Great performance for the price, if you ignore the price of RAM, SSDs, and GPUs.
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Intel Core Ultra 270K and 250K Plus review: Conditionally great CPUs
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The 250k and 270k are listed in this article at $199 and $299, but all the places selling them in the US have them listed starting at $219 and $349 respectively. It's still good value, but it might be good to clarify that the prices in the article are either incorrect or are possibly the "tray" cost for system integrators rather than the retail price
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The perfect shit storm to drive people to seek shelter over in camp Linux.
I hope some people at least give it a try. If you're just looking for gaming, Bazzite is legitimately extremely impressive as a no config, user friendly gaming distro. I'm an actual, real-life Linux user but I threw Bazzite on one of my SSDs just to see what all the fuss was about. I kept it around as my "distraction-free" gaming environment. I can and do still play games on my primary distro, but if I just want to hop into some games and not get distracted by some other project, I boot into Bazzite where I have nothing but my games and a browser to stream music.
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Compared to memory and storage prices, kinda. There was the tariff fuckery of course, but god damn memory prices hurt. Flash and magnetic storage isn't far behind.
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Years ago I had this year pegged out for my next upgrade. I thought I'd treat myself to a silly amount of RAM for some of the simulation stuff I do for fun. That's not happening any time soon and without a RAM upgrade, there's no real point upgrading my CPU, so I guess my system will have to last another few years as is.
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I got a 265KF in December. I got a $900 CAD bundle to save on RAM so ended up with new board and RAM when it would have been almost 500 for the RAM alone. So let’s call it 250-300 CAD for chip. The board even has Thunderbolt! Saved about 300 because of the bundle.
For comparison, the 9800X3D was over $600 CAD for the chip, since I do some work and play games at 21:9 1440p or in VR, AMD really doesn’t have a huge advantage because of being GPU bound. These gaming bench marks that heavily favor AMD are often at 1080p. I got a 20 core chip for half the price of an 8 core chip! On my 9070XT, I lose maybe 10fps vs a AMD X3D CPU but it was half the money!
These are excellent chips for the money, and unless you upgrade every generation and play Fortnite at 1080p 300fps AMD really isn’t doing it for me.
I literally got a Sapphire Nitro+ 9070XT with the money saved vs equivalent AM5 board + RAM at retail and an X3D chip.
There are deals out there but not on the high end parts that get all the hype!
For comparison, the 9800X3D was over $600 CAD for the chip, since I do some work and play games at 21:9 1440p or in VR, AMD really doesn’t have a huge advantage because of being GPU bound. These gaming bench marks that heavily favor AMD are often at 1080p. I got a 20 core chip for half the price of an 8 core chip! On my 9070XT, I lose maybe 10fps vs a AMD X3D CPU but it was half the money!
These are excellent chips for the money, and unless you upgrade every generation and play Fortnite at 1080p 300fps AMD really isn’t doing it for me.
I literally got a Sapphire Nitro+ 9070XT with the money saved vs equivalent AM5 board + RAM at retail and an X3D chip.
There are deals out there but not on the high end parts that get all the hype!
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Those are the MSRPs in every coverage I've seen so I assume that came from Intel. Those might be tray prices or the positive coverage may just have pushed all retail the listings above MSRP. Either way on the productivity side of things they are both a steal but that does push the 270k pretty close to the street pricing of the 7800x3D which will pretty clearly beat it on the gaming side of things.
I'm really mixed about the dead end platform thing. On the one hand I've been doing this computer thing for decades and almost never upgrade the CPU on the same socket for meaningful performance. By the time CPU improvements are big enough to want to upgrade you've got other things that need upgrading too and you just end up with a new platform. Newer/faster memory, newer faster PCI-E/M.2 slots now a days, better USB, etc. If I were building one of these systems now I'd probably be keeping it well into the DDR6 era which would mean a new MB anyway.
On the other hand I did upgrade my Ryzen 1500x to a 5600x as a drop in replacement on the same motherboard and it was a massive improvement. I've upgraded to a newer AM4 MB since then but I did do a drop in upgrade and gone from 8gbs of ram to 32gb on the same motherboard. That was probably about the best case scenario and really even AM5 might not live up to that level of improvement, especially if you are looking at your starting point being a current 9000 series chip. Nova lake does look potentially very nice with stupidly high core counts on the high end chips and finally a x3D equivalent with a large last level cache so might be a rare exception to a big uplift in a single generation.
In the end you can never predict the actual value you'll end up getting out of a potential future upgrade. I didn't know when I bought my 1500X that I'd be able to drop in something several generations new or that it would be significantly better. For a while it looked like I'd even need a new motherboard on the same socket to pull it off but AMD came to their senses once everyone told them they were being stupid. AMD looks like it will have a generation or two of future processors on their same socket that may offer both good single threaded improvements and more cores which could make for good drop in upgrades. Intel's next gen looks also looks like it will offer the same thing and it won't be socket compatible so it does look like this socket will limit you from meaningful drop in upgrades but that just guessing and trying to read the tea leaves right now.
I'm really mixed about the dead end platform thing. On the one hand I've been doing this computer thing for decades and almost never upgrade the CPU on the same socket for meaningful performance. By the time CPU improvements are big enough to want to upgrade you've got other things that need upgrading too and you just end up with a new platform. Newer/faster memory, newer faster PCI-E/M.2 slots now a days, better USB, etc. If I were building one of these systems now I'd probably be keeping it well into the DDR6 era which would mean a new MB anyway.
On the other hand I did upgrade my Ryzen 1500x to a 5600x as a drop in replacement on the same motherboard and it was a massive improvement. I've upgraded to a newer AM4 MB since then but I did do a drop in upgrade and gone from 8gbs of ram to 32gb on the same motherboard. That was probably about the best case scenario and really even AM5 might not live up to that level of improvement, especially if you are looking at your starting point being a current 9000 series chip. Nova lake does look potentially very nice with stupidly high core counts on the high end chips and finally a x3D equivalent with a large last level cache so might be a rare exception to a big uplift in a single generation.
In the end you can never predict the actual value you'll end up getting out of a potential future upgrade. I didn't know when I bought my 1500X that I'd be able to drop in something several generations new or that it would be significantly better. For a while it looked like I'd even need a new motherboard on the same socket to pull it off but AMD came to their senses once everyone told them they were being stupid. AMD looks like it will have a generation or two of future processors on their same socket that may offer both good single threaded improvements and more cores which could make for good drop in upgrades. Intel's next gen looks also looks like it will offer the same thing and it won't be socket compatible so it does look like this socket will limit you from meaningful drop in upgrades but that just guessing and trying to read the tea leaves right now.
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You know what they say. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I've juggled around so many AM4 CPUs and Mobos in my house that I've lost count. I started with a 2700X, upgraded to a 3900X then 5800X3D. Some of those old CPUs spent some time in my server before upgrading it to a 5950X. My wife went from a...5600G I think to a 5800X3D. I think I grabbed a 5700X3D to build a friend a rig for when he stays at our house to watch the dogs and I think I gave him my wife's old APU. There are probably some I'm missing in there.
It's nice that they have a long life instead of becoming basically dead after a couple of generations. I have all of those AM4 systems but if I look back at my Intel stuff, it mostly all lived a single life in a single system. My wife's old Haswell CPU did get dropped in an old Dell 1L to server router duties, but that was basically dumb luck that they were the same gen.
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Sure. All else being equal the option of platform upgrades is not a bad thing. Do I want to pay double for the CPU to get an AM5 system that can match the productivity/multi-threaded performance just for the possibility of upgrades later on? That a lot for something that may or may not end up being useful. Granted memory and storage is so crappy it's probably a moot point.
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With massively grown cost of RAM and SDD, the maths is just more complex. Say $200 for CPU and $300 for RAM and SSD, $500 might have been a good purchase. Now you might have to pay $200 + $900 for the same computer, but a $500 CPU and $600 for RAM and SSD might be a better purchase. Spend more on the cheap bits and less on the expensive bits.
Or you might go for a SSD that is slower but a lot cheaper and get a better total result.
Or you might go for a SSD that is slower but a lot cheaper and get a better total result.
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Not shovelling coal. Licking coal with his tongue to make it clean.
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Oh yeah, in this comparison it's not a reason to buy a worse CPU for more. AMD is going to have to counter here, likely with new CPUs and a lower cost. Or just disgusting price cuts on their end, which they might be able to do considering they were able to ask just about anything they wanted because Intel didn't have an answer for what they were putting out.
At this rate I'm going to be looking at AM6 for my next upgrade. Hopefully shit pops and consumers are allowed to buy RAM by then. I'm sure this clusterfuck is going to last late enough into AM5's life cycle that it'll be worth waiting. We'll see.
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Reading articles from the past does not make one a time traveler unfortunately. Though in a way I guess it does?
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Yeah. I missed out on a AM4 x3D part but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up skipping AM5 entirely. It was already leaning that way but unless the bubble pops fast and hard I can't see myself upgrading for several more years which will likely mean waiting for AM6 or possible looking Intel at that time.
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Maybe you could write an article about good options to upgrade the CPU while keeping last-generation DDR4 RAM. Are there decent options?
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recently (january) bit the bullet and bough a 2nd hand ryzen + 64gb RAM rtx5080, so far a great decision, I've recently sold the extra 32gb so the total damage was manageable. It's pretty silly that 5 year old ryzen CPUs still have higher fps in games than the latest flagship Intel ones
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DDR4 is either AM4 or Intel 12-14th gen. AM4 isn't bad but in most cases probably not offering a huge upgrade over what ever DDR4 system you already have. I guess something like a 5900xt could be decent upgrade over some 4-8 core DDR4 part. Would be a bit different if the 5700x3D was still available and cheap. That would be a hot gaming system build right now without needing a memory upgrade.
Intel's 12th-14th gen isn't bad and can offer a lot of multi-threaded performance if you go for one of the higher end parts. We did a 12th gen i5-12600kf build for my son as an upgrade from his i7-9700f because it could reuse his DDR4 memory from that system. That was August of last year before everything went completely stupid but his mb/cpu upgrade was only ~$200 total so even then 32gb of ddr5 memory would have been a significant increase in cost to the upgrade.
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I"m waiting for the AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D2 next month! I don't have the money to buy one, I'm just waiting on it.
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Since Intel Core Ultra could mean laptop, it'd be nice to indicate in the title or subtitle that this is about desktop CPUs.
Otherwise, looks like a great review
Otherwise, looks like a great review
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I wonder if that 900MHz overclock to the die-to-die interconnect can be implemented on existing Arrow Lake CPUs or if these K Plus CPUs have something new to enable the higher interconnect clock.
Seems like the Arrow Lake core was always pretty good, just that being an early generation multi-die product Intel was going through its own teething issues with the interconnect just like Zen1/Zen2 were kinda hobbled by Infinity Fabric.
Seems like the Arrow Lake core was always pretty good, just that being an early generation multi-die product Intel was going through its own teething issues with the interconnect just like Zen1/Zen2 were kinda hobbled by Infinity Fabric.
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That depends on what you're upgrading from. DDR4 is only cheap if you already own it, and the only really worthwhile CPU-only upgrade to someone in that boat is probably bumping up to a 5800X3D or 5700X3D if you can find one. They stopped making them though, so depends on what you can find second hand most likely. There's also the asterisk of whether your board can support the jump. AM4 was around for 1000 series to 5000 series, but not every board got an update for the 5000 series.
For Intel, you're much more limited because they like to change sockets much more frequently. Unless you bought on the low end of the product range and you want to try sourcing a used part from the high end of that same range, you'll be looking for a new-to-you used CPU and Mobo.
Dark times for PC nerds. I had 32GB DDR4 ECC DIMMs on my watch list on eBay for along time. I put notes on each listing to keep track of the price so if I ever got the itch to upgrade, I'd have some price history. In November of 2024, an SK Hynix 32GB DIMM was $69.99. That same listing is $455 right now. Another was $79, now $310. Weirdly the highest priced listing that I saved then was $116 and it's only up to $170. Maybe I should buy it all out at that price.
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I switched to Mint in October and I don't really see going back to Windows. I booted into Windows to update my guitar multifx in December, and again last weekend (three months later) to get some settings for audio plugins that didn't come over to my Linux install of my DAW (Reaper) and to keep Windows updated jic. I had to buy a new audio interface for Reaper. For anyone considering it, take stock of what programs you need and enjoy and see if there are viable options for Linux. I'd compare the transition process to maybe going from Windows 11 to Windows 7 - stuff is moved, looks different, missing a few features, but generally works better. I realize it's not an option for all, but it IS an option for many, hence my proselytization.
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Look, I am a giant nerd.
I have Linux Mint in several computers. I like it. Linux is NOWHERE close to ready for general use for non nerds. Just installing patches is often a baffling process, let alone installing stuff.
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Who's even building a PC now? I want one, and I could afford the inflated ram prices, but I have too much self respect to bend over and take it up the ass on behalf of the AI industry that's busily ruining the whole world.
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I think they were also a little scared of a gen 13/14 repeat as I believe the issues there are related to the ring bus speed. I believe it's 2.1ghz to 3ghz for that interconnect so it's a pretty substantial increase. It's a little unclear how new these K Plus cpus really are. I've seen some clear statements from Intel that for things like iBOT the K Plus cpus have features that are needed and not supported on the regular arrow lake cpus that make it sound like this is a new rev of the chip with actually different chips not just a complete binning exercise but I haven't seen a clear and definite statement of that.
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So Intel is now AMD, focusing on affordable performant options, and AMD is now Intel trying to convince us we should be spending $600+ on a CPU to play games. The world really needs both of these knuckle-heads to be viable, or all we'd have is $600+ CPU's.
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Anton Longshot
Ars Praetorian
I just checked RAM pricing and the cheapest DDR5 would set me back a bit over 1200 bucks for 128GB (which IMO is the required amount for a new box that must last).
I don't know that I would pay that even if I could spare the money; it just doesn't sit right with me.
I don't know that I would pay that even if I could spare the money; it just doesn't sit right with me.
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At this point the reasonable thing to do would be to buy a 16 or 32gb kit hoping that you'll be able to upgrade to a larger kit down the line once prices return to something resembling sane. Even if you end up completely replacing your previous kit a year, 2 or 3 down the line it should still end up being cheaper overall.
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People in here are nerds. Look where you are.
Bazzite is hard to fuck up. It's an immutable OS set up for gaming out of the box. If someone is comfortable installing Windows, they can install Bazzite.
For most users, there is no "installing patches" and installing software is even easier than Windows. For the kinds of shit normal users use a computer, they can get what they need from whatever graphical frontend for their package manager that comes with their distro. If they can figure out macOS, they could use Bazzite.
Gamers are actually a harder niche to satisfy than your typical user since some publishers are user-hostile. If you want to play the latest Call of Duty, you have to use Windows and sacrifice your security and privacy at the kernel-alter of Activision. Even if I used Windows, I wouldn't be ok with that.
Thankfully, with all the effort Vavle has done to seemlessly integrate Proton with Steam, it's stupid simple for games that don't treat their customers like criminals. Look at the Steam Deck. Do you think that was only purchased by Linux nerds? I can tell you it wasn't because both of my under-12 nephews have one, two of my not-Linux-nerd friends have one, my not-Linux-nerd wife has one, and my one friend who does know his way around Linux hasn't done anything particularly nerd-worthy with his. I, a full-time Linux user and software developer who works inside Linux every day, haven't even done anything weird with mine. Sure, I've switched to KDE a few times so I can access a file browser and install some other launchers, but that doesn't take being a nerd. KDE looks Windows-ish and everything is delivered on Steam OS via Flathub so it's easier than Windows. You find the thing you want to install, click install, done.
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Dunno if your case use facilitates it, but throw Linux into the machines you have and you'll see a massive increase in performance overall. I imagine you've probably already thought of, and dismissed, that idea, though. Some ecosystems are too tied to Redmond for that to be a simple enough transition to take.
And this, among other reasons, is why I don't do Intel products anymore. Too expensive, too exclusive, too locked in to a short path. Also, while I have SOME case use for what the Core Ultra does, there's not enough of it for me to need to switch to Intel for the performance boost.
The Ugly says it all: "It’s a bad time to build a new system or upgrade your board."
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128GB is ludicrous for most use cases. My server has half that, and half of that is used for zfs cache, and it's fine. My desktop has a quarter of that and for gaming, you never come close to using that much.
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I'm a giant nerd.
I've set up a dozen regular users with Linux Mint (Cinnamon, specifically) so they don't have to be fucked over by Redmond's Win11 data raping. These are average, non-nerd "general use" people.
With Linux updating is OPTIONAL and can be turned off, and then performed when there's someone to hold their hand, if necessary. If you live the "I must update all the time" because fucking Windows did that, it's generally not necessary. Just pick the security updates. Skip the rest. For the average user, it really makes very little difference.
Toss Rust Desk onto it for some seamless tech support here and there for less than competent users, and it's just the same as dealing with less than competent users on Windows.
That's a non-nerd thing. Yes, it takes some hand-holding at times, especially for those who weren't into nuts and bolts tinkering. But IMHO, based on 20 years as IT support and working with "general use" as well as business people, Linux perfectly ready for use now. I spent 25 years WAITING for the moment I could say that, so it's not like it's a new discovery. I went to Linux full time three years ago, but tinkered with it since 1998.
If people remember it's NOT Windows, they do a lot better dealing with it.
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Why would you buy one of these when AMD CPUs exist?
Their socket will only be supported for 2 years max, because it's Intel.
There is a significant chance that they are buggy in some catastrophic way.
Intel has facilities in Israel, a genocidal regime.
Why would you?
Their socket will only be supported for 2 years max, because it's Intel.
There is a significant chance that they are buggy in some catastrophic way.
Intel has facilities in Israel, a genocidal regime.
Why would you?
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Because they're cheaper and they've finally caught up and in some cases passed AMD in performance.
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Anton Longshot
Ars Praetorian
Of course it's fine and so is my current 9900KF w/ 32GB - right NOW.
But I've had computers last 8+ years and if that happens again I want to be sure I can #1 still run all the new stuff comfortably for as long as the box lasts and #2 it will allow me to do things I now for one reason or another consider "crazy stuff".
All that's also known as "future-proofing".
As there's a good chance I'll be stuck with the 9900 I'm already sorry I didn't pick 64 or even 128 when I built it.
Mind you, personal preference.
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Thankfully memory is still socketed on desktop platforms so we have the option of changing our mind if our needs change in a literal decade from now.
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