High fossil fuel prices are good for the planet—here’s how to keep it that way
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I totally agree with this analysis. The increase in gas prices is a long term blessing in disguise.
As someone on the market for a new car in 2022, any gas option car became immediate 'persona non grata' for me. And given local demand, I know I am not the only one. By price gouging consumers world wide, the fossil fuel industry has only hastened its demise.
Its a pity however that our politicians are so short-sighted. Instead of planning appeasement trips to Saudi Arabia, governments globally should be taxing capital gains on fossil fuel companies, and using the dividends to invest in electric vehicle charging infrastructure.
As someone on the market for a new car in 2022, any gas option car became immediate 'persona non grata' for me. And given local demand, I know I am not the only one. By price gouging consumers world wide, the fossil fuel industry has only hastened its demise.
Its a pity however that our politicians are so short-sighted. Instead of planning appeasement trips to Saudi Arabia, governments globally should be taxing capital gains on fossil fuel companies, and using the dividends to invest in electric vehicle charging infrastructure.
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I think this take is quite short sighted. We can do progressive taxation without squeezing the lower income individuals, and green energy adoption didn’t stop during the low oil price years of the mid 2010s.
It’s all public policy, and as long as there’s an incentive system towards either green energy or fossil fuels the price of oil itself doesn’t matter. The US is not progressing any faster towards renewables just because fuel is more expensive, if anything oil companies now have more cash to buy politicians with.
It’s all public policy, and as long as there’s an incentive system towards either green energy or fossil fuels the price of oil itself doesn’t matter. The US is not progressing any faster towards renewables just because fuel is more expensive, if anything oil companies now have more cash to buy politicians with.
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“ consumers will not accept high prices”
Odd turn of phrase there. Rising prices, like rising sea level, are indifferent to consumers’ acceptance.
But I agree — high prices are good for reducing emissions. But also bad for political stability.
Odd turn of phrase there. Rising prices, like rising sea level, are indifferent to consumers’ acceptance.
But I agree — high prices are good for reducing emissions. But also bad for political stability.
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I believe it is the exact opposite. It is taking a long-sighted approach to solving our most critical issue; Not Inflation,....Extreme Climate change.
We have to get global temperatures below a 2C, and it wont happen without drastic change. And human history has consistently shown we humans resist change unless it is forced on us and we have to adapt. High fuel prices and inflationary pressures due to high fuel prices might be just the medicine we all need to take today to force the change we need to make for tomorrow.
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While I agree that higher pricing is good for the Planet (and Humanity) in the long term, for transitioning off of fossil fuels. The short term impacts on the middle class and particularly low income households is absolutely meteoric. It's all well and said until people are unable to drive to work, or drive to get food or are choosing between eating, heating and transportation. This situation is exasterbated in countries where the infrastructure necessary to support massive EV uptake is lagging or non-existent forcing households towards petrol engine cars because there is currently no practical, affordable alternative.
Squeeze the middle class enough and you may end up accidentally shooting down progressive legislation - running the risk of undoing the, regrettably little, progress we've already made.
Squeeze the middle class enough and you may end up accidentally shooting down progressive legislation - running the risk of undoing the, regrettably little, progress we've already made.
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The problem with this viewpoint is that it mostly relies on the poor and lower middle classes to bear the brunt of the economical and social burden. The rich won't *like* a 10x increase in price but they can definitely weather such an increase.
And in the end it will be the rich who benefit the most from the positive outcomes, not the "great unwashed masses" who struggle to pay rent and need to rely on food banks to survive.
Let me post this study from 2014:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4246304/
"Even a catastrophic mass mortality event of 2 billion deaths over a hypothetical 5-y window in the mid-21st century would still yield around 8.5 billion people by 2100."
Making the poor starve to death won't fix climate change.
And in the end it will be the rich who benefit the most from the positive outcomes, not the "great unwashed masses" who struggle to pay rent and need to rely on food banks to survive.
Let me post this study from 2014:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4246304/
"Even a catastrophic mass mortality event of 2 billion deaths over a hypothetical 5-y window in the mid-21st century would still yield around 8.5 billion people by 2100."
Making the poor starve to death won't fix climate change.
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I always thought gas was pretty cheap, because of what you have to do to get it.
it comes from parts of the world no one wants to work, Iran, Iraq, venezuela, nigeria, FUCKING TEXAS.
then you drill for it, pump it out of the ground and transport it to a terminal to load on a ship.
then it goes all the way across the world to sit for months on that same ship.
then it goes to a refinery, where it takes 30 days to refine and crack it, leaving the world polluted near those refineries.
then it goes into trucks to be taken to a gas station near you, to be consumed in your car, further fucking up the world.
compare with milk. every single state has milk cows, you milk the cow, homogenize it, and jug it up. then its delivered to a store near you and its always been 3 to 4 bucks a gallon........
it comes from parts of the world no one wants to work, Iran, Iraq, venezuela, nigeria, FUCKING TEXAS.
then you drill for it, pump it out of the ground and transport it to a terminal to load on a ship.
then it goes all the way across the world to sit for months on that same ship.
then it goes to a refinery, where it takes 30 days to refine and crack it, leaving the world polluted near those refineries.
then it goes into trucks to be taken to a gas station near you, to be consumed in your car, further fucking up the world.
compare with milk. every single state has milk cows, you milk the cow, homogenize it, and jug it up. then its delivered to a store near you and its always been 3 to 4 bucks a gallon........
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What alternative fuel? Wind and solar certainly cannot replace fossil fuels for vehicles.
In other words, the nice plan is short on details and feasibility.
BTW, 26 clicks to get past the captcha today. That's typical and that's excessive.
In other words, the nice plan is short on details and feasibility.
BTW, 26 clicks to get past the captcha today. That's typical and that's excessive.
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Maybe, oh, I don't know, repudiate neoliberal policy and stop assuming we can only fix things by lowering taxes on the rich?
You could have less fossil fuel use and less social instability, but that would involve government actually doing stuff. We haven't done stuff in decades, and it's to the point where governments being able to do anything that isn't awarding a contract or commissioning a study is practically heretical, especially in the US.
You could have less fossil fuel use and less social instability, but that would involve government actually doing stuff. We haven't done stuff in decades, and it's to the point where governments being able to do anything that isn't awarding a contract or commissioning a study is practically heretical, especially in the US.
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High gas prices will just lead to people electing right wing politicians who certainly aren't going to do anything about climate change or switching to renewable energy.
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In between the lines of this article the author admits that cheap, plentiful energy, is essential to our prosperity and on some level survival. Which I agree with.
Carbon production is far beyond just oil. We need to reinvent concrete, steel mills, hell car batteries have a long way to go. We are simply on the cusp of reinventing our entire modern production system.
High fuel prices prevent me from building greener buildings. They drive people to cheaper less reliable products, as more of the $/energy of total product production is wrapped up in transport vs creation and install. We just had a school force a re-design as the spiraling construction costs will prevent it from achieving any sort of green building status. Congrats world.
Carbon production is far beyond just oil. We need to reinvent concrete, steel mills, hell car batteries have a long way to go. We are simply on the cusp of reinventing our entire modern production system.
High fuel prices prevent me from building greener buildings. They drive people to cheaper less reliable products, as more of the $/energy of total product production is wrapped up in transport vs creation and install. We just had a school force a re-design as the spiraling construction costs will prevent it from achieving any sort of green building status. Congrats world.
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Clearly reasoned analysis that is possible to implement if one has total control of all economies across the globe. However as we presently are configured as nation states instead of a global economy, this will simply allow China to continue to use the more inexpensive forms of fuel provided by other countries outside of the western sphere of influence. China can then seal their influence around the world with their Belt and Road Initiative as they become the dominant world power. This may of course require that many in the west attend reeducation camps.
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For the most part, I would be just fine with using public transportation...if it existed in my area. The problem here is, we are forcing people to use public transportation and it either doesn't exist or is in such poor repair it causes even more problems. If we (United States) would be proactive and build out public transportation, this would have a far smaller impact on people...at least in high population areas. That of course leaves people such as farmers and rural living people out of the equation, no one is interested in making any kind of dependable public transportation available for those folks.
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Tone deaf? Try absurd!!
You know what else is bad for the environment? The war causing the skyrocketing prices.
You don't take away what people need unless you provide them with an alternative path. BEVs are unavailable at the moment and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. When they become ubiquitous, the demand for fossil fuel should nosedive automatically.
You know what else is bad for the environment? The war causing the skyrocketing prices.
You don't take away what people need unless you provide them with an alternative path. BEVs are unavailable at the moment and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. When they become ubiquitous, the demand for fossil fuel should nosedive automatically.
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Yup. That's a more realistic, rational and adult perspective in my view. Destroying western economies so that the east can rise up to overcome and dominate the world is not a winning plan.
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You can afford to choose between solar or natural gas. You can afford to choose between a gas powered car or a BEV.
What about the people who can’t. Progressive taxation won’t happen when you give all the funding and money to the oil lobby, so they get to bear the brunt of the work required to fixing climate change? “Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”?
This is not only a humanitarian point of view. A poorer population cannot afford to be greener. Most of the waste is generated by industrial inefficiencies caused by poorer countries who can’t afford to use cutting edge processes that reduce waste.
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clickbait article being reposted by Ars? curious who the editor who okayed this was.
edit: the premise and ideas deserve to be discussed. the tone of the original publication/author aren't great tho, seemingly intended to drive clicks and vitriol, not honest & fair discussion. an article from a great writer at Ars dissecting this could be good, but just posting it as is? feels clickbaity.
edit: the premise and ideas deserve to be discussed. the tone of the original publication/author aren't great tho, seemingly intended to drive clicks and vitriol, not honest & fair discussion. an article from a great writer at Ars dissecting this could be good, but just posting it as is? feels clickbaity.
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Nonsense; Rich countries produce by order of magnitudes, most of the environmental pollution on the Earth.
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It isn't a complete replacement, but you can get a good chunk of the benefits of widespread public transportation by way of WFH policies. Three years ago, I filled my car's tank about twice every three weeks, almost entirely to commute to and from work. Since, I've still got the same car, I've switched over to near-complete WFH, and I fill the tank maybe once every 8 weeks now. Not everyone can do that - but quite a lot of people can, and we should be actively encouraging this practice and boosting the infrastructure needed to make it possible. This is a lot cheaper than installing public transportation systems will be in many places.
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I had only just bought a mild hybrid car on a three year purchase plan, which means I'm not basically locked into spending money I don't have spare just to get to work.
But I'm glad I am an acceptable sacrifice for your fiscal policy.
But I'm glad I am an acceptable sacrifice for your fiscal policy.
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Feeling a little lightheaded when pulling up to the pumps?
Are you sweating while pumping your gas?
Feeling really sick when paying for it?
If so, you have a verified case of Carownervirus.
I'll show myself out.
Are you sweating while pumping your gas?
Feeling really sick when paying for it?
If so, you have a verified case of Carownervirus.
I'll show myself out.
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Rich countries also produce more at much higher efficiencies, thus generating less pollution and waste for each unit of product created.
That’s not a bad thing, you want developing countries to achieve that, not for rich countries to reduce their emissions by reducing productivity. Again, less productivity results in poorer populations, which results in more waste generated as a percentage of value consumed.
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In the first instance, I very much agree that anything which pushes us towards reducing our global dependencies on fossil fuels is a good thing.
But I think the proposed "solution" is a very naive one. In the first instance, there isn't a single global producer, nor is there a single market. And there very definitely isn't a single unified viewpoint on how to deal with either the economic or ecological costs associated with fossil fuels.
I mean, good luck getting Saudi Arabia or Shell Oil to agree to any of these proposals. And even more luck will be needed when it comes to agreeing how to disseminate this "ongoing windfall tax" across the entire planet...
Beyond that, it's worth noting that (at least IMO), we're currently at a very dangerous point. We've still got the economic shockwaves from Covid - and there's a good chance that we'll see a new mutation and resurgence of it in the near future. And in addition to the high fossil fuel prices triggered by Covid-recovery and Russia's invasion of Ukraine, we've then got the other secondary impacts from the latter - Ukraine is the world’s fifth-largest exporter of wheat, fourth-largest exporter of corn and top exporter of sunflower oil and meal[*], and much of what they produce goes to countries which are politically unstable, such as Egypt and Lebanon.
So there's a good chance that we'll get more than just food riots. We're probably going to get governments collapsing, civil wars, and even further invasions and international wars as various counties seek to seize and/or control increasingly limited resources.
And that will bring all the ecological damage that comes alongside war; we've already had a small taste of that with Russia's "destroy the village" policy in Ukraine, as well as their attempt to take over Chernobyl.
And if things do slide down that path, then the benefits of high fossil fuel prices will be of scant consolation to the millions (if not billions) of people caught up in all of this.
Nothing happens in a vacuum, and there's many things tied into fossil fuels and the price thereof.
[*] https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/ ... od-crisis/
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Oh yeah, I’ll rush out to buy a $30K electric vehicle with a 7 year, 4%+ interest auto loan and show gas companies who the real boss is.
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+1 | AwfulFeeling a little lightheaded when pulling up to the pumps?
Are you sweating while pumping your gas?
Feeling really sick when paying for it?
If so, you have a verified case of Carownervirus.
I'll show myself out.
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Please stop importing these low-quality political rants. If you have to pay Eric Berger more, just let us know.
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Thats great and all but the price of EVs is extremely high and the waiting list can be 12-24 months right now.
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I'm at least a couple years away from buying a new car. I might have been in the market by now, but see above - WFH has greatly reduced my need for a car, and the mileage I'm putting on my current one. And, right now probably isn't a great time for a new car purchase, for a lot of reasons.
But when the time arrives that I feel a new car is more of a need than a want, I will definitely be looking hard at EVs in preference to ICE vehicles. Especially given a couple more years of development, and the increases in competition we're already seeing.
I also agree, however, with those who've pointed out that the article's thesis works just fine - if you're already well off. Such policies are unworkable when it comes to those who aren't in such an advantageous financial situation.
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I can confirm that with the recent price peak almost all of us at work switched to some sort of public transportation or to good old "leg powered" commuting.
In my case I have to drive for 100km before getting to the office, so I take a bus that gets me there and go with a colleague for the last 3km. Before the price surge of fuel for my car I would not even consider it. Other employees come at work by train or bycicle.
Anecdotal indeed, but we all thought that high prices help in reducing the usage of private vehicles.
In my case I have to drive for 100km before getting to the office, so I take a bus that gets me there and go with a colleague for the last 3km. Before the price surge of fuel for my car I would not even consider it. Other employees come at work by train or bycicle.
Anecdotal indeed, but we all thought that high prices help in reducing the usage of private vehicles.
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Let me rephrase the title. It may sound crude but is exactly what this article means, if you think about it --
"Poor people are the reason for climate change. We might as well starve them to death."
"Poor people are the reason for climate change. We might as well starve them to death."
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Agreed. Expecting everyone to be able to swan around in 3-tonne electric Audis and Teslas is laughably short-sighted.
Maybe BP's huge profits could be tax... oh no, definitely not that. We're being shafted by oil-producers - stop trying to wrap that up in climate change rhetoric.
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We need short-term, local car-leasing. I drive 40 miles per week - I don't *need* a car, but I have to have one and pay a ridiculous sum for it while it depreciates away in the driveway. The ability to rent a car for two days a week - ideally an electric one - would be perfect for many WFH'ers.
It's pity these disruptive start-up clowns can't come up with something, instead of just delivering takeaway and providing pet food subscriptions.
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Sure that's fine. Screw over low income households under crushing expenses. High fuel prices affect everything: logistics costs, price at the pump, food, energy, water, everything.
No solid alternatives for transportation and energy since generations prior to us chose not to invest in diversified infrastructure and our generation for continually buying bigger vehicles and sheltering within our homes.
This article is dumb and thinks of only one facet of society. Must be nice being able to "work" from home writing articles while those who manufacture, and build or have to go to the office get to struggle. The hubris is insane.
No solid alternatives for transportation and energy since generations prior to us chose not to invest in diversified infrastructure and our generation for continually buying bigger vehicles and sheltering within our homes.
This article is dumb and thinks of only one facet of society. Must be nice being able to "work" from home writing articles while those who manufacture, and build or have to go to the office get to struggle. The hubris is insane.
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