Tesla makes its cars lie about their mileage, lawsuit claims
- Thread starter JournalBot
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But Musk isn't programming this 'cheat' in himself, some programmer was told to do this by management and that individual didn't have enough of an issue with it to say no, and so they did it.
Which means your fellow man/woman (but who's kidding who, it's likely a man), one of the ones that say "I'm a programmer at Tesla", is responsible for cheating the common, faceless, consumer. That, to me, is the shittiest part..
Which means your fellow man/woman (but who's kidding who, it's likely a man), one of the ones that say "I'm a programmer at Tesla", is responsible for cheating the common, faceless, consumer. That, to me, is the shittiest part..
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I went to high school with a guy whose dad went to prison for rolling back odometers.
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Tesla's own data-collection should serve nicely. They likely have both odometer and GPS logs for every car they have ever sold.
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Did you read the whole article? Because it isn’t just “different numbers from different cars”.
Why would someone do that to their own personal vehicle? If the car gives one mileage at one point in time and then seemingly gives a different distance at a different point in time over the same route… that would be odd, to say the least.
For someone who describes themself as “no Tesla fan”, you’re carrying a lot of water for them.
Yeah… but the code isn’t out there for anyone to review. If the code is flawed, then it will come out during discovery, if the trial goes that far.
People/companies cut corners all the time for cost savings. And considering how it certainly seems that Teslas have a decent amount of problems… not having to fix those problems on their own dime can add up fast.
Doubtful. I’m willing to bet that the damages would be capped at some amount per incident. And theoretically, Tesla could settle to avoid crazy damages and admitting liability.
Maybe Musk was the one who demanded this. After all, less money that Tesla has to spend, the better they look on their quarterly and yearly earnings reports, therefore increasing his wealth.
That’s what a trial is for.
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Who knew that one’s daily commute would be considered “trips that are outside of [one’s] norm…”?
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How do you know it isn’t? Other people have reported having the same issue.
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Nora Lenderbee
Ars Tribunus Militum
Did you ever watch the 1980 movie "Used Cars"? The opening scene where Rudy rolls back the odometer on a used car is priceless.
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A case about the material application of state law is hardly random in a discussion about how state law will save us any day now. A system is what a system does, not what it claims to be.
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True, and I think mechanics have equipment designed to do just that.
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thelongdarkteatimeof
Ars Scholae Palatinae
don't forget that they were/are openly racist to their employees in their factories
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I assume Elon told them to program the odometers to get to cool numbers like 69 or 420 or 42069 as fast as possible...
They probably stay on those numbers for a full mile or two so people can see how cool their cars are.
They probably stay on those numbers for a full mile or two so people can see how cool their cars are.
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Are you telling us there are downsides when everything's computer?!
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My assumption is that it counts revolutions at the wheels - the ABS sensor is already 99% there.
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cough Sounds like a job for an automotive journalist. cough
To be clear, I'm not defending Tesla here, but going through the effort to insert an algorithm to inflate odometer readings predictively versus taking readings off a sensor and simply doing the conversion to miles feels like a lot of extra work for something that ought to be fairly easy to expose. It could be that they're doing something even more convoluted OTA and going to great lengths to hide it and only do so on some cars? I think I'd like to see data before I don my tin foil hat. Then again they did make it play farts and has a "rainbow road" easter egg so god only knows what Tesla developers are doing with their time.
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This got me curious, so I checked where my Model Y is at. I had my tires replaced on July 19, 2024 and my mileage was at 55,312 as recorded on the invoice. According to my car I'm currently at 78,151, so that's 22,839 in 9 months.
Work is 45 mi roundtrip. Assuming an average of 22 workdays per month x 9 months, that's 8,910 for my work commute during that time, leaving 13,929 for recreational use. It's hard to say for certain because I don't track personal driving, but that seems like a lot.
Work is 45 mi roundtrip. Assuming an average of 22 workdays per month x 9 months, that's 8,910 for my work commute during that time, leaving 13,929 for recreational use. It's hard to say for certain because I don't track personal driving, but that seems like a lot.
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It's also why Tesla engineers make such good sycophants for Musk dragging them along with him to his other debacles like X or DOGE, because they're already conditioned to "just following orders" at best and are guzzling his kool-aid at worst
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They were probably at least semi smart about it. Like VW did it probably tries to detect patterns indicating it's on a dynamo and then doesn't lie assuming it's being tested, which means the real testing can only be done in real world conditions which massively increases the calendar time window to do the study using typical driving
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ABS wheel sensors like every other car. But that doesn't preclude them doing something shady.
But I note this guy seems to be going largely based on his assumptions of monthly mileage.
You could just run an independent GPS and check this.
IMO, If it was that far off, many would have noticed something before now. I'd bet a lot of testers use GPS in their testing.
If you have a Tesla check it...
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Nora Lenderbee
Ars Tribunus Militum
It can be much more simple than that. Next time you are driving a nice, straight-ish piece of interstate highway, note the mile markers on the side of the road as you cruise along. Over a distance of 10 miles or so, they are usually quite accurate. It's easy to see if your odometer is within a few percent of correct.
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I like how none of the Ars commenters question this happening but dive right into how, as well as expressing overall doubt that anything will come of it.
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Zim the Vixen
Ars Centurion
actually wondering if the power to pardon applies to legal entities now. can you just pardon Tesla fur any past and future crimes? (not that pesky things as "the law" will stop fascists)
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When I was switching away from my prior Tesla Model S, I decided to lease a different EV. I figured that I was only using about 12k miles per year, as that's about how much I usually drive. Even back with my earlier Model 3, I was logging all of my trips using TeslaFi, so when I checked my odometer history on TeslaFi, I was shocked to see that I had actually used around 17k-18k in the first year. This article makes me curious to do a deeper dive on the numbers.
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You don't even need a dyno, you just need a fifth wheel. They've been a standard part of the automotive testing landscape for forever. Not used so much now due to GPS but they're simple and would be very difficult to cheat. I guess it'd be technically possible to use the car's cameras to detect if there's something hanging off of it but that's getting pretty damn convoluted.
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Some people advocate harrassment of Tesla owners, but frankly, it's really starting to look like the ultimate punishment for buying a Tesla is owning a Tesla.
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I think the president can pardon corps for federal crimes. But only past crimes not future crimes. And they cant pardon them from lawsuits.
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I'm sure lots of DA's in the remaining Free States would jump on this. But the plaintiff needs more evidence before bringing it.
- Disconnect the cellular modem so Musk can't tamper with the car remotely.
- Using something like Waze, plan a trip of something like 100 miles.
- Take a photo of the odometer before starting the trip.
- Make the trip with Waze on.
- Take a photo of the odometer afterwards. Any significant variation is your proof.
- Take all of this to the DA and offer to demonstrate it. And with that, you have Diesel Gate.
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Zim the Vixen
Ars Centurion
jesus fucking christ
thanks fur the link. that. ugh... disgusting
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My point was more over the driving patterns than the mechanism of measure. My suspicion is that the tesla software will try to detect what looks like a test on a dynamo rig, aka driving at constant speed in a straight line for a prolonged amount of time, and stop fudging the numbers in that scenario just like VW kicked in their hidden special emissions trap in those cases.
You don't even need a dyno, you just need a fifth wheel. They've been a standard part of the automotive testing landscape for forever. Not used so much now due to GPS but they're simple and would be very difficult to cheat. I guess it'd be technically possible to use the car's cameras to detect if there's something hanging off of it but that's getting pretty damn convoluted.
A track course is less certain but my point was more that testing will likely need to be wheels on pavement with a driver as your picture shows vs a test done on a test stand
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Does a Tesla operate normally when disconnected from the mothership?
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I think we're saying the same thing:
distance = measured using gear (or electromechanical sensor) on the differential (or drive shaft or axle Edit: or wheel).
speed (mph/kph; not rpm) = first derivative of the distance with respect to time.
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That comment aside, I am actually curious about the comment in the article about arbitration. If a company is committing fraud (allegedly), I have to go through arbitration? Does that sit right with anyone? Well, anyone not on the board at Telsa, at least?
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The evidence presented in the article is rather weak. He needs to have somebody do some testing on a measured path. I realize it's too late for him to do this with his car, since it's no longer under warranty.
I'm not saying it's not true, just that I think a good lawyer could argue this is not compelling.
I'm not saying it's not true, just that I think a good lawyer could argue this is not compelling.
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I wish I could call you a liar for saying this.
I hope unaltered gps logs can be pulled from the car. My car has a trip record.
That plus records from a personal device should be enough to prove what is happening (I know it's an invasion of privacy but I can use google maps to pull trip data and it even knows if I am walking).
If Tesla is manipulating customer data I hope they get in a lot of trouble.
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I see what you're getting at but what would be the point of such an individual trying to form a class action with other owners when as the article states that will likely be an uphill battle?
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