GM kills more than CarPlay support, it kills choice

The software-driven vehicle is supposed to be a place of choice.

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[OrangeCream]

I suspect that’s exactly what they think. The Ars Technica comments section, while wise in the way of tech, isn’t a good representative sample of the general population.

GM probably thinks many will look at it as a balance - much like selecting a car off the lot vs ordering one to exact specs comes with some trade offs.

I think GM is wrong. Rather, I think GM is going to lose car sales due to this.

 

[OrangeCream]

Car manufacturer's shouldn't cede their infotainment systems to tech companies. By now, most companies should know not to let big tech come in and take over

Just like phone manufacturers shouldn’t cede their OSes to tech companies, right?

Most car companies don’t have the necessary skill set to create an infotainment system, which happens to be a computer.

You know what a head unit is, right? Car manufacturers don’t make those today.

You also know what else they don’t make either? Computers.

 

[Auie]

The software-driven vehicle is supposed to be a place of choice.

Lolwat? What on Earth gave you that idea, given that this is a GM product?

 

[OrangeCream]

I am happy with just Bluetooth integration, I just listen to Podcasts while I am driving and Waze runs in the background of my phone. If a car company tries to force me to use Apple or Google interfaces I will find another car company.

Funny, that’s exactly why people are complaining about GM.

 

[OrangeCream]

I wonder what terms Google offered that Apple was unwilling to match? Presumably it was about money, but what if GM asked to see source code for security reasons and Apple refused because, you know, Apple. Then his article would be very irresponsible.

What are you talking about?

 

[OrangeCream]

As awfull crap as CarPlay and Android Auto is, I have never seen car manufacturer make any touch interfaces not infinitely crappier, and honestly don't expect them to. Not sure what is wrong with UI designers working in the auto industry, but there definitely is something wrong with them, at least when making touch interfaces.

There’s nothing wrong with them. They just aren’t computer manufacturers.

 

[OrangeCream]

I don’t know if it’s really about CarPlay or AndroidAuto, it seems like it’s more about using our favorite apps. Who cares through what framework it is delivered. I want Message interaction, Audible, Spotify, etc. I know I know - messages are in a closed ecosystem, but just fix that and allow a message to be viewed/read and then a voice reply. I don’t need additional message richness in a car while driving. I drive a Tesla. I hated not having CarPlay… until I appreciated the battery and charger network integration. I no longer want CarPlay. I just want my apps to work.

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-electric-vehicle-routing-iphc5e3a4b4b/ios
When you get driving directions, Maps can track your vehicle’s charge. By analyzing elevation changes along the route and other factors, Maps identifies appropriate charging stations along the way. If you drive until your charge gets too low, you’re offered a route to the nearest compatible charging station.

 

[OrangeCream]

It means Apple Maps or Google Maps can’t plan for charging breaks for an EV on long-distance drives longer than the battery capacity the way Tesla’s built-in navigation can.

Or more likely that if they do implement something like this (Google Maps seems to have a way to do this), they won’t offer only GM charging stations as an option. So cornering the market on charging may be part of the equation.

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-electric-vehicle-routing-iphc5e3a4b4b/ios
When you get driving directions, Maps can track your vehicle’s charge. By analyzing elevation changes along the route and other factors, Maps identifies appropriate charging stations along the way. If you drive until your charge gets too low, you’re offered a route to the nearest compatible charging station.

 

[OrangeCream]

CarPlay is awesome, but reading why GM is doing this and it makes sense. If you have an EV with somewhat self-driving capabilities, it makes sense you'd want the car systems integrated with the navigation function. 99% of my usage of CarPlay is for navigation but unless the car can tap into the phones telemetrics reliably and in real-time, a self driving EV UX is going to be very clunky especially for a longer road trip.

If they can figure out a way to play high-res audio that CarPlay allows for, I'm okay with them ditching CarPlay as long as the infotainment is high quality.

Sounds like you want CarPlay 2.0

https://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/This next generation of CarPlay is the ultimate iPhone experience for the car. It provides content for all the driver’s screens including the instrument cluster, ensuring a cohesive design experience that is the very best of your car and your iPhone. Vehicle functions like radio and temperature controls are handled right from CarPlay. And personalization options ranging from widgets to selecting curated gauge cluster designs make it unique to the driver.

 

[graylshaped]

I think GM is wrong. Rather, I think GM is going to lose car sales due to this.

Their calculation may well be based on the margin of car sales, the margin of supporting a huge dealer network, vs a steady stream of "free money."

That is speculation, obviously. And, if true, somewhat shortsighted on GM's part.

 

[graylshaped]

Sounds like you want CarPlay 2.0

https://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/This next generation of CarPlay is the ultimate iPhone experience for the car. It provides content for all the driver’s screens including the instrument cluster, ensuring a cohesive design experience that is the very best of your car and your iPhone. Vehicle functions like radio and temperature controls are handled right from CarPlay. And personalization options ranging from widgets to selecting curated gauge cluster designs make it unique to the driver.

"Hey, Siri. Set cruise control to 80."

 

[alecw]

I don't suppose this is an April Fool's joke where they just got the timing wrong and released the announcement a day early?

 

[Thorganby]

If you can't listen to music while driving, please surrender your license. The rest of us would appreciate it.

https://www.rse.org.nz/music-and-driving/

 

[tumblrfan69]

It means Apple Maps or Google Maps can’t plan for charging breaks for an EV on long-distance drives longer than the battery capacity the way Tesla’s built-in navigation can.

Or more likely that if they do implement something like this (Google Maps seems to have a way to do this), they won’t offer only GM charging stations as an option. So cornering the market on charging may be part of the equation.

Yeah Apple Maps definitely could offer charging stops as part of the routes. It already knows where EV chargers are on the map, it's just a matter of a little bit of bidirectional communication between the car and the phone to declare its estimated range and Maps to leverage that in planning a reroute for charging.

EDIT: Apparently it can do this already.

 

[gotak]

To those saying carplay doesn't integrate fully with the car, next generation Carplay fixes that.

And that could be a trigger for a lot of makers to rethink due to branding. And also everyone makes it so simple that CarPlay and AA somehow magically works with whatever new car that supports it. Imagine how can CC support all the possible features. Might not work as easily if they don’t just do a single infotainment screen

CNET claims no license fee or royalty payments for CarPlay:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bmw-carplay-fee-highway-robbery/

Yeah and that’s not entirely correct as MFi is real and there are lots of business build up around it.

 

[tumblrfan69]

And that could be a trigger for a lot of makers to rethink due to branding. And also everyone makes it so simple that CarPlay and AA somehow magically works with whatever new car that supports it. Imagine how can CC support all the possible features. Might not work as easily if they don’t just do a single infotainment screen

Yeah and that’s not entirely correct as MFi is real and there are lots of business build up around it.

MFi costs $100/year.

That's literally free for a car maker.

 

[theSeb]

Car manufacturers are still butt hurt about losing that sweet map update revenue due to smart phones. This is the result.

 

[InIgnem]

Not surprised, but I will not buy any car in the future that doesn't offer CarPlay, full stop. At that point, I'd have to rip out the head unit and put in a carplay compatible one, so I'm sure the aftermarket ill continue to thrive in used cars. But who wants to pay full new car price and it not have basic functionality or worse, requires some crappy app or even worse, a subscription that locks up too often to use their cars functionality. Good luck, GM.

 

[tumblrfan69]

Car manufacturers are still butt hurt about losing that sweet map update revenue due to smart phones. This is the result.

You got me to look into this becuase I haven't thought about updating my cars map in 2 years and I realized that for Kia (and Hyundai) it's free.

 

[Lee L]

Wow. Talk about herd mentality. Everyone is trying to jump on the subscription gravy train without any concept of what it means and the work involved. GM is an auto manufacturer not a software company. Do they really think they're going to spin up a complete software organization to build all these apps and then keep them up-to-date? Or did they think others were going to gratuitously build apps for their new walled ecosystem of only GM cars? Or did they think Google was going to write all these new apps for them (have they seen Googles attention span)?

I've seen this BS play out before. Senior management believes software development is simple and can't fathom why their little project is sucking up a ton of money, is years late, and the users hate it (and them).

Meanwhile, what are they really going to monetize? I'm already paying for my music streaming service. Why would I pay for another one? Maps and directions are free on my phone today. Why would I pay for the service? What else are they going to charge for? The app to find the recharging stations?

They see you're willing to pay for those services and think you'll be willing to pay GM for them to let you use them in the car.

 

[ColdWetDog]

"Hey, Siri. Set cruise control to 80."

"I'm sorry, I can't find the album 'Cruise Control'...... That's what Siri would tell me. Not a chance in Hell that I'd let Siri in it's current incantation control anything more dangerous than the cabin fan.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

It's really only a senseless argument, if you ignore UX and human factors involved.

My guess is that Apple didn't want to play ball by giving the manufacturer the ability to override some of the CarPlay experience, so they had to do what Tesla has been doing (and Tesla is well known to have the best charging experience of all the EV platforms).

No, it's a senseless argument. Why would it matter to the driving assist system (we are so far away from actually autonomous driving, none of the cars coming with this software will ever be fully autonomous) what device is streaming music?

My car has AA/CarPlay and it can drive itself hands-free on the highway. Because what is running Spotify has nothing to do with driving the car.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

https://www.rse.org.nz/music-and-driving/

If you're blasting music so loud you can't hear sirens on emergency vehicles, you're an idiot. And you'll have hearing loss soon enough.

 

[mr_nobody]

CarPlay or bust.

Aaaand this is a bust.

 

[jjduru]

Apple carplay (like iOS) is 2012's tech..TODAY!

who wants a decades-old walled garden where you have to rebuy all your content, can never leave AND it has an interface that should have died out with the early 2010s?

You must be one of those android fanbois, who doesn't get it.

 

[gotak]

MFi costs $100/year.

That's literally free for a car maker.

And who does the certification? Apple? Come on.. are people so used to the “free” service world they forget everything has a cost.

 

[watermeloncup]

And who does the certification? Apple? Come on.. are people so used to the “free” service world they forget everything has a cost.

Yes it has a cost in that GM has to pay some employees to implement Apple's requirements for CarPlay, but who cares? The extra implementation work must be trivial if Nissan can include CarPlay in a base model Versa (cheapest car in the US).

 

[Deleted member 730095]

If you're blasting music so loud you can't hear sirens on emergency vehicles, you're an idiot. And you'll have hearing loss soon enough.

Deaf people can legally drive in all 50 states in the US. So, you basically (accidentally) called all deaf drivers idiots for not being able to hear sirens.

Speaking of avoiding hearing loss, many motorcyclists wear helmets that cover theirs ears which deadens a lot of external sound (wind noise is still an issue). Some motorcyclists also wear ear plugs or ear buds for hearing protection. I personally have been unable to hear a siren while wearing a full-face helmet until I could already see the vehicle anyway in my mirror and it was fairly close at that point. This was at a stop so wind and engine noise weren't a factor.

Hearing isn't a requirement for safe driving although it can sometimes help.

On topic, I just purchased a 21 Colorado and it is my first vehicle with CarPlay. It is a game changer for navigating safely with GPS, little to no benefit for other things at the moment for me. The important part is that it is available and I can choose to use it or not. Completely removing choice like GM is trying to do is so incredibly anti-consumer.

edit: I misunderstood the quoted post. I only stand by the last paragraph.

 

[KeyboardWeeb]

You must be too young to remember the pre-GPS navigation days. Holding a map in one hand, sneaking glances at it to figure out where your next turn is, and then refolding the map in your lap when you drive off the edge of the map.

Back in the day I'd study the map beforehand and write directions on a sticky note or small notepad, which I then would either attach to the steering wheel or just hold it while driving. In the early days of getting directions from the internet I'd print out a page with the map and directions, and then make a separate printout with small text, so I could make a small paper to hold in my hand or tape to the wheel. I don't think I ever dared actually try to look at a paper map while actually moving.

CNET claims no license fee or royalty payments for CarPlay:

Man. My Mazda dealership apparently charges $430 to install AA or CarPlay. For that price I think I'll just keep on rollin without...

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Deaf people can legally drive in all 50 states in the US. So, you basically (accidentally) called all deaf drivers idiots for not being able to hear sirens.

Speaking of avoiding hearing loss, many motorcyclists wear helmets that cover theirs ears which deadens a lot of external sound (wind noise is still an issue). Some motorcyclists also wear ear plugs or ear buds for hearing protection. I personally have been unable to hear a siren while wearing a full-face helmet until I could already see the vehicle anyway in my mirror and it was fairly close at that point. This was at a stop so wind and engine noise weren't a factor.

Hearing isn't a requirement for safe driving although it can sometimes help.

On topic, I just purchased a 21 Colorado and it is my first vehicle with CarPlay. It is a game changer for navigating safely with GPS, little to no benefit for other things at the moment for me. The important part is that it is available and I can choose to use it or not. Completely removing choice like GM is trying to do is so incredibly anti-consumer.

No, I called people who listen to music at loud levels dangerous to their hearing idiots.

The linked "study" claimed that people listen to music so loud they can't hear sirens and that's a safety issue. That wasn't my claim.

 

[Deleted member 730095]

No, I called people who listen to music at loud levels dangerous to their hearing idiots.

The linked "study" claimed that people listen to music so loud they can't hear sirens and that's a safety issue. That wasn't my claim.

Whoops. My apologies then.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Whoops. My apologies then.

No problem.

 

[Hemlocke]

As a Cadillac Blackwing owner, this is not great news. I love my car, but this ends any future investment consideration into this company's offerings. I hope the thirty pieces of silver Google offered them was worth it. I understand this only applies to EVs, but this is the last generation of ICE Blackwings. I also believe when someone tells me who they are, and this tells me GM doesn't give a shit about what I and others like me want.

 

[Tagbert]

It means Apple Maps or Google Maps can’t plan for charging breaks for an EV on long-distance drives longer than the battery capacity the way Tesla’s built-in navigation can.

Or more likely that if they do implement something like this (Google Maps seems to have a way to do this), they won’t offer only GM charging stations as an option. So cornering the market on charging may be part of the equation.

CarPlay offers an optional integration where a car manufacturer can pass info about the vehicle and its battery charge and Apple Maps on CarPlay can do routing to chargers. Even without that battery information, charger locations are known and can be included in destinations for routing.

Regardless, using CarPlay and AndroidAuto doesn’t mean that you can’t use the car’s build in routing, it just means that there are alternatives and there are other, more personalized functions not provided by the vehicle.

 

[Tagbert]

Not surprised, but I will not buy any car in the future that doesn't offer CarPlay, full stop. At that point, I'd have to rip out the head unit and put in a carplay compatible one, so I'm sure the aftermarket ill continue to thrive in used cars. But who wants to pay full new car price and it not have basic functionality or worse, requires some crappy app or even worse, a subscription that locks up too often to use their cars functionality. Good luck, GM.

I’d be surprised if you could rip out the head unit and replace it with something else in a recent model EV (or ICE). They are pretty thoroughly integrated into the vehicles control system.

 

[graylshaped]

https://www.rse.org.nz/music-and-driving/

Anything comparable on podcasts?

Speaking purely anecdotally, some genres, such as soft jazz that seems to comport with the guidelines, make me drowsy, which is the opposite of what one would want. I also tend not to crank music loudly while driving--but do like the background noise. Then again, I also studied when in school with the local public station on playing classical music in the background.

 

[westernwear]

Ford wanted to charge me something like $75 to upgrade the maps package in my Lincoln MKZ (about six years ago). So I jut switched to my phone. They would do better partnering with the various phones and splitting the revenue. The car is the platform and the phone provides the interface. But no, go reinvent the wheel.

 

[ThinkingMore]

The only integration I need is bluetooth and a well designed phone holder.

 

[Thorganby]

Anything comparable on podcasts?

Speaking purely anecdotally, some genres, such as soft jazz that seems to comport with the guidelines, make me drowsy, which is the opposite of what one would want. I also tend not to crank music loudly while driving--but do like the background noise. Then again, I also studied when in school with the local public station on playing classical music in the background.

I haven't found anything on podcasts - with the popularity of them these days it's certainly an area worth investigating. In a similar vein, I don't think radio interviews and documentaries have been looked at either. Talk radio is probably carries the risk of being too emotionally engaging.

 

[ScreamingFist]

Here's an interesting wrinkle; if your car depends on your Google account, what happens if it gets banned? Not worried about that? Well, ask mobile developers what happens if they hire someone who's got a banned account that they didn't know about: typically the developer will be threatened with their business accounts being banned for the association.

Will you get banned-by-association in the company car? If someone who drives your car gets their account lock? A rental?