The roof is, however, on fire, and we're letting the motherfucker burn…It was always burning, since the world's been turning…
Thanks for that earworm.
This is my problem with archaeology. I'm pretty good with theory and interpretation. I resolutely do not have the attention to detail to notice that that tiny fragment of rock is unlike all the other tiny fragments of rock I might come across.Props for recognising that brown fragment as pyrite; if I had happened across it I'd have dismissed it as just another anonymous pebble, proving once again that I'd have been a lousy archaeologist...
There must be a good evidence for it, but the idea of early hominids using fire but not being able to make it—collecting it from wildfire or whatnot—just seems so strange to me. It just seems like something you’ll either need, or you won’t.
If the fire goes out… I mean, how often do you get a wildfire that you can harvest from? Might not your tribe go multiple years without seeing that? So, you’ll need to adapt to not having fire in the long run. But, if you do find a spark, you might have to devote someone from your tribe to tending it all day, right? So you must see it as very important. That mix just seems weird to me…
This is definitely ignorance on my part, though, because archaeologists talk about it all the time.
So it's not merely fool's gold but fool's steel? Fool me twice, shame on me.Kiona N. Smith said:Long before people struck flint and steel together to make fire, they struck flint and pyrite.
Astute readers will recall it also took cutting-edge technology in 2016. The Internet never forgets.Kiona N. Smith said:Lighting a fire sounds like a simple thing, but once upon a time, it took cutting-edge technology.
Very true. This is why after committing a crime, I...I mean, er, oops, typographical error!Rob Davis said:Something else that fire provides is additional time.
We have evidence of people using but not casting fire? That's mad.Kiona N. Smith said:Evidence of that sort of thing—using fire, but not necessarily being able to summon it on command—dates back more than a million years at sites like Koobi Fora in Kenya and Swartkrans in South Africa.
We can tell when fires were made hundreds of thousands of years in the past?! That's just incredible.Kiona N. Smith said:But the area that’s now Suffolk wasn’t in the middle of wildfire season when the Barnham hearth was in use.
It's interesting that those Neanderthals also had drawing pin technology.Kiona N. Smith said:The two pyrite fragments at the side may have broken off a larger nodule when it was struck against a piece of flint.
Someday, she thought, she would be the one to light the fire, to harness the power of the firestones and the spirits within.
The roof is, however, on fire, and we're letting the motherfucker burn
Given that we are also party Neanderthal, let's just agree the statute of limitations had passed.We didn’t start the fire. (Neanderthals did, at least 400,000 years ago.)
This sentence reminded me of the famous bone to satellite segue from 2001: A Space Odyssey.Working out how to start a fire on purpose—and then how to control its size and temperature—was the breakthrough that made nearly everything else possible: hafted stone weapons, cooked food, metalworking, and ultimately microprocessors and heavy-lift rockets.
But still... who knew Billy Joel was so ahead of his time. It wasn't just his ex-wife who was ahead of her time.…It was always burning, since the world's been turning…
Thanks for that earworm.
We didn’t start the fire. (Neanderthals did, at least 400,000 years ago.)
Given that we are also party Neanderthal, let's just agree the statute of limitations had passed.
IANAArcheologist, but my understanding is that wildfires are relatively common in the African savannah, but less common in Europe. Part of the evidence for hominids being able to use fire but not start fire is that we see long-term habitation sites in Africa that have signs of intermittent fire use, but in Europe there are lots of sites with little or no fire use. This might indicate that Africans were able to scavenge fire more frequently, but their European offshoots were less lucky. If fire-making technology were available, you would expect all sites to have evidence of fire use, or at least that colder European sites might have more fires rather than less.If the fire goes out… I mean, how often do you get a wildfire that you can harvest from? Might not your tribe go multiple years without seeing that? So, you’ll need to adapt to not having fire in the long run. But, if you do find a spark, you might have to devote someone from your tribe to tending it all day, right? So you must see it as very important. That mix just seems weird to me…
This is definitely ignorance on my part, though, because archaeologists talk about it all the time.
Unlike the fragment shown in the article, pyrite can be pretty, hence the name "fool's gold". I can imagine a Neanderthal having a pretty chunk of pyrite, and thinking, hey, maybe I can sculpt this into a nice piece of jewelry with my flint tool.I can't help but wonder if those early firestarters discovered the sparks from pyrite and flint through bored fidgeting with rocks, or if they were trying to do something else when they saw the same sparks that could spread fire over small barriers and gaps.
Probably the latter considering how often flint shows up in paleolithic technology.
My WAG would be the latter as well, since flint knapping existed for quite a while before that. Knapping a flint with some sedimentary rock or quartz accidentally containing pyrite crystals and getting a spark burning your thigh or starting off some dry leaves on the ground sounds a quite a bit more likely than just bored fidgeting with rocks.I can't help but wonder if those early firestarters discovered the sparks from pyrite and flint through bored fidgeting with rocks, or if they were trying to do something else when they saw the same sparks that could spread fire over small barriers and gaps.
Probably the latter considering how often flint shows up in paleolithic technology.
Depends heavily on the environment. In dry environments where nice size sticks tend to be available (such as in the ponderosa forests of the U.S. Southwest), almost any day of the year you could find suitably dry/sized sticks and start a fire within about twenty minutes. In the rainy season in a rain forest, on the other hand…First, very cool article!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firekeeper
Fire watchers were a very important task in older societies. So much that it took a religious stance on at some points. But at this time, very much so routine life task.
Lighting a fire sounds like a simple thing
The small patch of baked clay at Barnham hasn’t seen a fire in half a million years
It need not be a binary choice of need or not need. For a long time it was probably just "danger, stay away". But even then there was possible to come back later, when the danger was past, to see what remnants could be exploited. (E.g., some cooked meat.) These would presumably have been considered fortuitous luxuries. (After getting over the eww factor.)There must be a good evidence for it, but the idea of early hominids using fire but not being able to make it—collecting it from wildfire or whatnot—just seems so strange to me. It just seems like something you’ll either need, or you won’t.
If the fire goes out… I mean, how often do you get a wildfire that you can harvest from? Might not your tribe go multiple years without seeing that? So, you’ll need to adapt to not having fire in the long run. But, if you do find a spark, you might have to devote someone from your tribe to tending it all day, right? So you must see it as very important. That mix just seems weird to me…
This is definitely ignorance on my part, though, because archaeologists talk about it all the time.
At Koobi Fora we find evidence of fire associated with H. erectus artifacts, including bone fragments and knapping fragments. We see both evidence of the effect of fire on the surface soil (what would have been surface soil at the time, that is) as well as evidence of fire damage to artifacts. The evidence could be consistent H. erectus artifacts getting burned in a wildfire (or multiple wildfires), though.We have evidence of people using but not casting fire? That's mad.
Never saw the movie, but did read the book it was based on. Wasn't really my thing at the time - was a hand-me-down book from my mother - but she loved it... From what I recall, it was decently interesting, though the pacing did seem to drag a bit.Am I the only one that saw the 1980's film that investigates breze's query, Quest for Fire? It follows a group of paleolithics trying to restore 'the magic' following a very very bad day for their fire watcher. They traipse through the wilderness seeking a tribe that has a flame. Not a horrid movie.
As I recall, the dialog left something to be desiredAm I the only one that saw the 1980's film that investigates breze's query, Quest for Fire? It follows a group of paleolithics trying to restore 'the magic' following a very very bad day for their fire watcher. They traipse through the wilderness seeking a tribe that has a flame. Not a horrid movie.
Heh. A comedy: the paleolithic Three Stooges! Rae Dawn Chong introduces Everett McGill to the missionary position.Am I the only one that saw the 1980's film that investigates breze's query, Quest for Fire? It follows a group of paleolithics trying to restore 'the magic' following a very very bad day for their fire watcher. They traipse through the wilderness seeking a tribe that has a flame. Not a horrid movie.
As an example of how similar we might actually be to Neanderthals, I’d be willing to bet that a Neanderthal would seem much more human than the CGI characters in that movie do.View attachment 123949
I understood that reference.