Apple demands EU repeal the Digital Markets Act

"DMA compliance is not optional, it's an obligation," the EU reminds Apple.

See full article...

 

[dogmai]

And their one concrete example isn't even very good. Making translation work with non-iPod headphones is no big deal. If there's some special sauce running in the headphones, then publish an API that anyone can use, and let competitors write their own firmware. Apple could even offer a testing and compliance program, like Microsoft does for Windows drivers.

They just don't want to compete fairly, is what's really going on. They've manufactured an artificial monopoly with their device lockdowns, and in Europe, which is saner than the US for regulation, that doesn't fly. In sensible countries, device makers don't get to wall customers into a garden and force them to buy everything from that single source.

If you want to stay in the garden, though, that's fine.

I don’t understand this line of thinking at all.

When does a company who for the last 25ish years that only makes hardware to work with their software become something bad?

Why can’t Apple make product A (iPhone). Then make a product B (Air Pods) as an accessory only for their product A?

You mean to tell me that I must make my product B compatible with other competitors product A?

Or tell them (competitors) via documents how to compete with my product B so they can take sales away from me?

 

[barich]

When does a company who for the last 25ish years that only makes hardware to work with their software become something bad?

When they became one of a duopoly with a large enough market share to be a gatekeeper.

 

[dogmai]

When they became one of a duopoly with a large enough market share to be a gatekeeper.

But with this line of thinking, that means Apple in perpetuity can never make a new product ever again that solely works with one of their existing products. (How is that fair?) I wouldn’t outright abandon that market but I would definitely work into my quarterly projections a continual slow down of sales. Because I would just provide the minimum update needed for that particular market.

So in perpetuity Apple must not only be their own R&D but all other companies R&D as well to ensure competition.

But those other companies just need to sit back and wait for Apples next thing.

I don’t see how that is really competing when company A is always forced to provide company B with the roadmap for how to compete with it.

 

[Hoptimist]

Problem is Apple make a heck of a lot of money from the app store, which means they want to shift a large number of devices. Ideally with an ecosystem that limits competition.

Your alternative is a loss for Apple in that regard. Likely a more significant loss than just sucking it up and following the EU's rules would be.

Under the DMA rules most of that app store money disappears, because it is from Apple's cut of the IAP. The interoperability requirements mean any Apple service can be duplicated by a competitor. From a business perspective, Apple has compensated for stagnant sales by expanding on services. If you take away services and the app store profit, you are back to simply selling the hardware and a stagnant business. Getting under the DMA threshold would allow them to grow service revenue and maintain margins, even if the overall size of that market is smaller. In Ars speak, the DMA makes line not go up (both profit margin and service growth go down), if you get under the DMA threshold the overall number may be smaller, but line still goes up.

 

[icebergFromLaputa]

Apple and Google will be gradually step back from the EU. Nothing dramatic, the EU zone will just be treated like Africa; minimal deliveries, minimal resources, minimal effort.

And China will be happy to fill the void

 

[juancn]

Google is also asking for a repeal

https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/the-digital-markets-act-time-for-a-reset/

 

[Sabugo]

Apple and Google will be gradually step back from the EU. Nothing dramatic, the EU zone will just be treated like Africa; minimal deliveries, minimal resources, minimal effort.

I really enjoy how people like yourself are so slavishly devoted to your brand of choice that the idea of a life without a certain manufacturer's gadgets is equivalent to the obliteration of society. Oh no, whatever will we do if two multi-billion dollar corporations that do not pay their fair share of tax can no longer enrich themselves with our citizens' data while having the rubes pay for the privilege!

 

[chie]

Apple is whining about stuff their competitors already do, worldwide including the EU. Eg, "live translation via its AirPods"? Samsung, Huawei, Google, Timekettle, etc etc do it now,. That's just an example. All the hoohah about the latest iOS this month has been about cosmetics, and even those are meh. And the hardware story has been pretty dreary: ugly colours, scratched coatings, and more.

Fascinating to see Apple users' online videos talking about what a different, positive experience switching to Samsung Galaxies is - and how they never realised how stale Apple has become. Under Tim Cook (Trump collaborator BTW) the company has devolved from an engineering pioneer to a financialist money machine.

Good on the EU focusing on consumer benefits, rather than corporate profits and control.

 

[Narayana]

The question is, if Apple starts to play hardball and withdraws from the EU market, will the EU lawmakers defend their sovereignty and free markets, or will they cave to Apple due to users being upset they can't use Apple products?

I want to see Apple lose this particular fight, but it's not clear they would.

1) if Apple rage quit the EU, they would lose a lot more money than a some engineering hours making sure devices are DMA compliant.

2) that revenue would go to one of Apple's competitors


It all equates to "if you make me have to spend $1 more in compliance, I will retaliate by losing $1000 AND give those 1000$ to my competitor !!". It hardly makes a for credible threat does it?


Apple: Just do as you are told. Dont act like a spoiled child. You are all big boys and girls now.

 

[DKlimax]

Apple and Google will be gradually step back from the EU. Nothing dramatic, the EU zone will just be treated like Africa; minimal deliveries, minimal resources, minimal effort.

Why are you posting your dreams?

The "european region" is their second largest market, according to Daring Fireball that includes all of Africa, the Middle East and India. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/05/02/apples-regional-segments-for-financial-reporting

One should be clear that the actual profit from DMA countries is substantially less than what Apple reports as euro region profit, regardless on how you feel about the likelihood of Apple not bringing their 'A' game or actually leaving it.

All of that is completely irrelevant. Apple loves Ireland too much...

I don't think they actually will, but if you are going to make a demand, you have to have some kind of leverage to go with it.

I suppose with Apple's massive access to wealth, the implied threat might not be to withdraw from the market, but to start using that wealth to flood EU nations with messages to affect elections and unseat current EU legislators. Much as corps do here in America.

That'd be one of stupidest ideas ever. We'd just deal with them as we do with Russain interference.

I don't really think Apple is going to pull out in protest, but hypothetically speaking. . .

Apple users are, generally, more affluent and politically important than users of other phones and, generally, fanatically loyal to Apple. Cult is too strong of a word, but sort of cult-like following. Although, I don't know if it's exactly the same in Europe, perhaps in EU, Apple isn't the device of choice for pretty much the entire upper-middle class and wealthy class like it is in the US.

In the US, if someone is a cultural leader (artist, musician, writer, graphic designer), business leader, or political leader, you probably have a Mac and an iPhone, and maybe an iPad too.

Apple has far weaker position in Europe. They never captured us as they did Americans. Not even sure we have anything similar to american "leaders". Not sure if anybody even pays attention to what phone anybody has.

 

[TimeToTilt]

But with this line of thinking, that means Apple in perpetuity can never make a new product ever again that solely works with one of their existing products. (How is that fair?) I wouldn’t outright abandon that market but I would definitely work into my quarterly projections a continual slow down of sales. Because I would just provide the minimum update needed for that particular market.

So in perpetuity Apple must not only be their own R&D but all other companies R&D as well to ensure competition.

But those other companies just need to sit back and wait for Apples next thing.

I don’t see how that is really competing when company A is always forced to provide company B with the roadmap for how to compete with it.

And all those times where apple has come in and directly cut out app makers with a built in os level app? Or how apple sells a Spotify competitor that doesn't have to pay the thirty prevent app tax? Or how until very recently no non apple wallets could access nft for payments, a thing android has had since day one?

You don't see how all that shit is highly problematic and anti competition?

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

Or tell them (competitors) via documents how to compete with my product B so they can take sales away from me?

When you have manufactured a monopoly, such that other companies cannot compete with you, then yes, you must open your system up and tell competitors how they can take sales away.

 

[r3m0t]

So, an important piece of context not mentioned or linked in the article is that Apple did just publish a more specific list of grievances they have with the DMA:

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/09/the-digital-markets-acts-impacts-on-eu-users/

Some of them definitely boil down to 'wahh customers will be in danger buying apps from anyone but us', but there are a few that do give me pause, assuming Apple is not misrepresenting them:

To compete with the Apple Watch an app needs matching access to notifications. Similarly WiFi networks can be used to set up or reconnect to printers. How that data is processed is up to the company and its privacy policy which the end user would agree to.

Also, it's very carefully worded - it doesn't say if Apple actually granted the request or if they were able to decline it for another reason.

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

Because I would just provide the minimum update needed for that particular market.

That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can make enormously more money in Europe by just complying with the law. There's a gargantuan amount of profit on the table that you'd be walking away from, just because you felt pissy about it.

Being able to abuse customers in the US will not make up for the loss of non-abuse customers in the EU.

 

[tigas]

Lesser of two evils? Aurora OS might be an option. Or maybe HarmonyOS. Couple of very well funded entities very pleased if you show interest in adopting that. But probably already on the naughty step.

Unfortunately if you take an OS from either a government (any government) or an under-funded startup that has to cover all the bases long term, you’re a bleeding edge adopter (or pretty much screwed from the get go). For the masses that have a choice - you require companies the size of Apple and Google.

AuroraOS? I don't want to be an FSB drone and have Russia know everything I'm doing, thank you. Use the upstream of Aurora, Sailfish (which is actually European).

 

[Mintaka87]

“Despite our concerns with the DMA, teams across Apple are spending thousands of hours to bring new features to the European Union while meeting the law’s requirements."

Let's break that down.

Since this is an advocacy statement, Apple is going to use the largest number it can get away with. If it say "thousands of hours" they mean between 1000 and 9999. If it were 10,000+, they would have said "tens of thousands of hours". 40 hours per week with 2 weeks of vacation is 2000 hours a year. That means Apple is complaining that they have to dedicate the equivalent of between 1 person working half-time on DMA compliance and 5 people working full-time on DMA compliance. That's out of 164,000 employees, and to obey the law in a market worth $101 billion in revenue in 2024. Cry me a river, Apple. Cry me a river.

 

[Mawich]

Under the DMA rules most of that app store money disappears, because it is from Apple's cut of the IAP. The interoperability requirements mean any Apple service can be duplicated by a competitor. From a business perspective, Apple has compensated for stagnant sales by expanding on services. If you take away services and the app store profit, you are back to simply selling the hardware and a stagnant business. Getting under the DMA threshold would allow them to grow service revenue and maintain margins, even if the overall size of that market is smaller. In Ars speak, the DMA makes line not go up (both profit margin and service growth go down), if you get under the DMA threshold the overall number may be smaller, but line still goes up.

Funnily enough the correct response to interoperability requirements is for Apple to make sure its own services are competitive so that users will choose to use them rather than being forced to.

But that takes innovation and ideas and investment and good engineering and other difficult things so it's easier to go cry on Trump's smelly boots.

 

[daduke]

I also have no interest in alternative app stores, but think they should be available for those that are interested.

Google and Apple replied: "Alternative app stores are insecure! We protect you! (with our 30% tax)".

There are too many things our phone prevent us from doing for our own safety: this includes upgrading if for a while.

Oh wait, Apple does it for computers too... Sorry. Oh and Microsofts too... Damn!

 

[daduke]

Good thing Apple answer makes the headlines: Barbara Streisand effect triggered by stupid lobbyist is always a good fun.

The good thing with laws and regulation like DMA being in place is to raise people awareness on how these companies would like to manipulate their customers.

Sad this is the global feeling: If it annoys GAFAs it must be a good thing for everyone...

 

[Solhaven]

So how does it affect you?

I don't get the Live Translation anytime soon and I looked forward to use this feature.

 

[t122648]

despicable: adjective
1) very unpleasant or bad, causing strong feelings of dislike:
2) Apple

 

[Hoptimist]

Funnily enough the correct response to interoperability requirements is for Apple to make sure its own services are competitive so that users will choose to use them rather than being forced to.

But that takes innovation and ideas and investment and good engineering and other difficult things so it's easier to go cry on Trump's smelly boots.

Apple is pretty much already interoperable with major audio and video services, the likely issue for Apple is where they anticipate going (have already gone) with heath and wearables - particularly all that juicy data. They can claim to keep your data encrypted to only local Apple devices. Once interoperability is required, it's a lot more work to implement a chain of encryption across multiple accessory/software providers. Especially when such providers can be of the 'whack a mole' name of the day brands readily seen on Amazon. Much more likely given all the requests from Meta to the EU for 'interoperability user data' is that Meta would be one of the first such 'makers' along the lines of their nefarious VPN service. It's Apple problem, not mine. I was simply pointing out that there are much less painful options than the suggestions for withdrawing from the EU that some have made.

 

[DKlimax]

Google and Apple replied: "Alternative app stores are insecure! We protect you! (with our 30% tax)".

There are too many things our phone prevent us from doing for our own safety: this includes upgrading if for a while.

Oh wait, Apple does it for computers too... Sorry. Oh and Microsofts too... Damn!

Would you mind explaining what do you mean by "upgrading it for a while"?

 

[Kirsu]

I'm European and thanks to the EU, we have USB-C everywhere, but also thanks to the EU, we have that kind of crapshow. For instance, I have an iPhone and zero interest in alternative app stores, I wouldn't even know where to find them and enable them on the device without a dedicated search effort. So there are some wins, and some annoyances.

Oh damn. I wasn't aware that the law forces you to find and use those alternative stores.

 

[Solhaven]

Oh damn. I wasn't aware that the law forces you to find and use those alternative stores.

It doesn't, but deprives me of other services for which I purposefully went into Apple's ecosystem.

 

[DRJlaw]

Why are you posting your dreams?

Because they enjoy imagining themselves as being a CEO without the skills and judgment to be a CEO. For example, by not realizing that their Board of Directors and public shareholders will not go along with permanently losing a far greater sum than they would otherwise in a giant fit of pique.

Hint: any action, whether selling at a discount or withdrawing from a market, is done with the premise of gaining more profit or minimizing losses in the long term. Their strategy does neither -- the populace is not going to rise up against their governments because Imaginary Apple withdrew from the market, they're simply going to keep using their phones, and eventually switch, or eventually purchase off of the grey market because the EU isn't banning Imaginary Apple's products, they're banning Imaginary Apple's actions.

But watching Imaginary Apple suing EU consumers to enforce their withdrawal from the EU would be hoot. Real pyrrhic victory there.

 

[DRJlaw]

It doesn't, but deprives me of other services for which I purposefully went into Apple's ecosystem.

Like what? What are you deprived of? Again, the law doesn't force you to find and use those alternative stores. You've literally not been deprived of anything.

 

[gnasher729]

Easy way for Apple : we don't use it for our apps, so nobody needs it. Apple should just list what is system information, that belongs to the system and not helping those big new feature, and what information is usefull to interoperability.
Sometimes, I have the feeling that Apple is making bad example just to cry.

And there comes another 500 million euro fine. You may have noticed that Apple Watches cannot be called “carbon neutral” because Apple doesn’t guarantee they will stay carbon neutral until 2050. Thats the EU.

 

[bigsnake499]

I have long supported the splitting of apple into different wholly owned subsidiaries. They will get the same info at the same time as everybody else. They would be allowed to compete on the Android platform also. A lot of the bellyaching of the minute minority might disappear. On the other hand maybe not.

 

[TylerH]

Apple argues the bloc’s digital rules have made it harder to make exorbitant profits in Europe and improved consumers’ experience.

Fixed that for you, Apple.

 

[Solhaven]

Like what? What are you deprived of? Again, the law doesn't force you to find and use those alternative stores. You've literally not been deprived of anything.

As I mentioned, I won't be able to use Live Translation as European, while the rest of the world will. This being said, I'm not an extremist. It's the law, so I go along. I'm just annoyed by that particular missing feature, that's all.

 

[TylerH]

Apple demanding things of sovereign nations, now? How about demanding China impose better working conditions in its factories and better environmental protection in its extraction and processing industries first?

It's not just China that is imposing the working conditions or environmental protections. Apple could do that themselves if they want to. Apple could also start paying Chinese workers a U.S. minimum wage, instead of the $244/month they currently pay out. Apple could require their Chinese workers only work 8 or 10 hour shifts, with adequate breaks, with healthcare coverage and US OSHA-compliant operational procedures and factory construction, etc. They have the ability to enforce all of these things as a company, too.

 

[TylerH]

As I mentioned, I won't be able to use Live Translation as European, while the rest of the world will. This being said, I'm not an extremist. It's the law, so I go along. I'm just annoyed by that particular missing feature, that's all.

That has nothing to do with Apple being forced to provide a more level playing field, though.

 

[barich]

As I mentioned, I won't be able to use Live Translation as European, while the rest of the world will. This being said, I'm not an extremist. It's the law, so I go along. I'm just annoyed by that particular missing feature, that's all.

I am really struggling to think of what might technologically tie live translation to any specific earbuds other than Apple's desire that you buy them.

 

[Walker On Earth]

Apple and Google will be gradually step back from the EU. Nothing dramatic, the EU zone will just be treated like Africa; minimal deliveries, minimal resources, minimal effort.

Tell me you don't know how business works without telling me you don't know how business works.

 

[dogmai]

And all those times where apple has come in and directly cut out app makers with a built in os level app? Or how apple sells a Spotify competitor that doesn't have to pay the thirty prevent app tax? Or how until very recently no non apple wallets could access nft for payments, a thing android has had since day one?

You don't see how all that shit is highly problematic and anti competition?

Adding features at the OS level where apps were already meeting that need, yes, that is anti-competitive. I will say this, though, as a developer myself. I have a five-year road map of over a dozen features I am adding to a project. I assume Apple already knows what their OS will look like 5 years from now or longer. Should Apple be forced not to follow their dev roadmap because someone made an app that Apple was already working on?

The Spotify situation is much different from that.

iTunes launched Jan 9, 2001, it saved the music industry by getting people to pay .99 per song.

Spotify:

• Approval Process: Apple approved the Spotify iPhone app in late August 2009. The approval was notable at the time because many wondered if Apple would block an app that could directly compete with its own iTunes music store.
• Initially for Premium Subscribers: The app was initially only available to Spotify's Premium subscribers in the European countries where the service had already launched.
• U.S. Expansion: The app was later released in the U.S. iTunes Store on July 14, 2011, shortly after Spotify's official U.S. launch.

2015 Apple Music launches.

At the time leading up to Apple Music coming out, every tech site and comment was saying that Apple needed to add streaming to iTunes. It made perfect sense from a development perspective. You always update your software to accommodate new trends in how consumers behave. I look at Apple Music as an update to their music software, which they had to do. If they hadn't, the press at the time would have crucified Apple for not competing in a Market they had dominated.

NFT:
My worldview is that if there is a product in the market that provides a service (Android NFT payments) and another product does not (Apple iphone), then the consumer can choose which one they want. For me, this goes for any entrant or dominant player in a market. You can make your product work however you like.

All of this, though, does not address why Apple must share its new products with its competitors.

 

[barich]

Google is also asking for a repeal

https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/the-digital-markets-act-time-for-a-reset/

My knee-jerk reaction is that they should be fined just for publishing such disingenuous propaganda. I don't actually stand by that, but no company should be allowed to get big enough that it thinks it's entitled to tell governments what to do.

 

[dogmai]

When you have manufactured a monopoly, such that other companies cannot compete with you, then yes, you must open your system up and tell competitors how they can take sales away.

But Apple did not manufacture a monopoly. Tell me what year Apple became a monopoly and in what category.

Market share by product category (2025)
iPhones
Apple continues to be a top contender in the global smartphone market, battling Samsung for the leading position, particularly in the premium segment.

• Q1 2025: Apple captured 19% of the global smartphone market, shipping 55 million units.
• Q2 2025: Apple's market share was reported at 15.7%, though another report noted 17% market share in a different study.
• Total market leadership: Some projections estimate Apple's annual market share to reach 19% by the end of 2025, a slight increase from 17% in 2023.

iPads
iPads continue to dominate the global tablet market, though market share fluctuates slightly quarter-to-quarter.

• Q1 2025: Apple held a 37% share of the global tablet market, shipping 13.7 million units.
• Q2 2025: Apple sold 14 million iPads for a 36.1% market share. While sales volume increased, its percentage of the total tablet market declined slightly from the previous year, as the overall market grew.

Macs
While Macs hold a much smaller share of the overall PC market compared to Windows, Apple's market share is growing due to strong demand for its M-series chip devices.

• Q1 2025:
  
  • IDC: Reported Apple's PC market share at 8.7%, with Mac shipments growing 14.1% year-over-year.
  • Gartner: Gave Apple a 10.1% market share, with Mac shipments up 7% year-over-year.
• Q2 2025:
  
  • IDC: Noted strong Mac shipment growth (21.4% year-over-year), especially outside the US.

Wearables (Apple Watch and AirPods)
Apple is a dominant player in the wearables market, especially for smartwatches and true wireless stereo (TWS) headphones.

• Apple Watch (Q1 2025): Retained a top position with around 20–22% of the global smartwatch market, leveraging its integration with the iPhone ecosystem. Its share of the broader wearable bands market was around 16.3%.
• AirPods (Q1 2025): Maintained market leadership in the TWS headphone market with a 23.3% share. Shipments increased 12% year-over-year, outpacing the competition.

Are you arguing they have a monopoly on interoperability with their products? I say of course they should, just like Samsung and now Google. I expect Google's earbuds and watches to perform better with a Pixel phone, and neither Google nor Samsung should have to give away their best features they created for their earbuds, watch, and phone to competitors.

 

[DRJlaw]

As I mentioned, I won't be able to use Live Translation as European, while the rest of the world will. This being said, I'm not an extremist. It's the law, so I go along. I'm just annoyed by that particular missing feature, that's all.

No, you're being delayed from using Live Translation as a European, which to be clear involves a set of wireless earbuds transmitting an audio signal to your iPhone, the iPhone and/or Apple's service processing it, and receiving an audio signal from the iPhone. The processing happens on the phone, so the earbuds are, at most, contributing active noise cancellation.

If Apple can't figure out how to make that system interoperate with third party earbuds -- and mind you, not improve the third party's active noise cancellation or non-active microphones, merely engage in the back-and-forth transmission -- then they have more serious problems than disappointing you with a delay in a feature release.