My confusing, 10-day journey to getting a UWP game to work on Windows 10
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I can only imagine the number of hours you have spent trying to figure this stuff out.
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Fortunately I haven't yet encountered a UWP exclusive that I've wanted to play, but this just further reinforces my instinctive distrust of UWP.
I'm not going to play a game that I can't mod, edit, or use a trainer with to skip the boring bits on subsequent playthroughs. I'm sure as hell not going to police my background processes to turn off useful utilities just to make Microsoft happy.
I've been enjoying the kindler, gentler MS of the last decade, but this honestly feels like the bad old days of the late 90s, when MS abused its market dominance to dodge competition and dictate customer behaviors.
UWP can DIAF. At this point, if there's a UWP game I want, it's pretty likely that I'll buy it and then download the de-UWP'd pirate version to actually install and play.
I'm not going to play a game that I can't mod, edit, or use a trainer with to skip the boring bits on subsequent playthroughs. I'm sure as hell not going to police my background processes to turn off useful utilities just to make Microsoft happy.
I've been enjoying the kindler, gentler MS of the last decade, but this honestly feels like the bad old days of the late 90s, when MS abused its market dominance to dodge competition and dictate customer behaviors.
UWP can DIAF. At this point, if there's a UWP game I want, it's pretty likely that I'll buy it and then download the de-UWP'd pirate version to actually install and play.
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I'm not sure how Microsoft has botched the concept of an app store so badly. I've never had issues like this with any of the competing app stores (including the macOS one, so it's not like the fact that it's a desktop operating system necessitates these kinds of issues).
I'm not saying the Mac App Store is a paragon of usability, but it does work. And you know what else it lets you do? Find apps in Finder and treat them just like any other files.
I think Microsoft over-engineered the hell out of this and needs to go back to the drawing board.
I'm not saying the Mac App Store is a paragon of usability, but it does work. And you know what else it lets you do? Find apps in Finder and treat them just like any other files.
I think Microsoft over-engineered the hell out of this and needs to go back to the drawing board.
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You actually can, technically, but the folders are always deliberately buried and their names are basically gobbledygook (I think they're hashes).
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My own exposure to UWP games has been blessedly limited; much of my gaming these days is on consoles (or -- gasp -- macOS).
It sounds like -- WTF-ery teething problems aside -- UWP is and was meant as a solution to the relative complexity of managing applications on Windows, and Play Anywhere games take advantage of this. For most people, in *principle*, this is a Really Good Idea. However, it also sounds like pursuing that end leaves piles of trouble for tinker-happy enthusiasts, and that's a problem for the traiditional PC gaming space. Half the fun of the PC as a gaming platform is having the ability to tinker with your hardware, your software, or even the game itself.
Normal users don't run MSI Afterburner. But gaming enthusiasts do, and that underlines the problem here: an evident mismatch in thinking between the people working on this software and the people who want to enjoy it.
It sounds like -- WTF-ery teething problems aside -- UWP is and was meant as a solution to the relative complexity of managing applications on Windows, and Play Anywhere games take advantage of this. For most people, in *principle*, this is a Really Good Idea. However, it also sounds like pursuing that end leaves piles of trouble for tinker-happy enthusiasts, and that's a problem for the traiditional PC gaming space. Half the fun of the PC as a gaming platform is having the ability to tinker with your hardware, your software, or even the game itself.
Normal users don't run MSI Afterburner. But gaming enthusiasts do, and that underlines the problem here: an evident mismatch in thinking between the people working on this software and the people who want to enjoy it.
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I was trying to install the desktop facebook and instagram apps on my Windows 10 machine earlier this week, and both of them had crashes within about 10 seconds of starting the app. The FB app didn't even require any user interaction before it disappeared.
I poked around in the windows event logger, and you're right that there's nothing useful in there. I could find no minidumps or other kind of logging that might help me figure out what's bust.
So yeah, that's the entirety of _my_ UWP experience. Apps that are probably just web browsers inside can't even get started.
I poked around in the windows event logger, and you're right that there's nothing useful in there. I could find no minidumps or other kind of logging that might help me figure out what's bust.
So yeah, that's the entirety of _my_ UWP experience. Apps that are probably just web browsers inside can't even get started.
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To be honest windows is probably just protecting you from crappy social media... Think of it as having done you a favour and you can now live your life properly ;-)
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Yeah, I wasn't that sad. It was my first time playing with the windows store and figured those were going to be among the simplest and best-supported apps on it, since they're made by a fairly big company.
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I haven't had much experience with UWP games, but the few I've tried have worked without issue. Just finished playing Gears 4 with a Game Pass trial.
I wonder if there are issues with any other overclocking software. EVGA Precision seems to work fine.
I wonder if there are issues with any other overclocking software. EVGA Precision seems to work fine.
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UWP is one of those good ideas with terrible implementation. Standardizing stuff among many environments would be awesome but once you realize it locks you into a broken ecosystem and kills the possibility of fiddling with the thing (ie: modding) it doesn't look so good. I personally avoid UWP.
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Hard pass. There's a lot that you give up for the convenience of digital software. Take away the convenience and there's just no point. Plenty of other things to play out there on storefronts that don't treat your PC like a console.
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I've got about half a dozen or so UWP apps that I use on a near daily basis and I like the fact their updates and installs are all automatically handled and sandboxed from each other but I've always been leery of something as complex as a game being handled by the MS Store and UWP API.
It seems I was right to distrust that. Not to mention it's locked down nature makes it harder if not outright prevents modding and other tweaks that a normal Windows game would allow you to do.
It seems I was right to distrust that. Not to mention it's locked down nature makes it harder if not outright prevents modding and other tweaks that a normal Windows game would allow you to do.
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I'm going out on a limb here but I'm guessing it has to do with overlays. It's probably why OBS affects it just as much as MSI Afterburner.
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Gern Blaanston
Ars Scholae Palatinae
This has been a constant problem with Windows 10 since the very beginning:
-- Clean install.
-- Programs A and B work just fine, but Program C won't install, or, installs but won't run properly.
-- Wipe and clean install again.
-- Program C now installs and runs just fine, but Program D won't install, or, installs but won't run properly.
-- Lather, Rinse, Repeat ..... until finally after 4 or 5 attempts everything is running (sort of) smoothly.
Another reason why I still run Windows 7 on my main computer.
It is beyond absurd that Microsoft still refuses to provide clear error messages that actually explain what is wrong.
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Years ago someone thought replacing error strings with error codes would improve customer support. Years later all error codes are meaningless random numbers nobody knows about.
The depth of human stupidity is unbounded
The depth of human stupidity is unbounded
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You actually can mod games with UWP, it's just harder. You can't tinker with the game's executable (so anything that requires outright replacing an executable is out), but you can intercept API calls and inject DLLs (which lets you do a lot of things, in some cases). You can argue that it should be easier, but I absolutely agree with Microsoft's approach of leaving easier mod hooks up to the developers - app signing and integrity's more important than being able to put mods in my games.
That said, I'm still not a fan of UWP for other reasons, not least of which being how poorly it fails. Having a simple easy-to-use app format stops being especially helpful when the failure mode for it is horribly cryptic and ridiculously difficult to correct.
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The only UWP app I use (other than applets built into to the OS) is the app to use my HP scanner. That works well enough, but my experience is that nothing good comes out of using UWP apps. One time the database for the Windows Store got corrupted on my computer and I couldn't use any UWP apps at all, including some of the applets built into the OS.
I wrote to support looking for instructions to reset the metadata database for the store and they told me I should delete my account and recreate it, and then spend at least a day (take a day off work?) reinstalling and configuring at least 30 real Win32 applications that I use for work just so I can use my scanner and be able to find setup applets by using Win + text as opposed to the "All Settings" button.
No thanks, fortunately I have another computer and thankfully the metadata database reset that I was asking for happened when I upgraded to one of the multiple "Creators Editions" that Microsoft keeps coming out with.
Dropbox, Google Cloud, Box and every other company can sync files without destroying your ability to save files in Office; Steam and Origin work just fine as app stores for games. Why can't Microsoft get things like this right when every other vendor can? They should (1) apologize and (2) have a full stop until they figure out why.
I wrote to support looking for instructions to reset the metadata database for the store and they told me I should delete my account and recreate it, and then spend at least a day (take a day off work?) reinstalling and configuring at least 30 real Win32 applications that I use for work just so I can use my scanner and be able to find setup applets by using Win + text as opposed to the "All Settings" button.
No thanks, fortunately I have another computer and thankfully the metadata database reset that I was asking for happened when I upgraded to one of the multiple "Creators Editions" that Microsoft keeps coming out with.
Dropbox, Google Cloud, Box and every other company can sync files without destroying your ability to save files in Office; Steam and Origin work just fine as app stores for games. Why can't Microsoft get things like this right when every other vendor can? They should (1) apologize and (2) have a full stop until they figure out why.
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I've had a lot of trouble with UWP apps: greyed out apps, apps that just wouldn't start, apps that would crash on startup, and the list goes on. No matter the amount of tinkering, the only thing that ever fixed it was reinstalling Windows (from the convenient Settings reset option, at least).
The fact that this happened to me on four different PCs by three different manufacturers, and that three of them were *factory clean* when the errors occured tells me that there's something very wrong with the stability of the platform. I like the concept, but I can't expect my grandma to reinstall Windows after getting a brand new machine - especially with errors that are so obscure.
The fact that this happened to me on four different PCs by three different manufacturers, and that three of them were *factory clean* when the errors occured tells me that there's something very wrong with the stability of the platform. I like the concept, but I can't expect my grandma to reinstall Windows after getting a brand new machine - especially with errors that are so obscure.
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This is my general experience with all things UWP. I now try to avoid UWP apps if possible. Hopefully the newly release "October Update" will remedy these issues but I doubt it.
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Had the same crash with Horizon 4. I am no IT wizz, but it took much to figure out.
First check the event viewer - wasn't helpful
Then killed all the nonessential apps in task manager processes tab - was helpful.
Restart and afterwards just get an idea which of the loaded software would be potential culprit.
Resetting Windows or downloading it all again would be tha last resort.
First check the event viewer - wasn't helpful
Then killed all the nonessential apps in task manager processes tab - was helpful.
Restart and afterwards just get an idea which of the loaded software would be potential culprit.
Resetting Windows or downloading it all again would be tha last resort.
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From what I've read and seen, the implementation is anything but sound. Apple's 'bundles' took a bit of getting used to, but they're essentially just subdirectories with metadata - it doesn't take any special magic to look inside, and applications from the Store aren't any different from applications from anywhere else in terms of logging or licensing. If UWP were similar - just a convenient way to keep applications self-contained, it would actually be useful, but instead it's like having an OS within the OS, with it's own conventions that are poorly documented and opaque to the owner of the system.
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I wonder how much of these problems can be attributed to yet another poorly executed DRM scheme where it's more important for MS to unsure that unauthorized users can't use the game than to allow authorized user to actually use the product they bought.
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Canterrain
Ars Scholae Palatinae
This right here is awesome. Plenty of people would JUST pirate the game. Props that you are still purchasing and making sure developers are paid.
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UWP seems a lot like the touch-first UI that was put on top of Windows 8. Microsoft panicked at the rise of mobile and iPads and did everything in their power to tie as much of their ecosystem together as they could.
Of course, dropping the ball so spectacularly on Windows Phone was essentially the kiss of death for the touch-first UI. Sure, it's still there and I'm sure a single-digit percentage of Windows 10 users use it but the entire system could disappear and the Windows ecosystem would be no worse off.
It seems UWP is not much better off. Without the "billion" devices running Windows 10 (no mobile) the economic motivation for Microsoft to actually fix these bugs isn't there. There's a lot of complexity in the variety of PC hardware - much more so than XBox's - so it will take a non-trivial amount of engineering to work around these problem. The folks on the OS side have had their teething pains getting Windows 10 updates rolling and they have an enormous engineering team behind them. Getting UWP programs to "just work" will likely require a similar investment from Microsoft with no real revenue driver to do so.
Of course, dropping the ball so spectacularly on Windows Phone was essentially the kiss of death for the touch-first UI. Sure, it's still there and I'm sure a single-digit percentage of Windows 10 users use it but the entire system could disappear and the Windows ecosystem would be no worse off.
It seems UWP is not much better off. Without the "billion" devices running Windows 10 (no mobile) the economic motivation for Microsoft to actually fix these bugs isn't there. There's a lot of complexity in the variety of PC hardware - much more so than XBox's - so it will take a non-trivial amount of engineering to work around these problem. The folks on the OS side have had their teething pains getting Windows 10 updates rolling and they have an enormous engineering team behind them. Getting UWP programs to "just work" will likely require a similar investment from Microsoft with no real revenue driver to do so.
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train_wreck
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Ouch, just.... ouch. And to think that Microsoft is (or was) touting UWP as a more stable and reliable way to write/distribute Windows software. It’s a bit telling that their UWP PR pushes have slowly dwindled.
Glad I’ve stayed away from this junk.
Glad I’ve stayed away from this junk.
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Honestly, it seems they have the ability to take the simple, and make it both complex and inoperable.
All in the name of DRM (of one kind or another).
An operating system should be simple and inconspicuous. It should "just work". Microsoft has tried so many "new standards" that it's hard to know which one is currently in play. Remember Zune and "Plays for Sure"...except it didn't. They seem to enjoy complexity and intricacy, but can't quite manage to make it work, before the whole construction falls apart into a pile of smoking rubble.
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0x80070003 - ERROR_PATH_NOT_FOUND
That one might actually be fairly solvable: Grab procmon from Microsoft Sysinternals, and watch for CreateFile calls from your process that fail to find their targeted file. If it's genuinely not finding the path to some resource, you should be able to narrow it down pretty quickly.
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train_wreck
Ars Scholae Palatinae
btw, the constant suggestions by the official Microsoft reps to “just redownload the (multi-gigabyte) software and try it again”, causing untold amounts of worthless data usage, are both idiotic and insulting.
Sure, no problem, it’s not like i have capped internet or anything
Sure, no problem, it’s not like i have capped internet or anything
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... (emphasis mine) and Microsoft engineers who seem to be just as clueless...
Makes you wonder what all that telemetry is worth for actual troubleshooting.
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SuinusLatinus
Ars Tribunus Militum
It's like Games for Windows Live all over again. I never managed to have that abomination work without some kind of error and it seems UWP is the same.
After being burned by GfWL and reading this and others accounts of UWP woes, I won't ever buy UWP software.
After being burned by GfWL and reading this and others accounts of UWP woes, I won't ever buy UWP software.
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While I'm no fan of UWP. There are games I've bought via both Steam and GOG that also crash if MSI's Afterburner is currently running in the background. Meanwhile, Forza Horizon 4 (both the demo and early release for the Digital Deluxe version) ran just fine with Afterburner running. This is and always will be a thing with games on a platform as diverse as Windows, given all of the different configurations available. I've never had a single issue with FH4 thus far.
Another thing to note. Closing Afterburner doesn't kill your overclock. It just stops you from using things like the GPU and CPU monitors it also provides.
Another thing to note. Closing Afterburner doesn't kill your overclock. It just stops you from using things like the GPU and CPU monitors it also provides.
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Anyone remember MS's comment "Plays For Sure?"
Yeah...and they say gaming under Linux is a problem.
Snerk...
Yeah...and they say gaming under Linux is a problem.
Snerk...
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i own gears4, horizon3, killer instinct, some of those halo games, and i got the forza whatever demo and all have been fine. i also have afterburner.
i guess i'm lucky; but i have had issues with crashes in assasin's creed egypt so that's something. not uwp (steam) so i dunno.
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I've had zero problems with FH4 so far (touch wood). FH3 wasn't bad either, except at the time I didn't realize that xbox and windows store have different accounts, and I got crossed up.
UWP iTunes on the other hand, takes a good 5 minutes to even launch on my SSD. Once it finally does, I'm treated to the little blue circle for another ten. Scrapped it and went back to x64 version. It launches in seconds.
UWP iTunes on the other hand, takes a good 5 minutes to even launch on my SSD. Once it finally does, I'm treated to the little blue circle for another ten. Scrapped it and went back to x64 version. It launches in seconds.
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My take on this story:
It sounds like Microsoft owes Sam a medium sized check for the bandwidth and download cap they forced upon him with their broke ass bullshit. I'm estimating something like 1.5x the monthly internet bill with a x3 multiplier for induced stress.
It sounds like Microsoft owes Sam a medium sized check for the bandwidth and download cap they forced upon him with their broke ass bullshit. I'm estimating something like 1.5x the monthly internet bill with a x3 multiplier for induced stress.
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