RealPage worked with some of the nation’s largest landlords to raise rents, says lawsuit.
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This one is interesting. I did a business exercise a few years ago where we had to figure out if gas stations posting their prices on the signs should count as collusion since their competitors can look and then adjust prices, and if that helps them raise prices and unofficially fix them as a group. This software reminds me of the same thing in that it's just a shortcut to looking at a bunch of price sheets.
Next go after the airbnb and the home flippers. If you look at realstate listing, you literally see flippers taking 150k houses, apply fake wood floor and coat of paint then flipping it for 300k.
Next go after the airbnb and the home flippers. If you look at realstate listing, you literally see flippers taking 150k houses, apply fake wood floor and coat of paint then flipping it for 300k.
Yep. Gas is often sold at or near cost with next to no margin. Almost a loss-leader. That's why all the stuff INSIDE the store is a buck or three more than anywhere else.This one is interesting. I did a business exercise a few years ago where we had to figure out if gas stations posting their prices on the signs should count as collusion since their competitors can look and then adjust prices, and if that helps them raise prices and unofficially fix them as a group. This software reminds me of the same thing in that it's just a shortcut to looking at a bunch of price sheets.
Oh boy, just wait until you hear that Gas Stations have been using this exact same kind of software for a looooooong time (PriceAdvantage/Kalibrate). No need to even look out the window or adjust the prices yourself!
Most stations don't have the freedom to adjust prices anyway. It's usually set by the suppliers, who quite obviously collude on it. But the stations themselves make very little on gas sales. It's all the other stuff that people come in and buy that makes them money.
Next go after the airbnb and the home flippers. If you look at realstate listing, you literally see flippers taking 150k houses, apply fake wood floor and coat of paint then flipping it for 300k.
Stop buying 300K houses that sold for 150K a few months earlier?
This one is interesting. I did a business exercise a few years ago where we had to figure out if gas stations posting their prices on the signs should count as collusion since their competitors can look and then adjust prices, and if that helps them raise prices and unofficially fix them as a group. This software reminds me of the same thing in that it's just a shortcut to looking at a bunch of price sheets.
Second reaction: Cartels only have power when there is a shortage.
Things are pretty ugly in my town. With borrowing rates being so low, a couple of large investment groups from Denver borrowed a shit ton of money and basically bought up everything up here. From what I've seen, rents are up over 40% in the last 18 months, and there's nothing anybody can do because it's the same people that own everything. I wonder if something like this software gave them the idea that they could walk into the market here and clean up or if they just had the business plan or creating a monopoly.
They have functionally outsourced their collusion to a third party.It is an interesting concept. Indirect collusion through a third party. Collusion may not have even been the original intent, but widespread success in the landlord marketplace has made it a fact.
In the tech industry, they call Bob a salary consultant as in we use a salary consultant to set our salaries at competitive market levels.This one is interesting. I did a business exercise a few years ago where we had to figure out if gas stations posting their prices on the signs should count as collusion since their competitors can look and then adjust prices, and if that helps them raise prices and unofficially fix them as a group. This software reminds me of the same thing in that it's just a shortcut to looking at a bunch of price sheets.
It's not the same at all. In the earlier article an expert was quoted suggesting that the algorithm could be replaced with a "guy named Bob" and the problem becomes more obvious.
In the gas station analogy, it would be equivalent to hiring a guy named Bob to set your prices, and Bob also works for your competitors in the area doing the same "service." That's pretty clearly collusion.
Next go after the airbnb and the home flippers. If you look at realstate listing, you literally see flippers taking 150k houses, apply fake wood floor and coat of paint then flipping it for 300k.
Stop buying 300K houses that sold for 150K a few months earlier?
Because it's the only house left after the comerical landlords brought everything? I can either pay a landlord a ridiculous price or own a home after paying a ridiculous price.
Maybe you should recommend to ProPublica that they write a story about that too.This one is interesting. I did a business exercise a few years ago where we had to figure out if gas stations posting their prices on the signs should count as collusion since their competitors can look and then adjust prices, and if that helps them raise prices and unofficially fix them as a group. This software reminds me of the same thing in that it's just a shortcut to looking at a bunch of price sheets.
Oh boy, just wait until you hear that Gas Stations have been using this exact same kind of software for a looooooong time (PriceAdvantage/Kalibrate). No need to even look out the window or adjust the prices yourself!
I expect the gotcha here to be the access that RealPage has to non-public data. It's basically the same as two landlords not saying they'll collude to raise prices but putting all of their private rental data on the other's doorstep. Makes it really easy to figure out what the other's going to do if you can see all of the information they use to make decisions on and, thus, what you can get away with.In a whole lot of industries, there is a sort of "soft cartel" anyhow. I mean, I do hope they bust this app and the landlords using it, but. . .
In most industries, there is at the minimum, all participants tracking the pricing of "the market" and raising prices accordingly.
When someone’s idea or need to enrich themselves screws everyone else over in a major way. Yes, it’s LSC.Interesting. When does a 'business idea' become an 'illegal racket'? Is this another sign of 'late stage capitalism'?
Not here to defend capitalism, but thats like, every idea to enrich ones self since the beginning of time. Early colonialism wasn't capitalism, neither were viking raids. Too broad a definition. Late stage capitalism isn't the first appearance of powerful people screwing everyone they can get their hands on for more power.
Things are pretty ugly in my town. With borrowing rates being so low, a couple of large investment groups from Denver borrowed a shit ton of money and basically bought up everything up here. From what I've seen, rents are up over 40% in the last 18 months, and there's nothing anybody can do because it's the same people that own everything. I wonder if something like this software gave them the idea that they could walk into the market here and clean up or if they just had the business plan or creating a monopoly.
In a whole lot of industries, there is a sort of "soft cartel" anyhow. I mean, I do hope they bust this app and the landlords using it, but. . .
In most industries, there is at the minimum, all participants tracking the pricing of "the market" and raising prices accordingly.
Yes... rental property owners working together to crank up rent to an amount where people feel even more squeezed and/or live from paycheque to paycheque is such a non-problem that we should ignore.Oh no.
Anyway...
I won't deny there are some industries like that, but I used to work for a company selling a commodity with only a few big vendors, and we tried pushing through price increases combined with a press release announcing the increase to the market. Instead of following our lead, our competitors dropped prices slightly, and we ended up losing 80% of our volume for the quarter. Didn't get it back until we reversed course and dropped prices below where we'd been before the announced price increase. And we had something like 30% market share before the announcement.In a whole lot of industries, there is a sort of "soft cartel" anyhow. I mean, I do hope they bust this app and the landlords using it, but. . .
In most industries, there is at the minimum, all participants tracking the pricing of "the market" and raising prices accordingly.
Except everyone's going to be "looking a few miles outside the area" because a lot of people are being priced out of the market.Next go after the airbnb and the home flippers. If you look at realstate listing, you literally see flippers taking 150k houses, apply fake wood floor and coat of paint then flipping it for 300k.
Stop buying 300K houses that sold for 150K a few months earlier?
Because it's the only house left after the comerical landlords brought everything? I can either pay a landlord a ridiculous price or own a home after paying a ridiculous price.
They bought everything? How about looking a few miles outside the area. Sometimes you just have to be willing to compromise.
This app certainly doesn’t help, but housing becoming a speculative asset to put money in and not a roof over your head is what caused this.
Break the big conglomerates and ban things like hotel houses and that will also help a lot.
The problem is that we are not focused on exploitation of one person by another, and instead allow ourselves to be diverted to attacking something else. Every system of government or economics eventually devolves into serfdom of the many to hugely raise the living standards of the few if the abuse is not recognized and checked.Strange how the free market always steers towards turning people into serfs. Wonder why that is.
Yeah, decades of Republican propaganda have obfuscated the fact that this is an adversarial relationship.Interesting. When does a 'business idea' become an 'illegal racket'? Is this another sign of 'late stage capitalism'?
It's always been a thin line. Most of our terms (including "racket") for cartel-like activity date from a far earlier time. It's not so much "late stage capitalism" so much as "the eternal vigilance required to keep capitalism from turning into feudalism."
The PC government here actually did that, but who knows if that will actually do anything. (They predicted that it would take about two years to see the results of their tax plan.)This app certainly doesn’t help, but housing becoming a speculative asset to put money in and not a roof over your head is what caused this.
Break the big conglomerates and ban things like hotel houses and that will also help a lot.
Frankly, I'd go even further with single-family homes and make it ruinously expensive to own a house you don't live in. Eliminate the so-called passive-income aspect of home ownership and you get rid of landlords sitting on properties for years and letting them slowly decay until they can't squeeze any more money out of them. It'd be a lot easier for folks who just need a place to live if the market wasn't artificially inflated to suit the whims of capital.
I'll admit I don't have as neat a solution for apartments, and I think there should probably be some sort of rental market, but at the end of the day I think we, as a society, are going to have to start treating housing more like a right than a privilege before any of this gets meaningfully sorted out.
Interesting. When does a 'business idea' become an 'illegal racket'? Is this another sign of 'late stage capitalism'?
It's that this 3rd party was using non-public data across _different_ landlords to help set prices. Effectively helping the landlords form a cartel to help set prices higher than they otherwise have been. Also it pushed landlords to keep some units vacant in order to help push prices higher which contributes to the housing shortage.
Basically it ended up having the big landlords collude into setting higher prices through private data sharing and artificially reducing supply so the Market couldn't actually set real supply & demand rates.
If you read further, it also kept pushing higher yearly rent raises higher than humans would have, which was influenced by all that non-public data.
If the software used public data and _only_ the individual landlords data for each landlord, that'd have been a lot different.
Things are pretty ugly in my town. With borrowing rates being so low, a couple of large investment groups from Denver borrowed a shit ton of money and basically bought up everything up here. From what I've seen, rents are up over 40% in the last 18 months, and there's nothing anybody can do because it's the same people that own everything. I wonder if something like this software gave them the idea that they could walk into the market here and clean up or if they just had the business plan or creating a monopoly.
And the only way to fight them is have the economy tank, people go homeless, and those stupid investment groups go upsidedown.
Freakin 2008 all over again.
Since you agree that it's a seller's market, me doing my homework may mean that someone else might swoop in and put in an offer on the property sight unseen.Next go after the airbnb and the home flippers. If you look at realstate listing, you literally see flippers taking 150k houses, apply fake wood floor and coat of paint then flipping it for 300k.
Stop buying 300K houses that sold for 150K a few months earlier?
Do your homework when buying. Too many impulse sign because constrained inventory, pressure by realtors and others outbidding. Now we have Private Equity firms joining in the home purchasing to create portfolio of either rentals and/or resale to be the mortgager. Why have a lender like a bank (mortgages get traded like herpes nowadays) making the money when some PE can.
And about Flippers, go after the advertisers that sponsor these programs on cable. And states/counties that care more about making money off RADON tests than shoddy window installers.
The lawsuit said that RealPage’s software helps stagger lease renewals to artificially smooth out natural imbalances in supply and demand, which discourages landlords from undercutting pricing achieved by the cartel. Property managers “thus held vacant rental units unoccupied for periods of time (rejecting the historical adage to keep the ‘heads in the beds’) to ensure that, collectively, there is not one period in which the market faces an oversupply of residential real estate properties for lease, keeping prices higher,” it said. Such staggering helped the group avoid “a race to the bottom” on rents, the lawsuit said.
It's not just the prices. The article mentions staggering lease renewals. I rented from greystar a few years ago and they initially gave me a 11 month lease, which seemed like an odd unit of time to pick (but where happy to renew). I assumed they wanted to avoid rental protections for longer term leases but after reading this they probebrly wanted to stagger the start/end dates to artificialy drive the supply/demand curve.
Yeah, it's real mysterious how all the cell phones plans in Canada are near identical and massively overpriced.In a whole lot of industries, there is a sort of "soft cartel" anyhow. I mean, I do hope they bust this app and the landlords using it, but. . .
In most industries, there is at the minimum, all participants tracking the pricing of "the market" and raising prices accordingly.
This one is interesting. I did a business exercise a few years ago where we had to figure out if gas stations posting their prices on the signs should count as collusion since their competitors can look and then adjust prices, and if that helps them raise prices and unofficially fix them as a group. This software reminds me of the same thing in that it's just a shortcut to looking at a bunch of price sheets.
It's not the same at all. In the earlier article an expert was quoted suggesting that the algorithm could be replaced with a "guy named Bob" and the problem becomes more obvious.
In the gas station analogy, it would be equivalent to hiring a guy named Bob to set your prices, and Bob also works for your competitors in the area doing the same "service." That's pretty clearly collusion.
I won't deny there are some industries like that, but I used to work for a company selling a commodity with only a few big vendors, and we tried pushing through price increases combined with a press release announcing the increase to the market. Instead of following our lead, our competitors dropped prices slightly, and we ended up losing 80% of our volume for the quarter. Didn't get it back until we reversed course and dropped prices below where we'd been before the announced price increase. And we had something like 30% market share before the announcement.In a whole lot of industries, there is a sort of "soft cartel" anyhow. I mean, I do hope they bust this app and the landlords using it, but. . .
In most industries, there is at the minimum, all participants tracking the pricing of "the market" and raising prices accordingly.
There are times when our prices and competitors prices all went up at the same time, but it was usually when someone's plant was down for whatever reason (repairs, normal upkeep, the olympics shuttering plants in china, etc.). Supply/demand economics do still work most of the time.