Apple said there was one more product to announce to complete the transition, which should be the Mac Pro. The 27″ iMac is almost certainly dead, being split into a box and a display, which Apple can sell to their other Mac users.
Peek Performance: March 8th Event [Event discussion begins on p6!]
- Thread starter Mhorydyn
- Start date
Yeah I'm a little stuck here. I have a 27" iMac currently not because I like AIOs (I hate them, to be honest), but the value of the screen plus a nice computer thrown in is hard to beat. I think my current 2017 iMac was around $2300 when I bought it (as a well-specced refurb, of course).
The Studio display is... well, $1600 is a lot, but it's about what one would expect for a really good 5K monitor. OK, fine, I'll accept that. But the Studio desktop is total overkill, in all the wrong ways. What I need is 32GB of memory; 64GB is better, but I can work with 32GB. 1TB of internal storage is fine. The rest? Who cares, I'm humming along fine with an i5 right now, so it's all gravy, performance wise.
So yeah. Suddenly I'm looking at $3800 to duplicate what I already have, once I bump storage on a base-level Studio. I'd like to go from 32GB to 64GB, but that $400 upgrade puts me above $4000.
A Mini with an M1 Pro (solely to get the higher memory capacity) would really be my sweet spot, I think, but that's probably too narrow a niche for Apple to serve. They want me to go all-in for the Studio, and I just don't see that happening.
Time to re-think my reluctance about laptops. If I'm going to pay that much I may as well get portability as a bonus.
No doubt in my mind, they said there is one more Mac left and name dropped the Mac Pro. She's dead, Jim.
Edit: hey look, page 12.
Studio Monitor: £1499
Studio Monitor with height adjustment: £1899
Four hundred sheets for the height-adjustment option. Don't ever change, Apple.
Studio Monitor with height adjustment: £1899
Four hundred sheets for the height-adjustment option. Don't ever change, Apple.
Swap the A13 for an M2 in the display, bam, new iMac!
Kinda amusing the big iMac is basically where we'd expect the Mac Pro to be before the event. I wouldn't be certain it's dead, but definitely feels in limbo now, vs what felt like a pretty obvious assumption that it'd be sticking around. I think the big question now is if it comes back, if it's just a bigger screen with M2 or the Pro/Max.
And of course there's still the Intel Mac mini apparently, although with that one's (smaller) rumored redesign I'm not sure Pro/Max would be in the cards there either. Eventual Studio rejiggering w/cheaper Pro SKU down the line maybe?
Oh and the Studio confirms the quad M1 will be Mac Pro only. I guess another $2k for the extra chips and Mac Pro remains at $6k! Or more.
Kinda amusing the big iMac is basically where we'd expect the Mac Pro to be before the event. I wouldn't be certain it's dead, but definitely feels in limbo now, vs what felt like a pretty obvious assumption that it'd be sticking around. I think the big question now is if it comes back, if it's just a bigger screen with M2 or the Pro/Max.
And of course there's still the Intel Mac mini apparently, although with that one's (smaller) rumored redesign I'm not sure Pro/Max would be in the cards there either. Eventual Studio rejiggering w/cheaper Pro SKU down the line maybe?
Oh and the Studio confirms the quad M1 will be Mac Pro only. I guess another $2k for the extra chips and Mac Pro remains at $6k! Or more.
Most intensive things I do are Lightroom pano stitching, some DaVinci Studio processing.
For that even the M1 Pro would be fine.
Ready to upgrade from the i5 in my 2017 iMac, because it's bad at those tasks.
But I'd probably be looking at $4000-4500 for that?
At least give me 30 inch display and Pro Motion.
For that even the M1 Pro would be fine.
Ready to upgrade from the i5 in my 2017 iMac, because it's bad at those tasks.
But I'd probably be looking at $4000-4500 for that?
At least give me 30 inch display and Pro Motion.
To be fair, the form of height adjustment I've used in the past for my Cinema display, old university textbooks, probably cost just as much.
RandyWalker
Ars Centurion
$400 extra for height adjustment and you still don't get rotation-- you're getting upcharged for a stand that's still inferior to what comes with a $300 or $400 Dell.
I guess I'm not in the target market for Apple's monitors, because I've never seen the value-add over literally anything else on the market. They're pretty, and always good-quality panels, but they always skip features that are practically table stakes in the rest of the market (more input options than just TB, for example, or halfway-decent stands).
Apple's dropped the 27" iMac off their website. No product page, can't order one. It's gone. Makes total sense, but leaves a big gap in the low-mid range desktop lineup. A 16 GB M1 Mac mini is $1,100 while the base Mac Studio starts at $2k. The iMac tops out at an M1 also. There's an obvious M1 Pro-shaped hole there that fills out the price points perfectly.
It's strongly implied that the iMac 5K is going away. Maybe they are just waiting to see how sales of the Mac Studio will go before announcing it. I'm happy with that as long as they have more branded monitors come out.
Apple really is on the bleeding edge with display tech. a 27" to 30" miniLED from 5k to 7K res, and maybe 120 Hz isn't going to be cheap. With a Retina 27" at $1600, a 120 Hz miniLED would be at $2500, maybe $3000. A 27" miniLED would be like 4 MBP14 displays. People have been thinking that 14" miniLED costs something like $500 to $600. Than trying to make something that is the equivalent of 4 of them? Pricey.
Wish they'd just ship an M1 Pro Mac mini. That combined with a 35" 21:9 OLED would be pretty nice for me. I don't need all the performance or RAM either. Just lots of storage and a large display. A Mac mini with an OWC miniStack satisfies that for me. Just need a nice monitor.
Without a 27-inch iMac, there is a big gap in their desktop offerings between about $2200-2300 to about $3600.
Actually, more like $3900 since you have to pay $300 for the keyboard with Touch ID and the Magic Mouse.
Or $3950 if you opt for the Magic Trackpad.
So about a $1700-1800 price band between the highest SKU 24-inch iMac and the lowest end 24-inch iMac.
I guess someone who wants a desktop Apple Silicon setup in this big price band would get the 14-inch MBP with M1 Pro and buy some display?
Get this the Studio Display has a nano-texture option for $300 more. So it's a $1600 or $1900 display. At those prices, there's a lot of room for 3rd parties. They won't get the nice industrial design but probably 120 Hz for well under $1900 or even $1600?
Actually, more like $3900 since you have to pay $300 for the keyboard with Touch ID and the Magic Mouse.
Or $3950 if you opt for the Magic Trackpad.
So about a $1700-1800 price band between the highest SKU 24-inch iMac and the lowest end 24-inch iMac.
I guess someone who wants a desktop Apple Silicon setup in this big price band would get the 14-inch MBP with M1 Pro and buy some display?
Get this the Studio Display has a nano-texture option for $300 more. So it's a $1600 or $1900 display. At those prices, there's a lot of room for 3rd parties. They won't get the nice industrial design but probably 120 Hz for well under $1900 or even $1600?
Hopefully someone can write a realtime 3D vis program so when you have a Facetime meeting, we can see in your 3D glory. Just rotate you to your good side.
Noted. TIL. (Or, more accurately, was schooled.)
Bought the best config i could under £3000 with applecare..
The 64 gb memory will probably make the most impact
The 64 gb memory will probably make the most impact
Quite happy with Mac Studio.
Ordered the M1 Ultra model with 64 core GPU and 2 TB SSD ($5399) to replace a six year-old ~$11K rack-mount Linux workstation, used mostly for color grading in DaVinci Resolve. I was a little hesitant here, given that there's still a 'real' Mac Pro coming, but based on the performance I've seen from M1 Max I expect this to be more than sufficient for real-time 4K raw color grading, presently our most demanding use case. Maybe we'll buy an AS Mac Pro v2 in a couple of years and 'demote' this unit to rendering/transcoding (replacing the iMac Pro we presently use for much of that).
The $1999 model will be great to drop into edit suites, in place of the high-spec but aging 27" iMacs we currently use there. I was thinking we'd use a hypothetical M1 Max mini in that role, but was concerned clients wouldn't take it seriously enough; as silly as it is, the larger enclosure and 'Studio' branding 100% solve that problem.
Ordered the M1 Ultra model with 64 core GPU and 2 TB SSD ($5399) to replace a six year-old ~$11K rack-mount Linux workstation, used mostly for color grading in DaVinci Resolve. I was a little hesitant here, given that there's still a 'real' Mac Pro coming, but based on the performance I've seen from M1 Max I expect this to be more than sufficient for real-time 4K raw color grading, presently our most demanding use case. Maybe we'll buy an AS Mac Pro v2 in a couple of years and 'demote' this unit to rendering/transcoding (replacing the iMac Pro we presently use for much of that).
The $1999 model will be great to drop into edit suites, in place of the high-spec but aging 27" iMacs we currently use there. I was thinking we'd use a hypothetical M1 Max mini in that role, but was concerned clients wouldn't take it seriously enough; as silly as it is, the larger enclosure and 'Studio' branding 100% solve that problem.
The $400 dell doesn't come with a webcam, speakers, from the factory calibration, multiple color presets, etc. It's also not a 5k display.
order the Vesa mount adapter version and put it on an arm? Seems reasonable. Apple is guessing most people will order the default option and will be very happy with it.
One thing crosses my mind about the Mac Pro tease… given it’s not that long since they re-designed the Pro, will they redesign it again, or just say “Fuck it, we’ve got a box that will comfortably dissipate more heat than the new internals are ever likely to generate — let’s see just how fast we can get this thing”…?
So the xMac is still as dead as the 27” has become. Too bad finally selling the display separately can’t help anyone with a ‘studio’ display stuck to a paperweight iMac, but at least going forward they can upgrade their CPU, GPU, memory and/or storage by getting a whole new computer - but save a few hundred by not having to get a new display, too.
Maybe hope for the arm Mac Pro can be used to revive the dream of the xMac, if Apple can make something not exclusively pro that has any kind of upgrade path.
Maybe hope for the arm Mac Pro can be used to revive the dream of the xMac, if Apple can make something not exclusively pro that has any kind of upgrade path.
The biggest issue is that no one else makes 5K displays regardless of price other than the LG ones. Everyone has seemingly settled on lower resolution 4K and/or higher refresh...and that's about it.
(Course the hard part for me with Apple displays on the other hand is that I need multiple inputs, and Apple sure as hell ain't doing that either...so I stay stuck with my current old 1440p display, oh well)
There is no such thing as an "upgrade path" for any of these ARM machines, nor will there be. The whole idea is that the performance is inextricably linked to the implementation of the chips themselves. Adding user serviceable RAM monstrously handicaps the access speed enabled by the everything-on-one-chip design. The most I can see is slots for extra storage where the transport capacity for PCIe is within the order of magnitude for the medium.
orionquest
Ars Praefectus
Yeah looks like it.
I guess with the combinations of mac mini, mac studio, & studio display.
They replace mac mini pro, imac pro, and imac 27"
The mac mini + 27 studio display becomes the imac 27"
Seems strange they are not offering a 27" AIO as the iMac (mac) AIO form is what Apple was all about 27" being the modern equivalent of that history.
The first question to answer is whether PCI cards, RAM slots, add-on GPUs and the possibility of internal spinning rust are going to exist in Apple Silicon land.
If not the old case is pointless, and they can just bang out a Mac Mini with an even more preposterous forehead.
The Studio Display is almost what I wanted. I'd've liked dual-monitors with the one-cable-life built in (daisy chain, probably, which I think we all knew wasn't likely, and a suite of ports that look more like the old Thunderbolt display, which also seemed unlikely), and I'd've liked it less expensive (which I think we also all knew wasn't likely).
Two, with VESA mounts (no extra charge, that surprised me a little) and a Caldigit TS4 comes out to... $3600 plus tax, tag, and title. Ouch.
Two, with VESA mounts (no extra charge, that surprised me a little) and a Caldigit TS4 comes out to... $3600 plus tax, tag, and title. Ouch.
Vincent Hanna
Ars Tribunus Militum
Things I got right:
No laptops
No M2
No new Mac mini
Mac Studio has M1 Max as base config at $1999
Things I got wrong:
No 27" iMac
No Quad SoC option in Mac Studio
Mac Pro and 8K Pro Display XDR coming at WWDC after all
Things we learned from the event and Apple.com:
27" iMac killed immediately (John Ternus specifically said there is only one more AS machine to come, the Mac Pro by name)
The Quad SoC will have dedicated, non-M branding. Apple.com describes the M1 Ultra as "the final member of the M1 family". Mac Pro with the new X1 SoC.
There will now be a very sensible four Mac desktops, and only one is an all-in-one. Johny is the new Jony.
No laptops
No M2
No new Mac mini
Mac Studio has M1 Max as base config at $1999
Things I got wrong:
No 27" iMac
No Quad SoC option in Mac Studio
Mac Pro and 8K Pro Display XDR coming at WWDC after all
Things we learned from the event and Apple.com:
27" iMac killed immediately (John Ternus specifically said there is only one more AS machine to come, the Mac Pro by name)
The Quad SoC will have dedicated, non-M branding. Apple.com describes the M1 Ultra as "the final member of the M1 family". Mac Pro with the new X1 SoC.
There will now be a very sensible four Mac desktops, and only one is an all-in-one. Johny is the new Jony.
The size of the case really might not be that crazy if they want to go 4x M1 Max + 3 or 4 PCIe slots. But they'd have to redesign the whole interior anyway, given that it's presently built around accommodating dual MPX modules which become irrelevant with integrated GPU.
The RAM is not ‘on chip’ with the CPU, the bandwidth and latency per channel is not far off Intel and AMD cpus and especially the discrete GPUs where it actually affects performance, PCIe is fine for storage and upgradable NVME sticks would be good for longevity because flash fails regularly (a separate t2 that is actually on-chip to the CPU can still do Apple’s encryption, natch).
I'm starting to think the way forward for me is to replace both my MBP and my iMac Pro with a tricked-out 16" MBP. I don't see that the Mac Studio adds a lot of value for my use case compared with the MBP, and that way I also get AS when I'm not at my desk. The convenience of having separate portable and desktop machines is nice but not worth the backbreaking cost of upgrading both machines, especially given that the specs in my desired configurations are pretty much the same and all reports are that this MBP stays quiet under moderate load.
Upgrade paths are dead in the new world of total system integration. The only one that even makes sense at a theoretical level is for GPUs, but GPU cards are presently all but unobtainable if you're not an OEM. RAM is now on the package. I suppose Apple could have chosen to go with replaceable NVMe SSD modules for storage without a major performance penalty, but there's not much benefit for Apple in exchange for the increased probability of failure.
Upgrade paths are dead in the new world of total system integration. The only one that even makes sense at a theoretical level is for GPUs, but GPU cards are presently all but unobtainable if you're not an OEM. RAM is now on the package. I suppose Apple could have chosen to go with replaceable NVMe SSD modules for storage without a major performance penalty, but there's not much benefit for Apple in exchange for the increased probability of failure.
At the risk of inviting g trash can comparisons, is there any point in add-in PCIE GPUs with the M1 Ultra?
Mark Gurman says the iMac Pro is still coming.
Replacing the 27-inch iMac with an iMac Pro would fit in with the bifurcation of the Mac lineup into consumers and professionals.
Replacing the 27-inch iMac with an iMac Pro would fit in with the bifurcation of the Mac lineup into consumers and professionals.
I wonder if they’ll simply describe the Mac Pro as having 2 Ultras. Looking at the way the 2 Max dies are connected in the Ultra how would they physically do a 4 Max die MCM?
Whoa, the Mac Studio chassis is so similar to the Mini. That design continues (virtually) unchanged since 2011; will it make it to 2031?
Actually I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't bring back the cylinder now that they can actually fit enough performance into <450W.
Actually I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't bring back the cylinder now that they can actually fit enough performance into <450W.
Vincent Hanna
Ars Tribunus Militum
Ternus specifically said that there is only one more machine left to transition to AS: the Mac Pro by name. And the 27" Intel iMac has been unceremoniously erased from Apple.com. Seems to me that Gurman is simply wrong.
Not sure if it was mentioned, but nice job getting all women in the testimonials on International Women's Day.
Vincent Hanna
Ars Tribunus Militum
You mean like the old Dual G5s? Srouji went out of his way to deride such designs as having too much latency in today's event.