I agree with you about not supporting CarPlay. We use the built-in Apple Music app in our R1S to solve the streaming problem, and the nav is top-notch with the Rivian/Google integration there. The biggest gap remaining is the ability to activate hands-free calls or texts without having to turn to Alexa. Hopefully they'll see that Tesla is adding CarPlay, if they do, and follow suit.
This is fascinating to me and I would love to know if BMW is aware how prevalent this sentiment is and how they feel about it.At this point, even if I had the extra coin, I'd probably pick Rivian.
I like a lot of the ideas in the Rivian but do we really need to be adjusting every single possible thing in the car through a touch screen?
I really, really just want to be able to adjust my HVAC or other basic driving tasks without looking at or talking to my vehicle.
I quite like the look and the color of this particular incantation.
The Rivian space in Seattle has been allowed to do "public education drives" for about a year now!Agreed 100%. We'll be headed to Portland to test drive an R2 as Washington doesn't allow this yet.
(OK, it actually said “R2 is outfitted with 200 sparse TOPS of edge AI compute dedicated to the in-cabin experience,” but I really don’t like how compute is becoming a noun.)
Well don't take my word as universal. It has a lot more to do with the fact that I have two small kids who make a huge fucking mess in my cars and I'd rather them beat the shit out of a 50k car and not a 65k one.This is fascinating to me and I would love to know if BMW is aware how prevalent this sentiment is and how they feel about it.
Are they seething with jealousy that Rivian has the magic dust on them?
Do BMW think "they're a small, US firm, we're a global behemoth, why would we care?"
Is it on the CEO's radar as a 5-10 year threat?
The concept that people would prefer a cheaper alternative to BMW even if they had BMW money seems like a seismic shift in the automotive landscape.
I mean, I agree, but that’s the just state of the industry.It's all relative. I could afford that, but in actuality that is 4 times what I spent on my last vehicle. New cars have priced themselves out of my market. House payments and 401 are way higher priority.
The blue one in the article photos strikes me as a blue with a definite green undertone - Porsche heads would call it Oslo Blue or Petrol Blue. And yes, that's absolutely a lovely purple. Pity there's no orange or red. Their "Canyon Red" is good.Which of the greens is that? Launch Green? Or do you mean the blue one? I'm not sure I'd call any of the colors "teal." (Not criticizing; genuinely curious.)
I personally think launch green is just a bit too gray for my tastes, the forest green is a bit too dark, the blue looks great, as does the purple. I've never considered myself to be a purple car person. But it's a pretty purple.
I admit to being a snob about CarPlay. But I had reason to think about it when I was looking at cars recently...Dang. I was interested until I saw no carplay. Also not a fan of the services subscription model they are joining along with other manufacturers. I guess I can keeping driving what I have.
I really don’t like how compute is becoming a noun.
It's literally the reason I won't consider the brand (along with other offenders). And that makes me slightly upset, because spec-sheet-wise I like them. They're also the Other American EV Startup, without the Nazi baggage. I want them to succeed, and I love the look of the upcoming R3. But I just can't handle the HMI, and those silly scroll wheels aren't the solution.I like a lot of the ideas in the Rivian but do we really need to be adjusting every single possible thing in the car through a touch screen?
I really, really just want to be able to adjust my HVAC or other basic driving tasks without looking at or talking to my vehicle.
I quite like the look and the color of this particular incantation.
That has not been the case since the heavy mechanical refresh of the R1 models; they reduced the build cost of the R1 by something like $54k since they went on the market. They're showing a trend toward net profitability in Q4 26, and they've already posted net positive revenues, so they're well on the way.The big question for me is not what their planning to sell the new R2's for, but whether or not they can finally make any profits selling those vehicles at the planned prices. Throughout the history of the company, they've taken a loss on every vehicle they've sold.
They need new product to start making money, and investing in a new model and new platform is extremely expensive.At some point they need to start making money or they're going to go out of business, regardless of how good their products might be. I want an answer regarding the profitability question.
Curious that you mention all of these problems with Tesla.I have the opposite perspective: we swapped our Tesla for an Ioniq 5, and I am thrilled to always have CarPlay. It’s true Rivian and Tesla have different systems, but I use CarPlay-specific features constantly that neither can replicate:
- Apple home to open/close my garage door (via ratgdo + HASS), and confirm it’s closed as I drive away
- voice texting while driving
- control Overcast, my podcast player
- set up map routes before I get in the car
- set up map bookmarks at home and use them when driving
It’s just dumb for car companies to demand I do all this work in a separate system that is only useful in the car. The mapping limitations were especially galling in the Tesla.
To be honest, I don't even care if the built in UI is good or not, because I never asked car OEMs to build an entertainment system UI in the first place. It's like when cell phones first came out and the cell carriers wanted to make the phone UI, sell the music, make the phone App Store. Nobody wanted cell carriers doing any of that, at all. Not even if they were good at it. We wanted the companies that handle our desktops and laptops and MP3 players to handle the phone software and give us a smooth experience from one device to the next. We wanted the songs and apps we already own. Why should you have to switch between Apple or Google's UI and Rivian's UI just because you sat down in a car?I admit to being a snob about CarPlay. But I had reason to think about it when I was looking at cars recently...
I decided my bias on CarPlay is based on the crap experience with built-in infotainment stacks.
By all reports Rivian and a few other manufacturers have the built-in experience good.
Nope, no new car gets a pass. No CarPlay, no consideration for me owning it.Rivian does not offer Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. Will people care like they do with GM cars, or will they let it slide like they do with Tesla?
I admit to being a snob about CarPlay. But I had reason to think about it when I was looking at cars recently...
I decided my bias on CarPlay is based on the crap experience with built-in infotainment stacks.
By all reports Rivian and a few other manufacturers have the built-in experience good.
My basic asks were covered in some stories. Ability to run whatever music App I want. My family is split Apple vs Spotify as well a few other applications for audio.
When those are covered I realized my objections are significantly muted by the benefits of having range and mapping integrated.
I did this as well. Decided last time we were flirting with $5.00 gas that it would only get worse and I should switch if possible. Really handy.It's definitely an investment, but I've invested in solar at my home too, so charging is mostly free for me. That is a big advantage since I no longer have to pay for gas or oil, and maybe that will help you when you're considering your options.
Regardless of how good their UX may be, the manufacturers are still generating a multi-billion dollar business off selling your data from using their systems (and shoving subscriptions in there for things that absolutely do not need to be a subscription).I admit to being a snob about CarPlay. But I had reason to think about it when I was looking at cars recently...
I decided my bias on CarPlay is based on the crap experience with built-in infotainment stacks.
By all reports Rivian and a few other manufacturers have the built-in experience good.
My basic asks were covered in some stories. Ability to run whatever music App I want. My family is split Apple vs Spotify as well a few other applications for audio.
When those are covered I realized my objections are significantly muted by the benefits of having range and mapping integrated.
I should have emphasized that I don't think you're alone with that sentiment. My personal opinion is BMW has lost some of what makes it special with their newer stuff.Well don't take my word as universal. It has a lot more to do with the fact that I have two small kids who make a huge fucking mess in my cars and I'd rather them beat the shit out of a 50k car and not a 65k one.
That said, the car they drive in most of the time is my 65k Model Y that I bought at the peak right before the massive early 2023 price cut. So I feel the pain every time I take it and see the huge mess everywhere.
If I were single guy, no kids, and had the money, I'd take the BMW.
Rivian does not offer Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. Will people care like they do with GM cars, or will they let it slide like they do with Tesla?
Unless you really need AWD, this variant is the really sweet spot:We are all human. Things happen. The unintentional intrigue adds to their exposure, IMO.
The R2 is more expensive than I was hoping for... but it is the right kind of vehicle I want. Size, EV, capabilities.
Because the skateboard design, there's lots of weight on the rear wheels and RWD works extremely well on a modern, well-designed BEV.The single-motor R2s arrive next year, with the $48,490 R2 Standard that uses the same 87.9 kWh battery pack....
I vaguely recall they said the first generation launch edition will have a less desirable non-lidar camera module. I haven't heard that confirmed post launch but the expectaion was a revision in the first 12 months to add that lidar.Rivian has already announced the R2 will ship with the hardware for autonomous driving.
#30,000 in 2008 is now $46,444 with just inflation alone. The ADX is its equivalent now and that starts at $35k, fwiw.I mean, I agree, but that’s the just state of the industry.
I remember when a BMW 3 Series started at $33K and was $42K well-equipped. Now it starts in the $50K range. My 2008 Acura TSX was $30K out the door.
Inflation (actual inflation) and post-COVID price-gouging have just murdered pricing.
Fwiw I’m looking at replacements for a BMW suv as the family car. The top contenders are the iX3, EX60, and Honda Prologue. The last one may seem odd but consider that it has CarPlay, door handles, and physical controls. It may be down a class but with all the austere tessla mimicking interiors coming out and my actual driving priorities, it is making a compelling case for my family!I should have emphasized that I don't think you're alone with that sentiment. My personal opinion is BMW has lost some of what makes it special with their newer stuff.
The car landscape seems to suggest Rivian "has the juice" (as the kids say).
We'll see how they do with sales and if the neue class brings back BMW's mojo I guess.
As a fellow Tesla owner I confirm what is said here. I drove '17 and '20 Bolts, which have Android Auto/Car Play before my Telsa and was leary about the switch, but obviously gave it a try. I don't miss it.Curious that you mention all of these problems with Tesla.
- Garage door is there but confirmation isn't
- voice texting. I do this with my daughter now. Both initiate and respond.
- I don't use overcast, but I control audible on phone perfectly fine. (Yes Audible is now available on car, but I've continued to use phone... just because.)
- I setup map routes all of the time from phone, either Tesla App or through Google Maps share with Tesla
- "Map bookmarks"? Not sure what you mean. I can setup and use favorites.
There are still plenty of people who can charge at home who don't own EVs yet, and charging at home will be cheaper than gas for a vast majority of those people. Lots needs to be done to make EVs more viable for more people, but we haven't come anywhere near exhausting the existing market of people who would get along just fine with an EV but haven't gotten one yet.I'm not convinced there's a real future market for these size eSUVs. Without ongoing support for the infrastructure (which govt organizations will have budgets) to charge and for roadways to drive on, I don't see their future. Just how many people have and will have access to home charging. Will charging be less expensive than fossil fuels and will that hold if the market only consists of electric. How many people comprise the market affording this price point? Color me very skeptical.
| R2 Trim | Power Train | Battery Capacity (usable) | Power | Torque | Acceleration 0-60 mph | Range | Starting MSRP | Availability |
| Performance | Dual-Motor AWD | 87.9 kWh | 656 hp | 609 lb-ft | 3.6 sec | 330 miles (EPA est.) | $57,990 (incl. Launch Package) | Spring 2026 (MY2027) |
| Premium | Dual-Motor AWD | 87.9 kWh | 450 hp | 537 lb-ft | 4.6 sec | 330 miles (EPA est.) | $53,990 | Late 2026 (MY2027) |
| Standard (Long Range) | RWD Long Range | 87.9 kWh | 350 hp | 355 lb-ft | 5.9 sec | 345 miles (Rivian est.) | $48,490 | Early 2027 (MY2028) |
| Standard | RWD | TBD | 350 hp | 355 lb-ft | 5.9 sec | 275+ (Rivian est.) | $45,000 | Late 2027 (MY2028) |
Then why are they complaining in an article about a category in which they're uninterested?Because some poster have called the price high in absolute terms, and others have defended by saying ‘no, it’s good value for the category.’
And ‘it’s good value for the category’ is not an answer to the original complaint. If you think $50K is too much to pay for a new car, then it doesn’t matter how good a value it is for its category. You’re just going to eliminate that category from consideration.
All of my trucks have been grey, and i wish the rest of you would stop copying me.I count four (green, blue, green, purple) which is much more diverse than most manufacturers, which will give you two if you're lucky. I do wish we had a red instead of a second gray, but people do seem to like buying gray cars.