles for tap water instead.
Upvote
9
(10
/
-1)
Solder stencils, easy to get. Apple actively sabotages repair shops by ordering custom versions of commodity chips with pins swapped so they can seize them in customs and block suppliers from selling them. All of those chips are already in the wild, in people’s phones.
You’re concern trolling using anti right to repair talking points they’ve repeated many times in these hearings. What’s next, that the repair shop is going to hack your phone and install TikTok? There is no danger to anyone’s IP desoldering a bad chip and putting a new one on
Louis Rossman possesses all of your equipment, and proves daily he can run a profitable business doing this. As do many others around the country and the world.
Upvote
12
(16
/
-4)
I just don't understand why Apple gets a pass in the repairibility department.
If Dell made a laptop, and they pumped the whole thing full of epoxy or potting compound, you bet your ass heads would roll.
I'm just trying to understand what appears to be some sort of cognitive dissonance here?
If Dell made a laptop, and they pumped the whole thing full of epoxy or potting compound, you bet your ass heads would roll.
I'm just trying to understand what appears to be some sort of cognitive dissonance here?
Upvote
-7
(4
/
-11)
Upvote
-2
(8
/
-10)
Are you going to keep arguing with strawmen this entire topic? The prevailing mood is certainly not giving Apple a "pass."
Upvote
5
(6
/
-1)
You're suggesting I'm constructing a straw man argument, because the topic of this thread deals with Apple providing the same stuff I'm asking for, to independent repair shops.
That's a good gesture and a start (probably with some type of legal basis), but it's not sufficient in the context of rights that should be afforded to the owner of said product.
I totally believe in the idea that Apple, or Ford, or Tesla, or whoever, should provide repair information and parts, on a retail basis, to any customer that is willing to pay a fair price for this service. -- And that's what it is - it's a service. It costs money to keep service manuals up to date, and it costs money to operate the equivalent of a parts counter (whether physical or on-line). I understand that. So charge a fair price for this stuff, and let people who want to repair or tinker, pay you for this. This almost seems like a win-win situation for all parties involved. Apple gets to sell me some repair manuals and parts, and I get to keep jamming to my iPod? What's the problem, specifically?
The idea that repair information and parts availability is somehow controversial is just totally lost on me.
Upvote
-7
(1
/
-8)
I'm a Honda owner. I can go right here --
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.aspx
And pay a reasonable fee, starting at $10 a day, and access technical information for any facet of my vehicle, and can also obtain access to dealer-level diagnostic software.
I can walk into any parts counter at a Honda dealer, and buy any component for my car. No questions asked, and no drama. I don't have to explain myself or justify why I'm buying any particular part.
This is the type of stuff that techies should be applauding -- but instead there's a trend to prop up companies that are adversarial to repairs, specifically in the case of Apple or Tesla. Glued-in batteries have become a good thing, and a car that the owner can't service have also become something laudable. I just don't understand this position.
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.aspx
And pay a reasonable fee, starting at $10 a day, and access technical information for any facet of my vehicle, and can also obtain access to dealer-level diagnostic software.
I can walk into any parts counter at a Honda dealer, and buy any component for my car. No questions asked, and no drama. I don't have to explain myself or justify why I'm buying any particular part.
This is the type of stuff that techies should be applauding -- but instead there's a trend to prop up companies that are adversarial to repairs, specifically in the case of Apple or Tesla. Glued-in batteries have become a good thing, and a car that the owner can't service have also become something laudable. I just don't understand this position.
Upvote
8
(9
/
-1)
He isn't on the new one either. He already posted a video on this news.
Upvote
0
(1
/
-1)
This "repair program" forces the repair business owner to:
* let apple audit the business at any time
* to share personal client data on all of its clients with Apple
* all of this not limited to Apple repair part of the business
A little bit of a more critical coverage of this topic would be nice.
* let apple audit the business at any time
* to share personal client data on all of its clients with Apple
* all of this not limited to Apple repair part of the business
A little bit of a more critical coverage of this topic would be nice.
Upvote
9
(11
/
-2)
I'm all over right to repair but I wish literally anybody else was the face of it. And I do mean literally anybody else.
Upvote
-6
(4
/
-10)
Tell that to my 'early 2011' MBP, whose ATI graphics chip has been replaced by a 3rd party shop for about half the price Apple quoted for a board off the same stack with the same issue (BGA solder points cracking).
Yes, Apple later refunded the fee, but their recall programs are always time-limited, and when the replacement board fails (which it will), you are on your own.
Then again, they can always make perfectly usable hardware obsolete by ending OS support...
Upvote
1
(4
/
-3)
This is a good move for Apple. I live a short seven hour drive from the nearest Apple Store and if I owned any Apple products, this would make me happy, since there are retailers relatively close by that sell Apple gear and now will be able to do more extensive repairs as well as sales.
A few years ago, my father bought a new iMac and he got the local store to upgrade the RAM in the machine for a third of the price of Apple's hardware upgrade. Apple have shipped too little RAM in all their machines since the late 90s to be able to upsell anyone knowing they need more RAM to a usable configuration with ludicrous pricing. Their soldering in of anything these days is to prevent people that know better from giving them 300% of the price of a RAM or SSD upgrade.
Maybe with this move, third parties might be able to do what they should be able to do all along, ie make consumers a better offer and compete with Apple on RAM and SSD upgrades, earning them a healthy margin locally, the consumer a cheaper and more fairly priced upgrade and Apple the competition it needs to stop being a dick to its users.
A few years ago, my father bought a new iMac and he got the local store to upgrade the RAM in the machine for a third of the price of Apple's hardware upgrade. Apple have shipped too little RAM in all their machines since the late 90s to be able to upsell anyone knowing they need more RAM to a usable configuration with ludicrous pricing. Their soldering in of anything these days is to prevent people that know better from giving them 300% of the price of a RAM or SSD upgrade.
Maybe with this move, third parties might be able to do what they should be able to do all along, ie make consumers a better offer and compete with Apple on RAM and SSD upgrades, earning them a healthy margin locally, the consumer a cheaper and more fairly priced upgrade and Apple the competition it needs to stop being a dick to its users.
Upvote
-3
(1
/
-4)
Upvote
6
(8
/
-2)
It's almost as if people arguing in favour of Apple's despicable stance don't know what they are talking about...
Upvote
-1
(4
/
-5)
Those stencils are easy to get from China.
https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/ipho ... encil.html
Watch StrangeParts https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO8DQr ... 37qNqTooOw for how someone replaces stuff on iphones at home, then think about how easy it would be for someone like Louis Rossmann with better equipment.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
"It will allow some third-party shops that serve areas that Apple Stores don't to provide a level of service for iPhones and Macs that is closer to what consumers would get at an Apple Store."
Good. Folks who are distanced from an Apple Store can now go to a closer, third-party shop and be told that the problem can be fixed for $879.99 and take five to ten days. And told that a new phone of the same model would be $899.99.
Good. Folks who are distanced from an Apple Store can now go to a closer, third-party shop and be told that the problem can be fixed for $879.99 and take five to ten days. And told that a new phone of the same model would be $899.99.
Upvote
2
(3
/
-1)
While I support the right to repair, that's not a fair analogy. Closer: you expect the dealer to repair components like alternators, starters, or headlight assemblies. And they simply replace them.
I find it odd that most consumers accept parts swapping (as opposed to part repair) on cars, appliances, and nearly everything else in the modern world, but somehow not PCs and related tech gear. I don't mean swapping out modules like batteries, storage, RAM, power supplies, etc., I mean board level repairs.
I'm glad there are techs out there like Louis, but to actively expect manufactures to provide board-level schematics seems fairly idealistic. I look around at consumer devices, and see little evidence of repair of much of anything.
I would support Apple selling parts. I would support and really advocate for Apple making things more repairable. But it seems unlikely to expect Apple (or Dell, Lenovo, HP, and the rest) to supply everything to customers.
One thing not addressed much in comments or the article is the *quality* of the repair. It seems less well known that many repairs don't last as long as a new factory built part. Most repairs, from techs, like Louis have a very short warranty. And as others have mentioned, occasionally things go badly and a device is rendered unusable. Who pays for that? Even though I don't really like it, I understand how Apple and other OEMs do not want the risk of failed repairs damaging their brand.
Nor do I hear anybody addressing the issue of risk to brand when damaged machines get poor repairs and then get resold to a "sucker". This happens all the time with cars....a totaled car gets rebuilt just good enough to look appealing to an unsuspecting buyer. I could see it being even worse with tech gear; the used market could be flooded with sketchy gear. Why would Apple or any other OEM not want to prevent or stifle that?
Upvote
0
(2
/
-2)
Honestly, how many people are able / want to repair their electronics by themselves? 0.5% of the population? And it happens with every technology anyway, the more systems grow complex and/or small the more they get closed: from engines, to TVs and computers and so on, it’s not something new or exclusive of Apple.
The market has shown the great majority of people don’t care nor want modular phones, non soldered batteries etc. They are happy going to a repair centre when something fails, the minuscule minority that disagree with that should get over it.
The market has shown the great majority of people don’t care nor want modular phones, non soldered batteries etc. They are happy going to a repair centre when something fails, the minuscule minority that disagree with that should get over it.
Upvote
-3
(1
/
-4)
They killed it off. They won't sell a logic board. Most of the repair parts are salvaged/scavenged off broken systems. Which apple also frowns upon and calls them pirated parts or something to that language.
Pretty much lets say you have a soldered on SSD encrypted and no backup. The only way to recover is to get the board working because the encryption is tied to the hardware. Apple would fix it by sending you a new board and all your data would be gone. Where a 3rd party guy who replaces parts in theory could get your board working by replacing only failed parts.
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
For the desktop PC space, swapping modules is the general way to deal with issues. Even for laptops, that was the norm for everyone. Still is for some manufacturers.
But for Apple, and for smartphone makers, and several other segments, the trend has been to lock it all down, and solder it all directly to one board.
You can make an argument that it's necessary for small devices, but for iPad's and laptops, definitely no thanks, and I don't think "necessary" is the right description for phones either.
In any case, the ability for a repair shop to repair a $1000+ device should not be in question, and the bill should be commensurate with damage. That is still mostly the case for vehicles.
Upvote
1
(2
/
-1)
Apple would first chastise you for not using iCloud backup, and if you bring up the fact that it costs money to pay for the space needed to back up a SSD, they'd chastise you for being stingy.
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
They aren't happy if they have to leave their phone with a repair centre for a week for something that should take an hour.
They also aren't happy when the price of a simple repair is almost as much as the phone itself, or a new one.
Of course people are taking stuff to repair shops. The problem is the repair shops are not allowed to do many things because of Apple's iron grip.
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
Not just Apple. *Any* tech or shop with integrity would recommend that everybody always has a backup. When has that not been the case? On any platform?
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Either Ars Technica as a deal to play nice with Apple or the reporter is lazy by making no mention of the third-party's repair shops side of the story - which is information abundantly available. It would show it’s just an Apple marketing stunt to improve public and politic opinion during this controversial time for them. [IMO]
You can get an honest review on this program from Louis Rossman, independent repair shop entrepreneur:
https://youtu.be/GPRjVvccQVM
You can get an honest review on this program from Louis Rossman, independent repair shop entrepreneur:
https://youtu.be/GPRjVvccQVM
Upvote
2
(3
/
-1)
That's the thing though, with Apple (and a few other manufacturers *cough*John Deere*cough*Tesla*cough*) you aren't even allowed to swap subcomponents. You need their blessing and oversight, and third party shops aren't allowed to do most things.
It's funnelling people into paying Apple more, via overly tight control of IP and supply chain.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Your own analogy falls short. Parts swapping on a car is like replacing a single damaged module on a board. They're not repairing that tiny little resistor or capacitor or module. They're replacing it with a good one. Just like a mechanic replaces the alternator or water pump on your car. If we were going to go by your own analogy, what you'd expect to see is, rather than replace a rusted out muffler by cutting it out and welding a new one in place, the dealer would rather you pay several times as much to have a brand new exhaust system welded in place. Or rather than a new water pump, a brand new engine. That's what Apple does. They don't replace the bad chip on your logic board, they put in a whole new logic board, and send the old one off to a refurb center where they can do the repair at their leisure and sell a refurbished phone, ipad, or laptop for 80% of the cost of a new laptop.
And this is largely due to economics for Apple. To start with, it's time consuming to train someone to do these kinds of repairs properly. Second, having a trained repair technician at every Apple store is something of a waste of manpower if they only rarely do repairs. Third, they have to distribute service manuals, replacement parts, and tools and a workshop to every (or at least most) stores. It may not be that much individually, but it does add up over time.
Next, it cuts into revenue. If they charged prices for repair that are more in line with what 3rd party shops do, they simply don't make as much from the repair. It also cuts into revenue from replacement devices and AppleCare service plan upsells. And they don't get a nearly free stream of dead devices to refurbish and resell themselves. Allowing 3rd Party repair shops to do it also cuts into revenue, from people deciding they don't really need that AppleCare plan (which is really just a real warranty that should be part of the product and not an addon), to people not paying Apple's outrageous prices for repairs, and again that loss of refurbishable parts that they get more or less for free from all the people choosing to just buy a new iThing instead of having theirs fixed.
Upvote
-3
(1
/
-4)
I disagree. Swapping parts assemblies is...swapping parts assemblies. Replacing components is: repairing. In our car analogy, would GM or VW or anybody repair a circuit board? Nope. They would swap them out.
And in your example...no OEMs don't cut off and weld on mufflers. The replace the entire assembly. No matter how much we wish they would, they don't.
No arguments about repair profitability.
Upvote
-1
(2
/
-3)
Not so much. Real-world example:
I cracked the headlight on my Model 3. I bought a new replacement on eBay. I paid a local body shop to swap out the assembly, as I did not want to tackle removing the front end myself. The shop did a great job at a fair price.
I chatted with the shop owner about Teslas. He reported that to get Tesla certified, techs have to do extensive training at a significant cost. He did point out that other OEMs have similar requirements, but that he had not pursued Tesla certification yet as there are not too many Teslas in our area yet...but that he expected to proceed when he perceived there was enough repair demand.
The car has been in to Tesla service since then for an unrelated wiring issue. They repaired without care or concern about the headlight replacement.
I don't know if Tesla would have sold me the part without doing the repair work, as I never asked about it.
None of this felt any different to me than previous experiences with more traditional brands, other than buying the part on eBay vs. a traditional parts store. I've had similar experiences other the years buying car parts from salvage yards instead of OEMs.
Upvote
1
(2
/
-1)
Yeah, I love it that my phone's battery is soldered in and basically not replaceable. I love buying a new phone when the battery dies. I'm looking forward to the same development with automobiles.
Oh, yes, it delights my soul when a company makes a device with which many self repairs, with the aid of a five-minute YouTube video, could take fifteen minutes and save me a few hundred bucks, and that company does everything they can to keep me from making those repairs.
It took me a long time to get over the fact that companies deny me the ability to repair the products I purchased from them. But now that I'm over it, I rather enjoy the taste of leather when I'm boot-licking Apple's upper echelon.
I guess you're right, it's not like most repairs on phones, notebooks, laptops, and desktops are easy or anything like that. I once had a bad RAM stick, and it took days to replace on my desktop. I should have taken it into a professional. And that new hard drive took a week to install. Damn! A engineer buddy of mine even went so far as to attempt to open an Apple laptop but was deterred by proprietary screws and glue, which is great because I'm sure he wouldn't have known what to do once he got into it.
Yeah, companies making it impossible for customers to repair the products that the customers paid good money for is such an excellent idea.
Upvote
1
(3
/
-2)
It's indeed unreasonable to expect Apple or Dell to sell every single chip and capacitor they use but why go up the supply chain and block the selling of those mundane parts to outfits like Louis Rossmann? Let the man buy his charging chip and let him do a board level repair so that you don't have to pay for a full motherboard replacement.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
It's funny how 'board schematics and board components' are some sort of forbidden fruit these days.
Electronic items used to come with schematics right in the manual (or pasted on the inside of the case). And components were easy to get (either standard, or custom components easily available).
The throwaway society that companies have convinced us as being 'normal' makes this sort of thing (repairing SOMETHING YOU OWN yourself) unusual. And that's criminal IMHO.
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
Umm, why? If you're skilled at it the 'repair' is perfectly fine. I've done that work, it takes practice, but there's nothing magical about it.
Seems you've drunk the Apple cool-aid convincing you that board level repairs are 'bad'.
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
Louis will have a more colourful version of Rich's take on repairing Teslas: "Right to repair doesn't mean anything, if the vendor has no authorised dealers".
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
Whats the model number on of the laptop? And not the advertised one but the actual model number on the sticker on the bottom.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)