Apple and Meta furious at EU over fines totaling €700 million
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No, VoidWeaver's username checks out. The result of their Weave is a total Void of sense or reason.
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eduardopozo56
Ars Centurion
They are free to leave the EU market if they dont want to comply with EU laws or pay the fines (and ensure compliance) when they dont. Noone is forcing them to be here.
The fact that you see this corporations as "Americans" and think that EU is leeching these corporations tells me that your brain is already rotted and brainwashed. Im sorry for you.
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1) Android & iOS absolutely is a duopoly. In Europe and elsewhere.
2) You think acquiring companies every other week isn't buying up competition? Sure, at this point Apple are so dominant that it would require major regulation to make it viable for a new Android/iOS competitor. But all these acquisitions by these tech giants are how they extend their tendrils into the market beyond their original core products, and how they ensure their consolidation of the tech market into as close to solely tech-giant owned as they can manage. Which is a lot.
3) Exactly! There are now other app stores in Europe, yes. And that’s thanks entirely to EU regulations. Imagine if we'd had such important regulation from the beginning, instead of when they absolutely dominate the market and there's little hope that competition gains any traction at all. Maybe we'd have had a Steam store for games, and wouldn't have to deal with Apple's micro-transaction infested wasteland on the App Store. I like not having just 2 retailers available for all my shopping needs in real life, it would have been fantastic to have had more than a single option per mobile phone platform from the beginning as well.
I actually like the EU's "gatekeeper" concept, because it avoids all your nitpicking on the details of monopolies and duopolies, and cuts straight to the core of the issue.
Also, If you're going to throw out petulant comments of no substance, you shouldn't be surprised when someone refutes you. "Smart parasites don't kill their host quickly." was your entire response to this article. You can hardly accuse me of moving the goalposts when you yourself removed the goalposts entirely.
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No, that is illegal. Most common is three buttons. Accept all, reject all, and options. Reject all, also rejects remembering your choice, and will keep asking you every time you navigate or come back, and you need to go to options and click "save on device" to and let the rest be rejected (which is default).
These are all dark patterns, but nothing like what you describe, because that melicious compliance has already been fined to death.
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For a long time, apps that access UGC that’s 18+, unless they were Twitter. They’ve got better about that, though they’re still restricting apps whose content they don’t like.
Now the main thing is self-generated apps: you have to reinstall them every week or pay Apple an extra $100/year (which, since I keep my phone until it’s no use, is a significant fraction of the price of the phone, just for Apple to reduce how intentionally they’ve cropped it).
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Apparently just not making an iOS app isn’t a viable solution to the developers complaints about Apple so I don’t see how just not serving the EU market is suddenly a viable solution for Apple.
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It’s almost like having more than 2 mobile operating systems and ecosystems in the market would be a desirable outcome.
Yet no one seems to be tackling the issue.
We just seem doomed to suffer from populist policy making that doesn’t address the fundamental issues.
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And so can websites that only collect user data that’s strictly necessary for the benefit the user is getting from the website (which does not include personalised ads).
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You can, since each app runs as a different user and only has access to other apps or system data through shared files and OS APIs. Apple has partially enabled users to provide false or limited data to apps (though jailbroken phones have more capabilities there), if they finish the job you’d be able to have the best of both worlds.
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When the alternative is a phone that’s built from the ground up to be a spyware device, it’s the lesser of two evils.
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They’re allowed to charge so they get the same profit from paying users, but not more (they make about $75pa per person across all Meta platforms for Europe, but since that includes “sponsored” and otherwise incentivised spam the fee would be less). They could in principle use untracked ads and use more to get up to the same profit, too, but if their tracking is any good then given how much of the feed is ads already no one would use that.
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Whenever I hear the term "unelected bureaucrats" I know the author is either working in Sct. Petersburg or is eating his propaganda feed raw.
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I can tell you’re either very rich or very very stupid because no sane average person will ever say that unregulated capitalism is good for the people.
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Get off your high horse. Also, go back to the about 50 other threads about how the EU has the termity to enforce its laws where these same people who have made a career at Ars simping for American billionaires keep going "HuRr DuRr WhAt AbOuT sOnY aNd NiNtEnDo" as if that is some kind of le epic gotcha.
American exceptionalism was a tired trope a century ago. It's just irritating as fuck now.
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Or you could just look at things on Android which aren't on iOS. Here's a few of my personal examples:
Any browser that doesn't use safari for rendering.
Tasker is a popular app that can't be replicated on iOS - it controls other apps to make automations. There are certainly arguments about security of app isolation, but there's no choice available on iOS.
Car OBD2 dongles have to be wifi on iOS, Android gets more energy efficient Bluetooth option, along with wifi.
Using the camera flash as a flashlight was done by 3rd party apps on Android long before it was a builtin feature on either Android or iOS.
My primary phone is an iPhone. I have both iPad and Android tablets and had Android tablets in the past.
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uesc_marathon
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Do you honestly identify yourself with Zuckerberg and the billionaires? Like you think of them as 'us'?
Zuckerberg is not your friend. His money does not go to you. It goes to him, a dragon hoarding absurd, obscene amounts of wealth. His wealth does not benefit you, his wealth is locked away in his vaults. I guarantee you that you pay more in taxes than he does, he does not improve your life or benefit your country in the slightest. Zuckerberg does not know you exist. If you stood in front of his face he would not see you.
Zuckerberg is not 'Americans'. He's a billionaire shit who made the world a worse place for you and everyone else. Grow the fuck up and learn how the world works.
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Is this just a propaganda bot, or do people actually believe this sort of drivel?
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This reply isn't constructive, I just wanted to let you know I'm laughing at you
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Propaganda bots mostly try to post stuff they think people will believe, and those people then go and spread it in a mindless fashion, so the distinction is a fine one
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Do any of them qualify as Gatekeepers under the DMA?
Have you raised a complaint with the relevant Commissioner's Office?
Not many EU companies are large enough to be Gatekeepers, and some people choose the cynical interpretation of that fact to imply that American companies are being targeted, but you may ask yourself why for example, Google hasn't been fined, even though it's massive in the EU. Ebay? Paypal? Netflix? Etc..
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The fundamental issue is that there seems to be only room for a duo. Windows/Mac, Android/iOS. Seems like most OSs have ended up that way through it the history of compute. There's always niche stuff -- you can get a Pinephone, if you want, and just do everything in a browser, and desktop Linux, well, it's been "the year of desktop Linux" longer than my kids have been alive.
I think that's actually a huge part of the problem -- there's a lot of apps that don't need to be apps. Sure, like, games and stuff? Doesn't really work. But my insurance doesn't need an app. A proper mobile website would work just fine
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The question isnt whether this fine is enough to punish them, but whether this is enough to get them to comply with the law.
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Most people don't even get scammed by getting conned into installing fake apps. They get scammed by getting convinced to transfer money to someone they shouldn't or having their credentials and OTP phished, which doesn't even depend on the kind of phone the victim is using.
My non-techie parents have been safely using Androids (for them, Samsung is Android) for over a decade, while I am equally able to side-load useful apps that I find. Simply leave the switch to side-load apps disabled.
On my phone, I have F-Droid, through which I have installed FairEmail, Joplin, Feeder, Scrambled Exif, Element Secure Messenger, Antennapod... Just to name a few. Perfectly useful apps that have nothing to do with piracy.
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Linux is more popular than MacOS (on steam). And both are far far behind windows in popularity :/
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
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"implementing measures that reinforce the dependence of business users and consumers on their platforms"
Otherwise known as "engaging in business". Imagine the horror of wanting more people to use your product. What evil monstrosity will these horrific companies invent next? Profit? I shudder to think.
Otherwise known as "engaging in business". Imagine the horror of wanting more people to use your product. What evil monstrosity will these horrific companies invent next? Profit? I shudder to think.
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Unpopular opinion here, but the EU is exactly what happens when a government thinks it knows how to run someone else's business.
I won't call Apple perfect by any means, and some public pressure on them does get them to budge their policies. (See also reduced percentages on in-app purchases.)
I like that my Apple mobile devices are in a walled garden, and that, for instance, I can run a non-spying version of Meta's Facebook app, because it's on the App Store and under security scrutiny, rather than only available through Mark Zuckerburg'sSpyware "Freedom" Emporium™. Meta doesn't get a unique identifier for my phone. And my credit card purchases are going through Apple, not some shady business that is going to sell my card number.
If I wanted sideloading, a phone that is prone to security holes, carrier-installed crapware that is probably full of security holes and can't be removed, and a mediocre user experience, I'd buy an Android phone from Samsung and save some bucks.
I think Apple is trying to thread the needle of providing more openness while protecting consumers, because in my mind, Apple's number one Unique Selling Proposition is not stellar hardware, it's security and privacy. They're the one player in this whole mess who doesn't make money throwing its customers under the bus to advertisers (hi, Alphabet, your name wasn't mentioned here yet). The fact that Meta and Epic whine and complain to mommy EC about it is proof that Apple's doing the right thing.
I won't suffer much because I'm not stupid enough to install every App Store or sideload malware, but someone's grandmother can be duped, and while Apple is fighting against that I'll be on their side.
I won't call Apple perfect by any means, and some public pressure on them does get them to budge their policies. (See also reduced percentages on in-app purchases.)
I like that my Apple mobile devices are in a walled garden, and that, for instance, I can run a non-spying version of Meta's Facebook app, because it's on the App Store and under security scrutiny, rather than only available through Mark Zuckerburg's
If I wanted sideloading, a phone that is prone to security holes, carrier-installed crapware that is probably full of security holes and can't be removed, and a mediocre user experience, I'd buy an Android phone from Samsung and save some bucks.
I think Apple is trying to thread the needle of providing more openness while protecting consumers, because in my mind, Apple's number one Unique Selling Proposition is not stellar hardware, it's security and privacy. They're the one player in this whole mess who doesn't make money throwing its customers under the bus to advertisers (hi, Alphabet, your name wasn't mentioned here yet). The fact that Meta and Epic whine and complain to mommy EC about it is proof that Apple's doing the right thing.
I won't suffer much because I'm not stupid enough to install every App Store or sideload malware, but someone's grandmother can be duped, and while Apple is fighting against that I'll be on their side.
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Which we all know is Europe’s inability to compete in the global economy.
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It is interesting the EU tries to protect consumers by preventing Apple from anonymizing app purchases, vetting apps to discourage tracking, forcing clarification of when subscribing as to the terms and durations and remove dark patterns when canceling subscriptions. I guess European companies are far less evil than American ones and deserve the extra leeway. (Unless… the EU still wants all that for free, but only enforced on the largest companies).
That said while a cut of subscription revenue is super tasty the EU says no and Apple should back off. Easy fix is just add a no App Store revenue surcharge to phones sold in the EU and call it a day. Allow side loading and just drop a constant green badge on side loaded apps to remind the installer to be a little extra wary when using it making it easy for Apple to say… side loaded and not our problem to limit the extra support costs of redirecting those angry customers who insist on giving their credit card to any app that asks. EU customer wants cheaper phone then buy in America. Apple gets to obey the law, customers get the choice of working around local laws, and drop shippers make bank. Offer side loading unlock fee for customers who buy non-EU phone. Figure $500 to cover whatever upcoming penalties the EU makes up when they got everything they wanted.
That said while a cut of subscription revenue is super tasty the EU says no and Apple should back off. Easy fix is just add a no App Store revenue surcharge to phones sold in the EU and call it a day. Allow side loading and just drop a constant green badge on side loaded apps to remind the installer to be a little extra wary when using it making it easy for Apple to say… side loaded and not our problem to limit the extra support costs of redirecting those angry customers who insist on giving their credit card to any app that asks. EU customer wants cheaper phone then buy in America. Apple gets to obey the law, customers get the choice of working around local laws, and drop shippers make bank. Offer side loading unlock fee for customers who buy non-EU phone. Figure $500 to cover whatever upcoming penalties the EU makes up when they got everything they wanted.
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Maybe they can lobby the government to quickly add some more badly thought through tariffs on the EU.
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But it’s the job of regulators to make that room. Solve the hard problems.
They need to understand why a third OS doesn’t exist and if one did exist, the barriers that would stop consumers from purchasing a device with that OS, and fix those things.
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The barriers that exist are "it's hard enough already to make iOS and Android apps." It's not a consumer problem, it's a developer problem. There's plenty of apps that are iOS only or Android only, right? Should developers have to make apps for both platforms? The third one?
The only way to force a 3rd entrant into the market is to have a government sponsored OS.
Or, fuck, force people to make apps for PinePhones. It's not as though those don't exist, right? I mean, if everyone so concerned about duopoly bought and used one, maybe they'd have more of the market.
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"Sure, at this point Apple are so dominant that it would require major regulation to make it viable for a new Android/iOS competitor."
They just have to keep on banning Chinese companies. Soon the competitor will be right there!
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