An inner-speech decoder reveals some mental privacy issues

Random_stranger

Ars Praefectus
5,301
Subscriptor
Every job I've ever had has required me to get drug tested, so yes, it's common as dirt. The last one I had would "randomly screen" people too during the entire employment period, really paranoid stuff too like "when the call comes for you to go in, you MUST be there within 15 minutes", even when it wasn't feasible to, under the bizarre assumption someone was smuggling a pee bag or something. Frankly, they were this close to requiring a witness to peeing in a plastic bottle, and I think only unionization prevented it from going that far.

So which industry is this? My wife and I have both been employed 30+ years and not once have we had to take a drug test, AFAIK.
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)
So which industry is this? My wife and I have both been employed 30+ years and not once have we had to take a drug test, AFAIK.
As I said, literally every job I've had. From those first fast food jobs to working for computer repair and so on. No exceptions, and in the plac I worked, every employee there was subject to it. I won't say what specifically because I don't want to reveal too many identifying details about myself, but that has been my experience. Every time, without exception, if they're a big enterprise, they ask for a drug test before hiring. I just accepted it as normal. I should specify I live in the U.S., and maybe some places have stopped doing that since then, but it's certainly been the norm for me. Don't get me wrong, I don't LIKE that state of affairs, and it's just plain fear mongering (frankly so long as someone stays sober ON THE JOB I really don't care what they're up to in their spare time), but it's been my experience.
 
Upvote
3 (3 / 0)

wagnerrp

Ars Legatus Legionis
31,800
Subscriptor
Safe phrases are fine and all, but a real person's mind wanders or gets distracted a lot so they would likely think a lot of things they didn't want out before they activate the safe phrase.
That's why it's an unsafe phrase. The system discards all data before the unsafe phrase.
 
Upvote
1 (1 / 0)
Safe phrases are fine and all, but a real person's mind wanders or gets distracted a lot so they would likely think a lot of things they didn't want out before they activate the safe phrase.
You got it reversed. The phrase is for unlocking the speech, not locking it.
 
Upvote
2 (2 / 0)
Dream recorder from Spirits Within, here we come! :cool:
That Final Fantasy movie that tried to look photorealistic and now looks absolutely painful to watch, and also had absolutely nothing to do with ANY Final Fantasy story whatsoever and felt more like a cheesy Hollywood action movie?

I remember reviewers not even understanding what "Final Fantasy" was a reference to, since it was a pretty niche video game series. Heck it still is. No, every gamer knows what the series is, I mean normal people who's main exposure to pop culture is movie theaters. I'm talking "man on the street" who if you show them Link they'll say "Lord of the Rings? Elf guy?" They know who Mario is. That's about the best you can expect.
 
Upvote
1 (1 / 0)

Wubbafet

Seniorius Lurkius
5
I feel we are on step away from the people of Kakrafoon in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

“As a result, the people of Kakrafoon were sentenced by Galactic tribunal to a curse of telepathy. Any thought, if not articulated and verbalized immediately, would thenceforward be broadcast for everyone to hear across Kakrafoon's smug neighbouring planets.”

Definitely not “Mostly Harmless “
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)
I feel we are on step away from the people of Kakrafoon in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

“As a result, the people of Kakrafoon were sentenced by Galactic tribunal to a curse of telepathy. Any thought, if not articulated and verbalized immediately, would thenceforward be broadcast for everyone to hear across Kakrafoon's smug neighbouring planets.”

Definitely not “Mostly Harmless “
Kakrafoon is ALMOST a serious sounding sci-fi planet name, but the "foon" part adds the funniness factor. Excellent word smithing there.
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)

somechar

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
130
Subscriptor
So which industry is this? My wife and I have both been employed 30+ years and not once have we had to take a drug test, AFAIK.

In the U.S., pre-employment drug screens have been exceedingly common for a long, long time. For regular folks, anyway. If you work in a field or position with enough prestige, of course they're not going to test you. It's all about leverage. Once a potential employee attains a sufficient amount of leverage, suddenly companies don't care about drug screens, because they don't want to piss off someone they need.

With that said, COVID changed the calculus of drug screens. Companies desperate for grunt-level labor learned not to care as much that Bob Shelfstocker likes to smoke the occasional jay and also discovered that they could save the money they were spending on drug screens.
 
Upvote
1 (1 / 0)

Scribit

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
106
Americans make me laugh, you think you know gestapo? Imagine being reported for not having a TV license and possessing a screen (UK). Imagine being reported for a salty meme and being arrested (UK, China). Imagine getting cut off and flipping the bird and being arrested (EU Mediterranean countries with insult laws). Imagine practicing your religion, like Islam, and being arrested (China). Imagine showing your hair and being beaten almost to death (Iran, Saudi Arabia). I’d take your mean kids any day than my country’s leaders tbh.
Conflating being required to pay for a TV license, which funds public TV programming, with being beaten to death for an alleged religious/morality infraction seems a bit of a stretch.
Yes it's a ~$200 a year per household tax by another name, but you can choose not to have a tv and not pay.
 
Upvote
3 (4 / -1)

Kaebla

Smack-Fu Master, in training
1
Conflating being required to pay for a TV license, which funds public TV programming, with being beaten to death for an alleged religious/morality infraction seems a bit of a stretch.
Yes it's a ~$200 a year per household tax by another name, but you can choose not to have a tv and not pay.
Created an account to say I suspect it's more of a death-by-a-thousand-cuts/principle kind-of thing. Sure you can choose to not have a TV, but it's an affront on your rights that the government is forcing you to do this anyway.

I would agree that pointless deportations and beating people to death may be just a tiny bit worse, perhaps, and that perhaps people should direct their frustrations elsewhere. I don't live in the UK so the point is moot anyway. But just because a lot of governments are 10^12 sucky doesn't mean that we should be complacent with (what I see as) garden-variety rights violations.
 
Upvote
-1 (0 / -1)

TheStargateIsReal

Smack-Fu Master, in training
87
Are you deporting citizens for showing up to a hardware store with the wrong skin color?
Yes, you clearly have no clue. Basically every middle eastern country uses job schemes to enslave africans and south Asians. North Africa skipped that part and just started enslaving sub saharans that crossed their bordered trying to get to Europe. East Asia is no better, try being a non white foreigner, and illegal? Just for get about it, you’ll be lucky to survive the prison or labor camp.
 
Upvote
1 (2 / -1)
There's also the question of legal acceptance. Polygraph pseudoscience isn't accepted by any courts, for example, because its translation of various physiological values into "lies" or "truths" is complete rubbish, and though they are still used in the private sector for things like job screening and monitoring - and even by police - they're strictly a tool for intimidation, with no ability to discern truth from falsehood. I suspect similar issues would be raised over any attempt to use devices like this in court, especially if done coercively and without consent or confirmation by the subject. When the subject says, "I didn't think that," how do you prove them wrong? The mapping from brain signals to interpretation as language seems pretty fraught without subject confirmation in the loop.
Once the magic box says 'guilty', how does the subject prove that they didn't think that? Because that's what the standard becomes every time law enforcement gets a new and improved magic 'guilty' box.
 
Upvote
1 (1 / 0)
Did anybody ever try to combine "enhanced interrogation" and parallel construction?
For the same person? Unlikely, but using "enhanced interrogation" to get information from one person so as to go after someone else (or know who else to go after) is exactly what such methods were created for. Once they have that illegally obtained information (regardless of source), parallel construction to hide where it came from is routine.
 
Upvote
1 (1 / 0)

Random_stranger

Ars Praefectus
5,301
Subscriptor
Yes, you clearly have no clue. Basically every middle eastern country uses job schemes to enslave africans and south Asians. North Africa skipped that part and just started enslaving sub saharans that crossed their bordered trying to get to Europe. East Asia is no better, try being a non white foreigner, and illegal? Just for get about it, you’ll be lucky to survive the prison or labor camp.

I was mostly referring to your "UK TV license is just as bad" statement. Very few people confuse the middle east with the US in terms of which has more freedoms.
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)

keddaw

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
190
I'm saying in this particular case, it would require someone developing technology for passively measuring the electrical activity of your brain with really good spatial resolution from a distance, and that that's already a hard problem when you're in a well-shielded room with the sensors in a fixed position relative to your head.

The "everyone gets a brain implant at birth" scenario would require a profound cultural shift towards being ok with ubiquitous surveillance and general discarding of the idea of consent, in which case the tech involved is the least of your problems. Technology can, and has acted as an enabling tool for a lot of bad stuff, but I don't think that something requiring invasive surgery is the same type of risk as things like facial recognition.

So, not saying we shouldn't think about the ethics of developing this technology, which I think is actually really important, but I also don't think the ubiquitous thought surveillance scenario is the most likely outcome of this kind of technology.

I also just don't think this would be worth it to the average authoritarian, because whether or not a person is guilty of something doesn't actually matter to them. They can just lie and they don't particularly care about getting caught.
Remember covid? Remember people's willingness to police other people's behavior and their demand for vaccine passports? Yeah, the majority of the populace are all too willing to sign themselves up for a dystopian future if it means others have to do it too and it promises them the illusion of security.
 
Upvote
-4 (0 / -4)
Remember covid? Remember people's willingness to police other people's behavior and their demand for vaccine passports? Yeah, the majority of the populace are all too willing to sign themselves up for a dystopian future if it means others have to do it too and it promises them the illusion of security.
Are you being serious right now? Stopping the spread of a plague requires that level of quarantine and that WAS the correct response, and in fact it didn't go far enough. Emergency situations like that require emergency measures, and that means mandating vaccines, though that era seems to be coming to an end if the weird old guy in charge of medicine has anything to say about it.
 
Upvote
1 (1 / 0)

keddaw

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
190
Are you being serious right now? Stopping the spread of a plague requires that level of quarantine and that WAS the correct response, and in fact it didn't go far enough. Emergency situations like that require emergency measures, and that means mandating vaccines, though that era seems to be coming to an end if the weird old guy in charge of medicine has anything to say about it.
I strenuously disagree. Quarantining the vulnerable was the correct response, quarantining healthy people was counterproductive. Mandating leaky vaccines while a virus is still spreading apparently causes mutations that render the vaccine pointless in short order.

However the point was people's willingness to give up their rights, and the rights of others, for the appearance of safety - look at airport security theatre after 9/11 when all you needed was a lock on the cockpit door.
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)
I strenuously disagree. Quarantining the vulnerable was the correct response, quarantining healthy people was counterproductive. Mandating leaky vaccines while a virus is still spreading apparently causes mutations that render the vaccine pointless in short order.

However the point was people's willingness to give up their rights, and the rights of others, for the appearance of safety - look at airport security theatre after 9/11 when all you needed was a lock on the cockpit door.
The two are not comparable. Had the quarantine actually been done properly, instead of the U.S. totally dropping the ball, maybe it wouldn't have progressed to the endemic level we see now. We've lost millions to this new disease, and it didn't need to be that way. This isn't security theater, this is science. You don't GET to disagree.
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)

wagnerrp

Ars Legatus Legionis
31,800
Subscriptor
I strenuously disagree. Quarantining the vulnerable was the correct response, quarantining healthy people was counterproductive.
That’s great, if you can identify the “healthy”, in real time. That’s great doesn’t work so well when a large portion of the infected are asymptomatic, or with symptoms so mild they ignore them, or with significant symptoms that conflict with their infectious lifestyle.

Mandating leaky vaccines while a virus is still spreading apparently causes mutations that render the vaccine pointless in short order.
Bullshit. The virus is mutating all on its own. Vaccines are not mutagenic. The most a vaccine can do is knock out more advantageous variations, and allow less advantageous ones to spread with less competition. The only way to stop a virus from mutating is to stomp it out quickly and completely, and we were unwilling to do that. We’re still unwilling to do that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote
1 (1 / 0)
That’s great, if you can identify the “healthy”, in real time. That’s great doesn’t work so well when a large portion of the infected are asymptomatic, or with symptoms so mild they ignore them, or with significant symptoms that conflict with their infectious lifestyle.


Bullshit. The virus is mutating all on its own. Vaccines are not mutagenic. The most a vaccine can do is knock out more advantageous variations, and allow less advantageous ones to spread with less competition. The only way to stop a virus from mutating is to stomp it out quickly and completely, and we were unwilling to do that. We’re still unwilling to do that.
Seems we've got an antivaxxer yet again... They're way too common these days, and the one thing the ones that visit ars have most in common is they commonly state "I'm not antivax BUT".
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)

keddaw

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
190
That’s great, if you can identify the “healthy”, in real time. That’s great doesn’t work so well when a large portion of the infected are asymptomatic, or with symptoms so mild they ignore them, or with significant symptoms that conflict with their infectious lifestyle.
By "healthy" I meant those at little risk from the virus. Statistically speaking only those with at least one severe comorbidity was at risk of serious long term adverse effects from Covid. The cost of locking everyone down, both monetarily and from a health perspective, is monumental.
 
Upvote
-2 (0 / -2)
By "healthy" I meant those at little risk from the virus. Statistically speaking only those with at least one severe comorbidity was at risk of serious long term adverse effects from Covid. The cost of locking everyone down, both monetarily and from a health perspective, is monumental.
Your notion of "individualism" doesn't work when it comes to pandemics. We as a society USED to understand this. We understood that such situations would require sacrifices, but instead you're ignoring the cost in human lives to live out this individualistic ideal of your's. Healthy people can still spread disease to the sick... when they BRING IT HOME, and there is NO way to tell who's more susceptible to the disease just by looking at them.

You have no clue what you're talking about, and what you were told to believe (no, these aren't your own thoughts, you're repeating bullet points), killed millions. Change your thinking. Individualism is not the solution to all of life's problems.
 
Upvote
0 (0 / 0)