US sanctions North Korea over Sony hack and classifies attack evidence

The U.S. had sanctions on Cuba because of its operations in countries like Bolivia, and not against other repressive Communist nations, so sanctions against North Korea because of its terrorist acts and other aggressions are consistent.

I do not think it was llikely for the attack to have been mounted from North Korean soil. But there are people sympathetic to North Korea in Japan who could do this, and who do other things for North Korea, like buying computers for them.

 

[JournalBot]

Security researchers doubting Pyongyang's guilt not privy to FBI data, feds say.

Read the whole story

 

[sonicmerlin]

Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

 

[Drakkenmensch]

North Korea hurled racial slurs that Obama was a "monkey in a tropical forest," acting recklessly.

I can see why calling someone a monkey would work as an insult, but what does qualifying that statement with "in a tropical forest" add to the insult? How does being a monkey in a tropical forest specifically work at being worse than say, in a subtropical environment, in a zoo or in a Disney movie?

 

[nijave]

So either there was evidence obtained through questionable sources (the NSA) or the United States is using this as an excuse to raise tension between them and North Korea (for any number of political reasons)?

 

[feistypenguin]

You know, I think the FedGov would get a lot more support if they actually provided some of this "top secret" evidence that north Korea was involved... Or at least include some security researchers in on their findings. There are ways they could do this without compromising national security.

The excuse of "trust us, it's classified" doesn't cut it post-snowden.

 

[regimon]

'fraid none of this passes the sniff test.

 

[Anonymous Cowerd]

Just like how the FBI was justified in their surveillance of Martin Luther King Jr, and John Lennon. They were completely justified, because the rest of us just weren't privy to their data. Because everyone knows it would be wrong to use the powers of law enforcement to push a political agenda... Well everyone but the FBI, but it's probably expecting too much for them to know and obey the laws...

These assholes just don't seem to realize that they have no credibility.

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me,
Expect to fool me thrice, you must be the FBI.

 

[robert.walter]

Another case of the Executive Branch doubling-down as cover for its own ignorance and incompetence?

 

[iPirateEverything]

I call bullshit if they are not willing to share their "proof". A lot of security researchers have raised some very valid points as to why it's not NK, at least some proof should be provided to answer those researcher's points...

ARGH! To think that I am siding with one of the most evil, repugnant, fucked up country ruled by a short little tyrant with a tiny wee-wee complex because the US goes "because we say so" is irritating to say the least.

 

[Drakkenmensch]

iPirateEverything[/url]":3rmcwurp]I call bullshit if they are not willing to share their "proof". A lot of security researchers have raised some very valid points as to why it's not NK, at least some proof should be provided to answer those researchers...

ARGH! To think that I am siding with one of the most evil, repugnant, fucked up country ruled by a short little tyrant with a tiny wee-wee complex because the US goes "because we say so" is irritating to say the least.

It does sound eerily familiar to the search for those iraqi weapons of mass destruction that were never found...

 

[Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer]

I'd ask "Who is going to believe the FBI about this?", but I know plenty of reasonably intelligent people who won't have any trouble believing them. Why believe the dissenters, no matter what their qualifications may be, when the government has taken its position? It's not like the feds could possibly have anything to gain by lying...

 

[arkiel]

Security researchers doubting Pyongyang's guilt not privy to FBI data, feds say.

Which means they are lying. Withholding evidence is the only thing that can mean. They're getting ready to do something to North Korea, and they want people against it to look like lunatics with no evidence to back up their claims.

Mind, I don't care if this is a runup to a conflict, because it's been a long time coming. Seems like something China could be enticed to get in on, too.

But if the government says NK did it, and withholds evidence, they are definitely, definitly lying.

 

[Amadeus71]

The more researchers question that it was North Korea behind all this, the more secretive the administration gets.

I think Bruce Schneier summed it up very nicely on his blog

I also wrote that bluffing about this is a smart strategy for the US government:

...from a diplomatic perspective, it's a smart strategy for the US to be overconfident in assigning blame for the cyberattacks. Beyond the politics of this particular attack, the long-term US interest is to discourage other nations from engaging in similar behavior. If the North Korean government continues denying its involvement, no matter what the truth is, and the real attackers have gone underground, then the US decision to claim omnipotent powers of attribution serves as a warning to others that they will get caught if they try something like this.

Of course, this strategy completely backfires if the attackers can be definitely shown to be not from North Korea. Stay tuned for more.

Discrediting researchers as not having access to the evidence addresses the one problem that strategy has.

 

[Anonymous Cowerd]

robert.walter[/url]":1ai6owv9]Another case of the Executive Branch doubling-down as cover for its own ignorance and incompetence?

I think it's worse that than, I think it's more about them attempting to manipulate public opinion to support actions they want to take, but can't justify. It's propaganda.

 

[ardent]

sonicmerlin[/url]":hs8mzkcd]Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

Just to bring some clarity into your life: we're still at war with North Korea.

Have been since 1950.

Thought you should know.

 

[charleski]

Drakkenmensch[/url]":wodxd3da]

North Korea hurled racial slurs that Obama was a "monkey in a tropical forest," acting recklessly.

I can see why calling someone a monkey would work as an insult, but what does qualifying that statement with "in a tropical forest" add to the insult? How does being a monkey in a tropical forest specifically work at being worse than say, in a subtropical environment, in a zoo or in a Disney movie?

Perhaps a more important question is whether he was referring to New World or Old World monkeys: exactly which tropical forest was he talking about?

The NK statement leaves us with a lot of questions, whereas the FBI one leaves us with the certainty that they're talking out their a**.

 

[iPirateEverything]

ardent[/url]":3rmrlj4c]

sonicmerlin[/url]":3rmrlj4c]Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

Just to bring some clarity into your life: we're still at war with North Korea.

Have been since 1950.

Thought you should know.

Oops, OT, please ignore.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

ardent[/url]":twxfpnc4]

sonicmerlin[/url]":twxfpnc4]Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

Just to bring some clarity into your life: we're still at war with North Korea.

Have been since 1950.

Thought you should know.

Does that mean we can start hostilities without notifying congress first?

 

[Anonymous Cowerd]

ardent[/url]":3iua035x]

sonicmerlin[/url]":3iua035x]Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

Just to bring some clarity into your life: we're still at war with North Korea.

Have been since 1950.

Thought you should know.

Truman never went to congress for a formal declaration of war against North Korea. It is best described as a police action. We do currently have an armistice, which is an agreement to cease hostilities with them, but we can't be at war, unless Obama declared war over the weekend when I wasn't paying attention. (Unless you are a citizen of Korea, then yes, it was a civil war, that never ended)

Thought you should know.

http://www.archives.gov/education/lesso ... -conflict/

 

[vassago]

Funny how the lack of evidence matters now. Seems like just a week ago I was downvoted to oblivion here for skepticism of it being DPRK...

 

[Rubberman]

So, the FBI's boffins screwed up in their analysis of the hack and are now burying the evedence under cover of "classification". How nice it must be to be able to cover your ineptitude in such a simple manner!

 

[Voldenuit]

sonicmerlin[/url]":16646hfr]Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

These days, the USA is another three letter agency.

Why didn't we sanction China when they hacked multiple US companies? Oh, I forgot, because we want their money.

What happens now? Does this set legal precedent for other countries to sanction us for NSA hacking? This seems to be dangerous ground here.

 

[UltimateLemon]

charleski[/url]":1vca1ikk]

Drakkenmensch[/url]":1vca1ikk]

North Korea hurled racial slurs that Obama was a "monkey in a tropical forest," acting recklessly.

I can see why calling someone a monkey would work as an insult, but what does qualifying that statement with "in a tropical forest" add to the insult? How does being a monkey in a tropical forest specifically work at being worse than say, in a subtropical environment, in a zoo or in a Disney movie?

Perhaps a more important question is whether he was referring to New World or Old World monkeys: exactly which tropical forest was he talking about?

The NK statement leaves us with a lot of questions, whereas the FBI one leaves us with the certainty that they're talking out their a**.

They are probably doing a literal translation from N.Korean to English. N.Korean is sort of like S.Korean except the language is sort of stuck back in 50's with no exposure to any other cultures. So the chances are the original script said something about Obama being a monkey in a forest but literal translation came as "tropical forest".

 

[potato44830]

Voldenuit[/url]":1y6gdo4r]

sonicmerlin[/url]":1y6gdo4r]Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

These days, the USA is another three letter agency.

Why didn't we sanction China when they hacked multiple US companies? Oh, I forgot, because we want their money.

What happens now? Does this set legal precedent for other countries to sanction us for NSA hacking? This seems to be dangerous ground here.

Right. We Sanctioned China for 'hijacking' US companies. But if the entire Fortune 500 decides to outsource all production to China to avoid US environmental and labor laws, thats perfectly OK. Im sure that having the Red Army owning shares in every factory that produces laptops and cellphones is not a security risk, but a handful of guys exploiting php bugs is the end of the world.

 

[Anonymous Cowerd]

Sobad[/url]":2wgh2ez5]The NSA knows this was not North Korea, just like how the CIA knew that it was Al-Qaeda that was heavily invested in the rebels in Libya... The President doesn't care about facts, he is happy to twist things to his own agenda and the analysts and 3 letter organizations are told to shut up and color.

Everyone on Ars likes to bitch about the NSA and the CIA doing illegal shit.. Do you really think the politicians aren't telling them to do this stuff??

I don't think most here feel that these are rogue agencies acting on their own. The Whitehouse and congress can push for investigations, but they aren't. Members of congress, can read any document they want into the public record on the floor of congress (remember the pentagon papers), and be immune from prosecution. They won't, even though you have 2 members Udal and Wyden who kept on saying that what has been happening would shock most Americans. What the problem seems to be is that the people running these agencies have no problem obeying orders that would be deemed illegal if they were ever brought to the light of day. The CIA had no problems torturing people under Bush then Obama, and Cheney has already come out and said that Bush knew everything that was going on back in april of 2006 (or was it 2007), it was a good 4 months before bush went on TV and said "We Do Not Torture".

The only person so far to go to prison over the CIA torture of human beings, is the one person who happened to tell us that the CIA was torturing human beings. That's become the crime, and I am confident that 99% of the people here realize that.

 

[doho7744]

Whether N Korea did this or not I could give two figs. We have no business involving the US government in this situation. Why are we messing around in something that involves a Japanese corporation. Seriously WTF.

 

[iPirateEverything]

doho7744[/url]":2jpni6p0]Whether N Korea did this or not I could give two figs. We have no business involving the US government in this situation. Why are we messing around in something that involves a Japanese corporation. Seriously WTF.

Because rich people have friends in big places...

 

[TheEphemeralElectron]

Drakkenmensch[/url]":2mstwshv]

North Korea hurled racial slurs that Obama was a "monkey in a tropical forest," acting recklessly.

I can see why calling someone a monkey would work as an insult, but what does qualifying that statement with "in a tropical forest" add to the insult? How does being a monkey in a tropical forest specifically work at being worse than say, in a subtropical environment, in a zoo or in a Disney movie?

Perhaps something to the effect of "right at home with all the rest of the wild animals"?

 

[sviola]

doho7744[/url]":7rn7ee8x]Whether N Korea did this or not I could give two figs. We have no business involving the US government in this situation. Why are we messing around in something that involves a Japanese corporation. Seriously WTF.

Sony Pictures is an American company, owned by a Japanese conglomerate.

 

[TheEphemeralElectron]

Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer[/url]":31w8a96i]I'd ask "Who is going to believe the FBI about this?", but I know plenty of reasonably intelligent people who won't have any trouble believing them. Why believe the dissenters, no matter what their qualifications may be, when the government has taken its position? It's not like the feds could possibly have anything to gain by lying...

Great, now I have to buy a brand new sarcasm detector... this one is now completely shot!

 

[TheEphemeralElectron]

Voldenuit[/url]":f2yemos8]

sonicmerlin[/url]":f2yemos8]Because 3 letter organizations like the NSA and FBI are oh so trustworthy. If this ends up being another Iraq, then I seriously just give up on this country.

These days, the USA is another three letter agency.

Why didn't we sanction China when they hacked multiple US companies? Oh, I forgot, because we want their money.

What happens now? Does this set legal precedent for other countries to sanction us for NSA hacking? This seems to be dangerous ground here.

Yeah, it does very much feel like "picking on the kid no one likes" because no one will raise a fuss, so we can cite it as precedence later. Or a "we are doing something" security theater, after a fashion.

 

[qasimq]

"The US is lobbing fresh sanctions against North Korea as a response to the cyber attack on Sony Pictures Entertainment even as President Barack Obama's administration refuses to provide evidence of Pyongyang's involvement."

Sounds more like the administration trying to coverup a case of talking before all the evidence was presented.

 

[Drakkenmensch]

TheEphemeralElectron[/url]":1yvuxrr4]

Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer[/url]":1yvuxrr4]I'd ask "Who is going to believe the FBI about this?", but I know plenty of reasonably intelligent people who won't have any trouble believing them. Why believe the dissenters, no matter what their qualifications may be, when the government has taken its position? It's not like the feds could possibly have anything to gain by lying...

Great, now I have to buy a brand new sarcasm detector... this one is now completely shot!

Never aim your sarcasm detector at the Ars comment threads! It's like looking directly into the sun with binoculars.

 

[doho7744]

sviola[/url]":18ezsy8u]

doho7744[/url]":18ezsy8u]Whether N Korea did this or not I could give two figs. We have no business involving the US government in this situation. Why are we messing around in something that involves a Japanese corporation. Seriously WTF.

Sony Pictures is an American company, owned by a Japanese conglomerate.

The portion that was hacked was Japanese, the fact they got the american emails has little to do with that.
This is governmental imperialism and nothing less. The overreach that is being done here is exactly what trey and matt were mocking in Team America.

 

[beebee]

The inside job angle, if true, represents incredible stupidity. SPE fires some IT staff. They need jobs. So an insider makes the IT staff look untrustworthy. Who would hire any SPE IT if you can't trust them.

Blaming insiders is like the cops always blaming the husband/boyfriend when a woman turns up dead.

 

[BioTurboNick]

It is a bit ironic when people say they value evidence in one breath and then in the next breath conclude that the fact that the FBI has classified its evidence means that the evidence is flimsy and/or a cover-up and/or manufactured.

 

[Anonymous Cowerd]

Drakkenmensch[/url]":jah9iwr5]

iPirateEverything[/url]":jah9iwr5]I call bullshit if they are not willing to share their "proof". A lot of security researchers have raised some very valid points as to why it's not NK, at least some proof should be provided to answer those researchers...

ARGH! To think that I am siding with one of the most evil, repugnant, fucked up country ruled by a short little tyrant with a tiny wee-wee complex because the US goes "because we say so" is irritating to say the least.

It does sound eerily familiar to the search for those iraqi weapons of mass destruction that were never found...

And if you recall, the vice president's office outed a CIA operative (Valerie Plame) in order to discredit her husband, Joseph Wilson who dared to step forward and point out that the aluminum tubes that the white house was using as "evidence" weren't capable of being used in a centrifuge for creating the fissionable materials required for a nuclear device.

If an entity is willing to do that, and they are willing to OK the torture human beings, then do you really think they have any boundaries?

 

[Feniks]

Now all we need is a decent PowerPoint presentation and Colin Powell to reprise his role. Blockbuster guaranteed.