A lot of threads about politics but not so much about religion so I decided to start my own. Religion.

[austenite]

I call it Knotism. I came up with the concept about a decade ago but only came up with the symbology and the name last year.
In a short summary I'd call it a mashup of humanism, stoicism, determinism and a touch of paganism for spice.

I wrote up a summary of it at knotism.org if anybody wants to take a look.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to transition from being "A guy with a philosophy" to "a guy actively sharing his philosophy with his local community" but since I'm smack dab in the center of the bible belt I'm understandably struggling with this step.

My original plan was to begin with friends and family and try to grow naturally from there, the only problem is pretty much all of those people have had a religion they've become quite comfortable with for more than a few decades.

I've thought about just hanging out at local bars and try and talk to people about it if it comes up naturally but I've never been a big drinker really.

A good friend told me that getting traction with something like this is likely to take a long long time so I've resigned myself to settling in and taking progress when I can get it.

The short term goal would be a healthy group (~120) or so of like-minded people who meet in person regularly for... any reason really. Board game nights, karaoke, Pot luck, etc.

The dream goal would be a church building/community center of our own.

Anyway, so yeah. I'll take any and all feedback I can get Arsians.

 

[wxfisch]

From a quick read of your site, a few notes:

- This doesn't read as a religion to me; it is clearly a blended philosophy (which you acknowledge in the opening statement of your post here). It lacks some tenants that most would find in a typical religion. Namely there is not divine truth or effort to explain the unknown, all of the aspects of your system as rooted in rational thought, science, and reason (this isn't bad, and it is a large reason I personally am not generally religious). Most religions come with some aspect of faith, in a literally sense they require you to believe something that is unprovable in order to gain some revelation or understanding you otherwise wouldn't have.

- There just isn't a lot there, you are essentially saying that to participate in Knotism you need to foster social connections, take care of your physical self, and seek to understand through learning and rational discussion. Those are all just good things for everyone to do, but you can find that same philosophy in many other places and cultures.

- Your religion here lacks any sort of ceremony or shared mythology. How does one practice Knotism? You claim you want to create a building at some point, but why? Is it just because you want a clubhouse to meet in and socialize or is there a set way to practice this religion? If it is just that you want a rational thinking clubhouse, then I might point you to one of the many existing social/service societies that fulfill that desire such as the Elks, Knights of Columbus, Rotary Clubs, Orders of the Moose, Freemasons, American Legions, VFWs, Lion's Clubs, etc. They all have different spins, cater to different communities, and incorporate differing levels of formality and ceremony, but they all generally seem to fulfil the basic aspects of Knotism you have laid out. If you are envisioning something different you need to be clearer in that in how you present it because to me at least there isn't a lot else to dig in on.

- There doesn't seem to be a sacred or guiding text for this religion. You can't teach someone all about it in a conversation at the bar, so how does someone truly learn more beyond the very brief opener on your website? It doesn't need to be a bible, but there should be something that I can use to learn about the teachings and guidance of Knotism even though I am likely thousands of miles away from you.

It really sounds like you are looking for some source of community, don't identify with the (assumingly Christian) religions your friends, family, and neighbors participate in, and have created an alternative to fill that void. I would suggest checking out a local non-religious service/social club like Lion's or Rotary and see if that scratches that itch for you. Alternatively, I would suggest that you really sit down and try to answer your why. Why is this important to you? Why do you want to spread this belief system? Why should others abandon their belief system for yours? What do you want to get out of this? (that last one isn't a why, but same general idea).

 

[derMarc]

and a touch of paganism for spice.

I, for one, am not subscribing to your dogma.

 

[austenite]

I would suggest checking out a local non-religious service/social club like Lion's or Rotary

I've recently found out that many service/ fraternal clubs like this actually don't allow you to be a member if you're not a professed Christian.

Why is this important to you?

Shortly after the results were released of the 2024 election I was driving across Missouri for work and got to thinking "Ok. What is the root cause of what's wrong with this country (U.S.)?"

The answer as I see it is three fold.

1. Authoritarianism
2. Anti-intellectualism
and
3. corrupted social media.

So I started thinking about what a philosophy/belief system would look like that would embody the changes I think we need and ended up with what you see.

What do you want to get out of this?

Community. I'm certain there's a critical mass of people in my area who also crave social connection based on beliefs similar to what I value. I just want to figure out a way to get in touch with them.

thanks a ton for the feedback, btw.

 

[Coriolanus]

- This doesn't read as a religion to me; it is clearly a blended philosophy (which you acknowledge in the opening statement of your post here). It lacks some tenants that most would find in a typical religion. Namely there is not divine truth or effort to explain the unknown, all of the aspects of your system as rooted in rational thought, science, and reason (this isn't bad, and it is a large reason I personally am not generally religious). Most religions come with some aspect of faith, in a literally sense they require you to believe something that is unprovable in order to gain some revelation or understanding you otherwise wouldn't have.

This isn't required for a religion. Look at Confuscianism.

 

[Coriolanus]

Initial thought - this is more of a set of guidelines for conduct, which is fine. I find it a bit odd that the whole immortality thing is such a called out thing. I am guessing that it's a way to call out the supernatural beliefs without explicitly saying it.

Also, I felt like there is a better name there - Knosticism or Knotiscism.

 

[wxfisch]

I've recently found out that many fraternal clubs like this actually don't allow you to be a member if you're not a professed Christian.

This is true, which is why I suggest Lions and Rotary since those are mainly service organizations that help their communities. Others, such as Odd Fellows, Elks, Moose, and Eagles do expect you to at least believe in a higher power and can be prescriptive of "God" and expect that to mean the Christian god specifically. Whether you can meet those expectations is something personal.

This isn't required for a religion. Look at Confuscianism.

Very true, thus I said "typical religion", not all fit that mold but the vast majority of modern religions do, and even Confucianism goes beyond a simple "take care of yourself" philosophy. Even then, many modern scholars consider Confucianism as a philosophy and not a religion.

 

[Coriolanus]

Very true, thus I said "typical religion", not all fit that mold but the vast majority of modern religions do, and even Confucianism goes beyond a simple "take care of yourself" philosophy. Even then, many modern scholars consider Confucianism as a philosophy and not a religion.

Confuscianism has a lot of rituals that are a lot closer to religion than philosophy. Like tomb sweeping or ancestor shrines.

 

[austenite]

I find it a bit odd that the whole immortality thing is such a called out thing. I am guessing that it's a way to call out the supernatural beliefs without explicitly saying it.

Yeah. I debated for quite a while about this and objections to it have been the #1 sticking point with most of the people in my life.

But I simply feel like it's a fundamental part of the philosophy as a whole.

Also, I felt like there is a better name there - Knosticism or Knotiscism.

I realized shortly after I bought the domain and presenting it to my friends/family that when you say it out loud, "Knotism" sounds extremely similar to "Autism".

Not too late to change it, honestly.

 

[Coriolanus]

Yeah. I realized after I bought the domain that when you say it out loud, "Knotism" sounds extremely similar to "Autism".

Not too late to change it, really.

I was going for a Gnosticism pun.

 

[austenite]

It's funny, I just remembered that it was on a Ars Minecraft server back in ... 09? where I was first introduced to the trefoil knot. Someone had built a 4 story one out of diamond blocks.

I've been fascinated with it's geometry ever since.

 

[Coriolanus]

Yeah. I debated for quite a while about this and objections to it have been the #1 sticking point with most of the people in my life.

But I simply feel like it's a fundamental part of the philosophy as a whole.

To me, at least, it doesn't really matter if you believe in some sort of God or Buddha or what have you promising immortality or whatnot. So long as it does not interfere with your other principles, why does it matter?

If Mr. Rogers believe in doing everything your religion asks, but he is also a ordained minister - would you really want to reject him?

 

[Coriolanus]

I also want to note that it's not weird to be an adherent to multiple religions. My grandmother had a Buddhist, Taoist and a folk religious ritual at her funeral.

 

[rain shadow]

It sounds similar to unitarian universalist.

 

[FranzJoseph]

Why a religion though? I'd just call it a philosophy club...

We had plenty of such during my gymnasium* and uni years, usually ending up at the local pub well into the wee hours.

Of course I still stand strong behind my then drunk reasoning that any such hypothetical omnipotent and omniscient being AKA a God or a Prime Mover or the Big Bang Gal would inevitably abstain from ever ever interfering with the results AKA us, because any such interference would be contrary to their posited omniscience in the first place (i.e. can't just do the "free will" argument if the omniscience negates it, et cetera).

The only winning move any such posited Creator can do to keep their very omnipotence and omniscience and to keep their own sanity would be to totally abstain from the Universe they might have created, and abstain from it for eternity. Which is functionally not any different from there being no Creator being at all and the Big Bang just occurring randomly on its own, no difference at all in the end.

Anything else basically requires the allegedly omniscient and omnipotent Creator being just a sad sadist or some a poor guy with issues, and I seriously refuse to believe we are all living in a simulation run by some angsty idiotic teen like that, since that's both unprovable and not really helpful. Although to be fair, some of the recent geopolitical events and leaders do make me doubt that a bit!

But I don't really believe in dickhead gods, that does clash quite a bit with all the omniscience and omnipotence thing. And yes, and have read plenty of the old Christian and Muslim philosophers pondering the same dilemma, and I still find it totally implausible.

_{* gymnasium in the Continental sense, as an uni prep school for you left‑pondians, I think. It did have classical Latin and Greek and philosophy and actual comparative religion studies, not just ones focused on the Christian faiths (our comp‑rel teacher actually did a few semesters at Al-Azhar or whatever it was)}

 

[Shavano]

Elks, Knights of Columbus, Rotary Clubs, Orders of the Moose, Freemasons, American Legions, VFWs, Lion's Clubs, etc.

Knights of Columbus - very much a Catholic thing. Also men-only.
American Legion and VFW are military, exclusionary, and way too into thanking themselves for their service.

It sounds similar to unitarian universalist.

I know lots of UU's. Nice people. All over the place on religious ideas except all pretty sure there's some kind of god and some kind of afterlife.

I don't agree about that though. I think "supernatural beings exist" is a lot less likely than your neighbor being bigfoot with a good razor and any kind of afterlife is less likely than mushroom related spaceflight.

 

[Bardon]

Knights of Columbus - very much a Catholic thing. Also men-only.
American Legion and VFW are military, exclusionary, and way too into thanking themselves for their service.


I know lots of UU's. Nice people. All over the place on religious ideas except all pretty sure there's some kind of god and some kind of afterlife.

I don't agree about that though. I think "supernatural beings exist" is a lot less likely than your neighbor being bigfoot with a good razor and any kind of afterlife is less likely than mushroom related spaceflight.

FYI Freemasonry doesn't require Christian beliefs at all. The base Freemasonry is male-only but there are associated orders that are women-only and one that is "couples-only", though I'm out of date as to what their stance is on same-sex couples - it's been a while.

 

[Maxxim]

Add me to the ‘danger Will Robinson’ set.

There’s nowt quite like taking a handful of ideas we’ve had for a few thousand years, humanism, stoicism, a bit of determinism, sticking an “-ism” on the end, drawing a logo, and acting like you’ve invented summat new.

It’s not new, it’s a remix.

But instead of proving it actually helps anyone, we’ve jumped straight to branding, symbols, and trying to gather people around it like it’s the next big thing.

That’s the bit that raises an eyebrow for me.

Because when you’ve got a named “way of thinking”, a founder, a badge, and a push to build a following before it’s earned its keep, you’re wandering a bit close to territory that’s less “useful philosophy” and more “personality project with ambitions.”

If it worked, it wouldn’t need the label, the logo, or the pitch.

It’d just work.

 

[austenite]

It’s not new, it’s a remix.

I won't deny that. I think for me the main unique aspect is the notion that the three components I mention aren't siloed the way a lot of people like to believe, but intrinsically linked. Hence the value of the symbology of the trefoil knot (can't be untied and unravels when cut).

Because when you’ve got a named “way of thinking”, a founder, a badge, and a push to build a following before it’s earned its keep, you’re wandering a bit close to territory that’s less “useful philosophy” and more “personality project with ambitions.”

Every time I see my one cousin his first question is "So, How's the cult going?"

 

[Shavano]

FYI Freemasonry doesn't require Christian beliefs at all. The base Freemasonry is male-only but there are associated orders that are women-only and one that is "couples-only", though I'm out of date as to what their stance is on same-sex couples - it's been a while.

Freemasonry does assume/require belief in some sort of god. So already with that you're sorting out the atheists and asking the agnostics to assent to something they think is pretty questionable. At least US and Anglo-style freemasonry.

 

[Shavano]

I won't deny that. I think for me the main unique aspect is the notion that the three components I mention aren't siloed the way a lot of people like to believe, but intrinsically linked. Hence the value of the symbology of the trefoil knot (can't be untied and unravels when cut).

Every time I see my one cousin his first question is "So, How's the cult going?"

I knew we'd get tied up in arguments about whether or not it was a cult. It was bound that way from the beginning.

 

[austenite]

I knew we'd get tied up in arguments about whether or not it was a cult. It was bound that way from the beginning.

I thought one of the definitions of the word was "A religious organization where the author of the religion is still alive" but it looks like that's not a common definition of the word any longer.

 

[Shavano]

I thought one of the definitions of the word was "A religious organization where the author of the religion is still alive" but it looks like that's not a common definition of the word any longer.

Probably biased by most cults being short lived and all religions being founded while their founder is still alive.

I think the distinction between cults and religions is that cults refers to the subset of religions where
1) there's particular focus on rejecting and isolating members from broader society
2) society regards their beliefs as weird

 

[AverageDutchGuy]

IMHO the only way to actually found a new "religion" or set a new philosophy is NOT to be the one that writes the rules down or makes the club or whatever. Or if you do, don't make it the starting point. The only "proper" way to share your world view is to simply be the best adherent to YOUR worldview that you can be. Stick to it (not to the point of dogma, but incorporate and change only when it is needed from evidence or in harmony with the rest of your guiding principles). Guide other people according to it when they ask for it. In short it basically boils down to "be the jesus/buddha/muhammed" of your religion/philosophy first. All the rest can follow later. Start the social club first, gather the sorts of people you want around you, around you. In this starting phase you'll probably encounter lots of challenge to your worldview. You'll have to decide for yourself how much pushback you want to entice, incorporate or accept, but being strict only on your core principles and loose on everything else will help you meet and attract more people.

 

[Da Xiang]

I won't deny that. I think for me the main unique aspect is the notion that the three components I mention aren't siloed the way a lot of people like to believe, but intrinsically linked. Hence the value of the symbology of the trefoil knot (can't be untied and unravels when cut).



Every time I see my one cousin his first question is "So, How's the cult going?"

I taught this same stuff in a University program on Human Studies long, long ago. Essentially, it was the contents of my Master's Thesis and the University came to me and asked me to create a class around the main ideas. It was a lot of fun teaching/discussing but I'm very glad it didn't become a religion.

 

[austenite]

The only "proper" way to share your world view is to simply be the best adherent to YOUR worldview that you can be.

This. This. This. Yes. Thank you.

This is where I'm at right now. I know I'm just going to have to take it slow and "Be the change" as that nuke-happy warmonger is known to say. There's a local time bank in my area that I've been trying to participate in to this end.

 

[austenite]

I taught this same stuff in a University program on Human Studies long, long ago. Essentially, it was the contents of my Master's Thesis and the University came to me and asked me to create a class around the main ideas. It was a lot of fun teaching/discussing but I'm very glad it didn't become a religion.

I would very much like to read this.

 

[BigVince]

There's been fairly successful tax dodging scams based on less. I'd give it a spin for funsies.

 

[Da Xiang]

I would very much like to read this.

I should have some materials from this on my system somewhere......Maybe I can dig up something tomorrow.

 

[Gisboth]

If you want to get rich, you start a religion.
- L. Ron Hubbard

 

[austenite]

If you want to get rich, you start a religion.
- L. Ron Hubbard

I gotta admit I want to read up on HOW that two-bit sci-fi writer managed to start a religion that ended up becoming a household name.

And for what it's worth I have no desire to ever see a payday from this. My endgame is a nothing more than mutual aid group with the Knotism name on it.

 

[Auguste_Fivaz]

Let's see - hats - you need a hat as a signifier, look at the Pope, Sikhs, lots of fun hats in Japan and China, Athena's helmet, the more ornate the better.

If not hats then robes, something to keep out the chill in the drafty cathedral for example but which you can wear to the local bar.

 

[Coppercloud]

I knew we'd get tied up in arguments about whether or not it was a cult. It was bound that way from the beginning.

I see what you did there.

 

[Disharmonic]

I thought one of the definitions of the word was "A religious organization where the author of the religion is still alive" but it looks like that's not a common definition of the word any longer.

Not quite.
From Wikipedia

An older sense of the word cult, which is not pejorative, indicates a set of religious devotional practices that is conventional within its culture, is related to a particular figure, and is frequently associated with a particular place, or generally the collective participation in rites of religion.[4][1] References to the imperial cult of ancient Rome, for example, use the word in this sense. A derived sense of "excessive devotion" arose in the 19th century, and usage is not always strictly religious.[a][1]

 

[bthylafh]

$DEITY is a crazy woman and Her name is Eris.

(do you believe that?)

 

[austenite]

Let's see - hats - you need a hat as a signifier, look at the Pope, Sikhs, lots of fun hats in Japan and China, Athena's helmet, the more ornate the better.

If not hats then robes, something to keep out the chill in the drafty cathedral for example but which you can wear to the local bar.

I thought about this!

I've got an uncle who runs a theater department at a really nice prep school in the NE. I asked him if he'd be interested in helping me come up with a costume but he turned me down.

I did come up with something on my own though. A mobius strip sash. One color on one side and one on the other... wait a second.

 

[Da Xiang]

I haven't forgotten. Just not a good day today so I didn't bother looking for your information.

 

[wrylachlan]

So I’ve actually been thinking of something not entirely dissimilar a lot lately - not founding a religion but founding a church. I’ve been thinking about the non-faith things that have been lost as fewer and fewer people go to church.

• Access to a one stop shop for broadly understanding the charitable needs of a community
• A regular frequent time set aside to communally consider morality and ethics
• A trusted individual with whom to discuss moral quandaries and unburden oneself

And as a parent I think about the second order effects. Children seeing their parents frequently engage in basic charity - from doing a bake sale to support the church’s outreach with the poor to community clean ups to clothes donations. Children seeing their parents purposefully set aside time to reflect on their own morality, ethics and place in the world in a structured way.

None of these things are religion really, but it is a sort of center of gravity for trying to live a more moral life. And I wonder if it’s even possible to have a secular version of that.

 

[Shavano]

The only "proper" way to share your world view is to simply be the best adherent to YOUR worldview that you can be.

Doesn't track well with how religions were founded in cases where we have detailed history, which tracks to founded in the era when we had histories being written by not-their-adherents. Most of them were founded by horrible people.

 

[austenite]

So I’ve actually been thinking of something not entirely dissimilar a lot lately - not founding a religion but founding a church. I’ve been thinking about the non-faith things that have been lost as fewer and fewer people go to church.

• Access to a one stop shop for broadly understanding the charitable needs of a community
• A regular frequent time set aside to communally consider morality and ethics
• A trusted individual with whom to discuss moral quandaries and unburden oneself

And as a parent I think about the second order effects. Children seeing their parents frequently engage in basic charity - from doing a bake sale to support the church’s outreach with the poor to community clean ups to clothes donations. Children seeing their parents purposefully set aside time to reflect on their own morality, ethics and place in the world in a structured way.

None of these things are religion really, but it is a sort of center of gravity for trying to live a more moral life. And I wonder if it’s even possible to have a secular version of that.

As someone who grew up baptist I can't help but fondly remember the community I got to experience in my youth.

All I want is for my daughter to be able to be apart of something similar, but in non-religious setting. I guess country clubs sort of fit this bill.