The Neo won't be for everyone, but Apple has managed to preserve a premium feel.
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MacBook Neo hands-on: Apple build quality at a substantially lower price
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MacOS Aggressively memory usage trying it’s best to keep Real memory available forthe active task. until a year ago most Macs only came with 8gb of Ram.
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The MagSafe cable for on my M2 Air is in my travel kit, but I also hardly ever use it because I’m always topping it off from the USB-C cable I use for other devices. If I’m using it at a desk, it is similarly plugged into the USB-C cable for the external monitor most of the time.
With battery life being what it is, I just don’t have to keep it plugged in the way I did my old Intel MacBook Pro so the occasional USB-C charge works fine.
Plus my cat loves the mouthfeel of woven cables, so I have to be careful of what cables I leave out. They have to have smooth plastic cladding, so he can’t be trusted with any of the stock Apple cables these days (my wife had to put a nylon sleeve on the power cable for her M4 Mini).
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The base Mac mini came with 8GB of ram until about a year ago, didn’t it? There’s plenty you can do with a Mac at 8GB.
Granted, I didn’t buy a Mac Mini until the base model had 16 GB ram but plenty of people did and still have them and they work fine.
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I think the memory and processor are probably fine for the targets of this laptop. It should be at least as good as the M1 Air it's basically replacing and that's still plenty usable for a lot of people. Can you run out of memory or peg all the cores? Sure but for basic mac usage it should be fine (other than chrome tab hoarders). The USB-C ports are a bummer. Not surprising given the likely limitations of the phone/tablet targeted SOC but still a bummer. You used to be able to know it would just work on a Mac. There were some edge cases where something might be slower but it still worked.
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Rumour has it this is a limitation of the A18 Pro iPhone processor. If they put a regular A18 it wouldn't even support the 10Gbps (like the regular iPhone 16). Seems like they are reusing their existing (perhaps left over???) stock for the cost savingS
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The RAM is most likely limited by the A18pro - the iPhone 16 pro had 8GB, too.
So I bet once Apple moves to the next model with potentially a an A19 pro, the MacBook neo will probably move to 12GB RAM, too.
8GB RAM is less of an issue than people make it. Most people were happy campers with 8GB just two years ago.
12 GB will almost certainly make it a no issue for the large majority.
And “Apple intelligence “, well , I am not sure anyone would miss it.
So I bet once Apple moves to the next model with potentially a an A19 pro, the MacBook neo will probably move to 12GB RAM, too.
8GB RAM is less of an issue than people make it. Most people were happy campers with 8GB just two years ago.
12 GB will almost certainly make it a no issue for the large majority.
And “Apple intelligence “, well , I am not sure anyone would miss it.
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My experience is most people can barely tell the difference between a terrible screen and a great one. Color calibration or color space don't mean anything to them. I doubt people will notice or care and it's sounds like it's still miles ahead of your typical screens on windows laptops at this price point.
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I paid £300 to get my mother in law a basic 14" Acer laptop a few weeks ago. She didn't need much, but she needed it to run a desktop OS and not be frustrating at any point. The range of medium-sized non-chromebook options at the £300 mark that had 8GB of RAM, at least 100GB of proper SSD storage, an uninterestingly acceptable display, and something better than a cheap-chips processor was pretty thin. What we ended up getting did meet the criteria on paper, and was at least tolerable in all respects in person, but we got lucky that it was on sale. I wouldn't have bought it for me, and if her budget was higher I wouldn't have picked it for her.
You can say 'mobile chip' this and '8GB' that but ultimately this MBNeo is twice the computer that one was, and at list price it isn't even twice as expensive. Which means it will eat its target "one-better-than-budget" segment alive.
You can say 'mobile chip' this and '8GB' that but ultimately this MBNeo is twice the computer that one was, and at list price it isn't even twice as expensive. Which means it will eat its target "one-better-than-budget" segment alive.
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I'm always surprised by modern RAM management. The OS will manage RAM usage based on installed and available RAM, rather than the minimum demands of the software running. If you take an 8GB system and install the exact OS, exact extensions (if any), and run the same programs and open the same tabs as your data point, you will find that the values in activity monitor are completely different, and everything might fit in a 7.5 GB footprint, without even going to swap. The compressed memory value will account for some difference, but not all. Modern RAM management is complex and mysterious and can easily lead users to think they need more than they actually do, because the system is optimizing performance and efficiency to available resources, not just simply allocating resources until they're full like in the old days.
That said, I'm "stuck" on an M1 and a M1 Pro system, both with 16 GB, and I wish I had gone for 32 when I had the chance, simply so I could run more robust virtual machines without going to swap. On the other hand, modern storage can be so fast that swap is generally only a problem if you're worried about SSD wear, and the latest data shows that there's actually nothing to worry about there either.
So what I'm saying is, spring for the extra RAM if you can afford it, but if you can't, don't sweat it, the computer will manage just fine. Activity monitor can give you an idea what's going on with your system, but results won't replicate on a system with a different RAM config.
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Could this replace my M1 iPad Pro with Magic keyboard? I was looking at the 12.9” but while the current device works, having to spend around $1700 seems too much just for the larger screen as I mostly use it for light browsing and casual games when on the couch.
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Many commenters are puzzled or disappointed by limitations which seem to be imposed by using the A18 Pro, which debuted in 2024's iPhone 16 Pro.
At first, the Mx series chips were Ax series chips with extra instructions and computer-related capabilities. Now the Neo is apparently putting an actual iPhone CPU into a notebook chassis. Therefore, RAM expansion is impossible and port capabilities were designed with iPhone needs in mind, as noted in the previous AC article.
Perhaps this needs to be noted in each Arsticle to defray confusion.
According to my several minutes of research, the A18 Pro gives roughly M2-equivalent performance at roughly half the TDP (Thermal Design Power). This means it uses far less energy. Hopefully, testing will prove this reasonably true.
Also, chuffed to see Thom in the comments again!
At first, the Mx series chips were Ax series chips with extra instructions and computer-related capabilities. Now the Neo is apparently putting an actual iPhone CPU into a notebook chassis. Therefore, RAM expansion is impossible and port capabilities were designed with iPhone needs in mind, as noted in the previous AC article.
Perhaps this needs to be noted in each Arsticle to defray confusion.
According to my several minutes of research, the A18 Pro gives roughly M2-equivalent performance at roughly half the TDP (Thermal Design Power). This means it uses far less energy. Hopefully, testing will prove this reasonably true.
18GB?
The new-type woven cables are much less stiff. Perhaps that will help them survive longer. (Although they are quite slippy as a result.) One conspiracy theorist online suggested that Apple's cables became fragile when they stopped using PVC. So in trying to help the environment, they ended up generating loads of e-waste.
Unless you need (or very much want) the extra power, I'd think the MBA would be suitable. Plus just think of all the biscuits you could buy with 1000 USD! (I was looking at the MBP 16" M5 Pro and thought to myself that I could purchase a MBP 14" M5 and another M4 mini and still have money for several plates of chips.)
I personally find it less satisfying.
Also, chuffed to see Thom in the comments again!
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The one thing I'll say about memory usage, as I have years of using the M1 Air under my belt now, is that 8GB is reasonable enough for web browsing and most other usage.
The one notable exception that's part of most folks' daily lives? MS Office. Whether the full fat application or the site (at least, rendered with Chrome), it's a chore to use on my base M1 Air.
Mind you, I still made it through an MBA program using that laptop, but there were times when I definitely not only noticed a difference, but it was laggy enough to mildly interfere with my productivity (e.g. screen basically froze during video recordings in Powerpoint, even though it did continue to capture the recording just fine).
Other stuff is handled impressively well. I've used TinkerCAD in a browser, KiCAD for PCB layouts, compiled Java apps, re-encoded video to new formats, etc. It's not going to win any speed contests, but it feels zippy enough, which is all most people actually care about!
The one notable exception that's part of most folks' daily lives? MS Office. Whether the full fat application or the site (at least, rendered with Chrome), it's a chore to use on my base M1 Air.
Mind you, I still made it through an MBA program using that laptop, but there were times when I definitely not only noticed a difference, but it was laggy enough to mildly interfere with my productivity (e.g. screen basically froze during video recordings in Powerpoint, even though it did continue to capture the recording just fine).
Other stuff is handled impressively well. I've used TinkerCAD in a browser, KiCAD for PCB layouts, compiled Java apps, re-encoded video to new formats, etc. It's not going to win any speed contests, but it feels zippy enough, which is all most people actually care about!
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Testament to how powerful computers/phones have become. =)
I am glad that Apple came out with this and that, yes, not everything needs to have the computing power of a scientific supercomputer of 10 years ago.
I'd love for someone to come up with a computer that is just fast enough for web tasks + media playing, but with a battery life of an old Nokia phone. =)
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The part that I find almost odd about this conversation is that this device is kitted out with the same internals as a flagship phone that isn't even 1 1/2 years old yet. Even the display resolution is fairly comparable to the phone, the NEO simply has bigger pixels.
So it would be odd to say that one of the fastest phones on the market is suddenly unusable because the screen is bigger. Yes I get that some desktop apps may not be as well optimized as their mobile counterparts, but people are using phones all day long for the same tasks they would likely use this laptop for. As long as you are suspending background apps and not trying to do a lot of multitasking it's like having a phone with a keyboard attached to it.
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at this point I feel the big push is power efficiency over raw power. sort of a trickle-down effect from the massive popularity of portable devices like ipads and iphones and people running their entire lives off of those instead of a computer.
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This.
They could at least just put some sort of label on the port.
This also is a problem with HDMI ports on tvs. Not all of them are the same and it usually requires consulting the manual to find out which is which. It bugs the hell out of me.
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"The biggest sticking point for many buyers will be the processor"
Are you sure now? In geekbench 6 at least A18 Pro has 40% better multicore performance than the fastest ever i9 chip that was in macbook pro not so many years ago. (i9-9980hk)
And single core performance is ridiculous at 2.5X
I think many are confused about how capable iphone processors are.
Are you sure now? In geekbench 6 at least A18 Pro has 40% better multicore performance than the fastest ever i9 chip that was in macbook pro not so many years ago. (i9-9980hk)
And single core performance is ridiculous at 2.5X
I think many are confused about how capable iphone processors are.
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The average person doesn't even know what HDR is, let alone care. They know about 4k but don't particularly care about it, based on what ppl watch and on what devices.
I've brought up HDR and dolby vision among ppl many times (like when HBO made it an add-on premium tier) and they were like "huh?" I then try to explain that HDR is actually more important than 4k in terms of a noticable difference vs hd and proceed to watch their eyes glaze over.
You have to remember that most people just leave their tv's at the eye-searing out of the box settings and LOVE the soap opera effect setting.
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This is a nonsensical comment. HDR has very little to do with sRGB vs P3, because HDR is not about color space specifically, it has to do with luminance range.
Yes, P3 is part of HDR standards, but beyond that, here is the main way your reply falls apart:
You say someone should get a MacBook Air instead. Well, because HDR is really about peak luminance, the MacBook Air screen can only reach 500 nits...the same as the MacBook Neo!!!
Neither laptop can reach the 1000 nits needed for actual HDR, you need a MacBook Pro screen for that.
Now maybe you are complaining that the sRGB screen of the Neo means you can't do "fake HDR" either (like HDR10). Well, look, if someone is unhappy about that, it won't be the biggest thing they'll be unhappy about in the Neo. Before they worry about HDR, they'll probably worry first that one of the USB ports is only slow USB 2.0 but not labeled any differently, or that it can't have more than 8GB, or the base model doesn't have TouchID, or the keyboard isn't backlit...or...
It's no different than the iPads and Macs have been for years. You want HDR? Get the Pro line. You didn't buy the Pro line? No HDR.
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Although the Neo is not what I will ever buy (my applications need lots of RAM and GPU), I'm quite happy to see the Neo introduced. It will be the perfect laptop for the friends and family I know who, in the past, have bought the cheapest 8GB MacBook Air just to read email, browse the web, and watch YouTube, and so they keep the same MacBook Air for 10 years and are happy.
Now they can do that for about a third lower price, with the Neo.
Now they can do that for about a third lower price, with the Neo.
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Fifteen months ago I replaced my 16GB/512Gb 2012 MBP Retina with M4 MB Pro. Original battery (good for several hours of use), though I had bumped up the SSD from 256Gb. It's crazy that it was still in good shape after 12 years. Maybe my next computer will be one that plugs into a cranial connector...
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I imagine the A18pro performs better than it does on a phone, at least for longer periods, simply because of better heat dissipation and thermal headroom.
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That was a big reason why the Windows 11 TPM requirement stung so much. It made older hardware that was still perfectly capable obsolete. Of course there is a rumor circulating today about an NPU requirement for Windows 12.
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Well, my thinking is more like...my 2019 iMac and M1 MBA are both getting pretty long in the tooth. I could replace them both with a single device if I got the MBP and save several hundred dollars over the combination of a mini plus an MBA. That would be the justification for splurging on the more expensive laptop: all the power of the high-end mini for a machine that I could take with me if necessary.
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In the early 2000s PC performance hit a wall due to issues with heat dissipation. Intel had major issues getting the Pentium 4 to 4 GHz and ultimately was forced to abandon the Netburst architecture in favor of Core which was based on a design optimized for laptops. The emphasis in the past couple of decades on multiple cores has been driven in part by thermal limitations on single-core performance.
Since the ARM architecture was designed for low power consumption, it has been able to scale up to match and even beat x86 designs; also, phones and PCs these days are using processors from comparable fabrication nodes (and arguably the phone CPUs are ahead there) so one might expect phone CPU performance to meet or exceed PCs in certain cases.
The Apple CPU cores are certainly quite competitive in single-core performance with anything designed/fabbed by Intel or AMD these days. And FWIW we're less than 18 months out from the introduction of the A18 Pro in devices, not two years.
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They’ll be more than fine. I posted this in the other thread, but since it’s being discussed here, I’ll repost it as a genuine PSA: 8GB is still reasonable for a MSRP $600 laptop.
I was really surprised in this video that 8GB is still extremely peformant: Is 8GB Enough For Laptops? - YouTube
It shows a frame-by-frame identical comparison of opening, using, and multi-tasking between a dozen applications on an identical 8GB laptop vs a 16GB laptop.
- Chrome with 24x heavy ad-ridden tabs and
- Zoom & live meeting briefly open and
- Slack open and
- Discord channel open and
- Task Manager open and
- Microsoft Word doc w/ images open and
- 4x large PowerPoints (100+ slides with images) open and
- Export PowerPoint → PDF save in the background and
- Adobe Photoshop filters & effects (8GB notably slower) and
- Topaz AI open and running a 4x upscaling and
- Here, the 24x Chrome tabs start to reload on the 8GB unit
- Microsoft Excel open with a large sheet.
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I don’t expect you to know this, but Macs pretty much use most of their available RAM all the time. Apps can hold on to way more than they need, for example internal caching of thumbnails, and the OS can call on apps to purge unnecessary memory when needed. It’s a step beyond just “use any free RAM for page cache” which is a standard strategy for making the most of your RAM.
NSCache is one example of how app developers can claim more memory to boost their app performance but give it back when others need it.
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People also don't realize that Apple's CPU advantage is so absurd that an A18 Pro has faster single-thread performance than literally any Intel or AMD processor and multicore performance comparable to high-end desktop parts from just a few years ago. Like, Ryzen 7 5800-ish multicore. In a phone chip, in a $600 MacBook.
CPU performance will be the least of anyone's worries with this thing.
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They’re saying it can handle 16 hrs of battery, and Apple’s estimates are usually pretty decent for typical use
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They also have very performant ram compression for that use, which can stretch low RAM further, and the shared memory means the GPU isnt eating RAM the way a typical iGPU would, nor is there a need for RAM duplication between two pools.
It’d be nice if it had more memory, but 8GB should be solid for the machine’s intended target
Also given other companies are moving to lower RAM amounts on their machines because of this shortage it’s likely going to be competing with machines with similar RAM quantities but without Apple’s mitigations to handle that
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Multitasking is the key concern I would expect with 8GB, which iPhones notoriously hardly do.
It’s a reasonable question to ask if 8GB is enough. We need empirical testing and actual usage, which millions of 8GB macOS owners and reviewers can provide.
Mobile apps expect 4GB - 8GB total system memory.
Mobile apps are more rigorously tested by Apple & developers. They’ll behave more predictably.
Mobile apps are always designed to gracefully leave memory and return to the foreground.
macOS has menu bar / background apps and services that iOS clearly does not, both first party and third party.
Nobody should be surprised people ask the question. But the answer is more surprising: 8GB runs macOS very well and virtually any mainstream app. It’ll be more prosumer applications that suffer, like editing large videos with filters and effects, or very heavy multitasking.
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Sadly, it’s 16 hours video, but 11 hours web browsing. 11 hours is more likely the typical usage.
Unfortunately, it’s got a tablet-sized battery, instead of a MacBook sized one, but 11 hours browsing is just precisely one hour more than ChromeOS requires for certification.
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Apple seems to have walked the fine line of making an inexpensive device and not a "cheap" one. They did what they could and what they had to for preserving the overall customer experience while finding more subtle ways to reduce the cost. Interesting though that it's a fully independent chassis design and not just an Air with different internals packed inside, the thickness will probably help with durability or repair in the target education segment
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11 hrs should still be enough for any student, especially since it charges with a 20w brick like nearly everyone carrying a phone already is going to have in their backpack at school (and for that matter can probably be powered for a fair bit of time off a typical phone battery pack a lot of folks already carry in their backpacks too)
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