Beyond technology? How Bentley is reacting to the 21st century.
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There was a time when no one would buy Japanese cars either, and more recently Korean cars.
If the Chinese manufacturers can nail down reliability for an extended period of time (and at least initially affordability), there will be a market for them eventually.
If the Chinese manufacturers can nail down reliability for an extended period of time (and at least initially affordability), there will be a market for them eventually.
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I don't think Bentley drivers are looking for more digital or mechanical bells and whistles. Do they want to swap their car with a brand that sounds like Honky so they can crab walk at 16 degrees? As silly as the bit about the 'story' and the brand legacy sound when you say them out loud, I think it does matter.
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fellow human
Ars Praefectus
Beyond technology the hallmark of the 21st century is wealth inequality. I suppose we know what Bentley's reaction is to that.
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I don't think European luxury car makers have any more to fear from Chinese brands than European luxury clothing makers have to fear from Chinese brands. Chinese demand is growing the overall market, and it's Chinese brands that are largely filling that void, but there's still plenty of demand for legacy brands precisely because of their legacy.
To put it another way: remember when Tesla released the $120k Model S Plaid which could do 0-60 in 2 seconds and all the fanboys were saying that was the end of Ferrari and Lamborghini who sold cars for more than twice as much but couldn't match those performance numbers? Ferrari and Lamborghini are still selling as many cars as they ever have, while the Model S is languishing. The takeaway is, when you start spending that kind of money on a car, specs and performance count for less than style, build quality, heritage, and exclusivity.
To put it another way: remember when Tesla released the $120k Model S Plaid which could do 0-60 in 2 seconds and all the fanboys were saying that was the end of Ferrari and Lamborghini who sold cars for more than twice as much but couldn't match those performance numbers? Ferrari and Lamborghini are still selling as many cars as they ever have, while the Model S is languishing. The takeaway is, when you start spending that kind of money on a car, specs and performance count for less than style, build quality, heritage, and exclusivity.
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Those comments echo a bit of what was said by traditional (primarily Swiss) watch makers about the Apple Watch. It is going about as well as the iPhone did for previous phone manufacturers.
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It doesn't look like legacy car makers will be able to compete in the digital space that is the modern vehicle infotainment system and associated digital features. They can only compete on materials and set dressing essentially, and who knows how long luxury consumers will be lured away by quality and heritage.
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Luxury is synonymous with quality and refinement, and as technology is becoming a larger part of our car experience something definitely needs to change for EU luxury car makers in regards to software. Either that or a complete 180, going fully back to analogue dials and controls. This feels like a analogue vs quartz watch moment in time for the car industry.
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What's the point of a luxury brand if it's not an obvious, ostentatious display of wealth? If you're driving a Bentley, and people aren't looking at your car and saying, hey, a Bentley, ooh, then you've flushed all your money down the loo.
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It depends on the manufacturer. Honestly, if there is a legacy manufacturer that understands the Chinese market, it's probably GM. They’ve been going full freight on EVs and seem to understand Chinese design preferences. A modern Cadillac wouldn't look out of place compared to some of the Chinese manufacturers
What will hamper GM however is the current political situation.
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What is Bentley supposed to do about wealth inequality? Start handing out cars to poor people?
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But (and I say this as a former "track day" rat with an old corvette, very tall gears and did not get "exciting" until into triple digit speeds):
Nobody buys a Ferrari to drive 60 miles per hour.
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The snobbish declaration that only Britain, Italy and Germany can make true luxury cars is BS.
But exactly the sort of snobbish bullshit their target customers want to hear.
e.g. France has a pretty good heritage when it comes to automotive history, or don't Bugatti count?
Or the (previous generation) Toyota Century, built to chauffeur the Emperor?
But exactly the sort of snobbish bullshit their target customers want to hear.
e.g. France has a pretty good heritage when it comes to automotive history, or don't Bugatti count?
Or the (previous generation) Toyota Century, built to chauffeur the Emperor?
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BobbyBobberson
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Top speed is more exciting than acceleration, in my opinion.
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"I don't want to be arrogant, but having what is considered a car in the luxury segment needs more than just technology. It's honestly only Germany, Italy, and the UK. You need heritage, you need the craftsmanship behind, you need the storytelling and everything with it. That builds up an actual brand."
Wait. A Bentley is not a 'luxury car', it's an affectation. You don't spend $200,000 or more on a car because you need to take the kids to soccer practice. People that buy Bentleys are named Bezos and Musk and the like. It lets people know how 'cool' they are.
"The thing that sets Bentley or Rolls-Royce apart the most is the hand-built and often bespoke nature of the vehicles."
Triumphs TR 6 was also hand built. And it was a terrific car. When it ran. If you owned a brand new TR 6, the first thing you'd do is hire a mechanic, because you're going to need one. So it seems that being 'hand built' is a bit over rated.
The reality is that a Bentley is not really a car, any more than Bezos' yacht with comically large tits on the front of it is a boat. People that buy a Bentley do so to show people like me that they are cooler than I am. Like Elon. I have no doubt he owns several Bentleys. Because he is that cool.
Of course, right now Elon is standing in a corner pissing his pants because he is a fucking drug addict. I really don't mind not being as cool as Elon.
Wait. A Bentley is not a 'luxury car', it's an affectation. You don't spend $200,000 or more on a car because you need to take the kids to soccer practice. People that buy Bentleys are named Bezos and Musk and the like. It lets people know how 'cool' they are.
"The thing that sets Bentley or Rolls-Royce apart the most is the hand-built and often bespoke nature of the vehicles."
Triumphs TR 6 was also hand built. And it was a terrific car. When it ran. If you owned a brand new TR 6, the first thing you'd do is hire a mechanic, because you're going to need one. So it seems that being 'hand built' is a bit over rated.
The reality is that a Bentley is not really a car, any more than Bezos' yacht with comically large tits on the front of it is a boat. People that buy a Bentley do so to show people like me that they are cooler than I am. Like Elon. I have no doubt he owns several Bentleys. Because he is that cool.
Of course, right now Elon is standing in a corner pissing his pants because he is a fucking drug addict. I really don't mind not being as cool as Elon.
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On one hand, a luxury car having hand stitched alligator interior, ebony wood dash, and 100 way adjustable heated, cooled, and massaging seats doesn't care what the propulsive power system of the car actually is. On the other, most of the top end car brands such as Bugatti and Rolls Royce also built their reputation on their engines whether for insane speed or ultimate comfort and both of those can be achieved much more easily with an EV. I think all the luxury car brands had a bit of a renaissance in the last couple decades as wealth concentration kicked into high gear but I think they have a tough road to stay relevant in any significant volume over the next 20-50 years as EVs make many of the selling points much more common. I'm sure at least some will just move even higher up to be even more "exclusive".
As an aside, the idea that there is even a market for multiple million dollar NEW cars built from a factory is a bit nauseating to be honest. I can be sold on rare old cars going for that kind of money but when someone is dropping 8 figures for a new Bugatti or similar that is more a damnation of capitalism than a celebration of modern luxury.
As an aside, the idea that there is even a market for multiple million dollar NEW cars built from a factory is a bit nauseating to be honest. I can be sold on rare old cars going for that kind of money but when someone is dropping 8 figures for a new Bugatti or similar that is more a damnation of capitalism than a celebration of modern luxury.
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Meanwhile, in the US, the strategy has become “BURN MOAR OIL, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS”
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That EXP 15 looks like a Polestar at first glance. Maybe some of that cartoonish Jaguar render too. But I don't see any Bentley in there apart from the rear shoulders. Really not sure what they're going for with it.
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Sure. Any Ferrari is "fast enough", and it's going to make glorious noises while doing so, that's part of the appeal of a Ferrari. What people got wrong was thinking that the fact that the Model S Plaid was faster 0-60 actually diminished the appeal of a Ferrari, when the truth is, any given Ferrari has rarely ever been the fastest accelerating, fastest in a straight line, fastest around a particular racetrack, etc., etc.,
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If you went by a sports stadium on a non game day but when the team is there for practice, many times the parking lot would be way overly represented by Bentley's. At least 20 years ago. Now days I don't know which models are "hot" and used to show up who has money.
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I don't see Millennials or Gen Z placing value on legacy and heritage -- or even car ownership. The only hope brands like Rolls Royce and Bentley have is creating a luxury robocar service that these generations will value as Instagramable experiences.
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jm_leviathan
Ars Scholae Palatinae
In the realm of Chinese vehicles and irrelevant wank, more interesting is BYD Yangwang U9 Track Edition setting a new top speed record for a production electric car of 294mph/472kph:
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I think two external factors are having a big impact here:
Tesla hasn't refreshed the Model S in years and years. Tesla is boring. Even the CyberTruck wrap-film hasn't been refreshed. Ferrari is especially fond of releasing lots of limited edition new models, including the excellent F80 this year.
Tesla resale value has dropped through the floor, so if you are wealthy on paper and living on loans against stock in a volatile market it makes any other luxury car a better value than the CyberTruck, with which you will be CyberStuck when even Tesla won't take your trade-in.
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Bentley has produced some absolutely stunning classics but nothing in the past decade+ has really been impressive to me. Is it just getting older that does it, where you're more and more cognizant of the fact that their cars are all unobtainable? The greater awareness of income inequality, and seeing people drop more than my house on a car they barely touch? I'm finding it hard to drum up sympathy for the brand's headwinds in China, or anywhere for that matter. The market they serve isn't one I'm too worried about.
Also, I find Chinese domestic car model names to be interesting. A lot of "Name + alphanumeric", where in the US it's almost always one or the other. Just a fun difference in consumer preferences.
Also, I find Chinese domestic car model names to be interesting. A lot of "Name + alphanumeric", where in the US it's almost always one or the other. Just a fun difference in consumer preferences.
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If I had the spare cash to afford a Bentley, I would much prefer a modern rendition of the Blue Train Special instead of the yet another shaped like a bar of soap EXP 15. Plus the EXP label reminds me of the Ford EXP economy car of the 80's
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I'm sure that quote is going up somewhere in the GM Technical Center in Warren, MI, USA, where Cadillac is hand-building $400K+ Celestiq BEVs.
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Imagine driving a quarter million dollars around and not feeling ashamed of yourself.
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Really? My drivers will be delighted when I gift each one of these for Christmas next year. As far as Bentley goes, however, the Flying Spur is the closest the company comes to a car for those who are driven.
/s
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I got out of a plane in Amsterdam last weekend. Chinese and Korean EV cars dominated the taxis.
The problem with Volkwagen (owner of Bentley) is that it does not have the tech to compete - neither on the EV nor on the ICE/hybrid market. And it's forced into adopting brutal cost-saving measures that now affects its Audi brand. Skoda sales are relatively strong thanks to the brand's dominance on the fleet market in Central and parts of Western Europe.
So it needs to play the heritage card in the upper market segments but that market is shrinking and the largest car market in the world, China, is deeply not-interested.
BTW, Skoda used to sell tens of thousands cars in China. Now it literally sells cars in 2-digit volumes a month.
The problem with Volkwagen (owner of Bentley) is that it does not have the tech to compete - neither on the EV nor on the ICE/hybrid market. And it's forced into adopting brutal cost-saving measures that now affects its Audi brand. Skoda sales are relatively strong thanks to the brand's dominance on the fleet market in Central and parts of Western Europe.
So it needs to play the heritage card in the upper market segments but that market is shrinking and the largest car market in the world, China, is deeply not-interested.
BTW, Skoda used to sell tens of thousands cars in China. Now it literally sells cars in 2-digit volumes a month.
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That probably depends on what their core market is, In Asia many people who are buying this class of car have drivers so for them the tech bells and whistles are popular.
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I'm surprised that that was downvoted because I completely agree.
What would be interesting would be to see all that R&D spent on something that looked like a real Bentley but complying with modern safety standards, with a modern power train, and with everything working perfectly.
It's probably technically impossible, only Morgan comes close to what it was, but it would be interesting if someone tried. Though a supercharger emerging from under the radiator might be a hard sell to NCAP.
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No you don't. You need those things to justify insane price tags and profit margins. Bentley is afraid of someone selling what they sell for a fraction of the cost - an objective car, not a story.
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You’re mostly right but style is at best a moving target and definitely de gustibus, build quality won’t be a problem for much longer (and if you include reliability here then you probably want to stay away from the luxury market), and exclusivity comes from the price.
Price is actually one of the things precluding any Tesla from touching that market besides the build quality and bargain bin interiors. You can’t sell a cheap luxury car, they’re Veblen goods.
So the only real hurdle is heritage. But this comes naturally by offering the other 3 to a degree for some time.
So I agree that Bentley has nothing to worry about for tomorrow. But in 10 or 20 years? The luxury market narrows as “regular” cars start ticking the same boxes at more down to earth prices and eating the bottom of the luxury segment. As far as luxury brands go Bentley is anyway not the creme de la creme so they have less leeway to just coast. Present image and “heritage” can only get them so far.
Asia obviously has different tastes and brand preferences and growing faster than anything else. Losing that market already would hit any brand hard. Losing the market to brands which are making leaps and bounds is that much worse for legacy luxury brands.
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fellow human
Ars Praefectus
There's a world of grey between building blatant symbols of excess for the rich and handing out vehicles to the poor. But I wasn't suggesting they do something, I was imagining their reaction to inequality. Probably either "meh" or "bring it on" since they benefit from it.
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Non-sports Porsche: Audi with a very expensive badge.
Audi: VW with a €5000 badge.
Skoda: VW with a €5000 badge.
That's the explanation right there. In fact I bought a Skoda as a commuter in 2000, the number of parts with 4 rings on under the bonnet was impressive.
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I would agree, but I used to live not that far away from Crewe and was aquainted with various 'regular guys (and gals)' who worked there. That was what kept the proverbial wolf from their doors. If someone with a lot drops more than your house on a car and barely touches it, then more fool them because the people who made it got to have bread on the table.
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Easy...
And the most important: build a shell of sorts that can be body-paneled differently, easily. Remember that coachbuilders were your bread and butter when you mattered. Make your body skins and panels easily replaceable, and partner with (or officially spin off) coach creators.
PS: None of this will of course matter, because cars are not ultraluxury anymore. The ultra rich living on Champs Elysees or Fifth Avenue don't need cars anymore. Not needing a car is the real luxury nowadays. Crab-walk for parking ? Used to be a time no Bentley owner would care about parking. They'd either drive to receptions on gravel paths with always wide left turns to reach a valet, or be chauffeured. Parking was never their business. The second you need to worry about parking, you're barely in Bentley territory anymore.
Tight turn radius is another story, those villas in Rome and Luxemburg and whatnot are often hidden behind tight little streets and corniches.
- Ditch all screens or make them concealed at will.
- Keep ergonomic knobs and buttons with satisfying tactile feel.
- If you need to go EV - invest heavily into haptics and sound. If a Civic Hybrid can feel like an Acura Integra on acceleration, sounds, feeling of shifting and all - you can make yours feel like a V12 all the way.
And the most important: build a shell of sorts that can be body-paneled differently, easily. Remember that coachbuilders were your bread and butter when you mattered. Make your body skins and panels easily replaceable, and partner with (or officially spin off) coach creators.
PS: None of this will of course matter, because cars are not ultraluxury anymore. The ultra rich living on Champs Elysees or Fifth Avenue don't need cars anymore. Not needing a car is the real luxury nowadays. Crab-walk for parking ? Used to be a time no Bentley owner would care about parking. They'd either drive to receptions on gravel paths with always wide left turns to reach a valet, or be chauffeured. Parking was never their business. The second you need to worry about parking, you're barely in Bentley territory anymore.
Tight turn radius is another story, those villas in Rome and Luxemburg and whatnot are often hidden behind tight little streets and corniches.
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I mean, if the British marques were that good at it, they wouldn't almost all be under foreign ownership now.
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