The all-electric car—is Mitsubishi's "green" city car worth the cash?

In which we drive a tiny i-MiEV and look down on Prius hybrid owners.

Read the whole story

 

[Dreil]

You don't even bother to mention the Leaf except in your table and conclude you want to go home in a Volt. Have you ever used one before? They're pretty swell.

 

[Akemi]

Why are all the major manufacturers making such ugly electrics? This think looks hideous

Meanwhile Tesla makes very attractive looking vehicles that also perform like one would want.

Take the new Tesla S luxury sedan. 300 miles per charge, stellar performance, and looks great.

It's astounding that this upstart has just been kicking the crap out of companies that spend more on their design and R&D departments than Tesla makes as a whole company.

 

[continuum]

Yeah, for that price--- and the price difference!-- it would be hard not to buy a Fiesta or a Fit, or even a Mazda3 Skyactiv...


As nice as the Teslas are, I don't think their reliability is proven yet, if that matters to you. They do appear to be going through quite a bit of new model teething issues, which is being exacerbated by the fact that their entire company is brand new...

 

[smellykaka]

You don't even bother to mention the Leaf except in your table and conclude you want to go home in a Volt. Have you ever used one before? They're pretty swell.

IIRC, the Leaf is electric only so subject to restrictions around where you can charge up, whereas the Volt has a gasoline engine where you can basically start charging any time you can find a gas station.

 

[Mishoni]

I love the idea of electric cars, but the idea of having enough money to actually buy a car near-new seems foreign these days. I also do 110kms (~66miles) of commute at highway speeds back and forth, so in my situation electric might not even have the range. Satellite towns...

 

[atinsley]

I work at a dealership group and have driven both the Mitsubishi i and Nissan LEAF extensively. The i does not even hold a candle to the LEAF. Why are you reviewing this car?

The LEAF is a real vehicle that runs on electricity. The i is a no-frills option that most people would not drive. It is only designed for people who have small budgets and want to go fully electric.

The LEAF is a car that normal drivers will love. I recommend anyone who's interested in a 100% electric car but doesn't want to compromise with a cheap interior to check it out.

Also @colitis: the i-MiEV is a 100% electric car as well, so I don't see why they wouldn't mention the LEAF.

 

[Dreil]

I love the idea of electric cars, but the idea of having enough money to actually buy a car near-new seems foreign these days. I also do 110kms (~66miles) of commute at highway speeds back and forth, so in my situation electric might not even have the range. Satellite towns...

The Leaf's range is that or greater, so you can give it a go!

 

[Dreil]

Yeah, for that price--- and the price difference!-- it would be hard not to buy a Fiesta or a Fit, or even a Mazda3 Skyactiv...


As nice as the Teslas are, I don't think their reliability is proven yet, if that matters to you. They do appear to be going through quite a bit of new model teething issues, which is being exacerbated by the fact that their entire company is brand new...

I haven't heard any problems with the Teslas, and, considering how expensive they are, wouldn't expect too many...

 

[SirOmega]

I didn't realize Ars did car reviews. I'd be willing to do a write-up on my three month old 2012 Chevy Volt (bottom line: 500MPG) if Ars Technica is interested.

 

[Terminalmancer]

Someone needs to look at the mobile stylesheet--I read the article in Chrome on my Galaxy Nexus and the "The Competition" box was neg-indented way off to the left, making it unreadable.

 

[theJonTech]

Why are all the major manufacturers making such ugly electrics? This think looks hideous

Meanwhile Tesla makes very attractive looking vehicles that also perform like one would want.

Take the new Tesla S luxury sedan. 300 miles per charge, stellar performance, and looks great.

It's astounding that this upstart has just been kicking the crap out of companies that spend more on their design and R&D departments than Tesla makes as a whole company.

I like the design of the Leaf and Volt. The Leaf looks like thier Versa series and comes in cool colors. Kinda pricey all around though.

 

[mrpaco]

the drivers who would probably benefit most from such vehicles (those with short commutes or journeys) are least likely to be able to charge them up when needed. That's a shame.

This. I would love an EV, as I work from home and only need a car for local errands. However, I'd also have to run about 800 feet of extension cord across the parking lot and common areas of my condo to my assigned space.

 

[xaviermacx]

I'd just like to point out that I think the subheading to this article is hilarious.

 

[Akemi]

I like the design of the Leaf and Volt. The Leaf looks like thier Versa series and comes in cool colors. Kinda pricey all around though.

I look at it this way. Up front you'll pay a little more, but end up saving far more in the long run by only paying for the power costs to recharge your vehicle instead of gas. For the record, I pay $0.12 cents per KWh while gas has been fluctuating between $3 -$4 dollars per gallon and I need to refuel at least once a week. A single fill up costs me on average about $60. So I spend roughly $3,200 a year for gas - more if I need to travel. Seeing as I've had my vehicle since 2006, that's a little over $19,000 thus far in total gas using my average cost to refuel. The Tesla S is also not too much more than the Volt ($49,000 vs $38,900), about 10K more.

 

[SirOmega]

The Tesla S is also not too much more than the Volt ($49,000 vs $38,900), about 10K more.

That math is not correct. The baseline (140 mi) Model S is $49,000 after $7500 tax credit. The Volt is $32,500 after tax credit, so $16,500 difference.

 

[the old ran]

PULEEZE quote at least, near the cost of the chevy volt, not the faux price they are listing...

49,000 price...

-------------------->56,500
Other hidden costs paid by taxpayers
30-70,000
-------------------->85--->120,000+
(including federal and state funds to keep union workers employ, while GM is moving jobs to China)

 

[Telekenesis]

Why do they always have to make electric cars (or efficient cars for that matter) look like such wimps though? This thing looks like a bug out of a children's cartoon. The Volt doesn't seem to look too bad though.

 

[heftysmurf]

I'll continue to commute by foot or bike. I know that's not an option for everyone, but where it's practical I find that people never go back once they start - the benefits in cost, health, time and a number of other factors are very significant.

Still, I do find electric cars intriguing. I made a pact (with myself) that I would never get a car with an internal combustion engine; I've stuck to that, and these are some of the first cars that I could genuinely accept or consider buying. I wonder how long until they're available in Australia?

 

[krimhorn]

The looks is part of what I like about Ford's philosophy. When they're done with the design and retrofitting any car that they make will be able to have a IC, electric or hybrid powertrain. The EV and hybrids will be intentionally indistinguishable (visually) from the IC versions of the cars. As long as they continue to design nice looking cars (something they have flip-flopped around on) you'll be able to get a nice looking EV.

Affording one is another matter entirely.

 

[theJonTech]

I like the design of the Leaf and Volt. The Leaf looks like thier Versa series and comes in cool colors. Kinda pricey all around though.

I look at it this way. Up front you'll pay a little more, but end up saving far more in the long run by only paying for the power costs to recharge your vehicle instead of gas. For the record, I pay $0.12 cents per KWh while gas has been fluctuating between $3 -$4 dollars per gallon and I need to refuel at least once a week. A single fill up costs me on average about $60. So I spend roughly $3,200 a year for gas - more if I need to travel. Seeing as I've had my vehicle since 2006, that's a little over $19,000 thus far in total gas using my average cost to refuel. The Tesla S is also not too much more than the Volt ($49,000 vs $38,900), about 10K more.

I recently bought a car and had a choice between a Leaf and a sedan. I chose the Sedan due to the lack of miles I drive, the savings just wouldn't be there. However, I may go all electric on my next car as they come down in price. Between a Leaf and a BMW, I got the BMW for cheaper. That needs to change.

 

[wads]

As nice as the Teslas are, I don't think their reliability is proven yet, if that matters to you. They do appear to be going through quite a bit of new model teething issues, which is being exacerbated by the fact that their entire company is brand new...

What reliability problems have you heard or seen from Tesla? I've been watching them and haven't heard anything like that. As for reliability, they have had their Roadster out for about 5 years - so they do have a proven track record - which is actually more than these other companies with their first electrics just starting.

 

[normally butters]

Nowhere to plug in for me. I'm waiting for somebody (VW are you listening?) to make a turbodiesel-electric series hybrid. No plug. Pure electric drive with a diesel engine and a small battery or flywheel between the generator and the traction motor(s). This way the engine can run at its most efficient speed regardless of throttle position, and the turbocharger can operate at high pressure without worrying about turbo lag.

Offer me a Golf TDI with four in-wheel hub motors, and I'll offer up to $28K.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Now if only the power used to charge the battery was also not hydrocarbons...

 

[Rookie_MIB]

Between a Leaf and a BMW, I got the BMW for cheaper. That needs to change.

Indeed. That right there explains much of the problem for green tech. When you can buy a standard IC automobile (ie: Ford Fiesta) for anywhere in the range of $15,000, and an electric (or hybrid) is going to cost you double or treble, that right there eliminates most (if not all) of the financial incentive for going green. And face it, most people are cheap. Doing the math, you almost cannot recoup the costs of buying an EV/Hybrid during it's usable lifespan. According to the figures provided, to recoup the $10,000 premium assuming a savings of $700/year, you'd have to keep the vehicle for over 14 years.

That's just not going to happen.

Similar problem with solar tech - right now - the average recoup on investment vs lifespan is almost a zero-sum. By the time you save enough to pay it off, it's almost at the end of it's life span and may probably need replacing.

Both solar tech and EV/Hybrid vehicles need the same thing: A drop in cost to where the payoff is 5 years out. Not 15. Not 20. People (the majority at least) aren't going to purchase ANYTHING that doesn't have some sort of return or benefit.

 

[JimboPalmer]

A good many of the posters seem to think purchase price is the cost of a car. It is MUCH more likely that purchase price plus cost to drive it for 5 years is the cost of your car. This is especially true in my case, as I do 30,000 miles a year installing copiers for 1/3 of Mississippi. The cost of the Fiesta plus 5 years of gas at 33 MPG would be greater for me than the cost of the Prius and 5 years of gas at 50 MPG. For the Volt the closer your daily drive is to 35 miles, 70 miles if you can recharge at work, the cheaper it costs in most states where electricity is 1/10 the cost of gas. Again you need to know your commute.

(if like me, you are moving cargo, the Prius is by far the largest car, in this group, and comes in an even larger station wagon version)

I chose a Prius in 2009, none of the others were even choices then, today I would get the station wagon Prius v, if the Volt had fold flat rear seats it might be a contender, none of the others cope with a 250 mile day.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 1291_n.jpg

 

[somnia]

PULEEZE quote at least, near the cost of the chevy volt, not the faux price they are listing...

49,000 price...

-------------------->56,500
Other hidden costs paid by taxpayers
30-70,000
-------------------->85--->120,000+
(including federal and state funds to keep union workers employ, while GM is moving jobs to China)

I can't speak about the numbers you cited about the Volt's cost (but doubt it really costs 120K like you claim). Nor will I comment on the federal bailout of GM and Chrysler. But your China claim is simply wrong.

GM is not moving jobs from the United States to China. They are creating jobs in China because the Chinese won't allow GM to sell Buicks there unless they are produced in China.

Most cars manufactured by GM that are sold in the US are made in the US, Canada, or Mexico. In fact, the many Toyata's, Honda's, Kia's, etc sold in the US are manufactured in North America, not to mention the rest of Detroit. Get your facts straight.

 

[disdeinen]

Now if only the power used to charge the battery was also not hydrocarbons...

^^THIS

I think everyone really needs to seriously think about the fact that electricity does not fall from the sky.

 

[JimboPalmer]

I think everyone really needs to seriously think about the fact that electricity does not fall from the sky.

It does in Washington state, lots of hydro power.

http://www.greenterrafirma.com/greenhou ... icity.html

 

[visbis444]

Hah! America and it's pathetic 120V domestic power supply! ;-)

All of a sudden (I suppose my next car purchase may be electric) our 240V supply here in Australia actually has an appreciable advantage...

 

[visbis444]

Now if only the power used to charge the battery was also not hydrocarbons...

^^THIS

I think everyone really needs to seriously think about the fact that electricity does not fall from the sky.

We can't eliminate hydrocarbon emissions unless both energy providers AND our cars stop emitting. So a switch to electric cars is necessary.

Sure, the suppliers also need to change before we really get the results we want, but that doesn't make electric cars any less necessary.

 

[0megapart!cle]

These cars are getting more and more practical with every year. They still have a while ago, especially in the urban environments where their range is more useful but charging is more difficult. It is getting better in some areas. In Portland, they have what they call "Electric Avenue" with several of the fast chargers available, and Portland State University is working with the automakers on the technology. I was just recently in San Diego on vacation, and in the parking lot of the Air and Space Museum, there are several fast chargers hooked up to electric car2go Smart cars.

Personally, I think the subsidies on electric cars are some of the smartest things we could be spending our money on. It's a incredibly small fraction of the bloated military industrial complex, and is encouraging technology that will improve the quality of life in our communities (in the long run) and reduce our dependence on foreign oil (and that aforementioned MIC).

The Leaf definitely looks like one of the best options right now, although I agree that the price still needs to go down a fair amount while the range needs to go up.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Why are all the major manufacturers making such ugly electrics? This think looks hideous

Meanwhile Tesla makes very attractive looking vehicles that also perform like one would want.

My guess is that there are engineering considerations to making a car that looks AND performs acceptably like a Tesla that can jack up the price. Drag, weight, choice of components for ramped-up mass production, etc. There are some surprising tradeoffs for seemingly superficial changes that can have an impact on range, which is critical for battery-powered cars in places without sufficient charging stations.

 

[smellykaka]

Also @colitis: the i-MiEV is a 100% electric car as well, so I don't see why they wouldn't mention the LEAF.

When saying "X meets my needs better than Y" why should one be compelled to list all the alternatives to Y that also don't meet one's needs?

 

[Ars_Fan]

Now if only the power used to charge the battery was also not hydrocarbons...

^^THIS

I think everyone really needs to seriously think about the fact that electricity does not fall from the sky.

And we should not forget to mention that an electrical car needs much more petrol to get manufactured: rare earth compounds and lithium are mined in Peru and batteries are manufactured in Japan before starting to build car parts and assembling the car itself. And of course like petrol, Lithium is not an infinite ressource.

Despite the difficulties of accounting all these when buying a car, it is a necessity if we truly want cars to be green.

 

[0megapart!cle]

I think most of the clean coal marketing is lieing and distorting the truth to a great extent, but people need to keep in mind that there are kernels of truth there. The main one is that even the dirtiest, oldest coal plants in the US (that comply with regulations) are still at least an order of magnitude more efficient than the cleanest, most miserly automobile gasoline engine. While I absolutely agree that we need to move towards cleaner forms of mass power generation, powering your car off the current systems is still far more efficient and cleaner (per capita) than a conventional gasoline engine.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

Now if only the power used to charge the battery was also not hydrocarbons...

^^THIS

I think everyone really needs to seriously think about the fact that electricity does not fall from the sky.

 

[scophi]

One, that's about the ugliest car I've ever seen. I wouldn't buy it just based on it's looks.

Two, primary electric cars have a very limited consumer base. People who shouldn't buy them...apartment renters, condo owners, college students, people who live in rural areas, people who live in mountainous regions, people who travel or use their car for a living, any single person looking to start a relationship, and so on.

(Okay, the last one was a little mean. I apologize.)

But the rest of the examples hold true. The problem is that it's not as easy as the auto manufacturers might think to plug in your car. Where can you do this? If you have a house, then yes. But I can't run an extension cord out my apartment window, down to the ground floor and out a few hundred feet to my car in the parking lot each night. Same goes for condo owners and college students. Moreover, I can't do it when I'm on the road or in town. Am I supposed to ust carry an extension cord with me, pull into a 7-11, ask if I can drain their power, and sit for a half hour until the charge is sufficient to get me home? C'mon. If the car runs past it's charge limit, either the car is dead and will need to be towed back home, or it reverts to gas, in which case there is no point in having an electric car.

I have heard about charge stations (out on the west coast), but have never seen one myself. I have traveled in major cities from Florida to Ohio, from South Carolina to Texas. I have never seen a charge station. So these cars are basically made for stay at home moms who need to run a few errands each day. And they wonder why these cars aren't doing better? Seriously?

In my opinion, hybrids are by far the better option. Relying on electricity when it can and gas when it needs to. No worries about running out of charge or needing to plug in. The mileage is awesome especially for in-town driving. Hybrids are what I'll stick with. You can keep electrics.

 

[argamond]

I am curious. How many ppl will wait 1 hour at a charging station to fill the "tank". Also, refilling about every 3 days... does that sound viable to ppl?

I do about 600km (370mi) a week. A 70 mile capacity (less with lights, a/c) is a lot of time spent charging

 

[SirOmega]

And of course like petrol, Lithium is not an infinite ressource.

The states of Nevada and North Carolina have enough lithium deposits (30M and 14M metric tonnes respectively) to supply us with 3 billion 16kWh batteries. Considering there is only about 250M cars on the road in the US, I'm OK with those numbers. Nevermind the ability to harvest lithium from seawater.