After Dropbox finds a child porn collector, a chess club stops his knife attack

"I failed my mission to kill everyone."

Read the whole story

 

[Deleted member 174040]

When researching my book The Internet Police, one common refrain I heard from prosecutors was that child pornography had been largely under control by the late 1980s—until the Internet made it depressingly common. Analog technology had kept child pornographers from operating at scale; films and photographs couldn't simply be sent out to a public developing lab, nor could they be easily encrypted and sent as an invisible stream of electrons. Creating, developing, and distributing child pornography required infrastructure—if you could even find fellow collectors.

In 2009, Ernie Allen, then CEO of NCMEC, said, "Twenty years ago we thought this problem was virtually gone." The same argument was made in 2013 by Kelly McManus, the Homeland Security agent who investigated Hester. In her search warrant affidavit, McManus noted that the old method had "definable costs" and required a "significant amount of skill."

But not anymore.

A reminder that for all the positives it brings, technological progress sometimes ushers in real problems.

 

[rasheverak]

Morals:

* Don't store illegal stuff in Dropbox.
* Never assume that someone isn't a badass.

 

[fivemack]

ChrisG[/url]":12bn2725]

Statistical[/url]":12bn2725]Things I learned today:
Some child pornographers are too stupid to encrypt their illegal content.

I am pleasantly surprised by this.

There are a decent number of them who've been caught in the past because they used their own credit cards to buy illegal imagery.

And, unfortunately, a distressing number of people who've had their lives ruined because someone stole their credit card details and someone else bought illegal imagery using the stolen details.

 

[Solar-Powered-Sea-Slug]

Never bring a knife to a chess fight...

 

[ayemahnuhrd]

Statistical[/url]":22p2tomm]

assault rifles .... nonsensense, nonsense, nonsense

Assault rifles have been heavily regulated since the NFA in the 1930 and new sales banned since 1980s. Maybe you are thinking about "scary black rifles". Weapons no more dangerous than their non-black counterparts but since they were scary looking a huge amount of political capital was expended to ban them for a decade with absolutely no benefit found (as concluded by the DOJ).

I guess I'm thinking of the ones where you just keep pulling the trigger and it keeps shooting more and more bullets and no elderly vietnam vet would ever be able to run up to you and punch you and make you stop. I guess I think that I'd rather live in a world where it is less likely that people in society have access to those types when planning to kill folks.

I guess I don't really give a sh*t about model numbers and the pointless arguments about whether pink ones or faster shooting ones or bazookas or tanks should/shouldn't be classified as 'assault widgets' or 'high capacity thingamajigs' so as to obfuscate the actual point. This is a person intending harm to children being thwarted because he didn't have a gun. I like this type of outcome better than the other kind.

 

[S8ER01Z]

Pokrface[/url]":39uh88ns]

drewd[/url]":39uh88ns]One thing that always escaped me when I was younger was that old people got that way for a reason. Don't mess with them.

Ain't no strength like angry old man strength.

It is real....you have to respect it.

 

[infected]

Pokrface[/url]":rpleswp3]

drewd[/url]":rpleswp3]One thing that always escaped me when I was younger was that old people got that way for a reason. Don't mess with them.

Ain't no strength like angry old man strength.

And ain't nobody got less fucks to give than someone who knows they might not live to see next Christmas.

 

[S8ER01Z]

SixDegrees[/url]":2p0k6j2j]

On October 26, 2015, Illinois Governor Bruce Rauner paid a visit to Morton. He was there to proclaim it "James Vernon Day" and to meet the man who had kept his chess club safe

It's a nice gesture. It really is. But it'd be nicer if he were to scratch together some cash for Vernon as a reward, or at least to cover some of his medical bills, in recognition of his acts.

If it happened in any other state that might be possible.

 

[lewax00]

simonov[/url]":5h5ndwos]How is a PhotoDNA file of child porn any different, fundamentally, from, say, a JPEG file of the same image? Both are computer codes that could be used to display a prohibited image. Or does the one-way hash make it okay?

Do you understand what "one-way" means? The image can be converted into the hash, but it can't go the other way. Hence, one-way. So no, the hash cannot be used to display the image, only to identify it (since another copy of the image could turned into the same hash).

 

[ewelch]

CraigJ[/url]":1348xo1a]Too bad the asshole didn't fall on his knife saving us the time and expense of housing his psychopathic ass for the next 60 years. OTOH would be child killers don't seem to do very well in prison... here's hoping.

Yes, that is the case. Unfortunately, wrongly accused people suffer because of that. I know of a specific case, and many of the people involved in that case personally, where an intellectually-challenged man was accused of raping and murdering a young boy, was given the third degree by the local police, finally admitted to what he didn't do. He went to prison for four years until the serial killer Charles Hatcher was caught, confessed, etc. Reynolds was released from prison where he suffered at the hands of his fellow prisoners. I spent some time talking with the father of the victim.

The fact that someone innocent suffered almost five years in prison while the perp ran free pretty much proves the justice system sucks when it comes to doing its job some times. And that not only the person wrongly convicted suffers from such injustice. Treating guilty people badly might offer some satisfaction for those who don't care about the subtleties of this subject. But too many innocent people suffer when law enforcement doesn't get it right and "justice" is too swiftly applied.

 

[Statistical]

Statistical[/url]":39tn79sg]

assault rifles .... nonsensense, nonsense, nonsense

Assault rifles have been heavily regulated since the NFA in the 1930 and new sales banned since 1980s. Maybe you are thinking about "scary black rifles". Weapons no more dangerous than their non-black counterparts but since they were scary looking a huge amount of political capital was expended to ban them for a decade with absolutely no benefit found (as concluded by the DOJ).

I guess I'm thinking of the ones where you just keep pulling the trigger and it keeps shooting more and more bullets and no elderly vietnam vet would ever be able to run up to you and punch you and make you stop. I guess I think that I'd rather live in a world where it is less likely that people in society have access to those types when planning to kill folks.

I guess I don't really give a sh*t about model numbers and the pointless arguments about whether pink ones or faster shooting ones or bazookas or tanks should/shouldn't be classified as 'assault widgets' or 'high capacity thingamajigs' so as to obfuscate the actual point. This is a person intending harm to children being thwarted because he didn't have a gun. I like this type of outcome better than the other kind.

Then say you want to ban guns. Just be honest about it and not hide under incorrect terminology. You want to ban guns so guys like this can hurt people. "Keep pulling the trigger and it keeps shooting" is the definition of just about every firearm manufactured since the early 1900s (earlier if you want to include revolvers and lever action rifles to that definition). So if you want to ban guns, then say "I want to ban guns" and stop regurgitating terms that you yourself admit you don't even know what they mean.

Also I think this outcome had more to do with the attacker than the weapon. The guy thankfully was not mentally prepared for the attack. Had he walked right up to the teacher with the knife hidden and stabbed him in the neck he could have then gone on to butcher the kids with impunity. He didn't. He hesitated and gave up the element of surprise. Most mass killings don't have the attacker trying to "scare" someone, or announcing they want to kill lots of people. They just violently and suddenly ... start killing people.

 

[SixDegrees]

carldjennings[/url]":q30732sm]

SixDegrees[/url]":q30732sm]

On October 26, 2015, Illinois Governor Bruce Rauner paid a visit to Morton. He was there to proclaim it "James Vernon Day" and to meet the man who had kept his chess club safe

It's a nice gesture. It really is. But it'd be nicer if he were to scratch together some cash for Vernon as a reward, or at least to cover some of his medical bills, in recognition of his acts.

I imagine the library is covering the medical bills, if nothing else to avoid a lawsuit.

I guess I'm not seeing how you can sue someone because an unaffiliated maniac went on a rampage, but OK.

 

[ProfessorGuy]

I guess I'll get labelled as a monster, but let me point this out: Having these penalties so high and ruining a life so thoroughly that suicide (or murder/suicide) is the only acceptable outcome may be counterproductive.

 

[lewax00]

I guess I'll get labelled as a monster, but let me point this out: Having these penalties so high and ruining a life so thoroughly that suicide (or murder/suicide) is the only acceptable outcome may be counterproductive.

Yeah, especially for a kid still in high school. He needs help, not a criminal record...

 

[SixDegrees]

Solar-Powered-Sea-Slug[/url]":ntfwf42d]

Especially when they meet their Prison Daddy for the Nth time...

Well, I'm not sure, but I've read that this is a myth, at least in the form where child abusers are singled out for retribution by the prison population. I'm pretty sure they get treated pretty much like everyone else, and that their treatment is based on their interactions with the rest of the inmates, rather than the particulars of whatever crime they committed.

Also, we've already deprived prisoners of the bulk of their freedoms, often for a very long time. That's the punishment we've agreed to mete out as a society, and that should be enough. I don't like wishing violence on prisoners in addition to their sentence.

 

[SixDegrees]

lewax00[/url]":3tx1mr5b]

I guess I'll get labelled as a monster, but let me point this out: Having these penalties so high and ruining a life so thoroughly that suicide (or murder/suicide) is the only acceptable outcome may be counterproductive.

Yeah, especially for a kid still in high school. He needs help, not a criminal record...

Eh, I'd guess there was plenty of help available if he had bothered to seek it out. Instead, it seems that his very first reaction to being caught and realizing the trouble his odious habit was going to cause him was to lash out at random victims, instead of dropping a dime on the local counseling service.

 

[NoNeeeed]

"currently reviewing 250,000 suspect child sex abuse images each week."

That has to be at the top of my list of "jobs I would never do, but I'm really glad someone does".

Something tells me those teams rack up a pretty hefty counselling bill.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

ewelch[/url]":1ncbfqqd]

Statistical[/url]":1ncbfqqd]

Statistical[/url]":1ncbfqqd]

assault rifles .... nonsensense, nonsense, nonsense

Assault rifles have been heavily regulated since the NFA in the 1930 and new sales banned since 1980s. Maybe you are thinking about "scary black rifles". Weapons no more dangerous than their non-black counterparts but since they were scary looking a huge amount of political capital was expended to ban them for a decade with absolutely no benefit found (as concluded by the DOJ).

I guess I'm thinking of the ones where you just keep pulling the trigger and it keeps shooting more and more bullets and no elderly vietnam vet would ever be able to run up to you and punch you and make you stop. I guess I think that I'd rather live in a world where it is less likely that people in society have access to those types when planning to kill folks.

I guess I don't really give a sh*t about model numbers and the pointless arguments about whether pink ones or faster shooting ones or bazookas or tanks should/shouldn't be classified as 'assault widgets' or 'high capacity thingamajigs' so as to obfuscate the actual point. This is a person intending harm to children being thwarted because he didn't have a gun. I like this type of outcome better than the other kind.

Then say you want to ban guns. Just be honest about it and not hide under incorrect terminology. You want to ban guns so guys like this can hurt people. Because "keep pulling the trigger and it keeps shooting" is the definition of pretty just about every firearm manufactured since the early 1900s. So if you want to ban guns, then say "I want to ban guns" stop regurgitating terms that you yourself admit you don't even know what they mean.

Also I think this outcome had more to do with the attacker than the weapon. The guy thankfully was not mentally prepared for the attack. Had it walked right up to the teacher with the knife hidden and stabbed him in the neck he could have then gone on to butcher the kids with impunity. He didn't. He hesitated and gave up the element of surprise. Most mass killings don't have the attacker trying to "scare" someone, or announcing they want to kill lots of people. They just violently and suddenly ... start killing people.

You can deny there's no difference in the kinds of guns one can buy, but that's disingenuous and ignores the facts involved. If you can't tell the difference between an assault rifle, and a hunting weapon, or target shooting weapons, you shouldn't be given access to them.

Hunting weapons are in fact much nastier than military weapons. Military guns tend to be good at punching holes through armor. They will punch a hole through a person, but it tends to be a clean hole. Hunting weapons don't punch through so much as transfer energy. They are more likely to tumble and fragment when hitting a bone and are quite a bit messier on the way out.

If the bad guys must have a gun, I have always been a big fan of full auto. Most people will fire quite a few bullets in a very short time, then they run dry. Full auto is fun to fire. Single fire is far more practical for people who don't know what they are doing.

 

[SixDegrees]

ProfessorGuy[/url]":cfy2vf5w]I guess I'll get labelled as a monster, but let me point this out: Having these penalties so high and ruining a life so thoroughly that suicide (or murder/suicide) is the only acceptable outcome may be counterproductive.

If we were talking about drug use or other crimes, I might agree. But child porn directly harms children. And that harm is not a secret. I have very few problems with long sentences for this particular crime, particularly in light of the fact that there is simply no effective treatment for such problems.

 

[Gibborim]

I don't suppose we know which Member of Congress nominated Hester to WP?

 

[Deleted member 174040]

ProfessorGuy[/url]":2uk1qabi]I guess I'll get labelled as a monster, but let me point this out: Having these penalties so high and ruining a life so thoroughly that suicide (or murder/suicide) is the only acceptable outcome may be counterproductive.

I'm curious - how do the justice systems of other countries handle cases like this?

 

[KhepryQuixote]

andrgl[/url]":30n05hsm]Russian sites seem to be the common source. Anyone know why that is?

Perhaps they are operated as part of a cyber-crime operation, or perhaps they are operated as a part of a SVR RF operation on the part of Russian intelligence, with the eventual intent of harvesting the compromised individual at a later date.

Personally, I find the first one more plausible as where there's demand, there's always supply. The second possibility just seems too heinous for a nation-state to conduct, but crazier things have happened in the past...

 

[t_newt]

As for the other young man, a former felon and alleged heroin addict accused of molesting a 14-year-old girl he had met at a church youth group, his name was Cody Brown. The fact that he shared the same last name as the knife-wielding Dustin was no coincidence; both lived in the same home on Fernwood Street.

Interesting little fact slipped into the end of the article. Was it his brother? His father? Messed up family any way you look at it.

 

[brshoemak]

I'm glad that so many of these offenders are complete idiots when it comes to obscuring their identities.

While it doesn't help for the larger pornography rings out there, it definitely culls the low-hanging fruit.

 

[infected]

andrgl[/url]":1kflpakd]Russian sites seem to be the common source. Anyone know why that is?

Basically it down to corruption, in russia bribery is common place, and organised crime is very organised, and although it is changing somewhat these days, Russia used to be known for being very non compliant with outside agencies for tech matter.

 

[rick*d]

muhname[/url]":6t6cs0pz]It would be one thing to upload self-encrypted files to some cloud storage, but to upload illegal pics/vids as such. After everything we have learned about the NSA and stuff.. Perhaps these guys unconsciously want to get caught. Also, what a cool old guy..

So these clowns used their real names when setting up their Dropbox account, and used email addresses with their birthdates in them, and then uploaded plain, unencrypted files? A) They deserved what they got, but also B) how many more are out there that know better than to make these mistakes?

 

[blingting]

Iphtashu Fitz[/url]":25vyw815]

simonov<ca>[/url]":25vyw815]How is a PhotoDNA file of child porn any different, fundamentally, from, say, a JPEG file of the same image? Both are computer codes that could be used to display a prohibited image. Or does the one-way hash make it okay?

The same exact way the value b2650798dd5f07838ccd91af91b22db1 is different from this image:


That first value is the md5sum hash of the image. There's no way you can get the original image back from the hash, but it's easy to calculate the hash from the image.

PhotoDNA apparently creates a similar hash but it's not a hash of every individual byte in the image (as this md5sum one is). The PhotoDNA hash value will apparently be the same even if the image has been altered slightly by cropping, watermarking, etc.

As I read it the PhotoDNA fingerprint is not a single hash, it's a series of hashes for different pieces of the image. So an image is divided into say 100 parts and 100 hashes are generated to make up the fingerprint. Then even if the image is watermarked and somewhat cropped you will still find that maybe 80% of the hashes match and you have a high chance of a positive ID.

 

[pj-]

brshoemak[/url]":m1lkg7vx]I'm glad that so many of these offenders are complete idiots when it comes to obscuring their identities.

While it doesn't help for the larger pornography rings out there, it definitely culls the low-hanging fruit.

That's like saying you're glad street level drug dealers are dumb. I guess it's satisfying in a way, but it's scary to think of how many smart ones there are, and that they get smarter every time something like this happens.

What would really make me glad is if the gov't exposed and arrested every member of this hell hole:
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experie ... sters.html

That place is much more terrifying than the 19 year old moron here.

 

[lewax00]

lewax00[/url]":2olltmv4]

I guess I'll get labelled as a monster, but let me point this out: Having these penalties so high and ruining a life so thoroughly that suicide (or murder/suicide) is the only acceptable outcome may be counterproductive.

Yeah, especially for a kid still in high school. He needs help, not a criminal record...

Eh, I'd guess there was plenty of help available if he had bothered to seek it out. Instead, it seems that his very first reaction to being caught and realizing the trouble his odious habit was going to cause him was to lash out at random victims, instead of dropping a dime on the local counseling service.

I think you entirely missed my point, that doesn't make the criminal charges go away. At his age, and being his first offense, it seems like the state could have mandated mental health care instead of trying to lock him away. And note he was first made aware of the investigation in February, October is a little late for "his very first reaction", don't you think?

 

[dermott]

sketchy9[/url]":ibd2ecz5]1. Amazing that this vet remembered his training 50 years after the fact.
2. Imagine if this loser had had access to a firearm.

Counter-point: Imagine if the Mr. Vernon (the veteran in question) had had access to a firearm. Could have saved his arm a serious lot of trouble.

Either way, kudos to the gentleman. Not many people are willing to put themselves in the way of a knife for other folk. We need more people with his mindset.

 

[DanNeely]

Is the technology behind Photo DNA available for other uses? Photo DNA appears focused exclusively on child abuse; but being able to match images up even if cropped/partially modified/etc seems like something that would have a number of other uses that could be commercialized (or used internally as product differentiators I suppose).

 

[heyduard]

Here's an interview with James Vernon after the incident:

http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2 ... y?cmpid=FB

Bravo, sir!

 

[Ralf The Dog]

It is sad, these child pornographers are so incompetent in covering their tracks. I think we should help. If you are a child pornographer, the only safe encryption to us is Rot 13. Anything else, the NSA can target.

Note: Rot 13 is only useful in protecting child pornography and terrorists. It should never be used to protect legal content.

 

[neye_eve]

blingting[/url]":24o0kfop]
As I read it the PhotoDNA fingerprint is not a single hash, it's a series of hashes for different pieces of the image. So an image is divided into say 100 parts and 100 hashes are generated to make up the fingerprint. Then even if the image is watermarked and somewhat cropped you will still find that maybe 80% of the hashes match and you have a high chance of a positive ID.

I don't get how a "simple" resize combined with a non-proportional crop wouldn't thwart this, unless they're also doing some sophisticated guessing to make normalized squares.

though, they've probably thought about this longer than the 30 seconds I have, so perhaps the math/algorithm folks have solved that sort of transformation, or at least gotten it good enough to eliminate 90% of false positives.