SpaceX test-fires Starship for an all-important next flight

A notice to mariners suggests SpaceX's next Starship test flight could launch as soon as May 21.

See full article...

 

[Cthel]

Seeing all the hostility here, I'm reminded of the quote "those the gods wish destroyed, they first make angry". Lots of angry people here,.. Their ill will won't affect Elon and SpaceX, but it will affect them badly. Good luck all.

PSA: It's Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad, as in "Insane", not "Angry".

 

[AverageDutchGuy]

Stopped reading them when they made the decision to switch to a US-centric format, disowning their UK roots. Fuck 'em.

I too am still dismayed by the choice but I understand why they did it. If it helps, the comments section is still mostly UK based and focused.

 

[Ploroxide]

Yeah I used to love the comments section on here.

Now it's just a nightmare

Read the article and skip/skim the comments unless it’s the Rocket Report.

Oh, and use the ignore list liberally. I don’t see most of the childish stunts the others are complaining about because it really is the same bad actors over and over again.

 

[Aurich]

Maybe when the idiots took over and started attacking universities, scientific research, vaccines, immigrants, and any other number of things that have made this community angry. Its hard to focus on the science and technology when we are constantly bombarded by assholes running the country making stupid decisions. When all the news stories are about cuts to research and rolling back all sorts of advances that were made, in order to please the most foolish in our society, this is the result.

I would love to read more insightful comments, but given the current state of affairs, there is not much else to write about. I work at a major research institution and all the focus here is on trying to survive this administration, who are hell bent on destroying, not creating and developing new and exciting technology.

Well said.

I didn’t bring up last night, and should have just to emphasize it:

Elon Musk inserted himself into the government. He’s not just a tech bro with dumb tweets, he’s been both funding and actively participating in the destruction of science.

And SpaceX employees have been complicit in these actions. Not passively supporting him, or being silent, they have directly showed up to be part of DOGE activities.

It’s complicated, and messy. I have no problem with people rooting for rocket science, that’s very understandable to me.

But there is no separating what’s going on from the people doing it.

Ars is stuck in the middle. We’re going to cover what’s going on. That’s not stopping, both in terms of “yay, science!” and “oh shit, science …”

The comments have to live in that reality too. Anyone, on any side, being abusive will be moderated. But we’re not silencing those being critical of the politics, or telling people they can’t love science.

If you do love science then you have to just grapple with the reality.

In the meantime we are experimenting with leaving the Rocket Report comments as a space free from needing to have this conversation so constantly.

 

[Legatum_of_Kain]

Oh there’s going to be more fireworks with space junk soon, thanks for the heads up!

 

[raschumacher]

View attachment 109566View attachment 109567
What is with the orange? Fuel rich combustion(for whatever reason) and resulting incandescent carbon residue(soot)?
Maybe I've just never seen a sea level test of an Rvac. Flow separation and instabilities plus entrainment of more air causing secondary combustion of unburned hydrocarbons.

Is the flow of coolant fuel through the nozzles independently throttle-able? That could enhance the testing of vacuum engines at sea level.

 

[Speakertoanimals]

Read the article and skip/skim the comments unless it’s the Rocket Report.

Oh, and use the ignore list liberally. I don’t see most of the childish stunts the others are complaining about because it really is the same bad actors over and over again.

I find myself using ignore more and more. It is either that or walk away from the comments.

 

[pug fugly]

Did I miss something? When did the Ars comment section turn into a bunch of snarky children, instead of the intelligent adults we used to have around here?

When half of them decided fascism is ok so long as ROCKETS!

 

[Onomatopeon]

Moar boosters

Moar exposed stainless steel

 

[Onomatopeon]

What's happened to the Ars comment section is a travesty and blame sorely rests on the management. The only solution is that we buy the site from Conde Nast and fire the entire staff...
To keep this on topic, I still think they have tried to stuff too many engines into a single booster... I don't know how they will solve the resonance problem.

go stand in the corner and contemplate your choices that led you to this paragraph. points

 

[deadman12-4]

weird thought - starship failing is good for democracy and our freedom because its financially bad for musk.

 

[germanofthebored]

SpaceX has dramatically increased what nasa can afford, for example by shaving a billion dollars off the launch cost of Europa clipper. They’ve brought the real internet to farmers and people on remote native reserves. They keep the ISS running. These are but some of their achievements.

The fact that you wish ill on a company that has done so much to improve the lives of all humans says more about you than it does about Elon Musk.

I think the question is "What comes next?". What if Musk succeeds with Starship. He is going to dominate the launch market to an unprecedented degree, probably getting a monopoly (with some help from his orange friend). Now he will be able to build a global internet infrastructure. Should we trust him with that? Because he had no qualms turning that internet off for Ukraine when it was going to buy him some Brownie points with Putin. And with Twitter he also showed that he is pretty picky about what information is carried on his network. And a Mars colony run by him and his company sounds like a dystopian hell hole.

 

[germanofthebored]

With those long skinny pipes feeding the vacuum engines Marsboy really should have been keenly suspicious of pogo. One big pipe down to the "attic" would be less susceptible.

"Down to the attic" - you must be Australian!

 

[Ushio]

PSA: It's Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad, as in "Insane", not "Angry".

Well hopefully the second part happens to Elon and Trump since the mad part is well established now.

 

[Chuktuds]

PSA: It's Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad, as in "Insane", not "Angry".

Is anyone surprised at his (or whoever butchered that quote he copied) misunderstand of it? Of course the Musk apologists would have a 5 year old's understanding of what 'mad' means. LOL

 

[Emon]

Are you really so unable to control your emotions that you wish ill-will on SpaceX and the best chance for space exploration in the near future? Acting this way seems silly to me.

Are you really so unable to control your emotions that you ignore destruction of democracy for childish dreams of space exploration?

You act as if space exploration is some be all end all that's totally obviously worth any possible cost. Absurd. This is literally the exact logic used by Werner von Braun to justify Jewish slave labor.

If you convince yourself that the "conquest of space" is above all, you can ignore all sorts of atrocities. At that point it is just a religion.

 

[Chuktuds]

weird thought - starship failing is good for democracy and our freedom because its financially bad for musk.

nothing weird about it, just sound logic.

 

[shawnce]

To keep this on topic, I still think they have tried to stuff too many engines into a single booster... I don't know how they will solve the resonance problem.

Having more engines usually means having more variations in plumbing lengths to sets of engines and of course just slight natural minor variations from machining of the components. Additionally each engine will naturally have different transient combustion properties while running (or on purpose using intentional variations in operating parameters).

Anyway the up shot is with more engines you have a more potential for destructive interference than constructive interference. This typically reduces / limits the magnitude of resonance amplitude and hence helps avoid damage that can come from such resonance.

It is possible that if the Ship had more engines with more variations in plumbing they wouldn’t have this problem.

To me at the moment the downcomer and engine supply plumbing changes done in version 2 of the Ship is at fault. They can correct by redesign things some in version 3 of Ship based on the data they now have to improve their modeling.

In the short term they could put in place pneumatic dampeners, structural members, and/or adjust propellent and engine operational parameters during later aspects of the flight to avoid the worst of the likely pogo issue.

I see nothing implying the can’t correct the issue nor that the number of engines is anything other than a general benefit in doing so.

Note the booster has been working well and is well ahead of the Ship in terms of its planned operation and reuse. The booster has far more engines then the Ship.

 

[ddbcretin]

The heat shield is not just upgraded.

...SpaceX wanted to characterize the Ship's resilience to TPS damage, as well as explore the performance of potential future improvements to the TPS. I'd expect the same (if not even more expansive) set of experiments will be in place for flight 9...

So, if they recover this one will there be a TPS report? I'm thinking about that cover sheet.

 

[ranthog]

I think the question is "What comes next?". What if Musk succeeds with Starship. He is going to dominate the launch market to an unprecedented degree, probably getting a monopoly (with some help from his orange friend). Now he will be able to build a global internet infrastructure. Should we trust him with that? Because he had no qualms turning that internet off for Ukraine when it was going to buy him some Brownie points with Putin. And with Twitter he also showed that he is pretty picky about what information is carried on his network. And a Mars colony run by him and his company sounds like a dystopian hell hole.

Even if you're in love with NASA and space exploration, the writing is on the wall that we're not going to have NASA or space exploration left with the way President Musk is driving the government.

If you doubt this, look at the White House's opening proposal for the NASA budget.

At best, the only thing that will be left are nationalistic flag plantings on foreign bodies, with our ability to make any further progress crippled because the educational system has been dismantled and scientific research stopped.

I don't see the appeal in that. It leaves space as some sort of dystopian horror show rather than something exciting.

Edit: I say this as someone who spent good money to fly out to Florida to view the final launch of the Space Shuttle program. I'd love to be excited about this.

 

[raschumacher]

"Down to the attic" - you must be Australian!

(G'day, Bruce!) As I understand it SpaceX calls the space between the engines and the tankage the "attic".

 

[Chopfuna]

What's happened to the Ars comment section is a travesty and blame sorely rests on the management. The only solution is that we buy the site from Conde Nast and fire the entire staff...
To keep this on topic, I still think they have tried to stuff too many engines into a single booster... I don't know how they will solve the resonance problem.

The problem is with the ship which only has 6 engines not with the booster that has 33. I don’t think the problem is the number of engines.

 

[eyesoars]

It would be good for them to fire Elon Musk, so that they can continue making advancements, he's nothing but a heavy boat anchor on the company he bought. He is waste, fraud, and abuse that needs to be removed.

Hard to do that when he owns a majority interest in the company.

 

[deadman12-4]

gotta admit - I've started to wonder if the starship plans are just like the mar plans. More well defined but the same basic idea - lies and bullshit.
The starship timeline has already missed its bs deadline (err been updated) many times (2018, 2020, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2026, ect). The number of things required before a lunar landing are enormous. none of which have ever been done before. I know we are all in love with the idea, but I cannot convince myself its not more musk bullshit anymore

 

[TracklessDeep]

weird thought - starship failing is good for democracy and our freedom because its financially bad for musk.

Yes, exactly. I love the technology, but daggone it I wish someone else was doing it. Someone (or organization) that wasn’t hip-deep in fascism.

 

[eyesoars]

True, but a big difference is that the tests have undergone some major changes, along with heavy's upper ring.

The most recent RUD should have provided a great deal of extra test data, allowing SpaceX to correctly determine the causes of the mission failure. It's likely they've made multiple changes to address issue(s) believed to contribute to the problem, and with some luck, one or more of them will work, allowing the next flight to succeed. Hopefully at least through the entire boost phase...

 

[Cthel]

Is anyone surprised at his (or whoever butchered that quote he copied) misunderstand of it? Of course the Musk apologists would have a 5 year old's understanding of what 'mad' means. LOL

It's certainly a "convenient" misunderstanding, isn't it?

If one person you talk to gets angry, they are the problem
If every person you talk to gets angry, You are the problem It's totally proof that God is on your side, Bro!

 

[DCStone]

Even if you're in love with NASA and space exploration, the writing is on the wall that we're not going to have NASA or space exploration left with the way President Musk is driving the government.

If you doubt this, look at the White House's opening proposal for the NASA budget.

At best, the only thing that will be left are nationalistic flag plantings on foreign bodies, with our ability to make any further progress crippled because the educational system has been dismantled and scientific research stopped.

I don't see the appeal in that. It leaves space as some sort of dystopian horror show rather than something exciting.

Edit: I say this as someone who spent good money to fly out to Florida to view the final launch of the Space Shuttle program. I'd love to be excited about this.

The cynic in me says that the only space activities the current US administration wants to engage in are those that funnel the most taxpayer dollars to a highly select pool of companies owned by billionaires (rather than spreading the money around). Realistically, planetary observation and solar system exploration do neither of those things, so they're out.

The cynic in me is also getting very tired of being right.

 

[ranthog]

The cynic in me says that the only space activities the current US administration wants to engage in are those that funnel the most taxpayer dollars to a highly select pool of companies owned by billionaires (rather than spreading the money around). Realistically, planetary observation and solar system exploration do neither of those things, so they're out.

The cynic in me is also getting very tired of being right.

The cynic and optimist in me agree that the current administration doesn't like any science because facts are inconvenient.

 

[EllPeaTea]

gotta admit - I've started to wonder if the starship plans are just like the mar plans. More well defined but the same basic idea - lies and bullshit.
The starship timeline has already missed its bs deadline (err been updated) many times (2018, 2020, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2026, ect). The number of things required before a lunar landing are enormous. none of which have ever been done before. I know we are all in love with the idea, but I cannot convince myself its not more musk bullshit anymore

Oh no, a rocket program is behind schedule!
That definitely didn’t happen with Ariane 6. Or ULA's Vulcan. Or Japan's H-3. Or SLS. Or New Glenn. Or Neutron.

 

[shawnce]

I know we are all in love with the idea, but I cannot convince myself its not more musk bullshit anymore

They sure are spending a lot of the companies human effort, resources, and money on this “bullshit” as you see it.

Look I despise Elon for the actions he has taken (disliked him generally before that for his amplified hate filled words and tolerated him before that). I also despise those SpaceX employees (and others in his circle) that have participated in the actions the Elon has taken in frankly attacking the United States…. but I try not to paint everything in that color unless it clearly should be.

Anyway HLS is behind (also way overkill for the reality is/was for Artemis) and yes Starship is also well behind the range of BHAGs Elon and others put out for it (rather normal for Elon). It however is clearly making progress and clearly close to being able to be a useful super heavy lift system for at least LEO. This aspect isn’t bullshit and the step from being useful for LEO to being useful for beyond LEO should become easier and easier as they fly the thing to LEO, which they will be doing.

 

[Snark218]

SpaceX has dramatically increased what nasa can afford, for example by shaving a billion dollars off the launch cost of Europa clipper. They’ve brought the real internet to farmers and people on remote native reserves. They keep the ISS running. These are but some of their achievements.

The fact that you wish ill on a company that has done so much to improve the lives of all humans says more about you than it does about Elon Musk.

If you are attempting to tell me that the guy who gutted USAID, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, NIH, NOAA, and NSF should get let off the hook and called a humanitarian and champion of science, you are a wildly unserious person, running cover for same.

I really don't give a fuck about people living in the ass end of beyond getting "real internet" if that benefits the guy installing himself as an oligarch, my man. Or saving money on launching Europa Clipper. Or any of the rest. And I don't think you particularly care about those things either, except insofar as they're ammunition for the argument that anything else he does is excusable because he's launching more rockets quicker, that being all that apparently actually matters to you. So yes, emphatically: I'd give up everything he's ever accomplished if it meant winding back the damage he's done to democracy, to science, and to our society. I cannot fathom anyone feeling differently unless they're just a near-total nihilist with no actual ethical, moral, or social convictions besides one's desire to see more rockets get launched quicker.

 

[Snark218]

They sure are spending a lot of the companies human effort, resources, and money on this “bullshit” as you see it.

Look I despise Elon for the actions he has taken (disliked him generally before that for his amplified hate filled words and tolerated him before that). I also despise those SpaceX employees (and others in his circle) that have participated in the actions the Elon has taken in frankly attacking the United States…. but I try not to paint everything in that color unless it clearly should be.

Why not? How much, and for how long, do you need to be lied to before you conclude that someone is a liar and not to be trusted?

 

[Bannerdog]

Moar struts.

What does that mean?

 

[Earthmapper]

While I'm certainly not a fan of Elon Musk at this point, SpaceX, and its people, have goals that I can get behind. Space is hard to get to, hard to live in and damn hard to do on another world where you can't resupply with a "simple" ISS resupply launch. Think of the advancements that will come from trying to do it though. How do we protect people from the radiation? How do we create life-support systems using the resources available on Mars? Can we grow food there? Use the Martian regolith as building material? The list goes on and answers to those questions may well help improve life here in ways that we can't picture yet.

Do I like DOGE, heck no. Do I like Musk's politics? Absolutely not. Can I appreciate the amazing efforts of the people at his companies without thinking that they're all Nazi minions? Absolutely.

I'll +1 this sentiment.

 

[Flitzpiepe]

Such a tired and boring narrative. Nazi this, nazi that. Dismantling this, dismantling that. Don’t you get exhausted by perpetually spouting this drivel? I know there is no way to change your mind about anything personally, but damn, it’s just so boring at this point. Can you please complain about something else? ANYTHING else.

Yes, we understand people complaining about Hitler in year one. But by year three it go really boring…..

Sarcasm, obviously. Because history happened only to prove all complaining not to have been enough… so, there’s a lesson for anyone overcoming their boredom.