A mini pc as a music server?

[yd]

Hi,

I am trying to get a better setup on the home stereo in the living room. I currently have a WDLive hooked up that 'works' in that I can plug a 64 gig usb stick into it with flac files on it and then pump out via the optical output of the WD to my d2a that then feeds my preamp etc. The catch is, you are stuck with the music/browsing interface of the WDLive - and it sucks.

What I would like would be either a lossless wireless solution to get something to my d2a (doesn't exist to my knowledge) or am considering one of these

http://www.asus.com/ca-en/ASUS_VivoPC/V ... /overview/

My thought is, I can then put all my music files (all flacs, about 350 gigs worth) onto a 'proper' computer. I can then use this things optical output to feed my d2a and retain reasonably high quality flow from source through to speakers (with the actual d2a work being done by a proper stand alone d2a). My TV then becomes my monitor and I can use one of these wireless keyboard/mouse things (http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Multimedia ... B005OTXLLC) to then run Musicbee as my player.

The advantage then is I can search with ease, use playlists with ease and am about as easy to use as I can get (outside of a wireless lossless table beaming to the d2a somehow while running musicbee somehow - as mentioned, don't think this exists in any way).

Thoughts on this set up? Drawbacks I am not thinking of? Are these mini pcs loud or unable to easily play music? The only task for this thing would be music or maybe playing a movie of a dvd rip via a usb stick.

 

[Drizzt321]

I'm using http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I5SW8MC as my keyboard/controller. Pretty nifty, works just fine. It's definitely on the smaller size, but if you treat it as a larger blackberry-ish physical keyboard, you can type pretty decently.

As for the player, I've got one of these, specifically the CuBox i4Pro with OpenELEC/Kodi installed on it. It has WiFi, but for my needs (1080p, DTS, high quality MKV) I needed to plug into wire network, but that's a bandwidth issue. It played the media just fine. Uses so little power, I basically just leave it 'on' all the time, no need to worry about it starting up or anything. I just have it access the media via SMB (windows file share) from my home NAS.

EDIT: You're meant to output the audio via the HDMI port, although you could plug in a linux compatible USB sound card (if using OpenELEC/Kodi). But that'll get you the audio out to a receiver in a digital (although decompressed) fashion.

 

[yd]

Cool looking keyboard - alas doesn't ship here so will have to see if I can find it locally. No guarantee on finding the Asus either but if not, well, Amazon to the rescue.

For audio, I really want an optical output or yes, your Cubox would do the trick. I don't have a receiver. I want an output to my d2a directly. Alas, my d2a is a bit older and doesn't have a asynchronos usb input so optical is as good as I can get.

 

[PsychoStreak]

It should be fine for your playback needs, except for the DVD playback. It doesn't have an optical drive or room for one, so you'd need to use an external drive.

Looking at the machine you linked, it appears to be fanless, so noise shouldn't be an issue at all. The dual drive capacity is nice since you can use a smaller SSD (250GB) for the OS and apps, and keep your media on a larger SSD or HD.

Also has a VESA mount so if your TV's on a stand and not a wall mount you can stash it on the back of the TV and never see it.

If possible, try out that keyboard before you buy it. I've held one and did not like it, but you might.

I would consider this as an alternative.
If you ever find yourself needing to do any real typing those mini keyboards don't cut it.

 

[yd]

Fanless would indeed be sweet. Dunno if I would want the ssd route with a spinning disk but that said, if its cheap enough, a 500 gig spinner would be so cheap that yea, could be smart (vs just doing a 500 gig whole system on a spinning disk).

Will check out that keyboard as well. The reality is, I won't be typing on it other than a bit in Musicbee fields so its moreso just whats simple and easy.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

A dedicated x86 machine purely for audio/video playback seems like overkill.
Why not a Raspberry Pi 2 with a USB soundcard for optical out, like this one?
You can plug in the soundcard, USB harddrive, and a dongle for keyboard/mouse, and still have a port left over for a dedicated portable optical drive if you want.

 

[Drizzt321]

Wheels Of Confusion[/url]":y4zr2mhm]A dedicated x86 machine purely for audio/video playback seems like overkill.
Why not a Raspberry Pi 2 with a USB soundcard for optical out, like this one?
You can plug in the soundcard, USB harddrive, and a dongle for keyboard/mouse, and still have a port left over for a dedicated portable optical drive if you want.

Just for music, yea, an RPi probably is just fine. Even for FLAC and high bit-rate AAC/MP3. Unless OP is tied to a specific Windows application, which unfortunately might be the case.

 

[yd]

Drizzt321[/url]":n833bor6]

Wheels Of Confusion[/url]":n833bor6]A dedicated x86 machine purely for audio/video playback seems like overkill.
Why not a Raspberry Pi 2 with a USB soundcard for optical out, like this one?
You can plug in the soundcard, USB harddrive, and a dongle for keyboard/mouse, and still have a port left over for a dedicated portable optical drive if you want.

Just for music, yea, an RPi probably is just fine. Even for FLAC and high bit-rate AAC/MP3. Unless OP is tied to a specific Windows application, which unfortunately might be the case.

Not tied to it, just not sure how to do it otherwise in a user friendly matter. RPi is going to run MusicBee? If not yea, its likely a deal breaker.

 

[Drizzt321]

yd[/url]":2debj7q0]

Drizzt321[/url]":2debj7q0]

Wheels Of Confusion[/url]":2debj7q0]A dedicated x86 machine purely for audio/video playback seems like overkill.
Why not a Raspberry Pi 2 with a USB soundcard for optical out, like this one?
You can plug in the soundcard, USB harddrive, and a dongle for keyboard/mouse, and still have a port left over for a dedicated portable optical drive if you want.

Just for music, yea, an RPi probably is just fine. Even for FLAC and high bit-rate AAC/MP3. Unless OP is tied to a specific Windows application, which unfortunately might be the case.

Not tied to it, just not sure how to do it otherwise in a user friendly matter. RPi is going to run MusicBee? If not yea, its likely a deal breaker.

Looks like MusicBee is officially supported only under Windows. Apparently, there's some instructions on running it under Wine, but you're not likely going to want to do that as the experience will probably be lacking.

Do you just use it for basic music management, e.g. organize the files on disk in a tree and fix the tags? Or do you use various features to create dynamic ("smart") playlists and other database-like features? If it's simply the former, you can still use it on your main system, and just copy the sync the music directories across the 2 devices now and then and use a Linux player which will have search support & such. OpenELEC/Kodi could easily do that, as well as just basic linux desktop applications.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

WINE isn't an option on Pi hardware because of the ARM core. Musicbee is a non-starter on it.

OpenELEC, OSMC, XBian, etc. are basically nothing but media player operating systems, designed to handle and play local or networked media on whatever you plug the machine into. You don't have to mess around with desktop media player apps, they're built around the Xbox Media Center software and interface (which now goes by the name Kodi). They're about as purpose-built and streamlined as you can find in a consumer-friendly media player OS.

 

[SDplus]

I'm considering a VivoPC or maybe an Intel NUC as Audio-player for a jRiver player. Then use jRivers remote app to control it from my Tablet or Phone.
Although I would have to use a NAS as storage as all my DSD and Flac files takes so much space that any SSD-solution would be too expensive as 1 TB isn't even close to enough space.
The reason I will use jRiver is that it is really the only option available with a good user interface (especially with remote platforms) that supports ALL sound formats including Octuple-rate DSD.
The VivoPC irks me in one regard. All options that comes fully built has some fault that has to be corrected.
The cheaper ones need at least 4 GB more RAM, and another HDD, preferably SSD.
The pricier ones has a too small SSD.
The Dual bay ones comes without memory, HDD or Win 8.1. And together they become a little bit too pricey for me. A small Laptop would actually be cheaper with the correct specs.
The same is true for the Intel NUC's.
The size and noise-levels are correct for the job though. At least with a really quiet 2.5" HDD or better an SSD.

 

[Deleted member 1]

A used Mac Mini of the previous 2 two generations (2010 and 2012) is fairly cheap yet still hard to beat on low sound levels and is easily tinkered with to add for example SSD and or high capacity HDD.

 

[continuum]

The size and noise-levels are correct for the job though. At least with a really quiet 2.5" HDD or better an SSD.

You mentioned 1TB above, but (assuming the cost isn't an issue), 2TB SSDs as well as 2TB and I think even 3TB 2.5" harddisks are now available...

 

[hestermofet]

Ziontrain[/url]":3thlqaxh]A used Mac Mini of the previous 2 two generations (2010 and 2012) is fairly cheap.

No they're not. Apple products have absurd resale values, and the Mac Mini has (for some reason) one of the highest. The cheapest used Intel Mac Mini listed at Low End Mac is $199 for a Mini with a Core Duo 32 bit processor. I've seen a brand new Asus Vivo PC sell for that price when on sale. The cheapest with a somewhat modern processor (i5) is $595.

 

[SDplus]

continuum[/url]":cr9gstxs]

The size and noise-levels are correct for the job though. At least with a really quiet 2.5" HDD or better an SSD.

You mentioned 1TB above, but (assuming the cost isn't an issue), 2TB SSDs as well as 2TB and I think even 3TB 2.5" harddisks are now available...

Cost is an issue. However, the NAS is already in place with about 4 TB filled with Audio only (About 1 TB Flac, and about 2.8 TB DSD), so that part is irrelevant. I do want at least 240 GB SSD though as Windows systems seems to always go beyond the 120 GB mark at some point after a bit of use. A 480 GB one would be even better. But the data will be on the NAS. Anyway, Mostly I want to point out that for the moment only jRiver will support all high quality Audio formats in a way that is actually pass-through and not bit converting, although it can also do converting if need be. But the pass-through of all formats is the big thing for anyone with a capable DAC. And for anyone who wants to get into that race with compatability with all current formats, there is no "cheaper" way than IFI Micro iDSD. http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/
And in fact, you could settle for that one in almost any quality of audio set-up. It really has put the money where it counts most for audio quality.

For the moment I will use a relatively quiet Desktop PC I have in the listening room. I will keep an eye on deals or upcoming models of this type though. My vacation-money seems to dry up already in the first week...
I'm putting more money on building the adjustable table for my new record player than this would all cost. You know... Priorities and stuff...

 

[yd]

What happens when you use the optical output on something like that Asus? Have I not bypassed it as a d2a? I would be pumping that signal to me well above average quality Weiss 'Medea' d2a (and then onto the pre-amp etc).

I don't have anything other than cd quality flac rips (well and some bastard mp3s that I couldn't get on cd to rip properly).

 

[SDplus]

If you use a DAC capable of decoding your original source, it will be as bit perfect delivered as the file-format permits.
However, if you have for exampel a DSD-file but a standard DAC such as Cambridge Audio Dacmagic plus, then the driver will tell Jriver (or whatever software you are using), that it can't take DSD and Jriver will convert to most likely 24/96 and pass that on.
If you use USB instead of Toslink, then it could put through 24/192.
All Toslink DACs I know of will take 16/44 (as in CD quality) always, and it will be just fine.
There is one Caveat of built in sound-cards. Sometimes it is extremely hard to convince a chip to simply passthrough any internal processing, thus going through an upsampling unit and then a downsampling unit. It will say it does passthrough, but it really isn't. This process is PROBABLY bit perfect if no processing is used, but it is not guaranteed.
A shining example on how wrong this kind of digital signal path can become is the Creative X-Fi cards. It is actually possible to do true signal passthrough on those chips, but Creative never released a driver that actually allowed it. You had to use other solutions. Even their own ASIO driver was borked this way. However, there is a lot of general purpose ASIO drivers that solved that issue. (Edit: it was a long time ago since I allowed anything Creative on any computer I work with, so they might have solved this as of late, but they did so many things so wrong for so long that they entered my perma-ban list)

Digital Toslink either optical or coaxial has a limit of 24/96, but can transmit DD and DTS multichannel at that level.
To go DS, DXD and higher than 24/96 you have to use USB/Firewire or other specialized interfaces.
I usually try to use USB or Firewire and a good ASIO driver and a player that actually use an ASIO driver. That way you usually have no problems, and not internal chips excentric behaviour comes into play.

More info than you asked for, but I thought I would throw it in.

 

[yd]

Well thanks a ton. It confirms I absolutely want a 'source' that has an optical/toslink then as it gives me at least cd quality via a flac file going to my d2a. Unfortunately my d2a is just a tad too old and doesn't have a usb option that would allow for anything higher (it can and does do 192/24 dual channel upsampling for cds but it requires two xlr cables for that). If I can get cd quality out of a mini music 'server' direct into the big stereo and its gear, thats a win.