Amazon’s Chinese sellers to raise prices or quit US market as tariffs hit 145%

"It'll be very hard for anyone to survive in the US market," Chinese group says.

See full article...

 

[Snark218]

Economics is a real field. It's just based on a fuzzy foundation: people's behavior.

That being said, there is no "Nobel Prize in Economics". There is a "Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences".

I mean, so is psychology and philosophy, and those are valid fields of study. But economics does way better explaining than it does predicting, and it has a tendency to vastly overestimate the utility of its models on the grounds that they're math and math is objective and precise, never mind that their assumptions are a basket case.

 

[muddledzen]

I mean, so is psychology and philosophy, and those are valid fields of study. But economics does way better explaining than it does predicting, and it has a tendency to vastly overestimate the utility of its models on the grounds that they're math and math is objective and precise, never mind that their assumptions are a basket case.

As someone with a higher ed degree in philosophy I'd have to argue with the concept that it's a valid field of study. /s

 

[dmarzio]

Everyone here is sort of celebrating the fact that these Chinese sellers won't sell on Amazon anymore, which will result in less junk on Amazon. Let's not forget though, that it's going to raise the price for the "name brand" stuff as well, especially in electronics. It's not like these tariffs only target the cheaply made stuff. I doubt there is very little on Amazon that doesn't have parts or manufacturing that deal with China, and, if not, the 10% across the board tariff is still in place.

 

[ColdWetDog]

Economics is a real field. It's just based on a fuzzy foundation: people's behavior.

That being said, there is no "Nobel Prize in Economics". There is a "Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences".

That is true but most news outlets call it a 'Nobel Prize' (like the 'Nobel Peace Prize').

Of course, Trump is gunning for both of those. He's already indicated he should get the latter.

 

[DarthSlack]

Replace the stock ticker in Times Square with a tariff ticker.

We're gonna need a bigger ticker.

 

[adespoton]

I'm already seeing quite a few discounted items from my Amazon wishlist in the past couple of days, they must be pushing to get rid of stock to the rest of the world, now that it's harder to sell to the US.

Indeed, I'm seeing the same thing. Stuff that was previously "currently not available in your country" is now available at discounted rates.

 

[Erbium68]

The Nobel Prize in Economics has always annoyed me. Might as well have a Nobel Prize in Aromatherapy.

Well, not really. The problem is that economics is at about the stage physics was at the start of the 19th century.

Only at the start of the 19th century people weren't trying to build military fighter jets with integrated avionics, whereas banks and governments today are trying to do the equivalent with the economic tools available.

Or to put it another way, "Ugg invent wheel. Now Ugg start business, call it Porsche."

 

[ColdWetDog]

Well, not really. The problem is that economics is at about the stage physics was at the start of the 19th century.

Only at the start of the 19th century people weren't trying to build military fighter jets with integrated avionics, whereas banks and governments today are trying to do the equivalent with the economic tools available.

Or to put it another way, "Ugg invent wheel. Now Ugg start business, call it Porsche."

Where is Harry Seldon when we need him?

 

[Maestro4k]

Goodbye electronics repairability, goodbye retro handheld hobby.

Thanks Trumpers, you got rid of the pronouns in the bio and all it cost was a big hit to standard of living and a giant tax hike. I said it before, and I'll repeat it, you're the best.

If Trump doesn't back down on them and especially if he keeps adding more and more to them¹ you can also add "Goodbye Black Friday" this year. Most of those special deals Walmart, Target, etc. have for Black Friday each year come from China.

And pretty soon you can also say "Goodbye Dollar Tree," since they've reported in the past that between 41% to 43% of their products are from China. (Same will likely happen to Dollar General as well.)

¹ It's clear Trump thinks a big enough number will get China to back down, but I doubt even 1,000,000% tariffs would do that. In fact the higher they go, the more China's going to dig in its heels and refuse to budge. It's probably already about saving face for them and they aren't going to lose face just because Trump is throwing a tantrum.

 

[ktmglen]

Ha, the dog harness my wife bought is this brand. I can't help but call it out every time I see it.

One of my friends has the same for his dog! It was memorable enough that I took a picture with my phone of the harness and logo in case I ever need it for a meme.

 

[Case]

Everyone here is sort of celebrating the fact that these Chinese sellers won't sell on Amazon anymore, which will result in less junk on Amazon. Let's not forget though, that it's going to raise the price for the "name brand" stuff as well, especially in electronics. It's not like these tariffs only target the cheaply made stuff. I doubt there is very little on Amazon that doesn't have parts or manufacturing that deal with China, and, if not, the 10% across the board tariff is still in place.

Yep. Silver linings are good and all that, but there is a cloud.

Mental exercises--name some companies on Amazon that won't be affected by tariffs, particularly in the tech space.

 

[ktmglen]

I'll miss Anker devices.

I enjoyed those along with BTF Lighting's LED strips and Waveshare's LCD displays for various hobby-grade electronics projects.

The damage won't be limited to the Chinese brands though; it's going to hit the large US brands that make their products in China and sell on Amazon too.

 

[Dano40]

Feel free to disagree with me, but given how often here where I am, I see common-house-use-Chinese-garbage-tier-quality-item in a local store for $10 and then see on Amazon/AliExpress/Temu/other exactly the same one for $1 - yes, the actual scam stuff is really bad for people, considering how many people rely on super-cheap Chinese stuff to make it safely to the end of the month without destroying their bank account, I think this will do significantly more harm than good.

Walmart and Dollar Tree, along with their customers live off of all of that cheap stuff even Donald Trump has all his trinkets for his business Imported from China and Vietnam.

 

[Snark218]

If Trump doesn't back down on them and especially if he keeps adding more and more to them¹ you can also add "Goodbye Black Friday" this year. Most of those special deals Walmart, Target, etc. have for Black Friday each year come from China.

And pretty soon you can also say "Goodbye Dollar Tree," since they've reported in the past that between 41% to 43% of their products are from China. (Same will likely happen to Dollar General as well.)

¹ It's clear Trump thinks a big enough number will get China to back down, but I doubt even 1,000,000% tariffs would do that. In fact the higher they go, the more China's going to dig in its heels and refuse to budge. It's probably already about saving face for them and they aren't going to lose face just because Trump is throwing a tantrum.

China already has a giant cultural chip on its shoulder about getting bullied economically by Western powers. Most of us don't know the first fucking thing about the Boxer Rebellion and the foreign concessions and treaty ports and so on, but they have not forgotten, and their rise as a great power is in large part motivated by "no other nation will ever do that to us again, ever." Face is a big part of this, no doubt, but this is about national self-image, at this point, and not without historic justification.

 

[hillspuck]

Gonna miss LI2HLSU4TECH, but maybe XIZNYLEYTEK can start shipping from somewhere else and stick around.

I thought it had been stated that the tariffs were based on country of manufacture, not country of export.

Edit: Yep, here it is. It's Country of Origin, which is unrelated to where it's shipped from:
https://flavorcloud.com/understanding-country-of-origin/

 

[Maestro4k]

If Donny is cleaning up the amazon flea market minefield, does that mean i need to find a red hat?

Nope, because most listings for MAGA hats are for hats made in China and it's questionable that Trump's official ones are actually made in the US. At best they're stitched together in the US from entirely imported materials.

 

[mpfaff]

I used to think this way. But, then I realized two things:

1. The ruling class is us. Just the group of us that happen to control material wealth at the moment. For all the blather about rising inquality, that comes and goes, just like money.
2. We used to have jobs provided by those evil oppressors, but they moved them overseas because the incentives of free trade favor that. Putting up barriers incentivizes having the jobs be domestic instead. The people who immediately counter by saying "well robots" miss the point. There will always be more jobs. The question is who is the most economic employee -- where that person is. Barriers make it more desirable to have that person be domestic.

The left's propaganda has been better for so long that in circles like Ars, it's become accepted wisdom. This has happened while the whole country's working population has been hollowed out. The left is simply wrong and won't admit it, and so are the technocrats here.

We have jobs now. Unemployment is low, factories have a hard time hiring right now with less factories here than overseas. The "hollowed out" work population is a talking point from the 80s and 90s, the workforce moved on since then. The people who lost their job at the local plant 35 years ago are retired now, their kids are working somewhere else. Who is going to work at the factories of Trump's dreams that would come here?

Trump's brain is broken, he remembers shit from the 80s and struggles with keeping up with today. He still whines about low flow toilets and has an idea of how people work that come from 60s sitcoms. Know what people need? Shit they can afford. Know what Trump is trying to eliminate with his giant tax hike? Shit people can afford.

 

[sword_9mm]

The ‘single most dangerous enemy’ you have is the criminal in the Oval Office.

Nah. We have like 80 million dangerous enemies in this country. That oaf is just the next up in a line of cancerous elected officials.

 

[feeverte]

I stocked up on spare parts for my 3D printers, along with filament and resin ahead of the tariffs.

While there are non-Chinese alternatives in the consumer 3D printer space (looking at you Prusa and Lulzbot) all mine are made by Chinese companies - Creality and Elegoo. My preferred filament (Overture) and resin (Siraya Tech) are also Chinese.

 

[Snark218]

I used to think this way. But, then I realized two things:

1. The ruling class is us. Just the group of us that happen to control material wealth at the moment. For all the blather about rising inquality, that comes and goes, just like money.
2. We used to have jobs provided by those evil oppressors, but they moved them overseas because the incentives of free trade favor that. Putting up barriers incentivizes having the jobs be domestic instead. The people who immediately counter by saying "well robots" miss the point. There will always be more jobs. The question is who is the most economic employee -- where that person is. Barriers make it more desirable to have that person be domestic.

The left's propaganda has been better for so long that in circles like Ars, it's become accepted wisdom. This has happened while the whole country's working population has been hollowed out. The left is simply wrong and won't admit it, and so are the technocrats here.

You got convinced of two things that actively work against your interests, by people whose interests are served by your believing this bullshit.

1. Who's us? No "us" in this thread controls any but a minuscule fraction of the wealth. You don't control enough wealth to count as the ruling class, and nobody on this thread or even on this site does. Do not delude yourself that you matter or that your interests are the same as that of the ruling class.

2. Unemployment is, still, incredibly low at 4%. That's as close to full employment as it is practically possible to achieve. We have jobs. They're different jobs than the ones that got offshored. Some of those jobs pay worse, largely because collective bargaining has been dismantled. Some of those jobs pay better! Many of them are considerably easier on one's health and body than hard labor in a factory. So the working population has not been hollowed out. Some of the working population has chosen to wallow in grievance politics in the conviction that the jobs their grandfathers and fathers had were better or more dignified or more befitting their pride than the jobs they themselves work, and they have chosen to blame precisely the wrong people for that.

 

[poltroon]

The cheap weird knockoff direct sales from China on Amazon - I won't miss.

But. There are so many small, innovative companies that produce high quality designs in China, engineered and specified from the US, companies that have been sustainable for a long time serving their markets - and I'm afraid they will evaporate. They won't have the cash flow to get through a year of this nor to reposition, and the markets are too small to be of interest to entities that do. Items for niche hobbies and pastimes and specialized inexpensive tools will just not be a thing any more.

 

[jvanaken]

Yep. Silver linings are good and all that, but there is a cloud.

Mental exercises--name some companies on Amazon that won't be affected by tariffs, particularly in the tech space.

Book publishers?

(Just guessing - for all I know, the paper is imported from Canada...)

 

[nixonismyhero]

The ‘single most dangerous enemy’ you have is the criminal in the Oval Office.

Elon?

 

[poltroon]

"Building blocks for children that sell on Amazon for $20 that cost his company $3 to produce would now cost $7 including the tariff. Maintaining margins would require raising the price by at least 20 percent, and prices for higher-cost toys might see 50 percent increases, he said," according to Reuters. Miller said that if the tariffs aren't changed, "manufacturing that serves the US will have to be transferred to other countries like Vietnam or Mexico."

2 things here. First, your profit margins shrunk from 85% to 65%...cry me a fucking river. Second, a lot of the proposed benefit to higher tariffs is to bring manufacturing back to the USA, and it doesn't look like that's a realistic option when you can get things manufactured almost anywhere else for less.

Well, no. Because the $3 marginal cost to make the item in China doesn't pay the people who ship it, doesn't pay your US warehouse, doesn't pay your US designers or your US salespeople, and all those people need to eat. For a lot of companies in this space their true profit after they pay people is closer to 10%. Few of them were prepared to have huge new bills on products already ordered and even in some cases on the ocean when these tariffs dropped.

Some of these items can move to other countries - but on a timescale of months at least, years for many - and when tariff rates are changing daily that's a fool's errand.

The logistics involved are not trivial if your item needs anything nonstandard or high tolerance.

If you were to bring them to the US you'd have to pay your tariffs on your millions of dollars of tooling, assuming you own it.

 

[AFRider]

Don't forget RABBITGOO. Because when you need window film, buy from RABBITGOO.
(sarcasm. But also true!)

My dog's harness is from RabbitGoo. It is an excellent harness. My dog agility coach cracks up every time she sees it.

ETA: Glad to see other people defending the honor of RabbitGoo.

 

[poltroon]

Book publishers?

(Just guessing - for all I know, the paper is imported from Canada...)

Alas, a lot of books are printed in China, it turns out.

 

[s73v3r]

I used to think this way. But, then I realized two things:

1. The ruling class is us.

It absolutely the fuck is not.

2. We used to have jobs provided by those evil oppressors, but they moved them overseas because the incentives of free trade favor that.

No, they moved them overseas for profit.

The left's propaganda

No. You've just shown your bias.

The left is simply wrong

No, they're not.

 

[Mrbonk]

Silver lining (because I have to find the silver lining or it's too depressing): tariff's hitting goods that hard will at least pull more people into repair/repurpose type communities, and also 2nd hand which is a boon for the environment.

Slim silver lining overall, but it's there.

Except repair parts are already going up and price and will be just as fucked. Guess where all the parts are made? Definitely not the US of Assholes!

 

[chaos215bar2]

Silver lining (because I have to find the silver lining or it's too depressing): tariff's hitting goods that hard will at least pull more people into repair/repurpose type communities, and also 2nd hand which is a boon for the environment.

And where are you going to buy the parts for repairs?

I was just looking at repairing a watch with a somewhat obscure lithium battery. The only place I could find a matching replacement was on AliExpress for about $80. Much more than it should be, but not totally unreasonable all things considered.

Now? Because the executive order illegally bypasses the de minimis exemption for Chinese goods, that same battery apparently costs $200. Oh, and by the way, you'll be submitting your name, address, phone number, email address, and SSN to CBP via the carrier in order to get the shipment cleared through customs, and very likely paying some handsome brokerage fees on top of the $200 to get it all done. (Look up CBP form 2504, which is now required for all goods that don't qualify for de minimis.)

What these tariffs actually do is kill repairability, because importing obscure parts becomes cost and time prohibitive.

Carriers already have backlogs of thousands of packages which would have cleared customs easily just a week ago, and which now must be fully documented and paid. The old procedures were the way they were for a good reason.

 

[Rambie]

... made by Chinese companies - Creality and Elegoo

I have a new Elegoo 3D printer on order and I'm wondering when they'll cancel the order and raise prices to reorder.

 

[Mrbonk]

Everyone here is sort of celebrating the fact that these Chinese sellers won't sell on Amazon anymore, which will result in less junk on Amazon. Let's not forget though, that it's going to raise the price for the "name brand" stuff as well, especially in electronics. It's not like these tariffs only target the cheaply made stuff. I doubt there is very little on Amazon that doesn't have parts or manufacturing that deal with China, and, if not, the 10% across the board tariff is still in place.

And besides if all the Chinese sellers leave Amazon there will be little to nothing left. All the reputable non Chinese brands left Amazon ages ago. Amazon is literally 90% Chinese direct oem stuff. It's nearly impossible to find anything else.

 

[vidsurfr]

Economics is a complex subject and very difficult to learn about on a good day. People get degrees in it, spend their lives researching it, and still get stuff wrong about it-- constantly.

That's people who are interested or passionate about the subject. Your average voter? Good lord is it frustrating watching people suddenly trying to pretend they're conversant in one of the most complex disciplines on the planet.

One of my econ professors once said that if anyone confidently asserts anything after the sentence "I'm an economist", you should stop listening to them immediately. They could be right, wrong, or anything inbetween, but they almost certainly have no idea what they're talking about.

I get that it's super frustrating but there's a reason that people who actually know things about the topic couch their language carefully, hedge their bets, all the annoying things that make it hard to get a straight answer out of someone. It's because there usually isn't one.

So to circle all the way back around: we're getting the results of economic policies made by idiots who were voted in by idiots. Love this for all of us.

Reminds me of the joke:

A priest, an engineer and an economist are all stuck in a deep hole. The priest says not to worry, faith will get us out. The engineer says if they start digging, they can create steps to get out. The economist says, it's easy, first assume that we have a ladder...

 

[Scary Devil Monastery]

Well, not really. The problem is that economics is at about the stage physics was at the start of the 19th century.

...if the laws of physics changed a bit every time someone had a really bright or shady idea.

I.e. "Ugg lend spear to Ogg. Ogg give two shells with spear drawn on them to Ugg as reminder he owe Ugg two spears. Now Ugg has two spears, so Ugg and wife will go hunt wild boar".

Wonderful new invention to calculate debt as an asset. Unless Ogg fails to provide the spears upon which the boar kills and eats Ugg's wife.

Only at the start of the 19th century people weren't trying to build military fighter jets with integrated avionics, whereas banks and governments today are trying to do the equivalent with the economic tools available.

Or to put it another way, "Ugg invent wheel. Now Ugg start business, call it Porsche."

"Ogg persuade everyone wheel is square. Ugg's Porsche business is now about low dinner tables".

At least when you build a fighter jet no one decides to redesign thermodynamics or periodic table elements while you work.

"Ugg angry with Ogg. Wants smash Ogg with Big Giant Club. Big Giant Club was Small Twig yesterday but Ugg sure renaming it make it hit harder".

 

[Sylmeria]

Gonna miss LI2HLSU4TECH, but maybe XIZNYLEYTEK can start shipping from somewhere else and stick around.

The silver lining here is that if Chinese sellers pull out of Amazon, all the ripoff low-quality products by companies like ZVOWFRT and LZFDCQQ will go away. Yes, cheap stuff can be good, but we also all know how much absolute crap is shoveled onto Amazon by whack-a-mole companies selling products like "power bill savers" that contain a fake capacitor made of sand.

On the flipside those products will probably just pivot to scambaity sites where they can charge the higher prices to begin with. Krazy Ken is probably gearing up for a wild year.

Psshaaaw, whatever dawg, I stand by the MUID brand squishy duck light that I got on the cheap.

 

[vidsurfr]

I mean, so is psychology and philosophy, and those are valid fields of study. But economics does way better explaining than it does predicting, and it has a tendency to vastly overestimate the utility of its models on the grounds that they're math and math is objective and precise, never mind that their assumptions are a basket case.

Yeah, look up homo economicus.

The real issue is that some of the subtlety just lost when it passed on. Rational expectation theory doesn't say that people act in their own self interest, it says that people will act in their own self interest even when it's detrimental to the group if you incentivize them to act that way. I got my MBA at Northwestern in the early 80's, even there they glossed over that fact to explain why you need to give CEO's lots of equity to get them to act right.

 

[Don Reba]

Everyone here is sort of celebrating the fact that these Chinese sellers won't sell on Amazon anymore, which will result in less junk on Amazon. Let's not forget though, that it's going to raise the price for the "name brand" stuff as well, especially in electronics. It's not like these tariffs only target the cheaply made stuff. I doubt there is very little on Amazon that doesn't have parts or manufacturing that deal with China, and, if not, the 10% across the board tariff is still in place.

Plus, domestically produced items that have only Chinese competitors will raise prices by the same amount as the Chinese. There is no reason for them not to.

 

[Case]

Wait, are you saying the economy of the US is different from balancing your checkbook and making sure bills are paid each month? Because I've heard that one in some form for ages now. Sounds like you're trying that ivory tower librul stuff to confuse the issue!

And gotta love that nefarious "left". Even when Trump is running things with a belly-showing fearful Congress and (most of the time) a pet Court, it's always "the left" at fault. That takes some doing, how about we try putting "the left" in charge as they are obviously pretty clever.

I'm certainly no economist, how long would it take for companies to start manufacturing stuff in the US with US-made parts? Pharma, goods, whatever. Is that even remotely possible? And if it is, are we talking years, decades? And all the while the fucking dipshit is doing press conferences with his usual blather like "companies are coming back in great numbers to the US". Present tense. Fucking name one would be a question I'd love for him to be asked...maybe he was and he just ignores it like usual.

Even entertaining that dubious premise, what company would even begin to start moving back due to tariffs when the damn things are here one day, paused the next, and it's obvious there's not even a ghost of an actual plan regarding them. It's usual Trump "in the moment" stuff. He's doing his shakedown thing, except now with countries. Threaten, and get your way, and if not, you sue. This is what he's done thousands of times.