Texas requires sensitive info just to check weather and sports scores, Apple says.
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Apple and Google reluctantly comply with Texas age verification law
- Thread starter JournalBot
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I'm angry at the politicians for their stupid laws, and I'm also angry at the tech companies for having made such shitty (or nonexistent) parental controls that they don't have a good defense for the "Think of the children!" argument.
Seriously, as a parent I've used a bunch of them. Microsoft, Apple, Google, Meta, NINTENDO - they all suck in various ways. To give an example, only one Meta account can manage a child account. Which is the account used for example with the Quest vr headset. Want both parents to be able to manage what content their kids can see? Too bad. Parents get divorced and now the kid needs to be transferred to the parent with custody's account? Too bad.
At some point, you have to wonder how much is incompetence, how much is laziness, and how much is that they really don't have their heart in making it harder for kids to use their services. And it gave the stupid politicians much more leverage over them.
Seriously, as a parent I've used a bunch of them. Microsoft, Apple, Google, Meta, NINTENDO - they all suck in various ways. To give an example, only one Meta account can manage a child account. Which is the account used for example with the Quest vr headset. Want both parents to be able to manage what content their kids can see? Too bad. Parents get divorced and now the kid needs to be transferred to the parent with custody's account? Too bad.
At some point, you have to wonder how much is incompetence, how much is laziness, and how much is that they really don't have their heart in making it harder for kids to use their services. And it gave the stupid politicians much more leverage over them.
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Improving re-election chances. Hasn't hurt them so far, therefore, go further until it becomes problem.
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Not sure I'd trust Proton to stand up to the government, given that its CEO has supported Trump's staffing choices.
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This is going to be a big problem for larger families. I have 5 kids, and I recently had to remove my wife from the Family Sharing group because Apple only allows 6 people total in a family. Now I have to buy multiple app subscriptions to cover my family. I wish that Apple had a way of just allowing me to pay a little extra to have a larger family. It's a real pain because now she can't participate the same as before with Apple Cash, iCloud+ Backups, and Find My no longer shows her where the kids are, etc.
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Now we just need a credit card backed by crypto that lets you pick a random billing address.
(Ugh, did I just suggest crypto as a legitimate solution for something? I feel dirty.)
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Yes, but they've been talking about leaving due to a proposed law that would affect VPNs. https://www.vice.com/en/article/pro...witzerland-if-controversial-swiss-law-passes/
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Unless you want to fly. Real ID is required for getting on a plane.
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It's the bare minimum to make it pass a "bar" / "hurdle" of approval. Why would they make it easier for you to use? That costs time and money and doesn't make Zuck any richer.
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No, and I wish people would stop saying that (not trying to pick on you specifically, honest, but I keep seeing this repeated literally everywhere). Real ID is one way to board a plane. Another is a passport or passport card (I have both). You can opt entirely out of the entire Real ID shenanigans, if you really want to.
How long that will matter is another thing entirely. But thus far no one except CBP and TSA give any crap what my passport ID is and everyone and their brother has my DL number.
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You're going to have a tough time convincing me the average IQ of Congress is even three digits.
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XSportSeeker
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Doesn't surprise me, but just to note: a big part of the reason why the US is going through all the sh*t it's going through right now, has all to do with businesses and people "reluctantly complying", which is both meaningless and why democracies fall.
It doesn't matter if corporations and people say they "have principles" against stuff like that, when they comply they are actively supporting the measure, period. Google and Apple are fine with paying large sums of money to this government, bowing to it, giving golden trinkets, and doing whatever is asked of them to do, for the exact same reason they do the same in China - because principles and criticism does not matter to them in the face of profits, of speculative market demands, of maintaining their monopolies over what should be public essential services.
And yes, this age verification law will do the exact opposite of what the propaganda about it says will do, which is already being proven in the UK.
Kids and teens will seek other means to access adult material, which will leave them more exposed than before, feeding off an illegal market that is already causing lots of damage as is. Privacy takes another step to the grave when these age gating systems leak or get hacked for data, which paints a target on both children and adults for organized crime, scammers and blackmailers. Google and Apple know full well about this, they are not morons, but they act coy around the subject because they already decided to comply "We take costumer privacy, security and rights very seriously around here" yadda yadda meaningless corporate PR speech everyone already knows about.
Everyone who has been a child or a teen through the Internet age knows about this. Well, even those who were childs and teens before the Internet age. But this is the sort of puritanical ignorant sh*t you get when you elect ignorant puritanical idiots raising populist banners. Malicious legislation that does not care about consequences, as shallow as their discourses. There are more than a few nations that are about to get a lesson on neo-fascism, and it's going to be ugly. The only question is if there are still people around with enough critical reasoning left to understand that some things that are going bad are directly related to this form of governance.
It doesn't matter if corporations and people say they "have principles" against stuff like that, when they comply they are actively supporting the measure, period. Google and Apple are fine with paying large sums of money to this government, bowing to it, giving golden trinkets, and doing whatever is asked of them to do, for the exact same reason they do the same in China - because principles and criticism does not matter to them in the face of profits, of speculative market demands, of maintaining their monopolies over what should be public essential services.
And yes, this age verification law will do the exact opposite of what the propaganda about it says will do, which is already being proven in the UK.
Kids and teens will seek other means to access adult material, which will leave them more exposed than before, feeding off an illegal market that is already causing lots of damage as is. Privacy takes another step to the grave when these age gating systems leak or get hacked for data, which paints a target on both children and adults for organized crime, scammers and blackmailers. Google and Apple know full well about this, they are not morons, but they act coy around the subject because they already decided to comply "We take costumer privacy, security and rights very seriously around here" yadda yadda meaningless corporate PR speech everyone already knows about.
Everyone who has been a child or a teen through the Internet age knows about this. Well, even those who were childs and teens before the Internet age. But this is the sort of puritanical ignorant sh*t you get when you elect ignorant puritanical idiots raising populist banners. Malicious legislation that does not care about consequences, as shallow as their discourses. There are more than a few nations that are about to get a lesson on neo-fascism, and it's going to be ugly. The only question is if there are still people around with enough critical reasoning left to understand that some things that are going bad are directly related to this form of governance.
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Everyone knows that weather forecasts are a gateway to the evils of traffic reports and and tv schedules.
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I like apples approach. Under 18 accounts have to be approved by a parent in the family. They just ditch the web browser age verification for adult content too and just pass this flag in.
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Do Apple and Google provide an easy way for developers to opt out of this and not distribute their app in Texas?
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That data will be sold and purchased by maga assholes to be used to target kids, other parents and how they raise their kids, and companies they don’t like.
And things before all the breaches, and that data being bought and sold by predators on dark web marketplaces. Parents should be extremely worried by these terrible laws.
And things before all the breaches, and that data being bought and sold by predators on dark web marketplaces. Parents should be extremely worried by these terrible laws.
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Do yourself a favor and get a passport instead. Don’t feed into the Real ID movement. Bonus: you have a way out if everything goes to shit.
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sure seems the party of "freedom" loves themselves fascist activity to control others freedom...
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Can developers just set things up so their apps are "unavailable for download in Texas"?
Also, what about the web? Seems like under 18's should need parental approval to download a browser in Texas, given the supposed concerns of Texan lawmakers.
Also, what about the web? Seems like under 18's should need parental approval to download a browser in Texas, given the supposed concerns of Texan lawmakers.
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I don’t have a Real ID. My driver’s license was issued before that was a thing. The summer before last I flew to NYC and from there to the UK.
I do however have a passport. That is a valid form of ID to board even domestic flights.
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At least here in Washington State, you still have the option of an Enhanced Driver's License (WA's Real ID compliant license) or a regular one that's not. Pretty sure other states also give you the option.
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Could you help me understand why giving the government all your details to get a Real ID is bad but giving the government all your details to get a passport is not?
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caution live frogs
Ars Centurion
My kid has an iPhone. He's under 18. Apple knows this. His account is restricted to specific levels of safety. Purchases and app installs get flagged for parental review before proceeding.
All of that works, already, without Apple needing to tell our state how old our kid is.
I work with a lot of kids who have Gmail accounts. Google already knows they are under a specific age, and blocks use of email in some instances (e.g. adding to group mailing lists hosted by Google). This happens already, without Google needing to tell the state how old the kid is.
If you want to enforce age verification, fine, make the app stores prevent certain actions for users with birthdates indicating they're under 18. But this should not be reported to anyone else, and no information other than a birthdate should be needed. Hell, requesting month-year should be sufficient, it doesn't need to be granular. No one is magically protected from their own stupid decisions the instant they turn 18. If people want to lie about their age, that's on them - if they're underage their parents should be accountable for them (don't these people hang EVERYTHING on the idea that the parents are in charge of every aspect of their kid's lives?)
All of that works, already, without Apple needing to tell our state how old our kid is.
I work with a lot of kids who have Gmail accounts. Google already knows they are under a specific age, and blocks use of email in some instances (e.g. adding to group mailing lists hosted by Google). This happens already, without Google needing to tell the state how old the kid is.
If you want to enforce age verification, fine, make the app stores prevent certain actions for users with birthdates indicating they're under 18. But this should not be reported to anyone else, and no information other than a birthdate should be needed. Hell, requesting month-year should be sufficient, it doesn't need to be granular. No one is magically protected from their own stupid decisions the instant they turn 18. If people want to lie about their age, that's on them - if they're underage their parents should be accountable for them (don't these people hang EVERYTHING on the idea that the parents are in charge of every aspect of their kid's lives?)
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Google and Apple hold all the cards so why fold? OK Texas, we just won't sell phones in your state anymore. There are only 2 players in the game. What's Texas going to do then?
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So... This will be a means by which apple or Google can forget lock in families..
People under 18 will need to join a family plan...
What if the parents don't use apple, or vice versa?
Families will be forced to use the same tech.
This sucks.
Vpn time.
People under 18 will need to join a family plan...
What if the parents don't use apple, or vice versa?
Families will be forced to use the same tech.
This sucks.
Vpn time.
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Has it changed? Ages ago, I made my personal (non-child) account and have simply used iTunes Gift Cards (or whatever they are named now) ever since, no CC needed.
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How about you develop an RFC for this and then try to implement the RFC on a simple device (e.g. a Bluetooth enabled electric toothbrush). At that point, you will discover that the problem is an "easy problem".
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I think Texas is one of the few states that doesn't; you have to get a Real ID there if you get any ID at all.
Washington is a bit unique because they offer an Enhanced License, which is available to citizens only, or a non-federal ID. They don't have a Real ID option for permanent residents.
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Most US states still don't have any digital form of ID. Currently the list of states that have it is Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Maryland, Montana, New Mexico, North Dakota, and Ohio. California has a pilot program but it's not fully implemented. (When I lived there I had mine set up, but I couldn't actually use it anywhere.)
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There is one already; it is technically known as Oklahoma.
Texans, since your fascist governor sent so many buses of immigrants already in order to fuck with us, the rest of you can stay home and work on getting rid of him– we apparently already got the good ones.
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Once again Texas continues to grow as the Big Brother conservatives keep warning us about. The ultimate nanny state for drooling Republican voters who just want to be told what to think and do.
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Or not, this is from yesterday:
US anti-fascism expert blocked from flying to Spain at airport
Rutgers University professor who published book on antifa was informed at boarding gate that his trip was cancelled
Who needs exit visas?
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If it was an attempt by the government to interfere with him leaving, they did a bad job of it, because he was able to fly out the next day.
My money is on either an airline fuckup, or someone getting hold of his reservation number and deciding to mess with his plans.
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Okay, so you think it's more difficult than I do. So are you saying "it's too hard, it will never happen?" Because the alternative is what we are seeing unfolding in real-time: a piecemeal response that creates extra expense, confusion, and ineffectiveness for everybody involved. It would be far better to work with what already exists. Secure digital wallets exist. Digital IDs exist. Biometric authentication exists. A non-invasive method for an app or website to ask a device or OS "Is this an adult?" does not seem a terribly big leap from there.
Sure, but if device/OS makers got ahead of the obviously approaching wave (which has already broken in many places!), they would have an existing method to point to that is obviously much better for all concerned parties. Everybody's information would reside securely on a device they already own and it would be up to the individual to decide whether or not they wanted to let an app/website/service check it. And no PII gets sent back! It's wins all round and puts the onus where it belongs: on the jurisdictions that are demanding age-gating in the first place.
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